I'm a complete moron: I was doing color sensitive work and forgot to turn f.lux off. Spent about 10m wondering why everything looked orange-y.

@psr did you get the e-mail for the Haskell Center beta sign-up from FPComplete? You signed up there I presume doing the SoH, if not go sign-up for the beta while you can (why not?) it's apparently some industrial grade ide/build/deployment platform integrated together to automatically deploy to their cloud or some such

@MichaelT pffft the vast majority of words stay camelCase in C# too, it's just publics that get PascalCase (which are a minority of members unless you're doing it wrong)

@YannisRizos I am so glad the only UI work I do will ever more only be internal instrumentation and management tools where I genuinely don't have to care how the pretty the UX is

...because I have no idea how to identify good or proper color/font/layout schemes at all.

@MichaelT In windows, I use notepad all the damn time for things. But for nix I would handily take vi over nano every day, I hate that damn thing. (Though emacs rules vi drools)

Don't knock notepad though...

@psr fpcomplete.com/blog/2013/06/beta-sign-up

I know you don't have free time for this stuff, but worth signing up just in case it turns out to be handy to have at some point in the future

@WorldEngineer and @thorstenmüller you two may be interested as well in signing up for the beta

@JimmyHoffa - Thanks. I signed up.

I have high hopes for FPComplete, they have staffed some awesome Haskellers as well as having the community at large available to them in general, and their entire purpose and goal is to get Haskell into industry. They are moving at Haskell speed no less; they've been up and going a couple months and already have a beta of an enterprise development and hosting platform ready, which is a great first step to get industry acceptance

They stood up the first full-feature online REPL too with their little widgets; the other REPLs are your typical expression parser/executors, they stood up a proper sandboxed REPL that gives you full access to define types and write and execute complete haskell programs including IO facilities. The fact that they did that just as an aside so they could have a little teaching widget as if it was some easy task...

@WorldEngineer Now I get to write documentation for what I've been working on for the past ~2 months, I hope you like writing, and not just coding. In industry good writing skills are not only valuable, but oft enough used it's worth learning to enjoy writing (I somewhat suspect you probably do though). Interestingly spelling is commonly atrocious among engineers, but grammar and structure of their writing is usually quite good (if occasionally contrived). Big surprise.

@MichaelT I started noticing. Ironically I'm doing just that with XKCD; having read most of them before finding m.xkcd gives the tooltips for my phone, I had to start over.

@MichaelT Do you understand any of the void nonsense koans at the beginning? I can gladly say I've understood pretty much all of the koans except those. Those were just nonsense poems.

@MichaelT Surprise surprise, someone who finds i.e. i.e. a joke worth making likes writing

@MichaelT Be careful with things like that, you never know when HR might ask you to come back as a veep

Sweet, SoH got some of Simon Peyton Jones writing in their tutorial form

@psr just off-hand, your first name isn't Simon is it? Let he who might be named Simon among P.SE be certain to learn Haskell, historically it's been the right move for ones with that name.

@WorldEngineer Where have you been searching? Seattle/Redmond/Portland/Eugene? Thought you said you wanted to work in pacific northwest right?

@MichaelT chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/9983774#9983774

@WorldEngineer That's effing awesome.

@WorldEngineer Yeah, looking for work sucks. I can understand cost of living is a crappy thing to have to wrestle about with, but in your position don't forget it's the easiest it will ever be; after you have built a life and have actual responsibilities it becomes much more painful to try and balance. That said think of the benefits of looking in shitty cost of living markets: working for places like MS or companies in silicon valley you will gain skills VASTLY greater than those Iowa has

@MichaelT was wise in this way. The time he spent in silicon valley made him above and beyond the norm of engineers in Wisconsin, so when he no longer wanted to deal with the competition of silicon valley, it was no difficult task for him to be found more than capable back home

Yeah; I hear that, but in your junior years you won't make enough for that outside of crap markets, you want to own a house on the salary you'll have within the next ~4-5 years? Start looking in Alabama.

however you spend 3 years in a competitive market becoming much more competent than the folks in Iowa, you get to go back to Iowa and make a salary double what you'd have if you spent those 3 years in Iowa learning only what they know.

@MichaelT Completely agree, and every one of those you listed is not a place you could afford a house particularly on the salary made for the first ~4 years

@GlenH7 My opinions may be colored by my experiences, but those were that the smaller the market the less competitive it was and thus the lower quality the average engineer, i.e. I've learned a great deal in Denver, I taught a great deal in Pittsburgh, now I'm back to Denver and again find myself learning from my colleagues instead of the other way around. @MichaelT may have not dissimilar experiences as well, though I could be off the mark on the commonness of my generalization.

or rather, perhaps a better description is the desirability of the market rather than size

@WorldEngineer I think it's a question of "How desperate are the company's to hire anyone, no matter how brain dead"

find a place where company's fight tooth and nail to get anyone and you'll have communications degreed folks for colleagues.

@MichaelT How would you compare the average engineer in Eau Claire with that in Silicon Valley? (Ridiculous as the place is) Do you think if you staid in Wisconsin instead of going to Silicon Valley when you did, you would still be as knowledgeable as you are as a result of such experience?

Granted you have a unique experience having been there through the dotcom bubble, things may not always be as brimming with valuable experience as it was at that time.

@MichaelT true. The brightest are aggressively recruited away which is one of the reasons they're found bundled together in the locations those recruitment operations are active

@WorldEngineer well chin-up and just keep at it. Looking sucks.

I don't know anyone who enjoys it