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user55340
12:00 AM
Its one of those super tools/libs for graphics.
 
Reut Sharabani
Reut Sharabani
ok, good to know... I guess I have a way to go in python
but right now I'll head to bed
good night folks
 
user55340
imagemagick is many languages.
 
Reut Sharabani
Reut Sharabani
I don't know, never ran into it
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
Someone drowns in a bath tub, we'll just lump that in with the fisherman who have crates of fish accidentally fall on them
 
user55340
 
Reut Sharabani
Reut Sharabani
12:01 AM
on the other hand what do I know, I'm only starting my way int he industry
in the*
 
user55340
You've got...
 
user55340
>
The functionality of ImageMagick is typically utilized from the command line or you can use the features from programs written in your favorite language. Choose from these interfaces: G2F (Ada), MagickCore (C), MagickWand (C), ChMagick (Ch), ImageMagickObject (COM+), Magick++ (C++), JMagick (Java), L-Magick (Lisp), Lua, NMagick (Neko/haXe), Magick.NET (.NET), PascalMagick (Pascal), PerlMagick (Perl), MagickWand for PHP (PHP), IMagick (PHP), PythonMagick (Python), RMagick (Ruby), or TclMagick (Tcl/TK). With a language interface, use ImageMagick to modify or create images dynamically and au…
 
Reut Sharabani
Reut Sharabani
yeah, I'm leaving the tab open for tomorrow morning
 
user55340
Those are all the bindings for it from other languages.
 
Reut Sharabani
Reut Sharabani
too tired now
 
user55340
12:02 AM
ada
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
Is this really what a Main function in Python looks like?
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
The vast majority of minnesota snowmobile accidents occur between 1pm and 4pm, and a fair portion occur on normal streets. Minnosota is dangerous, you're liable to be run into by an errant snowmobile just in the middle of the day driving down the road..
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
if __name__ == "__main__":
    firstFunctionEver()
Hoooly crap, that's ugly.
 
user55340
@RobertHarvey Welcome to Python.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@MichaelT At least it's not welcome to Minnesota!
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
12:06 AM
I guess public static void main(args) is not much better.
 
user55340
Its a matter of where you define the entry point... you need somewhere to start.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@RobertHarvey I prefer main =
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
Haskell, I presume?
 
user55340
363
Q: What does `if __name__ == "__main__":` do?

DevotedWhat does the if __name__ == "__main__": do? # Threading example import time, thread def myfunction(string, sleeptime, lock, *args): while 1: lock.acquire() time.sleep(sleeptime) lock.release() time.sleep(sleeptime) if __name__ == "__main__": lock = threa...

python idioms python-import
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
> main = putStrLn "Hello, World!"
 
user55340
12:07 AM
Looks like its a guard clause of a sort to determine if the code is being run as a script, or as part of a library.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
> An adult male had been seen riding his ATV on Rice Lake and was reported as missing on 1/27/12.
That's not fair, he could still be just riding along happily right now
including him in those statistics doesn't seem right at all, perhaps it was a ninja on an ATV
 
user55340
You're just trying to convince yourself never to set foot in Minnesota.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@MichaelT It's pretty convincing isn't it! Would you want to set foot in a state where people shoot eachother and call it a "hunting accident" then drive away on their snowmobiles down the main street ramming into cars?
Doesn't sound like a pleasant place at all to me.
 
user55340
Do I need to start looking up the data for Colorado? (Btw, CO is one of those states where you can ship beer and wine into...)
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@MichaelT I know, I actually interviewed for a place that does alcohol shipping logistics and regulation compliance automation
 
user55340
12:13 AM
 
user55340
Booze friendly states.
 
user55340
(so you can ship to a residence)
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@MichaelT that's a severe understatement.
 
user55340
Admit it, you want that ceaderburg wine.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
> This year, nearly 50,000 people gathered in Denver for the Great American Beer Festival, the largest commercial beer competition in the world.
 
user55340
12:18 AM
@JimmyHoffa Wisconsin has the world's largest sickpack...
 
user55340
 
user55340
>
From an attentive web-surfing tour guide from the brewery: "...if you want another statistic about the six pack... Starting the day you were born, if you were to drink a 12oz. cup of beer, on the hour, every hour, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, you'd have to live to be about 120 years old to finish just one of the World's Largest Six Pack cans. ...as a tour guide at the brewery, I take pride in the accuracy and beauty of the City Brewery. After all... "We don't aim to make the most beer, only the best.""
 
user41796
12:53 AM
@MichaelT - The F# question got reopened, but it needed some help from a mod to get moving along.
 
user55340
@GlenH7 Not sure how much more moving it needs / can get. It got an answer, +2 votes, and was accepted.
 
user41796
Yeah, I think he was a little quick to accept, but whatever
 
user41796
I edited after looking at it in the reopen history and saw there were 3 "leave closed" votes against. And at gnat's prompting, which is what made me look at the history.
 
user55340
It also got auto-tweeted 8h ago.
 
user41796
If I were cool, I would actually know of the Programmer's twitter feed.
 
user55340
12:57 AM
@GlenH7 There is a knee jerk (and I'll admit to it too) reaction of asking for anything off site, no matter how specific. Its even harder in the reopen queue "this was closed for a reason of asking for off site, well, it still is, leave closed"
 
user55340
 
user55340
Can you answer this? How do I approach a serious F# project without C# knowledge? http://programmers.stackexchange.com/q/220937?atw=1 #wpf
Tweeted by StackProgrammer on December 11, 2013 at 4:32 PM
 
user41796
Oh, then I'm cool. 'Cause apparently I'm stuck in history
 
user41796
yeah, we're not really clear on tolerating canonical or highly specialized book requests. Which, per meta, are supposed to be allowed.
 
user55340
The thing is, there are so few of those that are good, it takes a careful eye to catch them.
 
user41796
12:59 AM
Agreed.
 
Ampt
Ampt
1:38 AM
@MichaelT hmmmmmmmm. I'm not sure
I didn't even know you could use static blocks before haha
also, what happened to the +1 comment query?
@MichaelT is the second a form of an anonymous inner class?
 
 
1 hour later…
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
3:03 AM
@Ampt static blocks?
O
 
Ampt
Ampt
static... circles?
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
Well here's your .NET interview trivia for the day then since we're playing that game: what is the accessibility of a protected internal class member?
 
Ampt
Ampt
inner class?
like nested?
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@Ampt Nope. You know what internal and protected are independently right? So what are they together?
if not whatever, look it up. It's a classic interview trivia question. Actually .NET interviews very commonly use a question of "do you know all the accessors and their meanings" as trivia
stuff like "What's the difference between a const and static readonly"
 
user55340
3:18 AM
@Ampt The {{ }} is an instance initializer vs a static initializer. docs.oracle.com/javase/specs/jls/se5.0/html/classes.html#8.6
 
user55340
The other braces create an anon inner class, the inner brace creates an instance initializer block that is run when the inner class is instantiated.
 
user55340
These instance initializers run before the constructors.
 
user55340
@JimmyHoffa have to see how this flag goes. "Bleh. Just... yea, just make it go away."
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@MichaelT Where?
 
Ampt
Ampt
@JimmyHoffa .net is for FOOLS YO
 
user55340
3:21 AM
1
Q: Why do developers and programmers tend to like cats?

sguptaetI've been noticing that a lot of developers own cats and they like to talk about them. Whereas, I don't know any who do the same with dogs. Why is this?

personality
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@Ampt I know your heart doesn't truly beat for Java, you can't fool me.
 
Ampt
Ampt
@MichaelT forget that. Dogs 4 lyfe
 
user55340
@JimmyHoffa He really wants to be a haskell programmer, but can't say monad without swapping the first consonant with a 'g' and laughing.
 
Ampt
Ampt
im looking at chicago apts and not being pet friendly instantly means they're out
@MichaelT it's more of a giggle than a laugh but yeah, pretty much
 
user55340
You're more likely to find a cat friendly apartment than a dog friendly one.
 
Ampt
Ampt
3:22 AM
actually I'm having a lot of luck
im out in the suburbs (palatine to be specific)
figured I could just commute via train
 
user55340
So you're Chicagoing it?
 
Ampt
Ampt
well, just comparing housing
but I like that combination of Chicago and going
a few of these places are actually looking familiar because I looked at them when searching with my girlfriend haha
 
user55340
@gnat vance.com/steve/perforce/Branching_Strategies.html is 404. I sent an email (and updated my answers that link to it to webarchive)
 
Ampt
Ampt
I feel like My current job in waukesha is the safe choice which is why I'm really considering it. In terms of long term career movement it's going to be better in chicago I believe
 
user55340
I'm personally of the opinion that consulting is a great first job out of college because you get thrown in to real projects without much of a safety net (the company is the net) - thats a good thing and get to find out what you like and don't like.
 
user55340
3:36 AM
@gnat and I got a prompt email back!
 
user55340
> I've redone my site, overdue but largely motivated by the publication of my book last week. I promise to put the paper back soon. I'll put it in the same place.

It's good to know it's still of value to people. Thanks for the feedback!
 
user55340
... Now I'm gonna have to go buy a book.
 
user55340
... its not on Amazon yet, and you get some rather odd things when searching for his name.
 
user55340
 
user55340
Before some JERK up votes me.
 
Ampt
Ampt
3:42 AM
@MichaelT yeah I just feel like at my current gig I wouldn't have the chance to fail really
and who would do that?
 
user55340
Dunno... could be anyone. I just answered a question.
 
user55340
@Ampt If you had the option, I'd say go to SF, Seattle, Denver, Austin, or NY too. See the world.
 
user55340
(oh, got an email from a former Netapp coworker last night... he's since left Netapp and now works for my former Netapp manager as a consultant... small world)
 
user55340
incidentally, he was a contract to perm employee when he joined Netapp. There's a half a thought of trying to do a weekend in Vegas in the next calendar year with the old team.
 
Ampt
Ampt
hahaha thats awesome
 
user55340
3:48 AM
Oh, @Ampt point I want to make about that annotation based Factory... thats a case of "yes, the factory pattern fits naturally here". It just makes sense to the point of one ned not call it a pattern. The "pattern looking for a solution" types... like that last question to show up. sigh
 
Ampt
Ampt
i can't even focus on my school work at the moment
so I haven't really messed with that code too much
but I should cuz its due friday at 10
 
 
3 hours later…
gnat
gnat
6:49 AM
@MichaelT aaaand... it's back online (quite a relief). I updated your answer to refer to both original and webarchive copy, plus added a mini-quote as an additional protection against link-rot. :)
 
 
5 hours later…
gnat
gnat
11:33 AM
some MSO posts are just priceless...
-17
Q: How can Stack Overflow ban my right to ask questions?

user1895055If Stack Overflow cannot tolerate that I don't know one thing, then they should shut down their services. This is wrong and violation of freedom of expression, freedom to ask. The only criteria could be to see whether I really know it or not or at best there is a duplicate question. But this is...

discussion asking-questions post-ban
 
 
1 hour later…
gnat
gnat
12:37 PM
Give the advice to @Yannis.... He is running on evil spirits. Yes i a cannot post questions. I needed to ask few thins but when i tried they told you cannot post question. I am stuck :( — user1895055 2 mins ago
evil spirits oh my. Funniest name I ever heard for a routine tequila
 
 
1 hour later…
thorsten müller
thorsten müller
1:43 PM
@gnat I wonder why he doesn't just create a new account. It's not like he has any rep to lose or something.
 
Ampt
Ampt
1:53 PM
@gnat idk, tequila is a spirit and it makes me do evil things so.... I can't find a flaw in his logic
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
2:30 PM
As good of a book as it is, I hate the title of Balancing Agility and Discipline.
 
gnat
gnat
@thorstenmüller yup I also couldn't figure what's the problem. Though, a guy who feels SE is like their paid consulting/support service, may miss a thing or two along the way
 
Ampt
Ampt
@gnat we're not paid? I thought the check was in the mail!
wtf
 
gnat
gnat
3:00 PM
@Ampt only Yannis is "paid" - they feed him tequila for free, to maintain evil spirit. They also tried a less costly option, with Haskell, but it turned out too strong...
2
19 hours ago, by Yannis Rizos
@psr I tried Haskell once. You might remember it, it was the day ~500 ProgSE questions went the way of the dodo (had to channel my rage somewhere...)
 
Ampt
Ampt
I should counter my offers and ask for a tequila allowance
 
user55340
@gnat I got the email last night that he had put it back online at ~10:30 pm local time, but I was in the process of falling asleep and was going to update it tomorrow (today). Thank you for the edits.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
Putting questions about ethics on a self-evaluation is stupid. The ethical people are going to rate themselves highly because they are ethical. The unethical people are going to rate themselves highly because that's what they do. So everyone rates themselves highly.
 
user55340
@ThomasOwens at my previous employer they had a... well, we called it the 'idiot test'. Realizing the retail nature of the company... there where questions like "Its ok to take items if the value is less than $25" or "Its ok to get into a fight if you both are off the clock" or "Its ok to have a beer at lunch before your shift".
 
user55340
Apparently, one of the new hire candidates at the company failed that test. We still wonder how.
 
user41796
3:15 PM
@MichaelT It's not okay to have a beer with lunch before your shift?!?!
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
@GlenH7 There are only a handful of jobs where having a beer at lunch is not OK. Unfortunately, I'm in one of them.
 
user55340
@GlenH7 You've got a few types of jobs in the retail side. Consider your impression of a cashier who has beer smell on his or her breath... or the implications of operating a forklift, or stacking drywall on a flatbed...
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
There are ways to not smell like beer, though. Smelling like alcohol is bad.
 
user41796
@ThomasOwens Current and previous employer are like that too. So much for trusting employees to take personal responsibility.
 
user55340
Every job in the retail side is either working with a customer or working with heavy things moving around.
 
user55340
3:18 PM
(would you want to buy a truss for your house from someone who had a beer just before?)
 
user41796
@MichaelT When it's customer facing, there are definitely different rules to consider. I chose to ignore that aspect when I made my earlier comment. ;-)
 
Ampt
Ampt
how else am I supposed to get through the morning commute?
 
user41796
@Ampt that's what McGilicuddy's was invented for.
 
Ampt
Ampt
(In all seriousness I don't drink and drive or drink before work)
((although I wish I could some days))
 
user55340
When I was at Cisco, we took the lightrail to downtown San Jose for lunch once a week. Light rail means that you aren't driving.
 
user41796
3:22 PM
My laugh of the day. Someone downvoted my answer on the coding style question. No comment, so no idea what the worry was.
 
Ampt
Ampt
that's one of the perks of the chicago job: trains there and back
@GlenH7 I just don't like you :P
 
user41796
@Ampt I'm good with that. As an aside, the parent company of your Chicago offer is known for hard drinking while on client engagements. "Work hard, play harder" was their motto.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
@GlenH7 What company is that?
 
user55340
Depending on client company, sometimes going out for drinks is required
 
Ampt
Ampt
@ThomasOwens Accenture
 
user55340
3:25 PM
@Ampt remember to get and hang this poster in your workspace: despair.com/consulting.html
 
user55340
(also, note who the poster is perfect for)
 
user41796
Pulled those previous ones as they reflected my opinion only.
 
Ampt
Ampt
@GlenH7 as a room owner can you just delete anything?
 
user41796
nope, only my posts. Mods can nuke anything though
 
user41796
room owners can pin, see deleted posts, and clear stars. That's about the limit of our magic powers.
 
Ampt
Ampt
3:27 PM
MAGIC
 
user55340
Heh... here's another one for you - despair.com/collaboration.html
 
user55340
> When a motivated group of people join together, they can turn problems into opportunities. Especially drinking problems.
 
Ampt
Ampt
@MichaelT so you're saying I shouldn't take the consulting job?
 
user55340
heh nope. I'm just saying make sure you have the proper attitude.
 
user55340
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
3:30 PM
@MichaelT "A small fish that can EAT THE BIG FISH FROM THE INSIDE OUT!"
 
user41796
@Ampt From my experience, having time in as a consultant has opened a number of doors for me that may not have been open otherwise. So it's certainly worth considering from that point of view alone.
 
Ampt
Ampt
I'm just afraid that I would do the chicago job so that I can eventually get all the freedoms and liberties my current job already gives me...
kinda like the fisherman and the MBA story
 
user41796
@Ampt That's where you have to know yourself.
 
Ampt
Ampt
@GlenH7 that's a tall order for someone who has only ever known the academic life. I didn't exactly take Introspection 101 unfortunately. I could probably set up an n-dimensional matrix and find the maximum or take the complementary problem and find the minimum, because that's helpful.
 
enderland
enderland
so I've got a friend who basically is bored and wants to learn programming. I don't want to babysit him, is codeacademy the best "go to here" site?
 
Ampt
Ampt
3:44 PM
@enderland from all the rave reviews I've heard, yes
 
user41796
@Ampt If you do, I'd vote for you to run a monte carlo simulation. Think of all the parties you'll get to virtually enjoy
 
enderland
enderland
@Ampt oooh I can help you with this, I can teach the grad classes in Introspection
 
user41796
@enderland ding! Absolutely
 
user55340
There are multiple parts to it to consider. There's the "I worked for a big name at huge clients and can bring back this experience and knowledge to my ultimate destination". There's also the "I lived in {big city}, so now I really appreciate the small town."
 
Ampt
Ampt
never used it personally but you can't google "Learn to code" without diving into a pile of recommendations for it. either they are good at marketing or they are good at teaching to code
 
enderland
enderland
3:45 PM
 
user41796
@enderland - I have an account there that I'm using to learn javascript. It's a bit of a plod, but it's oriented towards complete newbies.
 
enderland
enderland
yeah I briefly played with it. I should screw around a bit more with stuff like that
 
user55340
Charting my own history, I lived just outside of San Francisco, worked at SGI, Cisco, Sun, Netapp... that experience of both living in California along with working at such large places... Now I'm quite happy living in a city with a population of ~70k and being the biggest population center for ~100 miles around, at a company where everyone can fit in the large conference room for pizza.
 
user41796
I had looked at them when they first started, and I recently went back. They have really expanded their offerings.
 
enderland
enderland
hard when I'm basically gone between work/commute for 60 hours a week... :(
 
Ampt
Ampt
3:47 PM
@MichaelT my home town is ~1600 haha
all I've done is small small small
 
user55340
My co-workers are often curious about "You lived in California? How was it?" or "Wow, you worked at Sun in the Java 1.2 days?!"
 
user41796
@Ampt downtown milwaukee isn't that small.
 
Ampt
Ampt
@GlenH7 when you go to a college of <2600 people it feels small lol
 
user41796
I'm not saying MKE is huge, but it's still a city with all of the fun and not-so-fun aspects
 
user41796
Where I was at, it is bigger than that, that's true. But you're still in the heart of the city.
 
user55340
3:49 PM
@Ampt I grew up ~20 minute drive from Madison, in the country. The township didn't even have an incorporated town in it... but the thing is its sometimes important to try the extreme to be able to appreciate the other end of the spectrum.
 
enderland
enderland
@MichaelT I worked in a town of 600 for 8 months once, I appreciate my current 60k or so town SO MUCH MORE now hahahahahahahah
 
Ampt
Ampt
gah, I've been thinking about it too much. I just need to push it out of my mind for a while.
@enderland you knew everyone by name right? haha
 
enderland
enderland
@Ampt lol no, but probably 2/3 of them did work for the same company as me
 
gnat
gnat
@GlenH7 looks like revenge or tactical DV: per my reading your answer looks okay (will upvote for telltale-sign later, I'm outta votes now). Side note I'd rephrase "might shift my answer" to something like "might shift above reasoning"
 
user55340
Doing this right out of college is the best time to take those opportunities. As live goes on, it gets harder and harder to make the big changes (you've got a house, a wife, kids) that move you from one side of the continent to the other.
 
enderland
enderland
3:51 PM
@MichaelT alternatively just live the bachelors life 4EVA
except @Ampt has a sig other already. TOO LATE
 
Ampt
Ampt
well both are almost exactly the same distance from my home town so I'm not exactly dashing across the globe haha
@enderland Hahahaha I'm doomed aren't I?
 
user55340
Only a handful of my coworkers are in the position to even consider switching jobs that would take them to Minneapolis or Madison. Having a spouse who has a job, and a house, and kids in the school - these are often too big of a change to be able to make later in life.
 
enderland
enderland
@MichaelT Yeah. Most of my coworkers are similarly trapped and I live in a metro area
 
user55340
A job in Chicago takes you to the big city and thats a very different type of life. You don't know if you'll like it until you try it for awhile. The great thing about consulting is the names that go down on the resume and that you get to try them all.
 
Ampt
Ampt
I think in terms of career opportunities, the chicago job is definitely the spring board
 
enderland
enderland
3:55 PM
also @Ampt something to think about too, ultimately what will matter more is how you treat the job and what you do with your life in the next few years. This matters so much more than which job you take - you have the chance to make either good or either bad
it's a big decision yes but how you treat the job and move forward with your life is a much bigger part of that decision
I read a great article on this recently, I'll IM the coworker who sent it to me
 
Ampt
Ampt
yes please
 
enderland
enderland
we tend to overvalue the "decision" and not realize the fact of the matter is, how we deal with the results of the decision is SO MUCH MORE IMPORTANT than the "what ifs?"
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
just walked by a php guy's desk on my way out of the break room and hear him say to a QA fellow "oh yeah we need to prefix that with an imagepath variable, I forgot sorry" -- and string concatenation to generate HTML is somehow just fine
 
Ampt
Ampt
@JimmyHoffa dude I turn my code into strings and then concatenate them to form expressions. Is that not what I'm supposed to do?
 
user41796
@gnat - and that's why I laughed. Hard to believe I have finally made it to the big leagues and justify revenge down voting. :-D
 
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