The Whiteboard - 2012-12-31

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12:31 AM

Programmers Stack Exchange Blog: The Ultimate IT Professional’s Guide to Conducting and Online Job Search (Part II – Marketing)

Morons on December 31, 2012

Note: This is Part II of a three part series; it is recommended that you read Part I – The Basics first.

A quick Re-cap I previously defined the Job search Marketing phase as “Finding and Advertising yourself to potential employers”. This is everything you do up until you get a person on the phone discussing a specific opportunity. Also previously stated is that the Marketing process looks something like this:

Marketing

Look for Markets - i.e. Research where (what roles\position\industries) that there are good opportunities for your skill set and will position you for growth …

12:47 AM

Adrian Peterson was 9 yards away from breaking the all time NFL single season rushing record...

9 hours later…

9:40 AM

@Dynamic Up vs Down votes by hour of day of Question or Answer

4 hours later…

user41796

2:05 PM

@JayBazuzi - the 2nd part of your question is unanswerable by P.SE, sorry. That having been said, 4 - 5 years is a long time for something to exist and not receive a takedown request. Copyright / trademark / patent must all be enforced without discrimination. You can rely upon the precedent of that fork existing for so long as basis for using in your project. Worst case is that you'd be liable for a cease & desist at some point later in life but you wouldn't be liable for damages.

user41796

@JayBazuzi - keep documentation of your attempts to contact the Pash team and the person who forked to MIT. IF you get drug into court that documentation will demonstrate due diligence. Enforcing any of the restrictions requires some serious cash reserves + actual damages to litigate over. Based upon what you've said, I wouldn't worry too much about using the forked MIT version.

user41796

RE: Goma and whether or not he's a teen. Not all horribly immature behavior should be ascribed to teenagers. Here's a link to the example of the reddit troll 'jailbait'. Still.... Goma could find much better things to do.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/18/us/internet-troll-apology/index.html

3:01 PM

@GlenH7: Thanks, that is helpful.

1 hour later…

4:06 PM

I just got 60 points on an old answer today. Weird.

and for some reason the notices button in the top left is broken for me right now. annoying because I have notices heh

5 hours later…

user20683

9:09 PM

@mlakhara hm?

@JimG. Can you look at this question now. I edited this and was hoping for a reopening.

user20683

@JimmyHoffa often those are caused by new answers to the question/edits

user20683

@mlakhara which question?

1

Q: PHP and Test Driven Development -- Implementation Strategies

Recently I have been reading online about eXtreme programming and agile practices. I wish to adapt them. However most of my code is all in PHP which is the normal CRUD type web applications. Moreover I user web framework like CodeIgniter, which also abstracts a lot of the core features. To sum u...

php unit-testing tdd continuous-integration extreme-programming

@WorldEngineer there?

Just thought I'd pop in to wish everyone a Happy New Year & I'll try to be in here more often in 2013.

user20683

9:19 PM

@mlakhara basically your question is "Can I test with one test on this one thing or do I have to test all the things?"

user20683

@ChrisF Cheers and enjoy a pint if you can.

@WorldEngineer I certainly will

user20683

@ChrisF I rarely drink myself, a combination of poverty and a hilariously low tolerance

@world Yeah and I already have a bit of code int the project I wish to implement TDD in and wanted some advice. Initially I kept the question as to look for general advice but had to go for particular because of the downvotes

@WorldEngineer On the bright side those two attributes kind of work together :)

user20683

9:23 PM

@JimmyHoffa I once drank a stella and a shot of jack. I couldn't see or walk straight afterward

user20683

I also got drunk for the first time over a game of D&D

user20683

it's pretty sad really

@WorldEngineer Just wanted to know if there is some chance of reopening?

user20683

@mlakhara possibly

user20683

there's always a chance

user20683

9:25 PM

sorry, that's a mathematician's answer

@WorldEngineer Ha ha.. So how does reopening work? who can vote for it and how do I know if this has already been reviewed? Because I spend most of my time refreshing the page to see some change

haha

user20683

okay, I think there is a good chance that could be reopened. However, I can't be certain

@WorldEngineer Are you sure you're cut out to be an engineer? My experiences with other engineers tends towards them packing the booze away heh

(You are going for your CS right?)

user20683

@JimmyHoffa my dad didn't drink much either, he was a Sys Admin for 20 years

user20683

9:30 PM

I tend to stick to things you sip

Just saying... how will you ever aspire to the grandeur that is Phil Katz heh

user20683

caffeine

@WorldEngineer Thanks for the answer. @JimmyHoffa Yeah enginneers tend to go for the booz

user20683

transcendental quantities of caffeine

user20683

As far as who can vote, anyone with the power to vote to close can vote to reopen, I forget what level you get that at.

9:31 PM

Oh I just got that

Should I vote to reopen the question?

Now I'm excited!

user20683

if you think it's solid

user20683

I'm looking at it

you're no help

And I'm pretty sure Phil Katz wasn't known for his high Blood Caffeine Content heh

user20683

@JimmyHoffa Alcoholism runs in my family

user20683

while I can handle my booze to a small degree, I rather not push the limits of the monster that might be there

9:35 PM

Ah, best to keep your distance then. My wife's the same, her dad, uncle, and grandpa have all had liver transplants, and her dad killed that one too. She hardly drinks. With luck my boy will have her predilections towards alcohol and not mine :)

..predelections...predatorlections...prediceducation.....something

user20683

@JimmyHoffa predilections, it was right the first time.

user20683

a roommate of mine would drink a kitchen trashbag worth of cans a week

user20683

the fact that he's still alive is a miracle

You know of Phil Katz?

user20683

@JimmyHoffa I looked him up

user20683

9:40 PM

not a good way to go

Nah not really

Apparently a total wiz engineer though

user20683

pancreas anything is incredibly painful

So i guess, what's more important, good engineering, or, you know; you're pancreas. :)

So I've heard. Unfortunately the alcohol probably didn't even numb it with his tolerance heh

user20683

yeah

Fellow I worked with at my last job told a story of an engineer that was hired at his previous company who passed the interviews with colors, and for the first week seemed to be sneaking off for long lunches until the end of his first week when they walked in to find him passed out on the floor in a puddle of urine from the night before. Apparently he was sneaking off to put down a bottle each lunch time and decided to celebrate his new job Thursday night.

...and suddenly it's understandable why some companies take time in their interviews to put people through their paces

user20683

9:45 PM

@JimmyHoffa yeah, my first degree was in the humanities

user20683

Philosophy majors might be able to table many CS guys

haha I always thought bar room philosophers only had their degree in the form of a tab at the bar, you're telling me they hold a real one from a uni too. That somehow makes their oh-so-wiseism's a bit sadder

user20683

@JimmyHoffa I know a good many Phil majors who are or who have tended bar

user20683

some of them went on to pass the bar

user20683

and are now back tending bar

9:48 PM

Yeah, I hear being a lawyer is horrible tough these days

user20683

@JimmyHoffa it's a glut, there are still subfields that do okay I hear

user20683

honestly so much of it is knowing how to leverage soft skills and knowing what you want

user20683

going to grad school to find yourself is in my mind a bad (and expensive) idea

user20683

ugh, Automata or Calc III...

user20683

I'm tempted to just take German History since it would be a walk in the park

user20683

9:51 PM

though in many senses so would Calc III

user20683

and Automata is probably useful in terms of theoretical underpinnings

WTH is automata?

user20683

@JimmyHoffa en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automata_theory

I've heard the term, but only have a vague idea that it somehow relates to AI and otherwise know squat

user20683

it's what Computer Science is actually about

user20683

9:53 PM

it actually relates mostly to compilers and what can be computed

ah

user20683

it's basically "we have an abstract machine with these particular rules", "What can be compute with it and how fast?"

I think I'd take calc III

user20683

that seems to be the consensus of the non-grad students

user20683

the grad students say take automata

user20683

9:55 PM

my humanities friends say take the history

I'm basing my opinion mostly on the wikipedia page starting it's explanation with an FSM

and I freeging hate FSMs

user20683

because math is made of magic and scary

FSMs are the most overly-used dangerous structures I see engineers use because they're simpler than more appropriate means

Thinking of the problems you want to solve in terms of the machine you're going to solve it with is wrong-headed in my opinion, and completely what people are doing when they try implementing an FSM

Granted, I've never taken Calculus of any sort or any CS classes, so my opinion's worth the toiler paper I frequently write it on and leave in stalls for others to find... I mean, I don't do that. Nope.

user20683

@JimmyHoffa I've taken the basic set of single variable calculus, discrete math, mathematical models for CS (selections of linear algebra, vector calculus, and stats), and physics which involved a fair amount of math but mostly algebra in the end.

user20683

I understand calculus well enough to solidly tutor in it

user20683

10:02 PM

raised a kid from a 33 to a 77

user20683

which is odd given the numbers on the side of the page...

user20683

I swear that's coincidence

Then take the automata, just make sure if you go into industry you avoid writing state machines like the plague.

user20683

@JimmyHoffa I know not to use Regex to parse XML

user20683

or HTML

user20683

10:06 PM

it makes the pages on the internet cry

yes yes heh, but do you know not to start solving a problem by creating an enum with the selection of possible states and then attaching that enum to things that might be in those states?

if not, take calc 3 heh

user20683

@JimmyHoffa I start by figuring out what algorithm I need then turning that algorithm into a language (typically python)

user20683

then I debug

user20683

rinse and repeat

Have you written much CRUD code?

user20683

10:09 PM

nope

You said before you're going for your CS specifically to go into industry right?

user20683

more or less

user20683

I figure I can pick up what I don't have as I go

user20683

I know what CRUD is and does

user20683

I'll probably build a few for my portfolio

10:11 PM

Of course, I picked it all up as I went, but that basic approach changes when you start working on large crud systems is all, it becomes more of a data modelling exercise than an algorithms question

user20683

@JimmyHoffa aye

user20683

that much I know

user20683

from here and I've done some work with parallel systems

user20683

honestly I think CS needs more team projects on massive stuff

Algorithms crop up and the amount varies from job to job (if you're lucky you end up more on the algorithms side) but a lot of folks graduate and their version of data modeling is what I just mentioned about attaching state attributes to everything that has selections of states

I wonder how good the data modeling classes there are if any in schools, if you want to go into industry good data modeling skills (the soft kind, not specific to a DB or other technology) becomes your bread and butter I would say, though like I said that varies from place to place

user20683

10:15 PM

Database class?

user20683

I've yet to take it

user20683

sadly

no, data modeling

Do they have any data modeling classes or just database classes?

I suppose they could teach it together... who knows

user20683

my program has a database class, a data structures class, a data mining class

user20683

everyone takes the middle

10:16 PM

ah

data structures is code for algorithms

it does shit for data modeling

user20683

data structures is intro to algorithms, intro to algorithms finishes that off

if I had to guess data mining would be the most valuable in the list

user20683

ish

user20683

the teacher is a huge theory guy

user20683

no idea

user20683

10:17 PM

how the class is

the data mining class?

user20683

I work, I have a particular window to take classes

Do you know what analytical vs transactional databases are?

user20683

@JimmyHoffa I will soon

user20683

the closest to data modeling we have from what I can tell is called "Software Engineering"

user20683

10:20 PM

we are limited to a flat file databse

user20683

*base

user20683

or we were

user20683

some of that is also covered in Programming Language Concepts

Heh. It's important. Take the data mining class whenever you get the chance (and the databases class as well), the mining class (and I'm guessing here) might explain the different ways of modeling data better than the others you've listed just because data mining refers to analytical databases which are kind of the minority (in my experience) and therefore may get explained by contrasting itself against the majority

user20683

@JimmyHoffa were that I could

10:22 PM

At some point no? Or are you 2 feet out the door there?

user20683

I'm gonna see about doing a stanford online course

user20683

last semester

user20683

but I'm working to plug as many holes as I can

Congrats. Good luck in the real world, life is a real b**** :)

user20683

I've worked in the real world as such for 6 years

user20683

10:23 PM

I expect just as much of a b**** but with longer hours for better pay

user20683

I do have the advantage of being able to write

You would do well to plug that DB hole in your knowledge

user20683

I'm looking at the taking the stanford online class

ah

user20683

the local one occurs while I'm working

10:25 PM

That's amazing that you were only allowed to use flat-files through your whole program

user20683

it wasn't a huge program

user20683

and yeah

user20683

I'm not gonna offer more than that in the way of analysis in public

Just seems like half the people who graduate and didn't self-study that are going to come out with half a leg to stand on in a lot of regards

user20683

true

user20683

10:26 PM

that's why I self taught version control

user20683

I've learned more on P.SE than in my program probably

That time would have been better spent learning SQL

user20683

I know a little

user20683

been meaning to do more

You have a sql server on hand?

user20683

10:27 PM

I can set one up

I mean the tech, like MSSQL?

user20683

doubtful

user20683

Oracle I think

user20683

MySQL definitely

Does MySQL allow sprocs? I don't even know. If so here's a tip, write an entire program in nothing but SQL. People did it for years so it's more than doable. Don't worry about the code being good so much as it will put you in a technology bubble forcing you to learn to do things in SQL with no alternatives

doesn't even have to be big

Should for you to learn your joins and subqueries

user20683

10:29 PM

@JimmyHoffa there's actually an MMO that is played in PosGreSQL

s/for/force/f

haha that's pretty funny. Some MUD eh

user20683

schemaverse.com

There ya go, write a stupid simple MUD in MySQL, characters have a name, health, and damage go forth and conquor

@WorldEngineer - Postgresql is free and lets you do a lot of fancy stuff

I forget about that one I've heard great things

user20683

10:31 PM

@psr I hear tale it's also very secure

user20683

or can be made to be so

user20683

I figure teach myself JS and SQL and brush up on my Java and Python and I should be reasonably employable

I've been working with MSSQL backend since '98 so I live in a bubble when it comes to available DB tech (other than Mongo which I self taught and is cool, regardless of all the fanbois)

user20683

@psr what's your take on Automata vs Calc III?

Martijn Pieters

Here is something to ponder:

2013 is composed of four sequential digits, obviously not in order. The last such year was nearly 600 years ago, back in 1432

How's that for special meaning!

@WorldEngineer: More Python, less Java.

10:40 PM

Does MySQL have proper joins now? I remember it previously had to use where's from what I recall. Grab ms SQL express, limited to 2gb dbs or postgre

Uh. Depends what you want to do I guess. The only practical use for Automata that I'm aware of is compiler related stuff (Domain Specific Language is potentially useful in random enterprise software even), though what they teach usually isn't super on-point for that. If you are going academic comp sci they will expect you know it I'm sure. Calc III would be more broadly useful, though easily 90% of programmers I know use no advanced math, ever.

There's Java work, but the python jobs are more likely to be fun.

user20683

@JimmyHoffa Python is my stronger language

user20683

but I'll learn whatever

user20683

I've few language prejudices

10:43 PM

I mean culturally more fun. Not the language use.

user20683

@JimmyHoffa oh, yeah. I've used it to do all kinds of weirdness

Martijn Pieters

@JimmyHoffa: I find using Python far more fun than using Java.

From a language POV.

I've used neither

I'm just speaking from what I've seen of python devs and shops culturally vs the same in java

Martijn Pieters

Yeah, I can imaging a Java dev shop to be a lot more formal.

I've managed to avoid those kinds of environments.

user20683

An android shop might not be

user20683

10:48 PM

embedded C would be interesting, I like low level C work, less so at OS level

user20683

or for large programs

Lucky you martin, I can successfully report from enterprise land that it blows here.

Martijn Pieters

Out for fireworks, see ya'll in 2013!

Cheers Martinn.

11:14 PM

@WorldEngineer If I recall correctly., you know Haskell right?

user20683

@Dynamic a modicum

user20683

not enough to write viable programs of any size

user20683

that's what I mean when I say I "know" x

@WorldEngineer Is it worth learning?

user20683

@Dynamic it will turn your brain inside out

user20683

11:16 PM

but it's very powerful and has some powerful concepts

user20683

I'm still attempting to learn it

user20683

it's one of the few languages with a "how to learn" x

user20683

guide

user20683

acm.wustl.edu/functional/haskell.php

user20683

that cat picture cracks me up everytime

11:18 PM

@WorldEngineer I know NO functional programming concepts what-so-ever.

It'll probably blow my mind.

user20683

@Dynamic you'll probably be more like "wha?"

I was also thinking about Scheme or Lisp...

user20683

scheme is good

It doesn't put your brain back right side out either

user20683

none of them do

11:19 PM

I don't even know what to do...

user20683

the SICP is fairly hard but invaluable

user20683

I've yet to actually bother finishing it

There are like 2-3 projects I want to start.

user20683

I have that problem

user20683

I can see like 4 or 5 projects that might be awesome

11:20 PM

Each of them require me too learn new technologies and I get overwhelmed and get a headache.

Haskell first made scheme and the MLs easy to learn. Not sure lisp first would do the same for Haskell

user20683

I'd start with an ML honestly

user20683

particularly given that you can then weld into F# or Scala

user20683

or OCaml

Ocaml sounds cool too...

Don't know much about F# or Scala

user20683

11:23 PM

F# is an ML for the CLR

user20683

Scala is a hybrid OO Functional language for the JVM

@WorldEngineer I personally am not crazy about JVM

user20683

the JVM itself is good, Java is meh

F# is based on ocaml. Scala looks weird to me because it was done by Java folks with no attention to other functional languages from what I can tell

user20683

it's not a bad language but it's not very sexy either

11:26 PM

I always think about Java and C# in the same boat... OO languages that big companies use...

Even though it's not completely true

user20683

C# and Java get used a fair bit by small indie game guys too

user20683

mainly due to the XBLA and Android

user20683

Minecraft is written in Java

user20683

I do recommend learning Smalltalk

user20683

or at least something about it

11:28 PM

@WorldEngineer I love Minecraft

user20683

I didn't grok OO very well until I used Obj C

Smalltalk looks interesting also.

@WorldEngineer I still don't

Gotta go.

Thanks

user20683

barnesandnoble.com/w/…

user20683

points for title

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