« first day (145 days earlier)      last day (4844 days later) » 

7:36 AM
Hi all
 
7:49 AM
Hello @Pierre303
 
 
3 hours later…
10:23 AM
G'nyt all
 
 
1 hour later…
11:26 AM
People removing themselves from SO Primary is depressing
 
 
3 hours later…
2:06 PM
@Pierre303 Can't really blame them, though. After lots of negative losses one might as well walk away.
 
@Anna: oh yes, their reaction are quite standard. I want to suggest down vote removal for future elections. This is not appropriate.
I guess we will have more human voting in P.SE.
 
You have to be in the top 10 to get through to the election proper and if you're so far behind I can see the logic.
@Pierre303 I can see the logic for down-voting though - "I don't want this person to be a moderator".
 
ChrisF: one of the fondamental principle of sport is to arrive to the finish line. However if you are agressed during the match, I understand you stop running
 
@ChrisF The same can be achieved by not upvoting them, but then you're not cancelling out someone else's upvote. I'm not sure if there's really a good case for the downvotes, but I'm not familiar with the details of this voting system.
 
When I don't like a candidate, I don't vote for him
 
2:10 PM
I wonder how many people upvoted their top picks and then blindly downvoted everybody else.
 
I wasn't necessarily advocating down-voting, but pointing out where the logic of allowing it might be coming from.
 
Sorry, didn't mean to sound like I'm arguing. :)
 
However I will admit to down-voting particular candidates in both the SO and SU elections who (in my opinion) would have made really bad moderators.
 
ChrisF: I understand that. What I'm questionning is the real necessity of down voting in elections in general, especially when it's public
 
Assuming I have a vote in the Programmers' primary I won't down-vote the other candidates - that would be unfair.
@Pierre303 The public nature of the primary vote has been questioned
 
2:13 PM
ChrisF: I think the SO team will do some debriefing internally.
 
I expected to see the results publicly but to cast my vote before seeing them
 
13
Q: Do not show the score for users during primaries.

badpI believe that showing the post score for nomination posts during primaries is a bad idea. When I loaded the primaries page during the election, the first thing I saw was a post voted -1. This immediately colored my impression of the post. Reading his post didn't indeed make me wish he was a mod...

I will however be up-voting the other candidates I think would make good moderators.
 
I'll try to participate in meta.so posts that talk about election, I want to see how it goes before to see if there is something to improve or not. Maybe it's fine like it is.
 
Whatever problems the system might have will definitely be the most pronounced on SO.
 
I can see an argument for having the votes public - it allows for a consensus on who the top 10 candidates are to be achieved. In the same way that a consensus on what's a good answer is achieved.
I think that everyone should see the split totals.
Does anyone have enough rep to vote but less than 1K on SO?
 
2:20 PM
I'll so some research about the phenomenum and share the results with you.
@ChrisF: no I have 4K
 
I'm at not-quite-5k
 
Too much rep!
 
Why? Could you explain?
We can't see split right when we have less than 1K ?
 
@Pierre303 That's right. But you can vote if you have 150 points.
in The Tavern (General) on Meta Stack Overflow Chat, 34 secs ago, by Yi Jiang
@ChrisF There's a MSO question about that, all eligible voters should be able to see split votes after the next deployment
So all eligible voters will be able to see the split before the primary phase ends. Good.
 
Great
because sometimes, it gives the impression that a candidate has been only downvoted
Rook for example has been upvoted more than 100 times
 
2:25 PM
His nomination pitch kind of said "I'm not taking this seriously".
I'm insanely curious to find out what motivates people to downvote vs not vote at all. :)
 
@Anna: yes Rook's bad example. He is paying for his bad introduction, but I'm not sure every candidate did think that so much would have negative votes!
 
Actually a split vote is a bad thing too - you don't want your moderators being controversial - it could end up being the cause of problems rather than the solution.
 
I dislike that candidates can be downvoted. Why not follow the model of the well-known, well-understood and proven general election. I vote for the candidate that I want and that's that. The idea of being able to downvote the other candidates is absurd and divisive.
 
@AdamCrossland That's the case (well you have 3 votes - 1st, 2nd & 3rd preferences) in the final election stage. This stage is the primary phase where the top 10 who go through to the final stage are decided.
 
I think a limited number of downvotes may be better, to make it clear that they shouldn't be used lightly.
 
2:30 PM
However, I'm not 100% comfortable with down-votes either (though see my comment from earlier about their potential meaning).
Perhaps they should cost rep just like down-votes on questions and answers
Plus you don't have to down-vote yourself.
 
I'm pretty sure the down voting ability in that particular case has a strong negative impact on both the candidates and the community.
 
Downvoting cost too little rep for it to be meaningful inhibitor in the primary.
I agree with Pierre. The downvoting thing is just ugly and it makes me feel uncomfortbale.
 
Add your comment and/or answer to the meta question I linked to above. If enough people make the case for not having it then things might change. The team do respond to feedback.
3
 
It encourages public humiliation, nothing more. It's like lapidation in some countries. Nothing more. It has the exact same impact.
 
 
1 hour later…
3:49 PM
Hahaha. I sent a message via IM to Aardvark about the email address I used to sign up. They sent a message, to the address I used to sign up, telling me they couldn't give me that information. Win!
 
Nice. :)
 
So at any rate, to answer a question from yesterday, vark is still running
vark.com/s/w3jL -- invitation link if anyone wants one
 
4:21 PM
Good morning all
 
Hi Josh
 
I agree with @Pierre303 and @AdamCrossland, you shouldn't have downvotes
Simply don't upvote
 
One of the core principle of fair election is removed. Preventing candidates to be a victim of the herd effect.
"We are discreet sheep; we wait to see how the drove is going, and then go with the drove." –Mark Twain
 
@Pierre303 That is a good quote
 
I observed the same effect with questions here. If the first vote on an answer is a downvote, the change to get another downvote is increased. Also ridiculously up voted answers are up voted by sheeps.
the chance
I will post something on meta about the current users page too that should be improved because of the sheep effect behavior.
 
4:31 PM
@Pierre303 This has been observed across all sites.
 
ChrisF: Is there any plan to reduce the effect in future releases ?
 
@Pierre303 I have also seen the opposite effect.
An early initial downvote on an answer or question can often lead to people mass upvoting it out of sympathy - negating the reason to cast down votes in the first place
I would support making downvotes more rep costly (-5) for the receiver and the issuer (-2)
 
Are questions in the vein of "what could I use X for" outside the scope of P.SO?
er, PSE
 
@Pierre303 I don't know. But @JoshK also raises a valid point. There's no simple answer
@gms8994 Yes.
 
ok. would they be outside the scope of SO?
 
4:41 PM
However, if your question was "what could I use to do Y" it might be OK.
@gms8994 I'd say yes as well. There's no one right answer
"What's is X good for" might be OK - but it would depend on how it's phrased.
 
I have this desire to use hadoop for something. But none of the "examples" (if you call them that) are any good. I'm trying to determine a real-world use for hadoop
 
Now "Is there a real world use for hadoop?" might be OK. Particularly if you can demonstrate you've looked into the existing tutorials
But it might get stomped on too.
 
@ChrisF on SO or PSE?
 
It's more likely to survive on Programmers'. I won't close it as it could provoke some interesting answers. However, other users and mods might not agree.
 
gotcha. I'll consider the best way to ask
 
4:51 PM
afternoon
 
@instanceofTom And good morning to you too!
 
@gms8994 @ChrisF How about something like "What problems is Hadoop suited for? What are the advantages of using it for those problems over other solutions?"
 
Josh: I'm coupable of that. I systématically up-vote down voted answers or questions if the down vote is not commented. Maybe I shouldn't.
 
5:09 PM
@AnnaLear that might work...
 
@Pierre303 Perhaps not
Depends on if you think the DV is warranted
Sometimes I will DV answers that are just so wrong they don't need a comment.
Perhaps I should leave more comments.
 
I rarely down-vote. If something's wrong I'll leave a comment - the goal is to get the answer corrected after all.
 
The Comms room is blowing up
 
@instanceofTom What do you mean?
 
its busy in there
 
5:39 PM
Ok, twitter has made it entirely too difficult to send a DM to someone
There should really just be a button on their profile page that says "send private message", but no.
 
@gms8994 How do you send direct messages to someone?
I don't do the whole "Twitter - Broadcast your life in continuous 140 character bursts!" thing
 
I am not much into twitter either, anyone here use tumblr? ( I don't, I just recently heard of it )
 
6:13 PM
@JoshK apparently, you go to your profile page, click on the messages button, and then type their name. But it doesn't specifically say "direct message"
 
@gms8994 You can also do "d @username message" right in the status update box.
 
@AnnaLear I'd forgotten the syntax, unfortunately, and had to Google search it :)
I dislike that you can't DM people who don't follow you.
 
6:28 PM
@gms8994, if you could malicious users would spam everyone
 
@instanceofTom oh I know, but it's still annoying
 
 
1 hour later…
7:37 PM
Blargh. What's the site that will let you post an HTML source, with javascript, and have it execute it in the browser?
 
that's it! thanks
 
And it does CSS as well. ;)
 
jsfiddle.net is awesome
 
I just used it to figure out that I was completely wrong in an answer that I just made on SO.
 
7:48 PM
While there is activity I might as well ask: Has anyone integrated PayPal with Grails?
The PayPal docs are a mess and both plugins are out of date.
 
speaking of jsfiddle, can someone explain to me why my sad little attempt doesn't work? jsfiddle.net/sWE5y
 
Instead of appendTo
 
nope, I know what the problem was. stupid document ready
 
That should be done automatically
Ah
You didn't select that from the dropdown
 
ah. I assumed that meant when the framework would be loaded
 
8:02 PM
any WPF people around??
 
lol no just wanted to talk to anyone who knows WPF
 
@giddy Don't know WPF, sorry.
 
Ive read most SO question : Should I choose WPF or WinForms for my next project.
 
I've been trying to get up-to-speed on WPF for years, but there are so many new things to learn. I keep learning things that aren't as professionally lucrative.
 
8:09 PM
For me, I tried out silverlight, I churned out really convoluted code, due to the ban on blokcing code
@AdamCrossland oh?
yea see, that the problem
is it better to choose a technology you know over something cooler that you will learn as you go..
hoping it 'll be "better"
??
any thoughts? Even the non WPF'ers
 
I guess that I'd say it depends on why you are choosing the technology. Is it for a personal project that is open-ended and won't cause a disaster if it fails? Go with the cool new thing. OTOH, if it is something for work and it has to work...go with what you know. Everything else being equal.
 
For instance I'm very glad I chose silverlight over js/html even tho I had to get upto speed in a week and my code is so terrible I want to rewrite it. I'm just hapy because it would have been an absolute nightmare to do it in js!!
oh its for a high-end production app.
the real issue Im having is SoC
When I write win forms code, its all UI+Glue+Code
 
SoC? Subversion of Control?
 
separation of concerns
I swore I would NOT look at WPF (I get tempted quick) but now after trying to look up Model-View-Controller implementations in win forms and then UI frameworkks..
 
Of course. Sorry.
Yeah, that can be hard to tackle the way that WinForms works.
 
8:17 PM
seems like its a little hard to write good maintainable/testable code in win forms. I experimented trying my own silly little MVC implementation... didn;t work at all! lol
but I'm not also sure whether I'm evaluating this correctly, am I worrying or over thinking too much... the project, is for a VERY big company and is very time bound... but compared to most Line of Business apps, its not all that complex.
 
A former client of mine proudly proclaimed how they'd implemented MVC in their WinForms application. When I actually opened it in VS and started looking around, it was all that I could do to suppress the urge to scream.
A total mess.
 
yea! =( I knw the feeling!
i was so proud of the idea in my head, but when I wrote the code... eye-eye-eye!!
I'm just started looking at MVVM, seems nice, but I wonder whether I should care about seperation of concerns at all so much, if the project grew like I imagined, I could quote a price and even re-write the UI code (since the code-base itself won't be all that big!)
(lol! its so annoying to work alone! =( =( )
@AdamCrossland do you think i would be trouble if I just used WPF with a very simple MVVM approach.. with most of the thing looking like it was win forms anyway..
would that make it easier to upgrade it later... or should I just stick to WinForms.. and worry about fancy updates later?
 
Hard to come up with a meaningful answer to a question like that, especially when it is client work. I would guess that you could get it done with WPF & MVVM and not incur too much risk. it's really not very difficult technology.
 
8:35 PM
any chances it could turn into a mess!
?
or more clearly are there any WPF gotchas? I keep seeing on SO questions... WPF'ers saying.. you have to unlearn win forms!?
 
There's always a chance that everything will turn into a mess. That is where you come in. By being a smart and awesome consultant, you keep everything from turning into a mess.
 
=P
 
I don't think that it makes sense that you have to unlearn WinForms, but you'd certainly want to approach learning WPF by putting aside the WinForms mentatily. They are completely different models.
 
well lets hope I make the right decision.. I always over-think everything and I'm usually deathly paranoid about getting it right.
(mostly because I'm self taught with no degree)
but what does that boil down to... Ive read bits about WPF... seems like defining UI is different and then comes the data binding? One thing I haven't got my head around is why isn't is simple to nest/inherit from controls?
like SuperButton : MyBaseButton but now the designer for SuperButton doesn't load up right? Seems like they didn't intend for you to inherit from controls!?
 
8:54 PM
@AdamCrossland anyhu.. I'm off to bed! Will research all this tomorrow and make the big decision! =P Thanks for all your inputs =)
 
9:31 PM
Ok, head.js is actually kind of neat
 
 
1 hour later…
10:47 PM
daily limit rep bug...
0
Q: Daily Limit Bug

Dan McGrathI've noticed this morning that once I hit 190, I stopped receiving rep. I was on 9 votes (+9/-0) in this question: What's the name for a bug that suddenly breaks things but has always been present? Since then the answer has went to (+12/-1) yet my rep has not changed. I don't care about the re...

 
11:45 PM
I posted this before but I thought maybe some of you would enjoy this project I've been working on for a while. forrst.com/posts/Web_Terminal-RCu
 
@Chevex That looks really neat.
 

« first day (145 days earlier)      last day (4844 days later) »