Plants and Quantum Mechanics

T Abraham

00:05

This room is about Plants and Quantum Mechanics... I am currently working on @MarkMitchison 's answer to that question, with @alarge and @vzn and @ThomasKlimpel helping me..

room topic changed to Plants and Quantum Mechanics: To examine the mathematical aspects of a theory on plants and their relation to quantum mechanics [quantum-mechanics]

hello @ThomasKlimpel

Thomas Klimpel

Householder transformation

In linear algebra, a Householder transformation (also known as Householder reflection or elementary reflector) is a linear transformation that describes a reflection about a plane or hyperplane containing the origin. Householder transformations are widely used in numerical linear algebra, to perform QR decompositions and in the first step of the QR algorithm. The Householder transformation was introduced in 1958 by Alston Scott Householder. Its analogue over general inner product spaces is the Householder operator. == Definition and properties == The reflection hyperplane can be defined by a unit...

This tridiagonalization procedure is actually the numerical robust alternative to the Lanczos algorithm. The QR algorithm is actually what is used to diagonalize the tridiagonal matrix.

T Abraham

@ThomasKlimpel so what's this householder transformation?

Thomas Klimpel

00:22

A very numerical method, because it is robust and stable. It an unitary transformation which maps one vector to a vector you like, as long as both vectors have the same length.

The link is actually to the tridiagonalization procedure which is described in this article.

T Abraham

@ThomasKlimpel so, let me summarize..the diagnolization is done by the Lanczos algorithim, where the QR algorithim is needed where the householder transformation is needed... correct?

Thomas Klimpel

Well, Householder transformation is just the title of the the wikipedia article where I found the alternative tridiagonalization procedure. The typical analytical tridiagonalization procedure is the Lanczos algorithm, while the typical numerical procedure described in the linked article.

But if you cannot solve it analytically, then you don't really need to understand the details of the numerics of the package you use. Just use matlab/scilab/octave or lapack/mkl.

T Abraham

@ThomasKlimpel ok.. thanks..

@ThomasKlimpel please join @vzn 's room..

T Abraham

00:49

Plants and Quantum Mechanics resources

1 hour ago, 29 minutes total – 70 messages, 3 users, 7 stars

Bookmarked 10 secs ago by T Abraham

T Abraham

01:11

hello, welcome to my chatroom..@dmckee @usukidoll

any help will be appreciated..

usukidoll

dude did you downvoted my questions?

err ummm nevermind

that's gotta be some random person out there... not you ^_^. IT happens...

T Abraham

@usukidoll it's ok.. but please, if you want to talk about something like this.. I don't know whether this is the right room to talk about it.. anyway u know linear algebra? Basically I need linear algebra help...

usukidoll

you mean matrices

yeah it's awesome stuff

T Abraham

@usukidoll u know how to diagnolize them? please teach me..

usukidoll

though I still believe I deserve a higher grade than a C ugh.........

diagonalize the matrix you mean

oh man...... I just saw what it is.. it has something to do with eigenvalues .. the problem is that my professor just taught me the basic stuff in linear algebra

T Abraham

01:18

@usukidoll oh..well, thanks anyway...

usukidoll

like reduce echelon form... row reduce... gauss... gauss jordan... rank... identity

T Abraham

@usukidoll ? BTW, u know about gaussian elimination?

usukidoll

yes!!!

it's another way of saying ok let's reduce echelon the matrix

T Abraham

@usukidoll please teach me...

@MarkMitchison hello.. want to see my two site Hamiltonian and help me on it?

usukidoll

so you need to find your main diagonal triangle like on a 3 x 3 matrix we have

1 2 3
3 3 3
3 3 9
Where 1 3 9 is the main diagonal triangle... do you see the numbers 3 3 and 3 the bottom left of the matrix? we need to get rid of them using row operations

now we need to follow some rules here... first and foremost we need a 1 on the top left

that 1 is supposed to go down and right like after I do the row operations I should get something like

1 2 3
0 1 3
0 0 1

or something like that

hmm there are 3 rules for echelon.. I can't remember one. but I know for reduce row wherever there is a 1 there must be a 0 in the column like the middle it must have 0 on the top and 0 on the bottom... basically for reduce row you are aiming for an identity matrix like this 3 x 3 example

1 0 0
0 1 0
0 0 1

bottom 1 must have all 0's on the top of the column...

let's see if I remembered correctly.... we have 3 row operations... we can switch the rows woo

we can add, subtract like r1-r2 -> r2 meaning subtract row one and row two and put the result in row 2

or you can multiply the row or divide the row.

like if I have

3 3 3 and I need to divide that first row... to get a one

1/3 r1 -> r1

1 1 1

similarly if I want 3's
3r1 -> r1

3 3 3

though a rule is broken already D: due to the fact that the top left MUST ALWAYS CONTAIN A ONE!

Note: Row operations are mostly used for matrices... there is only one type of matrix that allows column operations

and that's an elementary matrix

that is the only matrix that is allowed to do column operations.. everything else is pure row operations only

T Abraham

01:32

thanks..

T Abraham

02:03

@MarkMitchison u there?

@usukidoll wait, wat do u mean by echelon all the time?

usukidoll

huh?

most matrices are row operations only

T Abraham

Right now, I really need @alarge or @MarkMitchison ...

@usukidoll for example, chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/19818385#19818385

@usukidoll or chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/19818436#19818436

usukidoll

oh you mean the reduce echelon form rules yeah at first they are tricky to follow

T Abraham

@usukidoll no, I am asking, what is echelon?

usukidoll

Row echelon form

In linear algebra, a matrix is in echelon form if it has the shape resulting of a Gaussian elimination. Row echelon form means that Gaussian elimination has operated on the rows and column echelon form means that Gaussian elimination has operated on the columns. In other words, a matrix is in column echelon form if its transpose is in row echelon form. Therefore only row echelon forms are considered in the remainder of this article. The similar properties of column echelon form are easily deduced by transposing all the matrices. Specifically, a matrix is in row echelon form if All nonzero rows...

T Abraham

02:14

room topic changed to Plants and Quantum Mechanics: To examine different aspects of a theory on plants and their relation to quantum mechanics [quantum-mechanics]

@usukidoll ah..

hey @J.Musser .. please read this for background info on this topic...

:

J. Musser

Uh?

T Abraham

livescience.com/37746-plants-use-quantum-physics.html

@usukidoll let me read this for some time usukidoll.. thanks BTW..

@J.Musser u checking out that link?

J. Musser

@TAbraham yeah.

T Abraham

@J.Musser cool huh? want to talk about it in this chatroom? or should I make a seperate chatroom in the biology chat..

J. Musser

@TAbraham What part do ya want to talk about?

T Abraham

02:19

@J.Musser anything... u read any scientific papers?

I have one that we could go over...

J. Musser

@TAbraham At times.

T Abraham

anyway @J.Musser would u like to work w/ me on this cool stuff and chat about it?

J. Musser

I thought this was interesting

2

@TAbraham What are you working on?

T Abraham

@J.Musser modelling this effect.. any maybe test it? a biological perspective is important I am from the biology side but two is better than one..

J. Musser

@TAbraham I'm no expert, but I'm interested to see what you can come up with

@TAbraham Which affect do you refer to there?

T Abraham

02:35

@J.Musser the quantum superposition effect..

@J.Musser still, any experience will be appreciated..

vzn

hi TA. keep up good work.

just remember, not everything can be learned in cyberspace & in chat rooms.

T Abraham

@vzn where did u go?

@vzn I know..

@vzn let's talk...

@J.Musser I kinda get about LHCs but not fully.. could u explain?

@usukidoll u there?

usukidoll

yea h I was emailing my prof

T Abraham

@usukidoll then it's ok.. go ahead.. continue with what u were doing.. sorry for disturbing u..

usukidoll

that's ok I was talking about another example from the textbook I was using

vzn

02:48

TA my suggestion at moment is to start a blog & collect some of your thoughts & great refs youve turned up.

T Abraham

@vzn but I can't do everything by myself.. I need people like you, TK, @alarge , and @MarkMitchison (only if I knew where MM is, I really need him).. and now I have more people to help me.. like @J.Musser and @usukidoll ...It will be a grt project and I am excited.. please help me..

usukidoll

kkk except I have to study Japanese tonight XD

vzn

weve all helped you dude.

usukidoll

I need to do some memorization + I am sick with a cold but I've been drinking crown royal to get it out of my system lol

I'm hungry D:

vzn

(TA) your enthusiasm is strong/ rare. the force is strong with you :p

usukidoll

02:53

ha ha XD

vzn

youve zoomed in on a big fat critical area, but its very hard too. it takes years to get into its details that youre pursuing now.

usukidoll

who?!

vzn

wow usuk you win the cutest av award :)

usukidoll

thanks

T Abraham

@vzn thanks

vzn

02:59

blogging is time consuming but rewarding. its a step above chat rooms wink... think of all the time youve spent chatting... is it the best use of your time?

chatting has some similarities to blogging. a sort of micro )( blogging.

if you just paste in here all the stuff you run across over time, thats close to micro blogging.

starring it is helpful also.

T Abraham

03:12

@vzn but when I need help, I need people like you

@vzn

@vzn don't leave me!

vzn

03:25

lol

so how did you meet JM/usuk?

T Abraham

@vzn u there?

@vzn usuk visited me and I asked Jm to join...

so.. @vzn what's your explanation of gaussian elimination..

@vzn and.. you're gone..

usukidoll

xD

T Abraham

@usukidoll i am not into asynchronous communication

usukidoll

huh?

T Abraham

@usukidoll nvm

J. Musser

03:36

@TAbraham LHC as in what?

T Abraham

@J.Musser light harvesting complexes..

J. Musser

@TAbraham Ah!

T Abraham

@J.Musser can u explain LHCs?

J. Musser

@TAbraham You mean in a more complex fashion than is presented on Wikipedia?

T Abraham

@J.Musser yep..

J. Musser

03:43

@TAbraham I can't.

T Abraham

@J.Musser why?

J. Musser

@TAbraham Because I haven't studied it that far. My knowledge is rudimentary in that area.

T Abraham

@J.Musser ok.. thanks but..

@J.Musser but what do you know?

J. Musser

@TAbraham Many other things?

T Abraham

@vzn whereever u are, please come.. please please come...Please!

@J.Musser about photosynthesis

@vzn thanks...

@vzn no thanks...

@vzn are u playing with me?

@vzn i am not into asynchronous communication..please, let's talk..

J. Musser

19:34

@TAbraham Basically, how the plants harvest light and use the energy to convert CO2 into sugars for the plants' use

T Abraham

21:14

@J.Musser I know that.. I want more details, thanks anyway...

hey @vzn ?

so @vzn .. what do u think about gaussian elimination? I couldn't find much info in my linear algebra book..

vzn

lol then it must not be a very good linear algebra book or maybe youre mistaken

which book are you using?

J. Musser

21:34

@TAbraham Have you tried researching?

T Abraham

@vzn I think he author's last name is stang..

@J.Musser I did a bit..

J. Musser

@TAbraham There's a lot of good material out there

T Abraham

21:51

@J.Musser i guess..

@MarkMitchison waitin for u..

@alarge u there?

J. Musser

Pings don't work if they aren't autocompleting for ya

T Abraham

@J.Musser really?

J. Musser

@TAbraham yeah. If you try to ping me, it should autocomplete, so you'll know it works.

A ping doesn't notify anyone who hasn't been in the room for a while

or was nnever in

vzn

TA try writing out the title/ names of author(s) of the book & might look up the TOC on amazon etc

in some rare cases linear algebra/ gaussian elimination is covered as low as 7th grade. theres even cliffs notes

J. Musser

@vzn like barnesandnoble.com/w/… maybe

T Abraham

22:12

@vzn thanks...

BTW @vzn ..what's the matrix I need to diagnolize.. I have an idea but want to confirm

@J.Musser yep @vzn .. this one I think..

T Abraham

22:24

@ThomasKlimpel let's talk...

@ThomasKlimpel if u are available?

@J.Musser I found this pic in my bio textbook.. it is really helpful to understanding photosystems...

@J.Musser so basically, the photon finds the best path through the light harvesting complexes to the special chlorophyll a molecules using quantum superposition... the light energy jumps from one pigment molecule to another..

J. Musser

y u pinning everything?

vzn

strang, a good choice. here is a TOC for the strang book.

T Abraham

@J.Musser u don't want me to?

vzn

it does not refer exactly to gaussian elimination in the TOC. does it in the index? annoyingly the index seems not available online. but it does refer to "elimination" sec2. thats the relevant chapter.

J. Musser

@TAbraham idec really, it just looks weird

vzn

22:39

what math classes have you already studied/ finished?

did you get much STEM exposure in high school?

T Abraham

@vzn yep..

@vzn about calc 2..

@vzn why?

vzn

23:02

calc 2 not bad. were you comfortable with it? did it make sense? did you like any of it? what kind of grade if you mind me asking? you will have to become a near STEM geek/ maniac to conquer this stuff.

T Abraham

@vzn you see.. I am currently taking calc 2, thought I studied it before and had fun.. studied the basics of calc 3 as well...very little calc 3.. u knoww partial derivatives sort of stuff..

vzn

ok

T Abraham

@vzn Why do u need to know?

@vzn BTW, u saw my two site hamiltonian? is it correct?

@vzn it's in the $\hbar$ (lol) ..

Gaussian elimination description from @usukidoll : chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/20706/conversation/…

vzn

23:29

where did you write out your hamiltonian? not an expert on that.

you might try writing eqns on paper & taking digital snapshots.

T Abraham