Ask Ubuntu General Room

Takkat

21:13

Why is this still alive??? askubuntu.com/questions/263999/…

Seth

Not for me.

Takkat

33 people, -8 votes but not enough spam-flags.... tsk tsk tsk

Seth

WHERE IS IT!!

I don't see anything.

Takkat

\o/ Gone finally after 28 mins.

Seth

Oh, OK.

@Takkat That really frustrates me too. I wonder if people even know they can flag...

Takkat

21:16

@Seth I bet they don't because then they would do that.

At least many people don't know of the power of spam-flags.

Seth

Yeah... But the users who don't know about flags usually don't visit meta either :/

Takkat

That's it. :"(

No meta, no chat... sighs

Seth

I know :(

Takkat

@Seth I opened a meta on this: meta.askubuntu.com/questions/6258/…

Seth

21:33

@Takkat Ah, good.

Takkat

Roland the good one already gave an answer... :) Thanks.

jrg

21:46

@Takkat sure, do it

FEichinger

It slightly concerns me that you so blatantly lie about Roland's true nature, @Takkat.

Calling him "the good one" and all ...

RolandiXor

@Takkat you're welcome my friend :)!

Takkat

@FEichinger Oh... did I miss something about him? I always was certain about him being good.

FEichinger

Oh god! But Roland is nearly as bad as jrg!

RolandiXor

Silently plots against @FEichinger

FEichinger

21:49

:D

jrg

silently plots against @RolandiXor

4

RolandiXor

!

Takkat

All those dressed in blue are not sheep but wolves.

3

Ask Ubuntu Meta

3

Q: Should we commment on spam to get it deleted faster?

Recently I observe that obvious spam often gets far more down votes than spam flags would be needed for community deleting and locking: Should we in case of an obvious spam post leave a comment so that users who don't know about the power of spam-flags will downvote and spam-flag appropriately...

discussion

RolandiXor

Heck, even my very eyes are blue!

Plants propaganda implements in @jrg's Kingdom...

FEichinger

21:52

@jrg @RolandiXor See, that's where we are different. I openly plot against you! :P

Seth

Plots against spam...

RolandiXor

And that is why we always win.

Takkat

<-- has his avatar prepared in blue

Seth

I am more patriotic.

Takkat

RolandiXor

21:52

O_O

The Emblem!

Seth

Scarier.

FEichinger

@RolandiXor You haven't won. Ever. !!!.

RolandiXor

George is here. It's all over for you.

FEichinger

@Takkat Now that's ... weird.

RolandiXor

The Emblem summoned him :)

Octavian Damiean

21:53

> ♫ Who lives in a house deep in the alps? – Octaaaaviaaan Daaaamieaaaan – Who's bought 14 GB of DDR2 RAM? – Octaaaaviaaan Daaaamieaaaan ... ♪ ♪ ♪

George Edison

14GB? Nice.

Seth

I don't talk about specs, but that's nice.

Takkat

bedtime here - good night all BBT

Octavian Damiean

nods 14 GB. :)

ECC RAM that is.

RolandiXor

Nukes @OctavianDamiean

You are banished!

Octavian Damiean

21:55

:D

George Edison

Makes my 3GB of RAM lower its head in shame.

Octavian Damiean

Hellbanished?

RolandiXor

Banished for being more privileged than us!

Seth

I've never even needed more than 5...

RolandiXor

@OctavianDamiean To the abyss!

Octavian Damiean

21:55

OH NEY!!

George Edison

Actually, for what it's worth - the only time I ever needed more than 3GB of RAM was when running Eclipse.

4

Seth

@GeorgeEdison LOL

That's worth a star

RolandiXor

I run Blender. I NEED more than this paltry 4GB!

@GeorgeEdison :D

Octavian Damiean

All that for 90€. :)

George Edison

Oh, and Blender too. But Blender also benefits from video RAM.

RolandiXor

21:56

flips a table and walks out

George Edison

Did anyone else try the new TrackMania Stadium Open Beta?

RolandiXor

@GeorgeEdison only with some drivers, well, when rendering

George Edison

@RolandiXor [cough] Nvidia binary driver [cough]

jrg

@FEichinger I see.

RolandiXor

Exactly lol - ATI/AMD? Forget Cycles... unless you use FGLRX, a new graphics card, Ubuntu 12.04... (Have I gotten all the requirements?)

jrg

21:59

Work has not had a IT department that lasted longer than 5 months. Until this one.

George Edison

Ignoring Linus for the moment, Nvidia cards just plain work on Ubuntu with the binary driver.

jrg

Now we're at 6 months, 4 days and counting.

mateo_salta

@RolandiXor and the experimental driver

jrg

parties

RolandiXor

@mateo_salta just ensure you run an old version of X :)

rofl I'm being too hard on AMD...

Seth

22:00

yes.

RolandiXor

@jrg beer?

mateo_salta

It worked fine on my desktop (just had to use the latest experimental to get steam going)

RolandiXor

I can't use the proprietary AMD drivers. I have a 3450, and I'm no 13.04.

George Edison

@RolandiXor He's 16!

RolandiXor

@GeorgeEdison lol I know :D

mateo_salta

22:02

oh, I have a 5450

RolandiXor

I was hoping for him to say yes, so I could reply "Jail."

Seth

@RolandiXor Who doesn't know? poke @jrg

meh formatting.

mateo_salta

non-alcoholic version?

RolandiXor

@Seth :P

@mateo_salta you mean mauby? :)???

(Yes, I know, you're lost)

(But Google, and a plane trip to Barbados, are your friends).

mateo_salta

@RolandiXor soda?

Mauby

: Mauby (in Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Saint Lucia, Trinidad and Tobago, Grenada, Guyana, Bermuda, Barbados and Anguilla), but also known as mavi (maví or mabí) in Puerto Rico, mabi in Haiti and the Dominican Republic, and maubi in the Virgin Islands and Dutch Caribbean islands of St. Eustatius, St. Maarten and Saba), is a tree bark-based beverage grown, and widely consumed, in the Caribbean. It is made with sugar and the bark and/or fruit of certain species in the Colubrina genus including Colubrina elliptica (also called behuco indio) and Colubrina arborescens, a small tree nativ...

Seth

22:06

eww

mateo_salta

this part is interesting, "To many, it is an acquired taste, and has been known to cause an initial laxative reaction unexpected to many first-time drinkers."

RolandiXor

@mateo_salta no not that one D:

although, the normal one + soda == winwinwinwinwinwinwinwin

@Seth don't knock it till you try it (and get hooked on it)

Seth

@RolandiXor shrug

RolandiXor

I must warn, it is slightly addictive (at least from experience). But it quenches thirst like nothing else.

mateo_salta

I'm liking this right now

RolandiXor

22:10

Whoa nice

mateo_salta

Tamarind soda!

Seth

@RolandiXor I must say, water was never so good until I stopped drinking anything else.

RolandiXor

@Seth lol

I think you've been drinking too much haterade

jk

Seth

lol

I don't like gatorade.

RolandiXor

I've never had it.

Seth

22:21

YAY 100th answer!

OT? askubuntu.com/q/264032/44179

RolandiXor

Duplicate.

Also not OT/NARQ/TL...

Just an all around bad question for this site.

I leave it to the community to vote for now though.

Seth

22:37

Anyone here with some time and close votes? Got some Q's in the Regulators Room that need closing.

Flags are nice too.

jrg

22:52

@Roland no.

sorry, biked home. :-)

George Edison

Absolute facepalm.

jrg

I'll believe it works when I see it run on my thinkpad

FEichinger

@GeorgeEdison > A mature code-base brings with it legacy support for features and functions that are no longer needed on modern desktops

Great.

So, let's scrap backwards compatibility, because to hell with old hardware!

jrg

what 30-year-old hardware are you using?

FEichinger

My old PC which I've now forced into server status.

jrg

22:57

why do you need font rendering on that level? we're not even using it anymore.

FEichinger

I'm saying the general concept sucks. Cause I have this tingling sense of something being dropped along the way that just shouldn't be dropped.

jrg

Linus scrapped support for the original Linux machine like two years ago. about time XOrg did that.

FEichinger

In practice, 90%+ of users won't have any problem, and I fully agree with that. But I fear that this might contain a couple of steps back that are slightly unnecessary.

Ask Ubuntu Meta

2

Q: How to add a question to AskUbuntu's Twitter account?

I followed the Twitter account of AskUbuntu and find interesting question through this channel. However when I try to answer questions I often come across questions which answers are quite good/interesting or which need a (better) answer. Is there a way to alert the person who maintains the Twitt...

discussion

jrg

perhaps. but sometimes you have to cut your losses.

FEichinger

22:59

It's a huge leap forward, definitely. But it's gotta be a careful leap - and I just don't see that with the recent stuff that's come up.

jrg

which is what I think Canonical is doing.

FEichinger

@AskUbuntuMeta Oh, for fuck's sake! Get the hell outta this discussion.

George Edison

X is old. I still don't see why they didn't go with Wayland.

Qt5 already works with Wayland even.

FEichinger

@GeorgeEdison If you're already considering such a change, it makes sense to just build it from scratch.

jrg

right

George Edison

23:08

Wrong.

jrg

Mir isn’t a problem. If apps built for Ubuntu still run on other distros, the whole ecosystem wins. Unlike Android, which is more insular!

Tweeted by segphault on March 4, 2013 at 10:58 PM

2007: “Canonical sucks bc it uses our code and makes nothing itself.” 2013: “Canonical sucks bc it makes its own stuff and doesn’t use ours”

Tweeted by segphault on March 4, 2013 at 10:23 PM

and true again.

George Edison

I disagree with the "let's start from scratch" philosophy.

There are relatively few instances where that actually makes sense.

jrg

I think that a project when nothing else works is an option.

Seth

@jrg askubuntu.com/posts/264032/revisions

jrg

The only reason we haven't set out to do that for a lot of things at work is money. Apparently, canonical has money and manpower to do that.

George Edison

23:09

Time will tell.

jrg

@Seth that's the same question

George Edison

But now is a good time to make sure Debian runs on all of your equipment.

FEichinger

I love how I'm the doomsayer and yet George looks like he's about to jump ship.

Seth

@jrg He's saying its not a dupe.

George Edison

I'm kidding for the most part :P

jrg

23:11

i am seriously beginning to wonder if i'm doing the right thing teaching people about ubuntu

@Seth i know.

@Seth i almost want to say "well, ask this question on U&L about debian"

George Edison

EVERYBODY SWITCH TO FREEBSD BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE!!11!

5

FEichinger

@GeorgeEdison I know, but it's still funny. :P

@GeorgeEdison ★

Seth

@jrg Yes yes I know. Comment is needed though. Maybe change the close reason to NC.

jrg

@Seth yeah, fossfreedom and i both commented

George Edison

POSIX-compliance FTW.

jrg

23:12

gah, NO. NO BSD

Seth

OK good.

jrg

For crying out loud, NO BSD

2

mateo_salta

@jrg I never could get it configured to install

Seth

No Fedora.

jrg

@mateo_salta BSD or Debian?

@Seth fedora could be nice.

mateo_salta

23:13

BSD

jrg

we'd need to start like, the fedora remix club or something.

Seth

BSD could be nice...

Is Yum yummy?

jrg

run our own archive with the stuff people actually use.

mateo_salta

Solaris

jrg

guys, i'm trying to be serious here, but really? Solaris?

3

George Edison

23:14

Time to write my own operating system...

mateo_salta

I have it on my pentium 4...

Seth

@GeorgeEdison Don't contradict yourself.

George Edison

> "It can't be that hard, can it?"

mateo_salta

cant even get internet working because it insists on using proxy's

jrg

i need to get debian on here.

George Edison

23:14

@Seth Uhm... actually... I was kidding...

jrg

just to try it out

but i also want to actually have something usable.

FEichinger

@jrg So ... the entire opposite of Fedora.

Seth

@GeorgeEdison I know.

mateo_salta

BeOS

George Edison

I did actually start one a while ago though - for fun of course.

launchpad.net/rssos

Here's the bootloader.

jrg

23:16

@FEichinger fedora just doesn't ship software that isn't 150% free.

FEichinger

Double-negatives are evil, my dear.

Evil, I say.

Jorge Castro

@jrg why is teaching people ubuntu a bad thing?

George Edison

@JorgeCastro I think we're all just getting carried away after all of the announcements today.

Jorge Castro

lol

FEichinger

@JorgeCastro Because we have collectively decided that it's definitely time to jump ship. :P

jrg

23:18

@JorgeCastro Basing a business off of an OS that is potentially heading towards the rocks might not be smart.

George Edison

First we find out we're getting a new display server, then we find out Unity's getting moved back to Qt, then etc...

Seth

Whats with the Spartans?

(May I ask?)

Jorge Castro

@GeorgeEdison I thought you liked Qt?

George Edison

I do! It's just so overwhelming.

Jorge Castro

@jrg uhhh, we're not heading towards rocks!

jrg

23:19

But finding out that canonical first ditched unity 2d (Qt), and then moved back (Qt) is just stupid.

2

Jorge Castro

@Seth it's almost March Madness, I am rooting for MSU (my alumn)

FEichinger

@JorgeCastro He just pretends to, so he can Qt's neck unnoticed.

George Edison

I don't understand why we couldn't use Wayland.

mateo_salta

I was getting excited about wayland...

Seth

@JorgeCastro Oh, yeah. Totally missed the sports connection.

George Edison

23:19

Qt5 has a working backend for Wayland.

(I've said that about 5 times today already.)

Jorge Castro

@GeorgeEdison there's like 5 pages of specs on the articles on why we're not using wayland

FEichinger

@GeorgeEdison Say it five more times! Come on, you can do it!

Jorge Castro

@jrg it's not stupid, it's realizing you picked the wrong thing and switching to the right thing

jrg

@JorgeCastro i don't know man, things keep flip-flopping. Canonical can't hope to get the open source community to follow them if they keep doing this.

Jorge Castro

it's not like my wife will notice if unity is Qt or nux

@jrg stupid would be having nux/compiz for the desktop and Qt for everything else

mateo_salta

23:21

maybe because they don't want users spinning their icons, and windows (and it looking good) too many features and such...

►

jrg

First it was X, then it was Wayland, now it's something else. Yes, there are technical reasons for not doing Wayland, but it's just like... make up your minds folks!

George Edison

@JorgeCastro Well, I am comforted by the fact that I will only need to maintain one codebase for my apps and have it run on whatever (PC, phone, tablet, etc.).

jrg

i totally agree that X is ancient and should be done away with. there are very few things in the tech world that are old enough to be my dad, and that is one of them. Time to put it out to pasture.

George Edison

That part I like.

Jorge Castro

@GeorgeEdison right, that's the point.

@jrg People are going to flame us no matter, what, we've been getting flamed for wanting to move to wayland this whole time, now we're not moving to wayland so now the other half gets to flame us. shrug.

RolandiXor

23:24

Hi all, I'm back.

Seth

@mateo_salta Wow, that's pretty nice.

George Edison

Well, don't panic. I'm not really jumping ship.

Jorge Castro

I know. :)

George Edison

Like I said earlier, we're all overwhelmed.

Jorge Castro

I need you to write me an awesome QML frontend to OpenStreetMap so I can have a map for my tablet pls.

George Edison

23:24

Once the dust settles, we can get back to work.

jrg

@JorgeCastro there are a lot of things going on here.

George Edison

@JorgeCastro Actually, I need to learn QML - I work almost exclusively with Desktop Qt.

But now's as good a time as any to learn QML.

Jorge Castro

yeah, change is hard, I get that

jrg

we don't/can't use ubuntu at work, other than our zentyal box, which doesn't count. you guys keep changing things, even on the server. it's just frustrating. :(

RolandiXor

@JorgeCastro you will be pleasantly surprised when you read my article on this. I actually like the move... but I have to be fair.

George Edison

23:26

@jrg Well... Ubuntu Server hasn't changed much.

jrg

@GeorgeEdison CUPS has.

George Edison

I wouldn't recommend running Ubuntu Desktop on a server.

Seth

> Which of the following is the most common cause for failure of coaxial cables?

> B. Gamma Rays.

jrg

(CUPS is my pet peeve, we spend 75% of the IT man-hours/month fighting CUPS)

Seth

O_o

Jorge Castro

23:27

what's the problem with cups?

George Edison

@jrg But then that's not an Ubuntu-specific problem, is it?

That's a CUPS problem.

jrg

@GeorgeEdison works fine on the debian stable CUPS. :P

ubuntu 12.04 shipped a broken version of cups.

Jorge Castro

@RolandiXor shrug, out of everything we've done Mir will be the least disruptive from a user perspective

George Edison

@jrg Maybe they use different build parameters it.

jrg

no, different versions.

Jorge Castro

23:28

what's the issue?

George Edison

@jrg Aren't we switching to a rolling release?

That should put an end to that problem (hopefully).

jrg

@GeorgeEdison no, it wouldn't solve it.

George Edison

Why not?

jrg

@JorgeCastro current version of cups chokes on large files, dislikes the brother and the HP.

RolandiXor

@JorgeCastro that is, if it comes off, and if developers have a smooth transitional experience.

George Edison

23:29

(I'm posting so many messages that I'm hitting the rate-limit timer here :P)

Octavian Damiean

Oh yea, in other news. LightDM is broken. :(

jrg

debian cups works fine, and we'll be deploying that VM here shortly. :\

RolandiXor

04-2014 is a very short time.

Jorge Castro

@RolandiXor we have like a whole year to pull it off!

RolandiXor

@OctavianDamiean this is news? O_o

Octavian Damiean

23:29

Forced me to switch to gdm for now.

RolandiXor

jk

Jorge Castro

@jrg are there bug reports I can reference?

George Edison

@jrg FWIW - CUPS works fine with my HP printer.

mateo_salta

@GeorgeEdison I haven't had much time to try compiling nitroshare, but I don't think I can compile qt from scratch on it, I'll try some more later this week.

jrg

@JorgeCastro nope. tracking those down is my task this week.

George Edison

23:30

@mateo_salta No problem. Are you using GCC or Clang?

Octavian Damiean

@JorgeCastro Whoa whoa! What's with your awesome new avatar? My name likes your avatar. :D

RolandiXor

@JorgeCastro if this were simply a new Unity, I'd say "Oh, okay", but a whole refresh of Unity + the underlying stack... needs a bit more time than that.

Jorge Castro

especially if it's fixed in debian's cups maybe we can slurp those fixes

RolandiXor

IMHO at least.

Jorge Castro

shrug, we'll see when it lands

RolandiXor

23:30

Yeah, I'm not bashing, just concerned about the timing.

returns to the caverns of Blender

George Edison

My biggest concern then becomes support from GPU vendors.

jrg

ubuntu ships with 1.6.1, debian has 1.4.something. debian works fine, apple broke cups. no way to import the old cups to ubuntu without serious dependency hell.

George Edison

The Noveau driver was a mess on this machine. I had to switch to the binary Nvidia driver.

Octavian Damiean

That's pretty much all one has to be concerned about really.

Jorge Castro

@GeorgeEdison the driver stuff is all kernel KMS stuff afaict.

mateo_salta

23:32

@GeorgeEdison I believe clang since that is what Qt5 came with all ready to go, and if I switch to a new gcc version, and try to make qt it complains about some things (I think they targeted the 4.2 version that came with mac), not sure why the C+11 flag didn't work.

George Edison

Okay.

jrg

so tl;dr: ubuntu shipped the new version, which is the right thing for 99% of the world. it's just that we're stuck with the aftermath on our end.

George Edison

23:45

cat /dev/random | od

Why is that so slow?

You'd think the system could generate random numbers a bit faster than that.

AbrahamVanHelpsing

move your mouse or watch some youtube

activity helps generate entropy

George Edison

Speaking of which, I just discovered the od command today. Very handy.

AbrahamVanHelpsing

it is

George Edison

Especially with the -x parameter.

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