Ask Ubuntu General Room - 2023-06-05

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1:30 AM

@vidarlo I think some of this regeneration could be Mod driven, although not necessarily just driven along by elected Mods. It is something that I will personally take on board during the strike and afterwards.

@BeastOfCaerbannog You would think that I would know this wouldn't you :)

In which case I should draft a COC for my grandson when he is playing Splitgate with me. For example: 1. Do not pursue your grandfather throughout the game to the exclusion of all other characters playing 2. Do not inform your mother each time you get your grandfather with a headshot

etc :)

1 hour later…

2:37 AM

@vidarlo If only the company could see that profit and Community can coexist

3:09 AM

Uneasily perhaps and with the occasional tension but still coexist

3 hours later…

Ask Ubuntu Meta

6:05 AM

3

Q: I'm going on a general moderation strike due to the new AI-content policy forced upon us by SE

Note: This post is not on behalf of the moderators of Ask Ubuntu, although they are welcome to strike as well. I'm also not a diamond moderator. Tl;dr I'm going on strike. Read the letter and rationale here Hi! I'm cocomac - I'm often here on Meta AU, but you may have also seen me over on MSE, w...

discussion announcement

6:50 AM

@andrew.46 I'm probably coming back to AU to a greater extent if someone attempts to revive that :)

@andrew.46 I frankly think they have to. Without community, you're left with what serverfault is; noone cares to wite long answers because noone votes, shitty questions may get an answer or be closed. While I'm active there' there's no point in asking questions anymore...

7:04 AM

@vidarlo Well, that would be very, very welcome :)

I guess even just using this chat room - even for tangentially on topic purposes is a good thing - create activity :)

@vidarlo Perhaps you could help me construct a COC to stop my grandson threashing me so badly at online games :)

nah

that's deserved

;)

But you should suggest a game of patience and finesse, such as OpenTTD, so he can learn to build a railway empire ;)

@vidarlo He is mostly interested in headshots...

hehe

You'll have to learn to hide

7:14 AM

As predicted I see that Charcoal has been stopped...

That was announced I believe?

I just hope as many non-diamond mods as possible join. The non-diamond ones are the community.

7:39 AM

@vidarlo Yes, and frustratingly I can see the first of the spam hitting AU

@vidarlo Me too, I see a total of about 270 people have signed up and this number will swell as word gets out...

Yes,, it will swell. But it's slower than I expected.

I have written this one:

0

Q: Stack Exchange general moderation strike: the effects on Ask Ubuntu

As of June 5th 2023 a general moderation strike is in place across the entire Stack Exchange Network. There are two key documents that should be read to understand the background and reasoning for this strike: Moderation strike: Stack Overflow, Inc. cannot consistently ignore, mistreat, and mali...

discussion announcement

Physics did an interesting move

And aprt from being available on the various chats, and withholding my Mod work I am done

@vidarlo I saw that one ":)

basically told SO to stick it

I wonder what the downside is. My guess would be that SO doesn't care about the smaller sites - as long as they're not a legal liability

AU may be big enough that someone cares, but sites such as serverfault and physics? Meh.

7:43 AM

@vidarlo The only interest is really SO itself

yeah, that's my feeling as well

AU is probably the biggest non-so?

@vidarlo Some surprises here: stackexchange.com/sites#traffic

That's traffic, not active users

sites such as Serverfault get a ton of google traffic, but almost no users.

Can be sorted

stackexchange.com/sites?view=list#users

Ask Ubuntu Meta

1

Q: Stack Exchange general moderation strike: the effects on Ask Ubuntu

As of June 5th 2023 a general moderation strike is in place across the entire Stack Exchange Network. There are two key documents that should be read to understand the background and reasoning for this strike: Moderation strike: Stack Overflow, Inc. cannot consistently ignore, mistreat, and mali...

discussion announcement

7:48 AM

Yep. The obvious thing is that SO is the big site by several orders of magnitude

Monster site

You are watching this unfold on Discord?

And can I say that I am so happy I had a good 12 months of working as an elected Mod before this all blew up? Would have been a nightmare if I was fresh and new

I don't do discord

@vidarlo Well, this was me as well before but the strike organisation was all done there so I have brought myself up to speed.

I don't like their software, TOS or style, so no thanks.

@vidarlo There is indeed little to like there :). However SE pretty much mandated that strike organisation would not be done on SE turf

Fair enough I guess

7:58 AM

Could've used IRC... :)

BeastOfCaerbannog

@vidarlo Couldn't agree more

@vidarlo Well, I still use irssi :)

Same here. xterm -fg wheat -bg black with irssi;)

Although I pronounce the name poorly...

BeastOfCaerbannog

@andrew.46 Hahaha! No worries! The Island is a weird/special room, and since you weren't much active in RotLD before becoming a mod you weren't expected to be familiar with its usage. ;)

8:03 AM

@BeastOfCaerbannog Really I was not the best choice for Mod, there were other people in the election who were a lot closer to AU and its workings

BeastOfCaerbannog

@andrew.46 On the contrary! I thought you were the best choice at the time and you've proved that you indeed were!

@BeastOfCaerbannog I have made a few errors but so far so good :).

BeastOfCaerbannog

I deeply appreciate your work as a mod and your stance at the recent SE events!

@andrew.46 Who doesn't make errors?

@BeastOfCaerbannog Well @Zanna is practically perfect if I can quote from Mary Poppins :)

Oh it tooks only a little spamming here and the chat is alive again. :D

For record I make a joke.

8:10 AM

@nobody :)

@BeastOfCaerbannog agreed

BeastOfCaerbannog

@andrew.46 Oh, but @Zanna is bot, haven't you heard?

@andrew.46 omg I'm such a disaster area, can barely manage to feed myself these days XD

@BeastOfCaerbannog That makes a lot of sense :)

@Zanna Well now that I don't have to deal with Keto Gummy spam I can finally deal with my craving for Gummy Bears

BeastOfCaerbannog

@nobody Hahaha, I guess that with the strike we can spend more time chatting :)

8:12 AM

@andrew.46 hahaha enjoy

@BeastOfCaerbannog woohoo

here's to chatting while the site burns

5

wait what I totally didn't mean that

BeastOfCaerbannog

Hahahahahahaah

sometimes a strike brings people closer together again.

4

Hmmm.... I might star that one

@Zanna The orchestra plays while she sinks?

Like on the titanic

8:26 AM

@vidarlo I hope this disruption will bring about a positive result

I hope so too

The SO model works for technical matters, so it would be sad if it goes down in flames

@vidarlo Levente's answer to terdon's question makes the same reference

it has been a privilege playing with you tonight

BeastOfCaerbannog

8:46 AM

user image

Interesting to see that all questions posted in the last 3 hours have zero votes and answers

I'm wondering for how long that will last

@BeastOfCaerbannog How do you interpret that?

Spam surviving for an hour++ on serverfault

BeastOfCaerbannog

@andrew.46 I think it's related to the strike and to cocomac's post, which despite the fact that it can't be featured, is visible as a hot meta post

295 signatures

BeastOfCaerbannog

8:51 AM

@BeastOfCaerbannog It could also be unrelated and be the result of pure luck (it just happened to be this way when I took the screenshot), and my interpretation could be biased

@BeastOfCaerbannog I have left a message on the Mod chat room, not everybody is striking so my colleagues might be happy to rearrange the 'featured' tags

BeastOfCaerbannog

@BeastOfCaerbannog If this trend persists for the next couple of hours, then we could be more confident that this is the result of conscious decision of the community members to abstain from the moderation tasks.

9:10 AM

Huh, I see the same pattern on SO. At least o the first few pages, no questions have answers

Of course, this is SO, so the first few pages are the past few minutes so it might not mean much.

I'm terdon, by the way. Stupid caching...

Using my sock to avoid moderating by mistake.

@Kitsos Good idea...

Muscle memory is hard to control :)

BeastOfCaerbannog

@Kitsos Hahaha, I love the name! :P

Oh right yes, you would recognize it :)

Footballer? I had to google it

BeastOfCaerbannog

Haha, yeah. When you joined the room I was like: who's that Greek that never joined before?

9:19 AM

@andrew.46 Nah, just a given name but not one you're likely to actually see these days, so it's a bit funny

What australians would call soccer :)

BeastOfCaerbannog

Then I read your profile's description

@Kitsos I guess you meant to tag @andrew.46 here

@andrew.46 They would? I thought only the US called it soccer because of American football.

@BeastOfCaerbannog yep, thanks

BeastOfCaerbannog

;)

@Kitsos The powers that be (financial guys) want Australians to call soccer football but we have Rugby League, rugby union and AFL that are all 'football'

9:26 AM

Ah really? You guys call rugby football? Didn't know

I call it football soccer anyway, so for me it's normal :)

Well, I don't actually follow any of it :)

Me neither. I avoid it like the plague, actually.

Journeyman Geek

@Kitsos Aussie rules uhhh is a different beast

Wait y'all call normal rugby football?

Rugby Union?

Or Rugby League :)

Both football

9:44 AM

@BeastOfCaerbannog Some answers sneaking through :)

user image

sigh... hurts to see, really

Indeed :)

@JourneymanGeek and @Kitsos Is there a limit that you know of to the number of 'featured' tags from Meta?

I dimly remember a number limit

Yes

um... 3? something like that

meta.serverfault.com/posts/9876/revisions

interesting move

Not yet been de-featured on AU tho

@vidarlo We have a total of 4 with featured tag but only the 2 olders ones visible

I love this one:

78

Q: Physics.SE remains a site by humans, for humans

We, the moderators of physics.SE, are deeply concerned about the recently announced "network policy" regarding computer-generated content on the SE network, which effectively attempts to forbid moderators from issuing suspensions or deleting posts for the undisclosed usage of computer-generated c...

discussion featured questions answers policy

9:58 AM

Hehe, yep, that one is nice - simply ignore

@BeastOfCaerbannog yup

Blushes

@Zanna You are right about the 'featured' tags of course. What do you think about the number limit idea?

sorry, can you break that down for me? :]

@Zanna We have 4 posts on Meta with a 'featured' tag: 2 older ones and 2 newer ones. I suspect there is actually a limit on the number of these that will feature on the front page (perhaps 2). I think perhaps lose the 2 older ones and keep the 2 newer ones. But CMs are going around removing wjat they believe are strike related tags as well :(

@vidarlo Apparently it was a mistake. I mentioned it in the TL and was told the staff member who did that had many tabs open and acted on the wrong one. Which, to be fair, can happen to anyone. It's been undone and re-featured now.

10:06 AM

@terdononstrike Weren't you a footballer a minute ago??

@terdononstrike ah, ok.

terdon on strike

55 mins ago, by Kitsos

I'm terdon, by the way. Stupid caching...

I guess the cache caught up with the name change.

Bugger: wrong again: we have 3 in place now and the 'Hot Meta' has been subsumed

Now just to get rid of the tone-deaf: We are graduating the updated button styling for vote arrows

@terdononstrike meta.serverfault.com/questions/9883/labor-action-notice is still de-featured, and appears deliberate...

terdon on strike

Oh yes, they have explicitly told us they'll unfeature ay post mentioning the strike itself. But the SF one didn't mention the strike which is why it was so weird.

10:10 AM

lol

the strike is very relevant for users to see what is going on

so can't understand why they choose to de-feature that. Especially as that was a neutral post informing about it

@vidarlo They are trying to burn away any sense of being good guys?

terdon on strike

@vidarlo it was a mistake, apparently. It's been re-featured now by the same person who unfeatured it.

@andrew.46 Only reason I can see

Anyways, too much drama for my taste... time for sleep for me...

Good night

10:15 AM

nice dreams

Journeyman Geek

@andrew.46 3

10:33 AM

@andrew.46 only 2 show up for me, but maybe they rotate

BeastOfCaerbannog

I can see 3

user image

screen size??

oh I can see three now... takes a while for them to show up

idk folks, whadya think? drop that one for now?

we can always feature them again if they get unfeatured

BeastOfCaerbannog

Yeah, it's no longer relevant too.

whack-a-mole

@BeastOfCaerbannog okay

thunderstorm here

pathetic fallacy haha

my laundry got wet... I collected it... then the rain stopped

BeastOfCaerbannog

Hahaha, go hang the clothes again to restart the thunderstorm

10:40 AM

good idea :)

it's been 40 degrees plus for 4 weeks

a bit of rain is a great relief

Celsius that is

@vidarlo 👀👀👀

@RandomPerson ?

@vidarlo I didn't expect the staff to do this.

I have been thinking since quite some time if I should join the strike. If SE staff are gonna remove featured tags in our meta, I think I'll join the strike.

@RandomPerson It seems they are intent on "de-escalating" the conflict, following a script they found outside Kremlin...

@RandomPerson They have not yet done that on AU Meta

ok.

10:53 AM

@RandomPerson For my part it's about communities handling moderation - which has been the principle. Community policy has been made - within the frames of SE - through discussion on meta.

this change is large, not discussed, and as far as I can tell been poorly handled - and forced upon communities

I've not been active on AU lately... so I'm not really sure about the impact of generative AI answers on AU.

Most AI answers I've noticed has been bullshit answers that just reiterate the question without answering it

Applies both to AU and others

oh

Others have been totally missing the point

or even straight up fictional

terdon on strike

11:09 AM

@RandomPerson The AI issue is just the tip of the iceberg. Yes, we have a problem with AI, but we have an even bigger problem with the company (SE) imposing policy that goes against site consensus, breaking their promises, and telling mods one thing in public and something else in private. See meta.stackexchange.com/q/389811/241717 for more detail.

4

I see. But to get a better picture of the situation, I wish non mods can see the policy shared to mods on Teams but I do understand that mods can't leak it due to rules.

terdon on strike

Precisely

All we could do is pressurise the company to make the policy, shared to mods, public.

and most of the moderation is done by community

20 minute old spam with 0 flags

something is happening

BeastOfCaerbannog

11:28 AM

Huh? Can you still load the open letter? I see this:

user image

terdon on strike

@vidarlo remember that smokey is down (there was planned maintenance anyway, but charcoal has joined the strike so it won't be coming back up soon)

@BeastOfCaerbannog works fine for me

@terdononstrike I know :) That's probably gonna be the most visible impact of it

Loads fine for me

BeastOfCaerbannog

Hmmm... It's only me it seems

terdon on strike

And I'm in Athens at the moment, so it shouldn't be a country issue

@BeastOfCaerbannog works fine for me

11:35 AM

Oh greece I wish I could visit it again.

terdon on strike

It's a great place to visit. Less great if you have to live there and deal with the bureaucracy.

I see.

terdon on strike

(Oh, I am Greek by the way, that's not just prejudice :) )

Or, at least, it's prejudice born of experience :P

A part of my family lives in greece. I'm half greek.

terdon on strike

Oh? So am I! Half, I mean, my Dad's American and my Mom's Greek, but I was born and raised in Greece.

Do you speak Greek?

11:44 AM

Mother also greek father was german born and raised in germany. No @terdononstrike

terdon on strike

Ah, that's a shame. The greatest gift my parents gave me was raising me bilingual. Getting two languages for free is really useful. Admittedly, of the two, English is more helpful.

For some reason I do not know I did not came after my birth to my parents.

at once.

@terdononstrike Knowing many languages is very useful, especially, in countries where there are many languages.

terdon on strike

It is, yes.

11:59 AM

Oh I know what I do I build a robot for AI and use it as a translator.

terdon on strike

This whole AI thing just makes me think of the vulgar Greek (OK, Turkish, but used in Greek) saying "AI sichtir".

BeastOfCaerbannog

Hahahaha

2 hours later…

1:46 PM

@BeastOfCaerbannog https instead of http. might not have an http -> https redirect

BeastOfCaerbannog

@ThomasWard It works for me too now. Must have been due to some change in the open letter website, because now all signatures are shown as being made on June 5, whereas before they were from June 2 to June 5.

@andrew.46 I'm contemplating forgoing my reservations against discord for the time being. Could you tell me where to find the planning of this strike on discord?

BeastOfCaerbannog

The most recent AU questions right now:

user image

AU has enough users that it can handle spam

terdon on strike

Been there for half an hour already

Looks like folks are downvoting instead of flagging

BeastOfCaerbannog

1:59 PM

Some may not have flagging privileges

yes

many users are not used to flagging

and for such spam Charcoal essentially ensured a single manual spam flag was enough

BeastOfCaerbannog

@BeastOfCaerbannog Or can anyone flag? I don't remember

LOL

askubuntu.com/questions/1470740/…

BeastOfCaerbannog

Hahahahaahaha

Staff is handling spam

user image

BeastOfCaerbannog

2:01 PM

Nice allocation of workforce

For those of you who can't see deleted

this is gonna go down really well

at least we know they're hellbent on not acknowledging this.

user image

Seems to work quite well, doesn't it?

@BeastOfCaerbannog well they kind of have to while the entire volunteer mod force on most sites go away :P

BeastOfCaerbannog

@ThomasWard Yup

@vidarlo Seems like the Kumar family works hard today

@BeastOfCaerbannog 😅😅😅

What amazes me most is that so far I've not seen anyone leaking the policy proposed to mods in private. The professionalism of not releasing that is astonishing.

2:32 PM

@BeastOfCaerbannog 15 points to flag, 125 to downvote

BeastOfCaerbannog

@Zanna Hmmm...

3:09 PM

Really Kumar? Yes, really... 😂😂

-2

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Amazing to see how well Smokedetector works, now that it's visible how it goes when it's offline. 😬😬😬

BeastOfCaerbannog

3:25 PM

@ArturMeinild omg

@ArturMeinild True

Ask Ubuntu Meta

0

Q: How can I scrape my own content efficiently?

All the answers that I published here demanded many hours of invested time, and I figured that if I wanted to carry out many of those actions today, I would need reminders about exact details. Until now, I could always return to my AskUbuntu account for this purpose, and find the info here. Perha...

4 hours later…

7:11 PM

Wow, everything is no votes and no answers. Looks like SE staff have drawn the line at editing, voting and answers. A ghost town on AU...

7:38 PM

It shows the importance of the communities being in control of the community

It's pretty much a ghost town on SO as well

and that's gonna be the real hit

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