You guys, I think everyone should know about Community Promotion Ads, even if it's just about their existence, because it's fantastic that this thing even exists: meta.gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/983/…

That is all. :)

oh wow, I didn't know about compohub

Is anyone familar with Prim's Algorithim?

Woa... it was first developed in 1930. :)

hey guys guess what, gonna stop being lazy and work on my game once more

good :)

and now I am trying to fix a problem that I skipped a looooong time ago

getting the preloader to work...

@Madcowe What does the preloader do, exactly?

the problem is, the tutorial I was following was based on flash CS3.0

but people from CS5 and up wouldn't see it

instead of the preloader, they would just get like a gray screen and 5 dots appearing

Oh, are you using Flash/AS?

@ShotgunNinja yea, AS3.0, now I am watching the tutorial again and see if I can fix it

@Madcowe AS3 is terrible, and I feel bad for you.

I had to do a Flex project for Adobe AIR, for controlling an industrial heat-treatment machine.

@ShotgunNinja well but still, I have started this game and now I feel like I should finish it at least

Protip: Don't list Flash as one of your strong points on a resume.

@ShotgunNinja thanks a lot for that tip

but it shouldnt hurt to say that I know it right?

meh

The problem with Flash is, no one who actually used to use it really bothers with it anymore.

There are better technologies all over the place, and it's only really good for mocking up fancy UIs.

oh so... saying that I know flash is like saying "I've moved on" and saying "I'm good with flash" is like saying "I don't really know much about programming"?

I was hired onto a project where there was already a half-working Flash application, and told to fix it.

Last I heard, Ubisoft Montreal has a tech that allows them to build UIs in flash, and run them "natively" in the game

Nah, if you manage to be good with Flash, you have my respect.

saved them the bother of supporting an editor, though Flash has a goofy editor

@ShotgunNinja because it's tricky or...

@Almo I've heard of that as well... but that's probably more along the lines of Flash Catalyst applications.

I didn't think it was. I was there when they finished it up and started using it in production

@Madcowe Because it's obnoxious to get stuff working with the pure event-driven architecture.

@ShotgunNinja any recommendation on what I should program after this?

program something you want to program

easier to get it done that way

@Madcowe Stay away from anything using the filesystem from Adobe AIR.

Far, far away.

Event-driven file loading is an absolute PITA.

same thing as flash?

We're probably going to use AIR for our multiplatform game coming up

@Almo First things first: Build a file loading layer.

not up to me; it's the other programmer dealing with it

i make all my protos in pure Obj-C with Cocos2D

Both of you are crazy, lol

But I guess, whatever works.

Given the choice between Obj-C and AS3, I'd still take AS3.

I can whip out an entirely new game and have it reasonably tuned in about a day or two with it

pastebin.com/jzF02yDm

Fair enough.

this is my current code

for the preloader part

Are you using CS3, or the newer stuff?

It's all about what you know how to use. Over the course of my iOS development, I've come to understand the NextStep way of building APIs, so it's pretty easy to bring in new elements now.

pastebin.com/ijL0fEya

and this is the code from the tutorial guy

his files do work with the preloader, mine do not

LoL time before I get back to working on my colorblind menu. talk to you guys later :)

cya :)

have fun, kick ass

now if there is nothing wrong with the codes... it has to be with how I set up the objects

yeah, there are some odd load-ordering dependencies with Flash/AS3

So, which editor for Flash are you using?

That actually makes a lot of difference.

I'm using flash CS6 atm

this time I get no errors but the preloader doesnt show up

its just a simple % and a text saying "Loaded"

agh, I want to say that there's a step being skipped here...

know what's wrong?

I also have a loading progress code

Like, instead of setting everything up in the constructor, you have to register for and respond to an event on initialization or something.

But it's been a while since I've futzed with Flash code.

I think that flash might be overriding my preloader over it's own definitions (if that even makes sense)

I don't this it is executing any of my code before everything loads

I put a trace() on the progress made function, and I get nothing in the output

just the generic flash "preloader" which is just 5 dots

yea, I now put the Loading text right on the first frame and (obviously) nothing happened

Hmmm

Yeah, I think they changed the Flash runtime so the preloader works differently...

@ShotgunNinja yea... a lot of tips on the site were to export the things on frame 2

the problem is, I don't think that would let me export the loader on frame 1

Okay, then maybe there's some sort of function, setting, or command to assign some frame as the preloader frame or something...

@Almo Air/Flex is pretty neat stuff to work with

I never really worried that much about the preloader when I worked on AIR.

@ShotgunNinja thought about that, but dont know anything about that, at least not yet

@ToddersLegrande It is, actually, but it's bogged down by the disgusting pile of crap that is AS3.

@Madcowe Welp, to the Internet with you, then.

thats what it looks like xD

That is for sure. I dabbled with flex a bit to have a JAVA back end though (still probably not the best choice but very cool!)

@ToddersLegrande Yeah, the stuff I did was Flex/AS3 with a C# backend, through an XmlSocket connection to localhost.

The C# interfaced with the hardware control libraries that we were using to run an industrial induction heat-treatment machine.

Awesome

No. No it wasn't.

lol

The entire thing was a hack, to get the failed prototype-turned-final-product to actually work.

Well thats too bad

I think flex has / had a lot of desktop application potential. Its unfortunate your scenario didn't work out well

The scenario didn't work out well because my boss at the time was an arrogant jackass.

Sounds familiar...

I got the project back on its feet, found another better-paying job doing web development, and quit.\

Now I work for a sheet music publishing company, maintaining their websites.

It's a nice, easy, well-paced job.

may I ask more or less what does one need to know for web development?

Oh nice

@Madcowe - HTML, JavaScript, and CSS for starters

@Madcowe Databases, Linux servers, some form of server-side programming, and HTML/JS/CSS.

From there most people specialize in one or two server side technologies

Knowing a thing or two about how browsers work is a must as well.

Or at the very least, a solid understanding in a big CMS

and the technologies it uses

hm I know half of those so

html CSS and javascript, the basics at least

From an open source perspective, you would want to look into running a LAMP server (Linux, Apache, MySQL, PHP) as that, at least used to be, quite prevalent. Knowing JavaScript you may consider looking into node.js for the web server (would replace Apache in a LAMP setup)

@Madcowe A brain stem.

From that description its really hard to say. To me it sounds like they might want you to utilize LoL web services but I can't be certain

This guy clearly has no idea what he wants, and 400 dollars for a web dev job is terrible.

Yep

yea... I did PM them as I am not sure as well

up to 400.... :/

I'll do "brochure ware" for friends for about $250. That means its basically pure html/css, no fancy javascript, and they provide the graphics and most of the site design

If a company is offering you small pay for a poorly-defined project description, then it's not worth finding out what teenager posted the job.

If I have to do anything more complicated than that the price will skyrocket

$400 for that is way underpaid

And thats the friends and family discount

For someone professionally it would be much more

well I'm still uncertain firstly because it would be my first "job" of this kind, and also because I dont even know what he wants

Mostly because web development, just like all development, is not a one-time thing.

It's not worth taking a first job if it's shit.

just my opinion.

thanks for the oppinion guys

Good luck with whatever you decide to do on it. :)

No problem, man.

@Madcowe you could certainly try to find out more, but don't agree to anything until you can determine if you can even do it, and within a reasonable amount of time. The consensus is this is likely a nightmare for anyone though :)

At least for $400

Alot of people who dont understand programming undervalue the work that is needed to set things up and maintain it

@RobCurr same thing for art. I recently read up on some peoples experiences with contracting artists and WOW.

I honestly had no idea how expensive it could be

another tip someone gave me was to create a minecraft server, and that could bring in some cash from donations and such if one is good at it

That's why I do alot of my own art... I'm too cheap

@Madcowe if you've got hardware and a static IP to do that (or fancy rerouting that some services offer) - setting up a MineCraft server with some decent mods is pretty painless

@RobCurr I did that too on my game... that's why I can hardly look at it xD

Might take you a few days to get all the mods set up and working how you want but outside of that its download the files and run the executable (plus network setup to make it accessible online)

@ToddersLegrande yea, trying to look into it now, sent a message to the person for tips since he/she already does it

@Madcowe Hah! Yah I am fortunate to be a decent artist. It takes me 10x longer to make stuff but it looks pretty nice at least. The only reason I would hire and artist is if I was in a crunch or needed a schwack of content produced

we forked $3k for the art in The Greatest Heist. Honestly, I think that was undercharged.

She did a great job on it

I've been trying to practice art recently. I can get very simple terrain look "good enough" for me to be happy during development. Characters on the other hand... oh god. :(

dont know it almo, what is it?

so nice to be back in my Obj-C codebase

it's on the google chrome app store

or whatever it's called

@ToddersLegrande Yes, characters are a weakness of mine too :)

See, the thing is, I'm a decent enough artist (see: my gravatar), but I'm a way better programmer.

I figure if I actually make any decent coin on my game I can always go and hire an artist then to tweak my old stuff and create some new content.

decent = more than paying for my coffee once a week

I've got a good long night to game dev tonight since the Mrs. is out of town. I'm pretty excited for it.

@ToddersLegrande hehehehhehehehehheheheh xD

Amusing tho... some wives would be like omg I'm going out of town I hope my man doesn't go do something wild.... and she's like nah... hes a programmer.

hhahaha

In case anyone enjoyed Bit Trip Runner (I know I did!) Bit Trip Runner 2 is even more amazing.

@ToddersLegrande how much more amazing?

Can one really quantify amazingness?

Anyway... the graphics update looks really good even though its just simple 3D instead of 2D. It feels very fresh.

SSX Tricky was 62% less amazing than SSX.

And for some reason... it feels a lot easier on the eyes to me

@Almo lets not get into that again :P

nice, they actually offered 500 copies of bit trip runner while people waited for bit trip runner 2

Yeah I got a copy of that. Had it for the Wii already but I wanted Runner 2 so I was like... what the hell!

Might have to get a copy for the Xbox

Warcraft II was 12% less amazing than it could have been, due to ships and oil being annoying.

Runner 2 also has some replayability with different paths that are more challenging which consequently will sometimes offer more points or lead you to unlockable stuff. As of right now I've only unlocked different characters and costumes. Don't know if there is more than that.

@ToddersLegrande are all those paths accessible from the start? or do you need to reach a certain level to gain a power up and then go back to the previous leves?

Some paths are "locked" which require you to find keys in the level first... I haven't played enough to know if you have to get the key and unlock the lock all in the same run or not... but the caveat is that keys aren't attainable until you unlock something in a later level first (I think)

I've only played through the first world so I can only make assumptions based on one time through

ah ok then

natureofcode.com/book - just took a look at the Vectors chapter and this looks like an amazing resource for anyone getting into game programming.

@ToddersLegrande Looks interesting. Probably more than a few things in there that I will use sometime in the future.

hey guys, I want to know your oppinion on something...

first of all, you guys know castlevania right?

I have a tendendcy to reinvent the wheel when it comes to making algorithms to solve things.

@Madcowe my opinion on this is that i know it

@Madcowe Yeah.

lol ok then, so lately I was thinking about making a game like that, with a map, monsters that respawn when you leave and enter the room, bosses, items, etc etc etc

how ambicious do you think that is?

and what should I use to program it?

without slopes it easy :)

@Kikaimaru Yeah, the addition of slopes makes it far, far more challenging. Still possible, but there's more mathematics involved to make sure you don't go out-of-bounds.

@Kikaimaru are slopes really that bad?

and any language will do, just download some tilemap maker, make tilemap, use language that you know to display it, then add monster with animations, and its finished

@Madcowe they complicate stuff and are not nescessary, you didnt have slopes in prehistoric and it was fun :)

Slopes affect not only the complexity of art assets, but also prevent use of tiled environments and force you to do vector collision calculations.

slopes cause a lot of issues

@RobCurr I'm definitely going to be using it to get better at things like Vector math, maybe some physics, etc.

without slopes, your collision is as simple as if (tileMap.collisionLayer[x,y] == true) you cannot move there, so dont increment position (or velocity vector)

slopes/stairs, basically all the same right?

@Kikaimaru With slopes, you have to pull floating-point math or use subpixel-precision calculations.

oh yeah, super mario didnt have that either and it was an awesome game

@Madcowe yes (45 degree slopes and stairs)

@Kikaimaru 45-degree slopes are easier.

sure, but still not necessary :)

IF I did include any kind of slopes they might only be stairs

However, they still used subpixel math in Super Mario World in order to get everything right.

I've thought about slopes a fair amount and can think of a few ways I'd implement them. Haven't really tested anything though

45º I mean

@Madcowe start with displaying map :) and stuff what i said, without slopes, you can add stuff like that later :)

Games like Mega Man X, and Super Castlevania, incorporated slopes to varying degrees.

@Madcowe this is an interesting read that you might find useful - higherorderfun.com/blog/2012/05/20/…

@Kikaimaru with that do you mean creating the layout of the game? I would like to ask about mini-maps later too

@ToddersLegrande awesome, it even explains slopes

btw dont add moving platforms, ladders either (at least not from beggining)

@Kikaimaru platforms as in, you can jump on the from below, and drop down?

and there is this thing

@Madcowe well thats relatively easy

@Kikaimaru oh, just noticed the "moving" part now

I read the other day that microsoft is uhm...

@Madcowe i edited the message :)

"ditching" xna or something

@Kikaimaru that makes sense xD

Yeah, XNA is now becoming MonoGame.

I assume that the thing about moving platforms would be the friction and all that, right?

@Madcowe it is, but that doesnt matter, you can use monogame instead or slimdx for more "lower level" stuff

so xna is still a good game making program?

@Madcowe without moving platforms, you are just checking into big boolean array, with moving platforms, you need to go through some collection check where the platform is (probably rectangle vs rectangle) and react in some way

@Madcowe we did Miner Wars in it

@Kikaimaru hm yeah... one day I'll look into it then

The structuring of a game's collision, rendering, and events systems has always enthralled me.

@Kikaimaru yea I saw it on steam, but had no idea anyone from here made it and that it was in xna x)

@Madcowe also magicka, bastion, terraria i guess and some other stuff are in xna. So as you can see it works :)

@Kikaimaru Oh, you worked on Miner Wars? A good friend of mine plays that religiously.

@Kikaimaru I just didnt play bastion but know it :P

in that case, it looks like if I really put some effort into it I could make something great

@ShotgunNinja yep i did

I met the guy who made Antichamber, way back at E3 in 2010... that's like the only major one-man game developer I know personally.

Sucks living in Wisconsin, nothing is here for game development.

@ShotgunNinja you and I gotta go indie man :P

@ToddersLegrande Hell yeah. Let me finish up school, should be done by November.

yeah go indie! join opensource mmorpg development with grindfest! github.com/Kikaimaru/GrindFest !!

mind if I join you guys in some way? xD

@Kikaimaru in... typescript?

@ShotgunNinja yes, its like javascript but not evil

We gotta have a big collab session with the regulars from GD.SE, and just make an awesome game.

@Kikaimaru Oh, okay, cool. I'll look into it.

Actually, I've heard of TypeScript before, from some guys in the SO C# chat.

I'd like to work on something with you guys because I would firstly gain experience, and secondly motivation to work on something

learn typescript and work on grindfest, that sounds like a good idea

cool beans.

you see? its very cool and all of you want to work on it!

the grass is making my eyes hurt :D

I prefer games with clothing.

I remember when that was just a simple small square with slimes

Call me old fashioned.

xD

@ToddersLegrande didnt have time to add clothing, to much time spent on fluffy bunnies, oldfashioned.

lol

first version, until i found there are no isometric tilesets that i could steal :)

brb guys, gonna play darksiders so my computer overheats and warms up my mini-pizzas :3

well i have to go :)

@Kikaimaru contact me later... I'll see if I can do something on the game xD

@Madcowe I think @Kikaimaru's game is pretty much all JavaScript (using TypeScript) and node.js so you might want to buddy up with him too if you want to get into web development

might be a good idea, right now I'm still exploring and looking to expand my skills

His open source game might be a good place to start if you are good at breaking down existing code

So I noticed Monogame mentioned earlier. Is anyone actually on that has been using it and writing there own 3d effects for it?

I can't say I've heard anyone mention that they have

I honestly couldn't name someone who actively has used monogame. Just a few of us who have investigated it.

A quick question, what is delta?

delta time?

change in time

Why is it used in gaming/

It seems everything is timed by it

if you know that something moves at 10 units a second

and you know its been .75 seconds since the last frame

you know to move 7.5 units

This keeps your game updates consistent regardless of frame rate

Drawing and other updates dont always happen at regular intervals so if you dont incorporate that then animations will play slow/fast and certain calculations you are making wont perform as expected

Oh ok

thanks :)

Okay, I have a question too. I'm working on a map generator for a 2D dungeon, and I'm getting to the part where I place doors. I have the logic pretty much figured out, but I need to figure out whether or not a given door will be useless, i.e. if the player can just walk around it.

Actually I am using monogame for my W8 version. Most of it has been pretty good but it is missing a bunch of functionality that I really want. TextureCube support being one of them.

RNG

Here's an example of the issue: i.imgur.com/gO7mOWk.png

'.' is floor and '#' is wall, and the brown '+' is the door. Obviously, it's not blocking the passageway completely.

I can see that, but how can I get the computer to recognize this situation?

That image made me stressed.

Guess roguelikes aren't your thing? lol

Oh

In the last map game I did I wrote a recursive routine to handle stuff like that

Recursive routine? How'd you do that?

@ElliotBonneville I would sit down and think about why that is not a valid door location in english... convert that into pseudocode (if it helps you) and then write code / rules based on that.

Depends on the language you are using

Oh, Javascript.

Hmmm... not that familiar with the limitations of javascript. Probably not the best approach from what I know tho.

Here's a really cool tip for you guys. If you're stuck with a tight programming problem, just walk away from the game and do something else and your subconscious will make the most perfect efficient answer just appear into your head.

works everytime

@ShaunWild Yeah that works for me too.

Always happens to me during school, when I get home I just fix all of the problems with my games xD

@ToddersLegrande: Well, that's simple. It's in a corner with a diagonal next to it the player can use to get by. The issue is finding doors with diagonal floor tiles next to them...

Freaks my wife out...I'll suddenly say Aha...

@ElliotBonneville Yes but I think he's asking from an AI perspective so that the mob wont go there if it knows it cant get through. Am I right?

Ack nevermind. Getting lost in the conversation about whos asking what ....

Hehe yeah.

AI comes later, but I don't think that'll be an issue.

I think the rule is "If the tile doesn't have a wall above and below OR left and right, then it's not a valid door tile, don't place a door".

That should eliminate the nasty useless-door behavior I'm getting.

Oh I see what you mean now

Yeah that sounds correct

That's exactly what I meant

If that rule fails, don't put a door there :)

That did the trick--my doors now serve a purpose! :o

Huzzah!

@ToddersLegrande thats sadly the downside that the code can be confusing in someplaces, i guess i will have to write documentation somewhere :)

seriously wtf

I came to italy and we have a wireless here, but whenever it feels like it, my computer will just lose access to the internet

if I refresh or type the url or something, it doesnt even load and instantly says that it cant load

=>

@Kikaimaru I'll work on that...

@Madcowe Maybe something's getting lost in translation?

@ShotgunNinja dont know, I brought a wireless antenna actually with me, and sometimes if I am connected with one and it happens, I connect with the other (either my PC's wi-fi or the antenna) I can access the internet though

but many times even if I'm with both it fails

@Madcowe I was making a language joke, but whatever.

As in, translation from it to en-us and vice-versa...

yea I know xD

but still troubled by it

@Madcowe I had problems like that this last year. New router fixed the problem

I found that every so often my wireless just stopped communicating with the router. Pings to the router would fail.

Without any expensive equipment I ruled out most chances of interference because there was nothing in the immediate vicinity that could have been causing problems including no other wireless networks in the area. So any sort of interference would have had to travel pretty far from neighbors or something else. So instead of buying equipment to test for interference further I just got a new router and the problem thankfully disappeared

oh man, LoL for Mac:

hmm, can anyone recommend a turn based rpg (something like final fantasy) with a good combat system interface?

Heroes of Might and Magic?

interesting. I'm planning to not allow players to move on screen however, just kind of give them the standard attack/magic/defend/item/run abilities

got my mac version of LoL patched up

trying it now

been using iLoL which works well enough

@BenjaminDangerJohnson almost any jrpg? :)

no, not just any jrpg.

yes, but I am looking for exceptional examples

some have horrible interfaces

@BenjaminDangerJohnson Well, HOMM has that too

something you see and just litterally shit yourself for good and informative the interface is

@BenjaminDangerJohnson as exception from what?

in Disciples you cant move units

that doesn't sound like an RPG to me. They usually have arcane interfaces

@JohnMcDonald I took a peek at screen captures, it looks like it is focused on positioning and such

or the gameplay is so over-simplified, there's not much to interface

exceptional like, simplistic yet informative, interesting camera tricks, nice animations, etc.

@BenjaminDangerJohnson Oh yeah, you're right. When you said "not allow to people to move" earlier, I was thinking on the world

i can't think of an RPG that really meets these qualifications, though I really haven't played a whole ton of them.

breath of fire IV is nice

@JohnMcDonald yeah this is more like Final Fantasy, where you move in the world, but when you enter combat you are in a fixed location

most recent good interface I've seen is LoL

very nice in a lot of subtle ways

but that's not really relevant to what you're looking for

yes, I've heard good things about League of Legends, but it's more a an RTS from what i can gather

it is

I remember Golden Sun and Final Fantasy 7 being nice interfaces, but I just wanted to poll some other peoples opinions

@BenjaminDangerJohnson what is this discussion about? lol is not turn based at all :)

Breath of Fire does look like a promising example

in terms of animation effects that is

video i send you is really overkill with the animations, its a last battle so you have all that fancy skills with custom animations :)

yeah but I do enjoy that

it makes the game more fun to look at

i dont, it waste too much time

well, I would allow them to be skipped

its fun to see few times, but hten its just gets boring

I definitely agree that that can get annoying after the first hour of gameplay

they allow it in breath of fire, but skip button is visible after few seconds, and it still a lot :)

yeah I would personally just skip to the last couple animation frames, granted that would make the player kind of warp around

anyway, any other examples of well liked Turnbased RPGs that have nice friendly interfaces?

Well I guess Breath of Fire will have to do for now. Hopefully I can get a good interface going if I mix Golden Sun, Breath of Fire, and Final Fantasy 7 together

@BenjaminDangerJohnson FF7's interface was really nice for being an original Playstation title.

However, I always found it to be a bit plain and clunky, far more oriented to the PS1's direction pad than to a conventional analog joystick controller or standard keyboard.

If someone wants to double check and make sure I'm not overlooking something...

Hey Todders

Hey!

So I was just putting together this snazzy drawing for you to help explain my point

So yeah maybe i am not explaining it in the right way, would you like to look at the whole solution and maybe you can see it