Game Development

thelinuxlich

19:00

@snake5 just toying, but there are people using Artemis C# in commercial games and contests.

snake5

I'd like to see how those games compare to others

Jimmy

why does it matter? what best for them isn't necessarily the best for others

thelinuxlich

Well, most of them like workflow. As for performance, I don't have a benchmark but I can say we do a lot of work on speed

Also providing builtin pools and multithreaded systems

snake5

@Jimmy lol, this is ridiculous that I even have to explain it - it matters because it determines whether these "systems" are useful

Jimmy

obviously they are useful to some people

I don't see why it's worth your effort to be trying to convince them otherwise

snake5

19:03

@Jimmy yeah, expired food is useful to some people true, by your logic it's just fine then, right?

@Jimmy I just want to see some changes

thelinuxlich

lol, snake5 is trolling :P

snake5

game quality, direction of posts around here

Jimmy

I think perhaps chat might not be the place to be arguing then

snake5

all this "searching for a better (more overdesigned) system" is bullshit which effectively stops people from making games, not engines

Jimmy

since it's not us that are asking the same questions over and over

Kikaimaru

19:05

there is nothing wrong with making engines :)

snake5

@Jimmy I asked anyone to show me some games made with these systems

no one has done it so far

@Kikaimaru yeah, if they're used for games

thelinuxlich

google artemis entity system and you will find people using it

Jimmy

I believe they mentioned Thief and dungeon siege.

what exactly are you looking for?

snake5

@Jimmy I asked specifically about this "Artemis" system

Kikaimaru

@snake5 why? its new

thelinuxlich

19:06

there are many things we do because the community asks

Kikaimaru

btw there are no commercial products done in typescript and yet its awesome and useful :)

and there are not so many games in java or c#so artemis cant be used that much

and most of game developer are cpp guys like you that hate anything that looks designed and just use arrays for everything... :)

Jimmy

I think that's a sweeping and unfair generalization

snake5

@Kikaimaru so? if there is not one game that is built using the system (could be in-house), there's no point in even considering the usage of such a system

Kikaimaru

@snake5 i use typescript because javascript is terrible alternative, and with that approach no one would ever use new technology

thelinuxlich

@snake5 now I'm depressed :~

Kikaimaru

19:11

how would there be a first game in cpp if everyone would use c because there are no cpp games?

but i think similar conversations may have been there when someone started to use objects in games... :)

snake5

@Kikaimaru someone evaluates new technology

that's exactly what I expect

these systems aren't around just lately

Kikaimaru

@snake5 yes, community is doing it right now

snake5

I've seen people talking about them for at least half a year

so far, I haven't seen one good game example built from them

all I see are problems

Kikaimaru

@snake5 dungeon siege, thief

snake5

"how to do this in a component system, halp"

@Kikaimaru not that kind

besides, people who use such systems are much more skilled in general programming than the average Joe around here

Kikaimaru

19:13

i know, you want the nonexistent kind, because you are already convinced that they dont exist :)

@snake5 how many times have you seen game related question about how to do something, that didnt contain "component system"?

thelinuxlich

people asks these kind of questions because they think the paradigm limits them, which should be quite the opposite :)

snake5

@Kikaimaru if anyone proves me wrong, I'll live

Kikaimaru

its just that your lack of design doesnt have name

snake5

don't worry about it

Kikaimaru

@snake5 dungeon siege, thief :)

snake5

19:14

@Kikaimaru not that kind, again

Kikaimaru

@snake5 whats wrong with it?

snake5

this "velocity component" kind, component and system separation etc

Kikaimaru

@snake5 but that was just example of how to understand components

snake5

@Kikaimaru 1) skilled people worked on it, possibly as an upgrade to their old system; 2) it works

Kikaimaru

and its not like that without velocity component its not component system

thelinuxlich

19:15

yes, please, focus on the system flaws, not on abstractions

snake5

"abstractions"?

what exactly does it abstract?

thelinuxlich

there should be dozens of ways to put velocity into ECS

snake5

so?

I'd bet there's even more without it

thelinuxlich

of course

snake5

anyway, you didn't answer the question

thelinuxlich

19:18

yes I did

the implementation on the example is just a way of many of doing things

snake5

"what exactly does it abstract?"

you didn't answer that

thelinuxlich

the velocity feature

sorry if I'm not expressing it very clear, english isn't my native language

snake5

that's not what I meant

Jimmy

can we change the subject

snake5

yeah, sure

Kikaimaru

19:22

sure, do you hate dynamic type languages as much as i do?

:) ok i have to go eat :)

thelinuxlich

lol

Jimmy

this is why we can't have subjective questions on stackexchange.

Anyways, are there good algorithms for automagically building collision structures for complex terrain?

I've been modelling a particular scene and it's got plenty of overhangs and outcroppings and bridges; can't really autogen a heightmap off of it. Was looking for a BSP or octree type algorithm perhaps

ToddersLegrande

@Jimmy this question may be of interest to you

-7

Q: Heightmap VS actual model of environment

I've been looking at 3D environments for games and I would like to know (case by case) which would be the best fit for development. The types in question are between heightmaps or a model of an environment (created in Maya, Max, etc). And when I say "environment," I mean "the ground the player wa...

(I kid. I kid. :P)

Jimmy

har. har.

ToddersLegrande

but seriously... and off topic... put an end to this one before it gets out of control!

1

Q: UI of a city-building game

I'm completely new to gamedev and want to learn how to design good UI for a city-building game (like SimCity). What books and other materials can I read in order to learn it?

strategy ui-design

snake5

19:27

@Jimmy don't we already?

Jimmy

@snake5 we do, and that's why there's a lot of argument over what belongs and doesn't.

ToddersLegrande

I love how the answer posted doesn't even answer the real question and actually does a good job of answering a question that might actually fit on the site. Maybe @Byte56 should edit the question to read as the real question he answered.

Jimmy

I was actually surprised Byte bothered to answer that

ToddersLegrande

Ditto

Kikaimaru

you know what is awesome, ui in wow

that the whole game is under the UI, they have WorldFrame that has on background what renderer draws

CiscoIPPhone

21:02

@Kikaimaru What do you mean by 'the whole game is under the UI'?

Jimmy

21:12

I'd guess when you're layout out the UI, you can specify where the "game" viewport goes? that way you can add chrome along the side without obscuring anything.

ToddersLegrande

21:31

Quick! Somebody say something! (testing pinned tab)

Jimmy

something

ToddersLegrande

Lame

Oliver Schöning

@axrwkr Had nothing to do with specific JS language, I was reading a Quote on CodingHorror that talked about what most programmers actually cant do, although they should be able! And that even a lot self declared "senior" developers struggled with the FizzBuzz. So I just did I didnt mean fast as in the Code is Fast, but in typed it down as it came to my mind. Still don't see what I did wrong on the number 100.

ToddersLegrande

I was hoping for the messages number to appear in the pin.

Maybe thats for the best though

Jimmy

@OliverSchöning I told you

you are missing 'else's

Oliver Schöning

21:35

But who cares about else if you got everything defined in IF .. I don't see how the 100 was missed out by the if

@Jimmy ^

Jimmy

._. not getting it

ToddersLegrande

Link?

Oliver Schöning

100 % 5 should have given me Buzz.

Let me find it

Jimmy

see this:

jsfiddle.net/3XtMX

your version did give you Buzz, it just also printed "100" afterwards

because of the missing "else"

Oliver Schöning

Ah. But why would Else trigger when If triggered? :s

Jimmy

21:40

:( because it wasn't paired with that if

jsfiddle.net/Schoening/GE9B4

this is yours

Oliver Schöning

But I though you only need one Else for all the if's

..

Jimmy

no

that's not how if/else works

ToddersLegrande

@OliverSchöning one else for if and else/ifs

Jimmy

else matches the last if

ToddersLegrande

1 if;
Any number of else ifs;
1 else;

Jimmy

21:41

but you can think of an "else if" as an extension

if (a) { }
else if (b) { }
else if (c) { }
else { }

could also be spaced as

if (a) { }
else if (b) { }
     else if (c) { }
          else { }

ToddersLegrande

++! Well put

actually

Jimmy

but no one does that, since it's hard to read. but if you think of it that way, it's easy to see "each else binds to the previous if"

Oliver Schöning

Where is the difference between IF and Else If ?

Jimmy

if (a) { }
if (b) { // a and b}
else if (c) { a and not b and c }
else { // a and not c and not b }
else { // not a}

ToddersLegrande

if (a){}
else
{
    if (b){}
    else
    {
         if(c) {}
         {
             else{}
         }
    }
}

^^ this is an else if

without Else If you just have a bunch of Ifs that aren't related to eachother

Jimmy

21:46

@OliverSchöning "else if" means if not the previous if and also if

CiscoIPPhone

else if isn't special syntax. It's a normal else, followed by a normal if.

Oliver Schöning

This is very usefull knowledge.. But I could use several IF statements to have a type of "Switch Cases without BREAK;" ?

CiscoIPPhone

@OliverSchöning Sure.

Oliver Schöning

So far I have only used IF.. Else IF should make code quite a bit smaller I suppose, less &&'s in some cases I guess

Jimmy

yes, else is special in that it kind of "attaches" to the previous if statement block.

Oliver Schöning

21:50

THANKS ^^ Now I actually understand the error of my fiddle

ToddersLegrande

high fives all around!

Oliver Schöning

Because the last ones are NOT "FizzBuzz" they also type out the numbers!

because of the else of Fizzbuzz

Cheers

ToddersLegrande

I can't believe I never realized it was standard syntax before. It's so obvious now! Thank god I understood it well enough before now to use it properly.

I mean really... take what I wrote, remove half the brackets (which really are optional) and there you have it!

Just thought I'd take a moment to admit ignorance and that I learned something. Huzzah!

CiscoIPPhone

Just for fun, another fizz buzz: jsfiddle.net/xpbWp

Oliver Schöning

@CiscoIPPhone With Booleans :p

@ToddersLegrande And everyone is learning something today!

Jimmy

22:03

for(var i = 1; i<101;i++)document.write((!(i%15)?"FizzBuzz":!(i%3)?"Fizz":!(i%5)?"Buzz":i) + "<br>")

Oliver Schöning

I see what you did there. Very nice, although I wouldn't dare to do that until I have gotten anywhere near novice programer

Jimmy

alternatively,

document.write("1\n2\nFizz\n4\nBuzz\nFizz\n7\n8\nFizz\nBuzz\n11\nFizz\n13\n14\nFizzBuzz\n16\n17\nFizz\n19\nBuzz\nFizz\n22\n23\nFizz\nBuzz\n26\nFizz\n28\n29\nFizzBuzz\n31\n32\nFizz\n34\nBuzz\nFizz\n37\n38\nFizz\nBuzz\n41\nFizz\n43\n44\nFizzBuzz\n46\n47\nFizz\n49\nBuzz\nFizz\n52\n...

the fastest way!

Oliver Schöning

Rofl :p

I could see some potential problems with that last one

CiscoIPPhone

22:36

ideone.com/Q0vnKY :P

Jimmy

not mine, but still awesome:

gist.github.com/4079502

CiscoIPPhone

Interesting...

I guess they printed out the output from rand with different seeds and found the sequence that produced fizzbuzz

It's like a form of compression

Jimmy

23:02

@cisco do you haskell much?

CiscoIPPhone

@Jimmy No. I've made a simple web app using happstack and that's about as far as I've got. It's an interesting language though.

Oh, I also made a few small command-line programs using haskell at my last job.

Jimmy

It's slightly relevant to my interests since I use F# for a lot of my day-to-day utility programs

coworkers are unenthusiatic about seeing any actual F# production code though

CiscoIPPhone

@Jimmy I'd probably say stick with F#, especially if you're on windows. I found using a lot of Haskell modules a pain to use on Windows due to dependancies on C libs.

Oliver Schöning

23:31

Can we ask general questions about Game Development that don't have anything to do with the programming aspect ?

Like your Opinion on Perma-death in Multiplayer Rpg's

Jimmy

not if it is "what is your opinion on permadeath"

perhaps if it was more of an answerable question

If we can hold an hour-long discussion of it in chat, it is probably too broad of a question to ask

Oliver Schöning

Yeah its more a opinion debate thing, I guess a forum is better suited :)
@Jimmy

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