Game Development

Chunk-e-Yamani

01:12

monday again, and everyone is working so their boss won't catch them lurking in the room :D

Jimmy

01:45

sunday night here

Dave

monday morning here :(

i hate mondays

Chunk-e-Yamani

02:01

@Jimmy it's 5AM here, so I think it's safe to call it monday morning here.

Stack Exchange

02:14

0

Q: Please stop feeding axrwkr editing rep

Over the last few days, user axrwkr has edited dozens of posts. That, in and of itself, is not bad. However, his edits are: In many cases too minor to bother with. In many cases, are bumping trash to the front page, without fixing the substantive content of the question to make it a decent post...

Oliver Schöning

05:31

Ok.. Not exactly a game.. But I read FizzBuzz on some website.. So I made one.. But shouldn't 100 be Buzz?
http://jsfiddle.net/Schoening/GE9B4/

Jimmy

it is

you're missing else's

in a couple places

user58869

05:54

@OliverSchöning how about this jsfiddle.net/GE9B4/1

Oliver Schöning

09:46

@axrwkr Cheers! I will get a bit defensive here and say that the challenge was to make it as fast as possible. I still don't understand it though. My if's should account for 100%5 too..

user58869

10:22

@OliverSchöning Please share the wording of the challenge with me

user58869

@OliverSchöning Does it have to use Javascript, can it use CSS and HTML?

user58869

@OliverSchöning I think it might be faster if you did it with just CSS and HTML, not sure about that though

user58869

@OliverSchöning But then that might be a question of which is faster, Javascript vs CSS and in what browser, I would have thought CSS was faster

snake5

12:02

this kind of replying looks very OCD to me... :/

I'd usually just reply with the first message if the previous message wasn't the one I'm replying to and write others as usual

Stanislav Ageev

Chat Nazi!

jk

what's up guys

the new about page looks cool

must steal

Chunk-e-Yamani

12:58

@snake5 ++

snake5

13:09

@snake5 "2. In many cases, are bumping trash to the front page" sorry about that, I really didn't know that was going to happen, what do you want me to say? "I'm sorry I spent my free time editing gamedev.se I wont do it again"? I can't undo it can I? — axrwkr 16 mins ago

user58869

@snake5 why did you post that in chat?

snake5

I'm actually not sure if this is all serious or sarcasm or something else :P

so I'm kind of interested in some opinions

user58869

@snake5 Well, do you have a question for me? Or you want to see what other people say about it?

snake5

I think I already asked all the questions I had

so it's the second

user58869

@snake5 Do you need any clarification from me? Is there anything I've said that you don't understand or need further information on?

snake5

13:13

the only thing I don't understand is why you put your own way of writing things above everything else by making those edits

I looked at a few of them and I saw a trend towards edits that in no way help readers of all kinds understand them

user58869

@snake5 I'm truly sorry for any damage I've caused with my edits. I did not think I was doing any harm to anyone

user58869

@snake5 I did not mean to be rude or have disregard for anyone by making those edits, though it's clear that there are a number of people who are displeased with them

snake5

I'm more interested in what happens next - what do you intend to edit from now on?

user58869

I will be editing nothing on gamedev.se for the duration of the editing ban, during that period I will have time to think about the sorts of things I should be editing. Each time I see something that I want to edit, the mouse cursor hovers over the edit link but I can't press it, so I ask myself, "should I really be editing this?", "what will the consequences of editing this be?"

user58869

I'm assuming that the editing ban is not permanent

user58869

13:24

Also I'll try not to be so "edit happy" on any other stack exchange sites

snake5

well, that sounds good

user58869

14:13

I regret making those edits now that I understand the extent of the damage and discomfort I caused in doing them. I wish I could undo them all and put everything back the way it was.

user58869

But even if I could undo them all, it wouldn't make things ok for the people that had to suffer while I was making them.

Noctrine

yo

user58869

Hi Noctrine, I understand that you were subjected to my edits over the weekend. Sorry about that.

Noctrine

Yeah that's actually why I stopped

user58869

I didn't know it would have such a huge impact on other people

Noctrine

14:18

The behavior isn't very unfamilar, Grace Note did it before as well as some of the users from English. Mostly I have very little care about it minus the bumping

I think it was just the bumping of mostly old questions that made the impact on everyone

user58869

I didn't know things would end up on the front page

Noctrine

there is no way to stop that though

user58869

I never saw them, I order my front page by newest

Noctrine

Like when I edit questions it still does it, the only people who don't are the CHAOS members

I'd say, don't stop all together. But try and bundle more than one. I noticed a few where the only thing you did was add a title to a link. That is unnecessary.

user58869

I've done a great many of those

user58869

14:21

In fact, those are my favourite to edit, since I get to read the page that the link leads to, I've seen quite a few interesting things whilst editing posts that require that type of editing

Noctrine

Also

user58869

For me it's better to see this
[State law requires you to watch this video of a singing hippo](http://blogs.msdn.com/b/oldnewthing/archive/2013/01/14/10384594.aspx)
than this
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/oldnewthing/archive/2013/01/14/10384594.aspx

user58869

not sure how to do links in chat but you know what I mean right?

user58869

Actually seeing the title of the page or article, instead of a really long url

Noctrine

I know what you mean but it still doesn't matter very much its just a question for formatting in a way that you find most attractive.

I find the whole link more attractive so that I can look at the source and see how I feel about following it at a glance.

user58869

14:28

For that I tend to mouse over links to see what they are

Noctrine

mhm, the point is the small stylistic formatting change that is that is really not necessary.

user58869

I get the point, I've been told that over and over again, I'll never live this down

user58869

I've got a whole topic on gamedev.se meta devoted to my edits

user58869

Its embarrasing

user58869

named and shamed

Noctrine

14:31

Should probably change that so its not discussing you specifically...

user58869

it's too late now

Noctrine

Well at the very least calling you out. but it's happened to a few people before.

user58869

I might as well delete my account and make a new one

Noctrine

Well its not an old user thing, its for new users

user58869

If deleting accounts is even possible

Noctrine

14:32

A number of us have been called out before

You have to email the team@StackExchange

user58869

I would prefer it if that topic was deleted, as it is, it serves no purpose other than to draw attention to me

user58869

Its actually quite nasty

user58869

A nasty thing to do even the title "stop feed rep to <username>"

user58869

There should be rule to protect people from that kind of thing

user58869

From being singled out

user58869

14:34

I feel as though I'm being attacked

user58869

For doing something that I thought would help others

user58869

I mean, if I ever make a similar post I hope I have the decency not to name and shame like that

user58869

They even have screenshots on there

user58869

Screenshots of me, I'm a person you know, a real person

user58869

What reason did they do that, other than to embarrass me and draw attention to me

user58869

14:38

What good have they done for anyone by singling me out like that

Noctrine

Draw attention, the users aren't directly malicious.

user58869

Are you defending what they have done?

snake5

@axrwkr it appears that OP thought you were cheating the system

user58869

So it's about the 2 rep you get for each edit

user58869

Cheating the system

snake5

14:44

there were lots of edits that took ~10 seconds to create, so I see their point

user58869

Do I need to give the rep back, I only got a hundred or so from making edits, take it back, I dont want it

snake5

I don't think anyone really cares about 100 points

Noctrine

nope

the biggest problem is the overrun of the front page

user58869

Ok I'll keep it then

Noctrine

especially of junk questions

That's another thing, if its closed don't bother editing. It'll likely be deleted at some point in the future

user58869

14:46

Well there's nothing I can do to change what has happened

user58869

Do you think I should be punished?

Noctrine

You aren't being punished

And with the behavior called out and you yourself saying you won't be doing it

people'll just forget about it

user58869

search on google for axrwkr on page two you will see this

user58869

"Please stop feeding axrwkr editing rep"

Noctrine

Don't see it at all, but yeah. I'm editing it.

snake5

14:56

@axrwkr I have worse things pinned on me in certain websites, I'm still alive

Noctrine

Same

Chunk-e-Yamani

@axrwkr I can't see that link in google either

@snake5 started searching by the way which website did you exactly mean?

snake5

@Chunk-e-Yamani it's in another language so I don't think finding it is going to help :P

user58869

for me on this url google.co.uk/…

user58869

second result from the bottom

Noctrine

15:00

I was once implied to be a part of a scheme to take over a website (that a friend of mine helped create) destabilize a guys business and threaten the lives of his children - after my friend and the co-creator had a falling out because of a problem user.

user58869

thanks for editing the title of the topic, the screenshots are stillt there though

Noctrine

Screenshots aren't googlable and are there to show that the edits alter dramatically the front page.

You are welcome to edit those, or to flag them for tetrad to take action against them. BUt I have to get to work

Also when I re-run that same search it doesn't return all stack exchange results like yours did.

user58869

people will see those screen shots and everytime they see my name they will think of that, I really dont want to delete my account, I'll have to think of a different name to use

user58869

ok, thanks for helping

Noctrine

Wait- nevermind

Stupid google thinking I don't know how to spell.

You can change your username from the user panel

Chunk-e-Yamani

15:04

@snake5 @axrwkr can you guys please stop chatting on my answer?

Noctrine

If you feel that's the only option left for you, but like I said. I don't think it's that serious.

user58869

I dont think that will work, it's still traces back to me, i only made this account a few months ago

Chunk-e-Yamani

I mean I'm not used to seeing more than 3 notifications per day!

user58869

and before i even got a chance to ask questions and answer questions I have to think about deleting it

user58869

i wish i had never bothered with stack exchange

thelinuxlich

15:08

hello

hey @ToddersLegrande

I've simplified Artemis API, added some good stuff and would like to see your opinion:
http://thelinuxlich.github.com/artemis_CSharp/

snake5

@Chunk-e-Yamani already did it, why?

Chunk-e-Yamani

@snake5 I just refreshed my GD.SE page and saw 9 notification.

snake5

:D

Chunk-e-Yamani

I had three or four more notifications before than.

Jimmy

17:16

Doing some work in Blender over the weekend reminded me why I don't use Trevor's keyboard.

melak47

whose keyboard?

Jimmy

TrevorPowell uses a mini keyboard

no arrow keys

no navigation buttons

no numpad

no F-keys

melak47

even my laptop has those :S

Jimmy

and worst of all, no SysRq and Scroll Lock keys!!!

melak47

SysWhat? also... what does scroll lock even do

Jimmy

17:21

SysRq, aka the PrintScreen button

anyways, this diagram kind of explains why I need my large keyboard

melak47

yeah, buttons are useful wne doing 3d work :p

Chunk-e-Yamani

@Jimmy even without checking blender I can't stand those small keyboards.

having a full keyboard is one of main reasons why I bought a 15.6" laptop.

Jimmy

I dont' mind small keyboard most of the time I think, it's the tactile action of a laptop button that bothers me more

melak47

17:53

my laptop keyboard sucks. dropped keypresses everywhere, and once in a while in duplicates others.

snake5

18:11

is there a laptop keyboard that doesn't suck?

Kikaimaru

hi

CiscoIPPhone

I like the Lenovo chiclet keyboards

@Kikaimaru Hello

I have a mechanical keyboard without a numpad for the desktop.

thelinuxlich

@Kikaimaru hey

Chunk-e-Yamani

18:27

@snake5 to some extent mine doesn't suck

Kikaimaru

i think artemis is missing something

something between component and system

thelinuxlich

@Kikaimaru tell me :)

@Kikaimaru we are discussing what can we do about behavior trees

Chunk-e-Yamani

@Kikaimaru who?

Kikaimaru

@Chunk-e-Yamani thelinuxlich.github.com/artemis_CSharp

and in my game i ended up with Mob component that contains all game related logic to mob

since dividing mob to something like health component and armor component just seems wrong

since i already know what exactly would mob be like

so i thought that maybe it would be better to inherit from entity and put game logic inside entity

Chunk-e-Yamani

@Kikaimaru what's wrong with your game? server is down?

Kikaimaru

18:31

@Chunk-e-Yamani ive had to move to different town so i didnt work on it for a while, and server runs on my pc and this is a first day that i have internet :)

Chunk-e-Yamani

@Kikaimaru so that's the reason you didn't show up the past few days :|

thelinuxlich

@Kikaimaru so you returned to fat objects

Kikaimaru

@thelinuxlich good thing about components is that i dont have graphics, audio, game logic mixed together

Chunk-e-Yamani

@thelinuxlich I kinda can't understand how component system is preventing fat objects.

I mean you are putting the logic for all possible components inside their container system right?

Kikaimaru

@Chunk-e-Yamani it does divide them into many components :)

Chunk-e-Yamani

18:34

it means each object alone will be small but there will be ultra huge systems managing those small components.

thelinuxlich

not exactly, ultra huge depends on the quantity of systems

Kikaimaru

and you can have one component = one system

but my renderersystem is big because i have all rendering logic inside it, and according to artemis design that is ok (i will later move rendering logic to components, since there is no reason to have it inside system)

Chunk-e-Yamani

example: using traditional method to resolve physical collisions with simple geometries (sphere, plane, box) you'll need three objects each containing 3 method to check for collision against any other object type.

Kikaimaru

yeah, whats most fun is that a lot of component guys will answer to that with: "you dont put everything into component system, you need external thing that will do physics" :)

Chunk-e-Yamani

with component system, you'll need 3 class containing no method, and a single class containing 9 methods to check collision of any two different object collisions.

Jimmy

18:36

I think this is an issue no matter how your code is arranged.

with 3 geometry types, there's 9 ways to do a collision no matter how you slice it

Chunk-e-Yamani

@Jimmy I prefer 3 classes each containing 3 method, compared to a single class containing 9 methods.

Jimmy

you could have 3 objects each with 3 methods, or a set of 9 collisionresolver types, or a mega-collision class wtih 9 methods

Chunk-e-Yamani

that's why I don't like component systems.

Kikaimaru

actually its just artemis that says you cant have logic in components

snake5

<_>

jeez

Chunk-e-Yamani

18:38

I mean the design that's encouraged as component system.

snake5

component systems, again?

thelinuxlich

that's because components can also be used as event triggers

Jimmy

I don't like to flat out say any way in particular is best

Chunk-e-Yamani

@snake5 this time I'm saying it's bad, and no one should try using it!

snake5

just f**king use an array of entities, seriously

@Chunk-e-Yamani that's good, and yet I'm still disappointed because the whole discussion about it exists

Jimmy

18:39

if you say "I don't want any logic in my BoundingBox component" you wind up putting it either in your BoundingBoxes container or in a BoundingBoxUtils class

snake5

everyone who ever tries it, cannot easily do something there

thelinuxlich

it's misleading to say components don't have any logic, you must use the common sense

Jimmy

yeah, the issue only comes up when people with no common sense try to blindly implement something

Kikaimaru

@snake5 i can do easily everything with them, and its far more easier without inheritance

thelinuxlich

We(Artemis C#) are trying to provide many ways to wrap your mind into Entity/System/Component :)

snake5

18:40

@Kikaimaru yeah, right

thelinuxlich

you can see that our implementation is very flexible

Kikaimaru

@snake5 yeah...

snake5

@Kikaimaru proof pls

where's the released games?

contests or commercial

Kikaimaru

@snake5 why_

Chunk-e-Yamani

I mean if a component system ever wants to exits it should be implemented using en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anemic_Domain_Model

thelinuxlich

18:42

the thing about physics is just a convenience, you could roll your own full-fledged PhysicsSystem instead of wrapping something like FarSeer but, is it worthy?

Kikaimaru

non contents and non commercial games cannot contain working code?

snake5

@Kikaimaru yeah, pretty much

Jimmy

I think some of original e/c designs were for commercial games

Chunk-e-Yamani

I mean the components should know what they should do, and the system only should care about the order of calling the components

Jimmy

I forget which one, maybe Dishonoured?

Kikaimaru

18:43

@Jimmy yeah, dungeon siege and thief

thelinuxlich

tony hawx

snake5

@Jimmy yeah, UE has components, THPS (v3/4 and above) had components as well

THPS had mapped their needs on a new system via an upgrade

Jimmy

i don't have experience with UE, so I don't really know what their components are

thelinuxlich

cryengine 3 too

Chunk-e-Yamani

good night everyone,

Jimmy

18:44

the word "component" basically means "partial something", there's really a whole bunch of different patterns people call components

Chunk-e-Yamani

by the way, Unity is built on top of components.

snake5

@Jimmy UE is in the "slowest game logic in engine" list

well

thelinuxlich

I don't like Unity implementation because it allows the Entity to have multiple Components of the same type

snake5

anyway, all that is besides the point - most such cases are engines, not games

they need to data-drive everything

Kikaimaru

@snake5 are you now comparing perfomance and architecture?

Jimmy

18:46

@thelinuxlich why is that bad

thelinuxlich

@Jimmy it is ambiguous, compromises organization

Kikaimaru

@thelinuxlich but you dont need to use it

thelinuxlich

@Kikaimaru still, if it permits, it can be abused

snake5

@Kikaimaru what?

anyway

is anyone here making an UE3/CryEngine3 killer?

Kikaimaru

@snake5 if we say no, then it does mean component system sucks, right?

snake5

18:47

@Kikaimaru most probably sucks for your usage case, yes

Jimmy

@thelinuxlich so if I had, for example, a beam thingie with two Location components (a Root location and a Target location) you'd prefer not to have a generic multi-use Location component but rather a Location and then a separate TargetLocation component.

snake5

@Jimmy this is exactly the problem

with the component systems all around us

Jimmy

@snake5 what exactly is the problem

snake5

when UE3/Unity/whatever makes components, they're huge, massive even

thelinuxlich

@Jimmy yes, exactly

snake5

18:49

"static mesh component", "rigid body component"

not "location" or some such shit

thelinuxlich

@Jimmy or a Location component which has attributes for target and root

Jimmy

@snake5 aside from it being a generic example, you're being remarkably hostile

snake5

@Jimmy yeah, I am

just tired of seeing the same fruitless discussion popping up over and over again

Jimmy

you could perhaps accept that there's more than One True Way to write programs you know

Kikaimaru

i agree with snake5, to my suprise. i would do a Beam component, that would contain targetlocation and all logic that beam should have

thelinuxlich

18:50

@snake5 don't be angry, use Artemis and relax :D

Jimmy

although I agree there's too much pointless discussion

and the same questions about which code belongs where

snake5

-"should we have two components of the same type, or shouldn't we?" -who cares?

thelinuxlich

there's not an unique truth

snake5

@thelinuxlich I hate component systems the way they're presented around here

thelinuxlich

I'm just saying my opinion on the subject

snake5

18:51

@Kikaimaru yeah, this makes much more sense

thelinuxlich

@snake5 what can you say about Artemis?

snake5

@thelinuxlich not much, I don't remember it that good

all I remember is that I looked at it and didn't like what I see

no idea why, not anymore

thelinuxlich

@snake5 take a look here, thelinuxlich.github.com/artemis_CSharp we diverged from the original java implementation

snake5

so.. got a link?

oh

oh, ffs "class Velocity : ComponentPoolable"

a velocity component?!!

Kikaimaru

yeah i dont like that either :)

thelinuxlich

18:53

it's just an example dude

snake5

if there were no such components, there wouldn't be a need for pools

there most probably even wouldn't be a need for component systems

just plain arrays of entities

Kikaimaru

in c# there is alweays need for pools

thelinuxlich

there are many frameworks out there which let you add a Velocity Component and then the character starts running :D

snake5

@thelinuxlich it's the first one in the page, very serious

thelinuxlich

@Kikaimaru is right

snake5

18:54

@thelinuxlich doesn't make it right

thelinuxlich

Neither you or me can say what is right and wrong

I can say it is pretty cool

snake5

@Kikaimaru I suppose that's a reason why I don't use it. I'd expect a language to sort this out for myself

thelinuxlich

flatredball does something like that

snake5

@thelinuxlich what exactly is cool about it?

thelinuxlich

you drag a velocity component to the entity using the UI

Jimmy

18:55

In my game, I have Locations as separate things but velocity goes under behavioral components such as Physics

simply because I'm reusing Locations as bind-points or target points

snake5

@thelinuxlich without this system, there wouldn't be a need for it

Jimmy

which I guess in other systems would be separate component types

thelinuxlich

I would do the same thing if I was using physics

Kikaimaru

@snake5 it does, but games are too much performance critical and garbage collector causes lag spikes

snake5

@Kikaimaru yeah, that's bad :/

thelinuxlich

18:58

it is just another way of doing things

snake5

@thelinuxlich not just another way

"component systems" are another way

this is overdoing it

thelinuxlich

why overdoing?

snake5

everything's so tiny that there's 1000x more lines of code than there are features

clearly not worth all this fuss

thelinuxlich

I don't understand your point

snake5

@thelinuxlich have you made a game for a contest or commercial purposes (selling)?

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