@Almo Not all conservatives are uneducated hicks and are bigots, only a small few. I try to pride myself on listening to other people’s opinions, even if I don’t always agree with them.

And always try to treat everyone right and help our society.

I'd submit in that case that your conservativism may be more a tribal identity label than an expression of actual agreement with the actions of conservative policy-makers, who consistently do the opposite of what you describe.

Yes, the truth is that all politicians are liars. It doesn’t matter who is in charge or their party.

They say one thing, then act entirely opposite. The political system has no longer became a place to get better, it’s become a place to become more powerful as an individual, whether that be by promising lower taxes or promising to ban weapons. It is just a rat race.

That said, there are politicians actively promising to harm their constituents, and going ahead with it - like the wave of recent bills attacking healthcare for trans youth. That's not lying to get votes, that's just being actively, openly, viciously, evil.

I believe abortion is one of the most evil things ever created. Yet it seems politicians on both sides don’t seem to care for the situation.

@DMGregory By “healthcare” do you mean medical conditions, like diseases, cancer, etc?

I mean treatment of gender dysphoria.

Abortion is often a life-saving medical procedure. Criminalizing it costs lives.

I just don’t agree with it because the baby is living (verified by the criterion of biological life) and the baby is a human, as it has all the genetic code of one. I’m saying the mother should have a choice, and the baby a chance for life outside the womb. But it does sometimes save lives as you say.

Those things can all apply to a tumor or teratoma as well. Often in cases of abortion, the tissue in question does not have a chance for life outside the womb. It is non-viable, or other complications will kill the mother before it can be brought to term.

You know who is equipped to make that assessment? Doctors. Do you know who is not equipped to make that assessment? Politicians, and randos like us talking about it on the Internet.

Most of my belief systems are rooted in the Bible, not in what some politician says they might know.

That’s just because I am a Christian.

But to put this into perspective on unborn children, let’s say I send you my decompiled game. Although it might not look like one, it is still 100% a game, and still will always change into one when compiled.

The Bible doesn't forbid abortion (see Numbers 5:11-31). A concerted effort by politicians in the middle of the 20th century made it into a wedge issue, re-sculpting what we now know as evangelical Christianity as primarily opposed to abortion, because that made them a constituency easy to manipulate into voting for them.

I have read the Bible and have analyzed that passage multiple times. It isn’t allowing abortion, as it isn’t even known whether the said wife was pregnant. Additionally, the word “miscarry” (and other such words) had drastically different meanings in the old Hebrew language which the Bible was originally written.

Christians have recognized abortion as a medical necessity going back as far as Tertullian in the 3rd century. The idea that "abortion is evil" as you put it is a modern political invention, not a core tenet of the Christian faith, and far from universally shared among modern Christians.

Different Christians have different opinions. It just depends on who you choose to listen to and how you interpret the scripture.

We know from experience that outlawing abortion does not stop abortions. It makes abortions unsafe. It kills people. But conservative politicians push for such policies anyways, knowingly sowing death.

If you want to reduce abortions, the very best thing you can do is invest in things like comprehensive sex education, easy access to contraception, and living wages so that folks are not forced into desperate choices. All of these policies - that actually reduce abortion - are opposed by so-called "pro-life" conservative politicians.

That’s kinda what I was about to say. People must be educated.

"Pro-life" has nothing to do with life. It has to do with securing political power, at the expense of lives.

That’s how every political belief is though.

It really truly is not.

A lot of people, believe it or not, actually vote with their conscience, to help people in different circumstances than themselves.

Some people do. But remember this one thing: although people can be good, people have a weak spot. Whether that might be blindly following a random politician, excessive greed, or lust for power, everyone has one.

"No one is perfect" is a pretty weak defense to "these people are pushing policies designed to kill their constituents".

Was Billy Graham, a pro-life activist, pushing to kill people? He wasn’t using the Bible to manipulate voters, but just simply to teach the truth which is held inside it. I understand that you have different opinions, and I respect that. Please respect that I politely disagree.

An opinion is something like "I think Age of Ultron is the worst Marvel movie." Nothing goes wrong when someone has questionable opinions. "I think abortion should be prohibited" isn't just an opinion, it's a policy position, and one that has consequences: people die because of that policy.

We can be polite as we like about it, but the fact remains: conservative politics is absolutely drenched in blood. Blood of women. Blood of people of colour. Blood of queer people like me. Blood of everyone facing down the changing climate as they stonewall measures to address it. They unabashedly trade our lives for money and votes.

And if you give them your vote, you are accepting that trade.

Good morning.

I see my shopping photos brought a not fun conversation.

I hope we can continue to talk about game development and other fun game topics.

DMG is right about everything he said. Want to stop abortion? Make contraception free and treadmill available. Some countries have both free and readily contraception and abortion and guess what: they have really low abortion rates. But the religious right in the Us is only using abortion as a wedge issue to get single -issue voters let them do whatever else they want.

Jesus says conspicuous prayer is not right. Yet supposed Christians fight for organized conspicuous school prayer. They are hypocrites who just want votes so they can force their ways on others.

Jesus says the foreigner should be treated as your brother in your nation yet supposed Christians are mad about “illegal immigration”.

Nothing about US conservatism is Christian.

Not “treadmill” up there but “readily”

Not to mention not helping the poor (welfare) and the sick (universal health care). US conservatism is just selfishness.

They use the bogeyman of “socialism” to scare everyone who doesn’t know what that really means. Look up the Harry Truman quote about that. Look up the republicans platform from 1954 with Eisenhower and ask what happened between then and now. It’s the takeover of the GOP by the religious right in the 70s and 80s.

You’ve been lied to a lot and are stuck in the tribal trap. No one but yourself can free your mind.

I think I will leave this chat room for a few days until it returns to a game development chat room.

@BenjaminDangerJohnson It's normal for discussion here to wander in between game dev topics being brought up. We'll generally shelve whatever digression we're on when someone pipes up with a development question or point of discussion. So, if the topic isn't to your liking, the best way to change the channel is to suggest something game dev-y.

@Almo I haven’t been lied to. I analyze sources from both sides and have come to a conclusion from my own mind. I’ve freed my mind from the followings of simple politicians. I hope you choose to do the same. And stop bashing someone just because they have a different political affiliation.

In the meantime, I’m with Benjamin.

Ok, calling out from your own viewpoint. Wrong wording.

How is game dev going?

I tried to compile and use lua and sol but I had compilation issues. I suppose I have a version of vs too old for the most recent features of sol..

I'll try with something from around 2019

FWIW, about the previous conversation, I don't think it's worthwhile to challenge someone's core values. They'll tend to entrench deeper into those when this happens. Imagine having the pillars of your mind being shaken. No one feels comfortable when this happens. This would mean to have to reject a part of your life, turn away from your loved ones, etc... This "tribal" aspect of the human psychology has probably helped humans survive in the past, and I don't think it's easy to go past it.

I agree. I’m not trying to make anyone uncomfortable.

But, both sides try to argue with each other and we don’t get anywhere.

@Tyyppi_77 I'm not a fan of "letting it go" either, I just don't have a solution to propose. I just noticed that arguments about peoples core values usually never lead to a change in mind.

Yes. I don’t think our bickering got us anywhere. It just got both sides fired up.

I managed to compile lua and use it with sol 🎉

Nice.

@Tyyppi_77 sounds like great challenges, good luck with it!

@Tyyppi_77 Is that like a debate?

@DMGregory Fastest comment in the west you got there partner.

[cue tumble weeds & whistlin' western music]

Also, better worded than what I was trying to scrap together. If you're not objecting, I'll probably be reusing the bit about "imagine your reader is not familiar with these tutorials".

@Pikalek What comment?

And, it’s gone...

@Pikalek It already had a vote by the time I saw it, so I wasn't as fast as someone else. 😉

And yeah, no objection at all. Anything that you find helpful to site users, feel free to re-use and adapt however it serves you. 😊

@DMGregory Parden me asking, but what was the comment?

> Imagine your reader is not familiar with these tutorials, but is deeply familiar with Unity and wants to help you. Try to include enough information in your question so that they can understand what you have so far, what you want to do next, and where you're stuck, without having to work through a tutorial series off-site that's not particularly relevant to them

That’s a really good comment. That will probably help 30% of questions get better.

I dunno about that. I hope it helped that user though.

How are you doing today?

@OKprogrammer You have been lied to. Until you recognize that, you're trapped in tribalism.

I have not. I question to find the truth.

And how am I in tribalism? I try to hear your opinions, and sometimes you make good points.

The things you have said are parroted talking points from the Religious right which show no personal alterations, and they're all untrue or biased in some way.

so you're stuck in tribalism just saying "I agree with this because people on my team say so"

No, they have said things I disagree with. I research everything and question authority, even the small things and sometimes agree with the left. Just agreeing cause of someone else means your a sheep.

I used to be a sheep in the past, but I have learned the truth from my own studies. It has set me free.

This looks like general programming to me. Anyone with C++ / Android experience able to weigh in or link to a relevant StackOverflow answer?

I think you’re right. No sign of game dev anywhere.

@DMGregory I would like to apologize for arguing with you. Sometimes my emotions can get out of hand over sensitive topics.

I find it amusing that as a semi-regular in this chat I have talked about food and cooking compared to gamedev at a rate of about 100:1, yet no one has once ever complained. But when people point out the significant harm to real people by conservative policies suddenly we need to talk more about gamedev. 🙄

Thank you, OKprogrammer, but I don't think an apology is needed. It doesn't bother me if you want to discuss politics here, as long as it's not interfering with the room's main purpose, and there were no game development threads going on at that time that it was interrupting.

Speaking of food, I might make some eggplant parmesan sandwiches tonight or tomorrow.... 🤤

ohh nice

That sounds good. I think I need to make them as soon as we can get good farmers market eggplant.

My wife will be very pleased.

@brug It’s difficult as a teenager to 2v1 adults on politics, sometimes.

We got one in a produce delivery box a week and a bit ago. It's almost time for the next box so we're trying to finish off the previous round of veg.

@OKprogrammer You weren't the one who said we should just stick to gamedev.

I struggle getting the texture just right on eggplant though.

Who was it then? Last night I was pretty tired.

Yeah... easy to make it too mushy.

It is probably better to just drop it. I regret throwing it out there. It comes off as an intentional provocation.

I would love if it magically disappeared. 😉

@DMGregory Or over salt it...

Ughh... why do recipes always say salt "to taste"? Like "the chicken is RAW right now, no I am NOT tasting it, just tell me the correct measurement to use already"

What’s the texture of eggplant like?

It can get very mushy.

Depends how you cook it. Kind of pulpy raw, then squishy mush when overcooked (I know I'm not really selling it too well here). Somewhere in between it's soft but not mush.

I'll let you in on a secret among chefs. We don't measure ingredients. Most of our recipes are completely made up anyway.

Really? I thought cooking used a decent amount of math.

😭

The inbetween is similar to pasta

One item on my bucket list is to become a good chef.

Don't do it. Managing a restaurant is grueling and underpaying.

No, I just mean learn to cook, like at home.

ahh yes. my bad.

DMGregory sometimes reads my mind it’s kinda cool and weird.

I wonder if he is really an early incarnation of SkyNet

Studying us.

Perhaps.

Hahaha. I've just been here a while. Similar miscommunications come up repeatedly, so you get a sense for them.