Game Development

PearsonArtPhoto

00:06

Still a lot to add, but...

Lasse

05:13

windows update and unity wants to re-activate the licence because it's not the same computer any more!

Chris McFarland

I had a great editor bug just before

Lasse

whoa

did you leave GUI.color = red; somewhere?

Chris McFarland

some error complaining it couldn't find the default gui skin

nah I haven't touched that at all heh

Lasse

oh okay

Chris McFarland

but yeah. #justunitythings

Lasse

05:17

yeah, like this: gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/141040/…

#justunitythings

I left a bit salty comment in my answer, but that made me feel better

Chris McFarland

lol, love it

I was looking at Dead Cells (plays well btw): http://store.steampowered.com/app/588650/Dead_Cells/
made with Haxe: https://haxe.org/
and a "Heaps" framework: https://github.com/HeapsIO/heaps

Lasse

seems cool

Chris McFarland

I really just love Unity's hierarchy thing :(

Lasse

I'm supposed to get back to C++ at some point but I haven't felt like doing any programming at home for a while, I feel like I'd need a month or two vacation before I would be happy to program at home

Chris McFarland

it's like everything is a "layer" in Photoshop, you can click and drag things, add things, it's so easy :(

Ah yes

Nothing wrong with a coding vacation

burnout is a thing

I'm on a weapon spree at the moment

Lasse

05:25

yeah, that thing

Blue Bug

08:07

I realized

I am actually building game engine

not graphic engine

and I need to rethink about programming stuff so I did research

Unity's Entity-Componenet system looks good

Lasse

Unity's ECS is not an actual ECS, it's an abomination of ECS as there are no S in there anywhere

Chris McFarland

lmao

Blue Bug

Entity Component ?

Chris McFarland

Unity's in a league of its own :<

Blue Bug

Where is system?

What does Unity do?

Chris McFarland

08:14

well looking at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entity%E2%80%93component%E2%80%93system

>System: "Each System runs continuously (as though each System had its own private thread) and performs global actions on every Entity that possesses a Component of the same aspect as that System."

I'd say out of the box, the whole Update and various calls are called by Unity's "system"?

as you don't have to keep track of all these Components; Unity does this for you with some overhead

Blue Bug

That's weird

so system keeps track of which "script" an entity has?

not that, entity keeps track of which componenets it has?

Chris McFarland

even the whole "script execution order" thing that Unity offers, I believe in a normal game engine (that you'd roll your own) each manager or system or whatever would keep track and call what's needed

Blue Bug

oh ok

so there is engine system

then there is a system for each component

Lasse

In Unity?

Blue Bug

I mean in a normal ECS

Lasse

08:20

in ECS there should be a System that is using various amount of different common components

Blue Bug

but here it says "Suppose there is a drawing function. This would be a "System" that iterates through all entities that have both a physical and a visible component, and draws them. The visible component could typically have some information about how an entity should look (e.g. human, monster, sparks flying around, flying arrow), and use the physical component to know where to draw it.

Another system could be collision detection. It would iterate through all entities that have a physical component..."

it looked like, I execute "rendering component first"

then execute "collision component" next

Lasse

For example one component would be Player Data which would hold hp, mana, xp, str, int, etc. Then there would be another component for a weapon that will hold data like "Weapon Type, Damage, Range", then there would be a system that will require both of these components and calculate the actual damage generated from the weapon and player stats

ECS is more like data-driven, Unity's thing is more like Entity-driven

user92578

I've never really considered Unity having anything under the S

Blue Bug

how would my this "secondary system" know which entities have both the scripts?

Lasse

The system is given the entity in the initialize of the entity

Blue Bug

08:23

do I go through all the entities and check whether they have both the componenets?

Lasse

And the system checks if it has all the components it needs, if it has it adds the entity to a list and if not it just ignores it

Blue Bug

so the more system I have, say I were Unity...

if you give me this "entity" then I will look at rendering scripts,physics scripts, but also particle scripts, and also sound scripts

because rendering is one system.

and physics is another system

particle is another system too

sound is another system again

Lasse

the entities shouldn't have scripts attached to them

all the mechanics should be done through systems

Blue Bug

so I guess the more complicated my engine, longer this "checking how many systems does this entity use,

Lasse

of course it is convenient and fast to prototype if you allow a script system that will run scripts attached to the entities

which is what Unity does

Blue Bug

08:27

for me, it kinda makes more intuitive sense for entity to have scripts on their own

but you are telling me that shouldn't be the case?

user92578

not if you want "pure" ECS

Lasse

if you want pure ECS, then they shouldn't have scripts

but it's really up to you how you want it to work and what works the best for you

Blue Bug

ok

Lasse

don't be purist, be productive

user92578

I found it really tedious working with entities, components and systems in C++

Blue Bug

08:28

what did u do for your game @Tyyppi_77

user92578

I have a monolithic entity system

user92578

I haven't decided what I want to do with future projects yet, but I'm intrigued by Unity's system

Blue Bug

one class that has all?

user92578

well kinda, that's what the result is since it's inheritance over composition

user92578

I ended up with a few larger classes and the rest are smaller

user92578

08:31

mainly the base CEntity and the character base class CEntityCharacter

Chris McFarland

I'm not sure what I'd call Tallowmere 2's system/structure

Kevin van der Velden

Lasagna?

(I kid, having not seen it =p)

Chris McFarland

Nah, that was t1

Kevin van der Velden

My previous work was that as well

Chris McFarland

I'm bastardising standards and using MonoBehaviours to hold a lot of non-changing data

John Hamilton

08:35

so... vegetable macaroni?

Chris McFarland

In places I am using virtual/override methods to get certain strings
But also using a lot of `On*` methods so I can avoid using `if` statements in a lot of places

It feels more like a gourmet

Kevin van der Velden

The left half of a wedding cake?

Chris McFarland

nah, cupcakes, lots of little itty bitty things

John Hamilton

I just googled gourmet macaroni and damn I felt the hunger...

Kevin van der Velden

Oh that works

Chris McFarland

08:38

yeah but the plate is dirty

John Hamilton

do you make your own On* methods (can you even do that?) or use built ins?

Chris McFarland

the plate is sooooooo dirty

I do my own On methods
I still use Update though, but try not to do crazy inheritance with it

too lazy to do proper delegates atm though

atm writing my fourth weapon, while only having one Weapon class

I have weapon "prefabs" that tick a few certain bools...
but am tying certain mechanics to Attribute classes, so that I can use Attributes elsewhere like on armour or skills

Blue Bug

09:34

Sounds simple

I wish implementing it is as simple as it sounds

Chris McFarland

It's just a lot of typing, a lot of time

Blue Bug

maybe it is, but I would run into issue that requires me to write the whole attribute thinging once or twice

Chris McFarland

but once it's in...

If it takes you twice then it takes you twice

that's programming

Blue Bug

lots of typing

lots of typing...

Chris McFarland

months of typing last year
scrapped
and then on month 5 now this year
and I'm only just getting around to doing the fun stuff

but it's paying off

jgallant

09:53

Programming is like farting. Push too hard and you are gonna have a bad time.

Chris McFarland

slow n steady wins the race

unless it's a gamejam

Lasse

sometimes you are forced to push too hard

Chris McFarland

:(

jgallant

That story about the tortoise and the hare. The original story, the winners of the race earned the job of warning all the forest creature of forest fires.

So the real ending everyone dies in a forest fire because the hare wasn't meant for the job.

Chris McFarland

well the hare was a dick for not taking the race seriously in the first place

jgallant

09:56

Tortoise.

He did take it seriously, that is why he cheated

He had to win at all cost.

Chris McFarland

ideally the tortoise would tell someone else to spread the word

jgallant

Slow and steady wins the race but kills everyone in the long run. That is the moral

doppelgreener

(that wasn't actually the original story, it was a satirical take added in the 1900's)

jgallant

Shut up it was original

doppelgreener

no really

the "slow and steady wins the race" was aesop's fable from 600 BCE, the forest fire amendment comes from 1915

jgallant

10:01

You son of a bitch you just had to ruin my story

Kevin van der Velden

@doppelgreener I like your use of BCE

Chris McFarland

The Tortoise and the Hare

"The Tortoise and the Hare" is one of Aesop's Fables and is numbered 226 in the Perry Index. The account of a race between unequal partners has attracted conflicting interpretations. It is itself a variant of a common folktale theme in which ingenuity and trickery (rather than doggedness) are employed to overcome a stronger opponent. == An ambiguous story == The story concerns a Hare who ridicules a slow-moving Tortoise. Tired of the Hare's boastful behaviour, the Tortoise challenges him to a race. The hare soon leaves the tortoise behind and, confident of winning, takes a nap midway through the...

doppelgreener

@KevinvanderVelden [ancient thumbs up emoji]

@jgallant i contest the factual accuracy of every part of that statement

Kevin van der Velden

Also not implicitly supporting a very european-christian worldview

Chris McFarland

oh nice, til

jgallant

10:15

What is going on with steam... i have been getting chat messages open up

from random people

and there is absolutely no message

people that are not friends with me

Chris McFarland

weird
maybe report it in the steamworks forum?

jgallant

n/m it is people on my list

when you invite someone to a game and then close the game

would it do that?>

Chris McFarland

Yeah

think the message initially has the invite link but then it deletes the message if they close the game?

jgallant

That would make sennse... just not sure why i got so many of them in the last 24 hours

like 5

Chris McFarland

2popular

jgallant

10:20

everyone wants some time alone with the jgal

Chris McFarland

I have soooo many games I haven't even installed yet, picked up from bundles
And a few I haven't finished yet
no time :(

hahha.

jgallant

streamable.com/ccfiw

Chris McFarland

nice

jgallant

how to annoy your neighbors

Blue Bug

best horse ever

lol

Chris McFarland

10:26

that's the funniest thing I've seen lately

jgallant

i love the part where he starts walking away

"i'm gonna go for a walk with this thing"

user92578

went through all my commits from the past month and couldn't find anything that would seem to cause the performance issues

jgallant

what perf issues?

GORB netted me 350$ on steam up to now.. I was thinking maybe I should take all the money I generate from GORB and put it in a savings account so I can one day buy myself a ferrari with it

user92578

like randomly when I restart a level it runs like at 10fps for a few seconds and then returns back to normal

user92578

I can't reproduce this under a profiler

jgallant

10:35

what happens when you start a level that would do that?

the panning possibly?

user92578

but it happens semi-consistently without a profiler

user92578

I have no idea, this also happens when I reload all textures

jgallant

memory cleanup?

user92578

yeah that's pretty much it

user92578

that's actually a good call

user92578

10:37

since that might be a common factor in the two seeminly unrelated causes

user92578

and also seems weird enough to be stopped by hooking up a profiler

jgallant

sucks when you have issues with a PAID game eh?

feel like you owe people a fix

user92578

I believe that this isn't pushed out yet

user92578

so the current steam version should be fine

jgallant

with picross touch I don't even have a test cycle

I just let prod users figure it out

its messy but it works

user92578

10:38

lol

user92578

if you've gotten 350$ on GORB

jgallant

In most cases people are pleased that I fix the issues I create.

user92578

that's pretty nice

jgallant

Yeah over 400 copies sold that is pretty decent

Its better than Zup

user92578

that's awesome

jgallant

10:39

and zup sold millions of copies

sorry

100,000 copies each version of the game.

(5 versions)

so half a million dollars in sales

user92578

so looks like I got retweeted both by jeb (minecraft) and jwaaaap (a vlambeer guy)

jgallant

wwwwwwwuuuuuuut?

link

user92578

Jan Willem Nijman

@jwaaaap, what a life

26.2k tweets, 27.5k followers, following 3.1k users

user92578

scroll down a little

user92578

it's my stupid eurovision tweet

user92578

10:42

Jens Bergensten

@jeb_, Stockholm, Sweden

Minecraft developer

11.4k tweets, 1628k followers, following 306 users

jgallant

lmfao

close but no cigar, haha

user92578

my two minutes of fame and it's not #gamedev

jgallant

Awww shit man I thought you had exposure for a second there.

Was excited for you

user92578

lol yea

jgallant

sigh

user92578

10:43

hmm it just also sunk my FPS when I just loaded a new level

jgallant

you update the engine or anything like that?

user92578

naw not really

jgallant

have you seen Oik on steam?

user92578

one thing I did was replaced a bunch of #defines (which are like search-and-replace at compile time) with actual constants

user92578

no

jgallant

10:44

its like GORB

could totally steal their levels

lol :D

user92578

oh wow yea

jgallant

like...

fuck man how do they generate 100k in sales

i have a better game than that shit

and I can't get any exposure at all

Features:
- 60+ levels
- 200+ Achievements

I WANT MINE TOO GODDAMNIT

user92578

performance drop when I closed a dialog

user92578

wtf is going on?

Chris McFarland

:(

jgallant

10:48

this is in debug mode ?

are you certain it happens without debug symbols active?

user92578

happens in release too, however it's more frequent in debug

jgallant

blarg.

problems like that are a bich.

user92578

yea

jgallant

similarly to that stupid ass fullscreen bug I have with Linux

Makes no sense.

and it doesn't happen to everyone.

And in every single case, it works in windowed mode.

Chris McFarland

11:05

oh boy the Katana

gonna juice it better this time with more swooshing/dash effects I think

might be a good time to write a cheat command for unlimited health too cuz I'm gonna need it lol

John Hamilton

Chris, please oh please, leave cheatcodes in :D

Chris McFarland

yeah :) I had them in for t1, was kinda hidden away, had to look up the devconsole webpage for the commands...

I might have them in a menu this time?

John Hamilton

naw naw

leave them in with button combos

Chris McFarland

or should they be unlockables like Goldeneye 007

John Hamilton

let people discover them by happy accidents

Chris McFarland

11:08

haha :)

I dunno, I know a couple customers have said to me they just enjoy maxing their health up to absurd numbers and just slaying mobs

John Hamilton

ah I'm talking about the "normal" gameplay

Chris McFarland

hrmm what do you mean then? or what would you add

John Hamilton

the maxing out health etc. is more sandboxy. if you have a custom difficulty thing then cheats don't mean much

Chris McFarland

my dev stuff was always to help me develop, but thought I'd let players have access to the same stuff too, kinda like how Valve has their games with the console all accessible

ah, well cheats, if you used one then it would enter a "cheat mode" thing where no scores nor achievements nor savefiles would get submitted or saved

John Hamilton

I was thinking more of an aspirine from gta kinda cheat

jgallant

11:11

what waas the first game to include cheat codes?

John Hamilton

or like the old warcraft / starcraft titles

Chris McFarland

ah yeah, looking it up

typing in a word eh

for silliness

John Hamilton

yeah just make obscure stuff

like one of the characters in starcraft

Chris McFarland

I get ya now

John Hamilton

the archon

would say "power overwhelming"

Chris McFarland

11:12

totally forgot this kind of cheat thing was a thing

John Hamilton

and if you typed in poweroverwhelming

Chris McFarland

right yeah

John Hamilton

yeah you get it

Chris McFarland

The Sims, aahhh what was the +simolean cheat

John Hamilton

just easter egg style cheats

Chris McFarland

11:12

right right

hmm hmm

jgallant

razzledazzlerootbeer

Chris McFarland

perhaps, a happy medium

where you type in the cheat once, the silly phrase

which unlocks the menu item lol

John Hamilton

of course, you should only do this the game is appropriate for it

Chris McFarland

I quite like it thinking about it, hasn't crossed my mind before

jgallant

Doom had shit you had to type in while the game ran "IDDQD" "IDKFA" "IDSPISPOPD"

John Hamilton

11:14

I'd put secret items in the game, if you also have shops etc.

Chris McFarland

And I do have memories of typing that stuff in

jgallant

strangely I remember them all.

Chris McFarland

hah

John Hamilton

that unlock with "cheats" but they don't break the game

they're just rather silly

Chris McFarland

yea.
For Tallowmere it would just have to not affect online leaderboards and stuff, would just be for a silly session

which is fine

jgallant

11:15

Smashing Pumpkins Into Small Piles of Putrid Debris

is apparently what it means.

Chris McFarland

lol

wc3

allyourbasearebelongtous: Instant win
greedisgood: Get 500 wood and gold
iseedeadpeople: Full map
somebodysetusupthebomb: Instant failure
thereisnospoon: Infinite Mana
whosyourdaddy: Invincibility, one-hit kills
motherland (race) (#) - Level select *1
strengthandhonor: Keep playing after losing in campaign mode *1
greedisgood (#): # of gold and lumber *1
keysersoze (#): # of gold *1
leafittome (#): # of lumber *1
iocainepowder: Fast death *1
pointbreak: Build over food limit *1
whoisjohngalt: Fast research *1

jgallant

in picross touch, there was a bug where the search would execute if it wasn't dirty

Chris McFarland

I don't think growing up it ever occurred to me that these were probably development tools

jgallant

because it was defaulted to a blank search

So to fix it i defaulted the search to "razzledazzlerootbeer"

Chris McFarland

:p

jgallant

11:17

(A term I'm hoping no one uses_

Chris McFarland

secret's out

jgallant

It would effectively break the search if you typed that lol

John Hamilton

oh yeah, I'll bet the first cheat codes that were left in-game were actually dev test stuff

that they forgot in the game before release

jgallant

lazy jon productions

John Hamilton

newest games are so creative, apparently the newest DOOM also has god mode. Which is unlocked via console, typing in God... come on! I mean you're DOOM, ya gotta do better than that!

Chris McFarland

11:20

oh man these were built into the game? gamefaqs.com/n64/197462-goldeneye-007/cheats

haha :( yeah even looking at the Sims 4 cheats, just boring sensical scripting lines

jgallant

yeah you didn't know about those?

Chris McFarland

it took me 6 months to unlock the Invincibility cheat lol

jgallant

wtf wasn't goldeneye the one with giant head mode?

Chris McFarland

where you had to clear The Archives in < 2 mins or something?

yea

jgallant

why isn't that in there?

user92578

11:22

I like to break the pattern by not remembering how I name cheats

jgallant

goldeneye was also the game that the characters did a ridiculous dance if you tilted the cart while playing

user92578

I have /godmode, /genThumbnails and /dev_join

Chris McFarland

feck the nostalgia is strong with these cheat codes

jgallant

errors.wikia.com/wiki/Cartridge_tilting

Chris McFarland

thank you @JohnHamilton lol

user92578

11:24

so the performance issue also doesn't happen if I have my debug drawing enabled
what the fuck is going on

Chris McFarland

I titled the Zelda 64 cart to bypass the guard in the starting area without sword nor shield, was fun

@Tyyppi_77 :(((

user92578

that might be my best lead

user92578

I'll see what the debug renderer does that might have side effects

John Hamilton

heh no probs, I was a kid back then but I still loved games :D

jgallant

wait you used to be a kid?

John Hamilton

11:26

naw naw I didn't use to be a kid

I was a kid back then, for like a few days

then I grew up again

jgallant

that is confusing

John Hamilton

yeah, I was like, what the heck?

that's an anime plot you can freely use btw go on :P

jgallant

Wait are you Tom Hanks?

John Hamilton

I might be, but you'll never know

jgallant

latimes.com/world/europe/…

The WannaCrypt exploits used in the attack were drawn from the exploits stolen from the National Security Agency, or NSA, in the United States. That theft was publicly reported earlier this year. A month prior, on March 14, Microsoft had released a security update to patch this vulnerability and protect our customers. While this protected newer Windows systems and computers that had enabled Windows Update to apply this latest update, many computers remained unpatched globally.

As a result, hospitals, businesses, governments, and computers at homes were affected.

user92578

11:33

also 'cause XP

jgallant

The main problem here is that governments are finding exploits, and not telling anyone about it.

National Security Agency, knows about vulnerabilities, and instead of patching uses them to spy on their own people.

Best security ever.

John Hamilton

also, holy shit Microsoft actually patched XP

user92578

lol yeah

user92578

damn I liked this dude twitter.com/eigenbom/status/863954606442684417

Alexandre Vaillancourt

During my next job interview, when asked "what skills do you have for this job", I'll answer something along the lines "I have worked very hard in the past years to learn to not do work I was asked to do."

Chris McFarland

11:48

@Tyyppi_77 lol the replies are great

user92578

> Q useful question A question locked by pedantic moderators

doppelgreener

Hey, please calm down on the vitriol. That's getting to be too much.

user92578

May 3 at 19:45, by Tyyppi_77

I'd weigh in that cursing was not an elephant in the room two days ago...

user92578

please tell me that you didn't do this

user92578

doppelgreener

11:54

@Tyyppi_77 I removed that post as offensive because directly swearing and insulting people is not consistent with Be Nice. Removing posts that way comes with an automatic 30 minute suspension. I've been lenient on swearing in general because y'all are used to it, though even that shouldn't occur in Stack Exchange chat with any real frequency.

I've deleted several posts recently without marking them as offensive, but now I'm going to be doing that with this one.

user92578

cool

user92578

that was definitely a suspension jon deserved

user92578

and this is definitely what this chat room needs

doppelgreener

There was also an incident a day or two ago where someone was directly insulting a steam reviewer in here. That got removed and the user was automatically suspended the same way for the same reason.

user92578

cool

doppelgreener

11:57

(Be Nice isn't limited to people on Stack Exchange; insulting people in general isn't OK.)

user92578

cool

Lasse

I think I can be nice to people even if I swear fucking lot

doppelgreener

@JohnHamilton I'm amazed they did that too, but it seems like exceptional circumstances that warranted it -- a major, enormous, serious worm that would've used those XP computers to spread.

Lasse

if they get offended about what I say it's their fault, not mine

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