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09:00 - 15:0015:00 - 00:00

09:27
@KevinvanderVelden ay
@MickLH in theory you can do 50 things and only need one try catch block, still ugly as sin though
surely some overhead will creep in from doing this somehow, at the very least it's just as difficult as correct error handling based on return codes in the first place
 
1 hour later…
10:35
Ohhhh I finally went on stack overflow and saw the thing everyone was tripping about lol
Guys it's not that bad, everyone's blatantly ripping the facebook thing anyways it's fine
It's been standard for like a minute
Not jgallant gaming.
You'll sell out eventually
At jgallant gaming we don't have time for that shit
Soon you'll not have time for not that shit
Being dead?
10:38
Yes, clearly being dead.
or being both alive and dead with a bernoulli distributed probabilities, but not observed in either state yet
I use spaces
Fuck tabs
tabs fk't
11:06
@jgallant I have free time again, and a few pieces of music you have to make games for ty
11:22
sure man
here let me find a place to upload an mp3
I got an AI to help me write that melody :P
actually I've been fiddling with a project that tries to help express anxious and angry moods that usually block musical creativity flow
and I was trying to express that enjoyable fun type of angry
cool
seems like its gonna need a lot of action
gritty dark theme or something
i'll call it... Billy and the Clonosaurus
I'm trying to render another one but I keep trying to "just finish it real quick"
but I should just send it as-is to see if you'll even fux wid it and all
ok ok. I pressed render
get to work flawless digital orchestra. every single 44,100th of a second better be within 0.00001 error of my composition, god damnit.
there, hope it's not corrupt anywhere lol
btw shit's copyrighted, don't screw around if you're not jon, I've got lawyers
DH.
DH.
11:57
downloads and sends to piratebay
> and other polite discussion.
Please be nice.
DH.
DH.
We got yet another report?
And again with good reason
Quite a few flags were raised from this room.
About a conversation between 2 already timed-out people an hour ago though =p
12:01
@KevinvanderVelden Yes.
DH.
DH.
Well, it's just Jon complaining about random stuff as always
@KevinvanderVelden The flags were raised only a few minutes ago.
@DH. This was not "just someone complaining about random stuff".
@doppelgreener I'm aware, I voted on them as well
DH.
DH.
@doppelgreener Oh I'm not defending him, it's just that it happens sometimes, so I already got used to it
@DH. the removed messages went way above that
DH.
DH.
12:05
Yeah there was some hate speech there
Don't ever get used to hate speech =p
Yes, this discussion was prolonged hate speech. "My plumber is late to fix the central heating" is complaining about stuff. That might have started out as complaining about stuff, but quickly became something else entirely that is not welcome on Stack Exchange.
12:34
I strongly suggest you all drop the topic, move on, and find something else to talk about. Game Development perhaps :)
Game dev guys
Not drama, game dev :)
I'll break the ice
Check it out guys, this is what I got done since last time I was here
u liek dem indirect shadouwz?
Anyone else code anything cool in the last couple months?
Or even non-code? anyone?
Hmm fine, let's try this again =p
@MickLH I've written backup software because none of the ones I can find do what I want =p
(specifically, continuous incremental backups with automatic de-duping and mounting a specific timestamp as a fuse filesystem)
12:49
mmm virtual fs sounds fun
I've been intermittently working on a heroic fantasy hack-and-slash tabletop RPG, and the current tabletop RPG rule-set I based the game on isn't working for the concept properly, but there's a couple of alternative rule-sets that look promising.
That's a non-code project.
computer search through the rules with a player simulator to find effective rulesets?
That'd only really find balanced ones, not necessarily fun ones
use a more detailed player model that factors in psychological thrill
It's a tabletop RPG rule-set, there's no way you can model everything
12:58
lol no need to model everything, just a few simple ego dimensions
simple my ass =p
Oh, well, the current situation I'm facing is this: the game is modelled on Fate Core, which is a system that is excellent at creating dramatic narratives about proactive competent people, which is exactly what I want. RPGs can't do everything though, and one of Fate's weaknesses directly interferes with the heroic fantasy hack-and-slash concept.
There's another system called Cortex Plus that does similar things to Fate Core in terms of storytelling, but is quite strong in the area Fate is weak in.
However I'm unfamiliar with Cortex Plus so I'll need to research it.
And someone else has created a Fate Core / Cortex Plus hybrid RPG called Faith Corps, so I might be taking that ruleset and using it.
@KevinvanderVelden you could define a really simple excitement value as something to measure of the sensitivity of the player's standing in the game with respect to the player's next move choice, given some overall game state. Then you could just use some kind of sparse state space sampling to approximate the overall excitement timeline for each player considering the story and the details of how you integrate it with the game rules
These RPGs are more like freeform roleplay with some rules available to use when you want them, so I can't very well simulate it. :)
It'd be nice if I could though!
Oh are you talking about dungeons and dragons lmfao?
13:08
It's that type of game, yes. :)
It's a non-code game project, like I said. :D
I've tried to play a game of it with some friends before, but I kept asking for precise rules or instructions lol
and sortof brought it to an ultimatum, are we here to game? or party and bullshit?
Bit of both? :D
lol that's what they said
(I'm a CS type of gamer)
D&D is kind of weird. It's got many different editions and many different ways people think about playing it, and most groups think their way of playing it is the correct way or even the only way anyone plays it.
I like a very well defined set of rules with an exact objective I'm trying to optimize
If the objective is not very clear from the get go, someone inevitably tries to downplay your glory upon winning
13:12
It's also got a sort of hold over the tabletop RPG genre like if everyone thought of monopoly when you say board game, or diablo 3 when you say video game, and everyone thinks every board game or video game is just exactly the same as monopoly or diablo 3.
shudders monopoly
monopoly is hilarious
@KevinvanderVelden right! lots of people don't like D&D or find it to be extremely flawed, just like with monopoly, but it's the one people think is representative of the genre.
Monopoly is a terrible boardgame
@KevinvanderVelden but it's a great spectator sport
13:13
@doppelgreener well at least D&D is a decent ruleset =p
Monopoly is terrible at all the things
@MickLH except maybe that
monopoly is great for P(table flips) > 1/4
@MickLH incidentally that's exactly the weakness Fate Core has. :) The difficulty of tasks is not rigorously defined and you make it up as you go. Hack and slash includes a component of feeling satisfied you did what you could and overcame the odds -- it's not too satisfying when those odds are only defined in a loosey-goosey way, it's hard to feel like you're confident you set the difficulty the right way.
That doesn't matter to normal Fate Core gameplay, because the sense of reward and accomplishment is elsewhere altogether (it's in the dynamics of the story you're telling together), but it's pretty important to heroic fantasy hack-and-slash stuff.
I sorta realized that partway into the dnd game I tried
I was like ohhh you guys are actually enjoying this story
I thought the host was just making up the first cheesy crap he could shoot off lol
@KevinvanderVelden well... that's something a lot of people would disagree with, haha
But now I'm such a big douche.
13:17
(including many of the people who play it!)
@doppelgreener it's way better at being a ruleset than monopoly is at being a boardgame
@MickLH yeah! people come to the table seeking enjoyment from lots of different sources. you want a challenge to overcome, other people want to act out awesome characters and scenes, others want a cool story to unfold, and so on -- lots of people never realise there's different forms of enjoyment from their own (or think other forms of enjoyment are wrong), so it's great you noticed.
Everyone who likes things I don't like is wrong >:( (/s /s /s /s)
i wish I was more easily entertained i guess
D&D isn't fun for me :(
It's ok jon we're just the cool kids
13:21
that nerd guy looks a lot like someone i know
@KevinvanderVelden monopoly is a fantastic game for losing friends.
@jgallant that's fair, it's definitely not for everyone.
we had this boardgame growing up
D&D with a map of a dungeon
@doppelgreener no, if you want a fantastic game for losing friends play something with lots of backstabbing
and it came with a book and stuff
this thing
@jgallant that looks impressive.
13:27
i think it was like 200$ at the time
(like secret hitler or battlestar galactica)
i don't know
@doppelgreener Or even marriages :)
@PaulWhite haha, that too.
@KevinvanderVelden I really hope that's not anti-semitic stab... pretty offensive there
beets
(that's a link to the game btw)
bears
HAHAHAH the faq:
> I don't think there's anything funny or cool about fascism. Who can I complain to?

President-elect Donald J. Trump
725 5th Avenue
New York, NY 10022
user92578
13:34
lol
Needs updating though, it's been what? Three years since he took office... well it certainly feels that way
wait Trump won?
I mean he lost
But #electoralcollege
remove the secrecy of voting.. force everyone to publicly declare their vote
I'm still waiting for him to screw something up before I start bad mouthing him
13:37
he is gonna try to screw the internet up
i don't think he realized how much backlash that is going to do
one thing you don't mess with, it is people's internet
You can destroy the planet bit by bit--- but don't you dare touch mah internetz
I need to read in more detail about the neutrality stuff, but when I looked into it a while back I remember thinking "Who do the feds think they are, telling a private company how they can use their private hardware?"
That's not freedom.
the private companies want this.
Exactly, obviously they want control over their private hardware
And they should have it, it's private.
they want to charge other companies to be on the internet...
for better service
13:39
Government wants to dictate all of that? Great throw tax money at the infrastructure.
aka... netflix would have to pay all ISPs a fee.
you wouldn't be able to start your own netflix either.
unless you are a rich already part of the system personl.
That's assuming people are too dumb to adapt to mesh network
that would be the solution for sure
And they need to r5emember who built this internet in the first place
we put the content up.. we made it
Even this worst case doomsday scenario actually gives me hope if it's really that bad, it'll force people to use their existing hardware better
instead of relying on private companies
@MickLH it'd have to be a mesh network that isn't going over the wires provided by the ISPs
13:41
that would be ideal.
Because why would they allow competition to themselves?
That is the idea of the mesh network...
@KevinvanderVelden duh huh lol
it would take time to get it global
but shit man, lets do it i'm game.
(you can have mesh networks over the regular internet)
13:42
Are you trying to make a silly joke, or have you legitimately never thought about how to make a practical mesh network before?
Obviously you can do a "mesh" net over the internet, and you can transcompile all your software to brainfuck.
Don't do that.
Install custom firmware on your linksys box
Link with your neighbors.
Forget about it and enjoy mesh
I have, I've got software written for things like it as well
That does have issues with connecting over continents and such
wouldn't a mesh network be inheritly ridiculously slow?
Nope
(though good caching would offset that)
13:43
The bandwidth scales up with each person
When did you last max out your network connection bandwidth?
Never. Your ISP would never let you.
@MickLH if every person was connected to every other person yes, but they're not
i mean how many hops would it take to talk to australia from canada?
Mesh doesn't have that bullshit "We make your service arbitrarily bad based on how much money we can get out of you" detail
it would be ridiculous
So from A->G you need to go through D which is way slower
13:44
@KevinvanderVelden No you've obviously not considered it nearly as deeply as I have.
Probably, enlighten me as best you can=p
You only need to connect to a small local group to get this effect
what about my question about australia
Links across continents is the hardest part, but that's doable and is the part that should be handled by the government really
would be faster to send the packets by express mail
DH.
DH.
13:46
Why would you ever want to connect to something in Australia? No offense @ChrisMcFarland
Lol wut
Sneakernet is a thing
and what about people without internet
how do they learn how to get on the mesh?
@DH. [sheds an Aussie tear, which sizzles and evaporates in the heat]
But anyways, even if each person only connects to >1 people on average, then from any point in the network there is an exponential increase in connectivity
13:47
It's a shame you can't send digital information over HAM networks (legally)
illegal ham you say?
Err, s/networks/frequencies/
You can, just not very efficiently
Also laser is easy as hell to set up and legal
And getting licensed for microwave is not hard at all
@MickLH Needs line of sight though
They even removed the morse code requirement recently
13:48
my uncle was huge into CB radios -- and he wanted the handle "Boogeyman" but it was already taken
So he did the next best thing "Boogeyman 2"
DH.
DH.
@doppelgreener How much we are talking about? Because it's expected to be 33°C in a few hours here
fan some of that heat this way
i got 100cm of snow to shovel
DH.
DH.
lmao
just bust out the flamethrower
the world needs to smarten up -- and distribute its heat a lot better
DH.
DH.
13:49
Yeah that would be great
@DH. just one tear.
if we all jump at the same time, we might be able to shift the planet's tilt
DH.
DH.
I hate how winter isn't cold anymore and how everything melts in summer
I'm living in London at the moment, but I had a skype session with my parents the other day -- it was 6:30am and already 30 degrees celsius for them.
@jgallant what if that sent us spiraling into the sun though
13:50
Then good riddance
@DH. including wicked witches of the west, who melt because of the humidity.
we would just need to jump in the other direction
correct our course
shit yes
@doppelgreener I saw the overnight low in Sydney was 33C recently. That's madness.
we have to master intergalactic travel of the entire planet
by jumping in unison
oh yes, someone calculated this
A cell phone comes out of a pocket. Within seconds, the rest of the world’s five billion phones follow. All of them—even those compatible with the region’s towers—are displaying some version of “NO SIGNAL”. The cell networks have all collapsed under the unprecedented load.
lol
I feel like I need to clarify that I'm joking after earlier :|
i like how this happened to apple during a presentation of their imac
everyone in the room were on wifi -- and steve jobs is like "EVERYONE TURN OFF YOUR WIFI"
Just so you guys know... we don't actually have to master intergalactic travel of the entire planet by jumping in unison
13:54
@MickLH not really
"Either you all turn off your wifi, or we end the demo here"
@MickLH we just need to install world engines.
you can tell that he gets pissed off easy
based on this , and other moments during his presentations
See we literally need mesh
All this stupid crap with everyone trying to autoconfig through the same channels and stuff
People don't even know what it means if you ask them to change the WiFi channel anymore
default to 7, everyone on 7
13:57
like guys... high quality engineers put lots of thought and effort into this
its better than token ring
there's channels for a reason... it's no accident that you can design systems with nearly perfect physical overlap
ok, well then software should switch channels when it detects too much interference
amirite?
@jgallant I agree, everyone defaults to 7. You need a linux terminal to change it
@jgallant at the very least
a good mesh network should collaboratively 4-color the network graph in realtime to decide channels for everyone
maybe even add a few more colors if it leads to a convenient distributed algorithm
14:00
They tried choosing a channel at random but everyone ended up on 4 xkcd.com/221
@jgallant every phone simultaneously detects too much interference on channel 7, and so switches to channel 6 per protocol. then every phone simultaneously detects too much interference on channel 6, and so ...
@MickLH 4-color is probably simplifying reality a bit too far yeah
actually it's not, it's the minimum set I can guarantee to be solvable
anyone want my navier-stokes code?
Sure, with hard boundaries. That's not a thing in RF
14:01
i haven't published it yet, and i am not sure if it is worth publishing
but when you consider that each node might be slightly out of sync, a 5 or 6 channel system might lead to more graceful change-overs
what are there, like 12 wifi channels?
check the specs?!
23!
i don't think you can use them all
well some overlap in frequency space
Indeed, there's limits per country
so if you want the benefit you have to limit to 4
14:02
And you ideally want about 4 empty channels between two broadcasters
but. 2d graphs are 4-colorable in general
why would they overlap??
so it only uses 1/4 of the band?
frequency modulation?
hmmm
@jgallant because that's the reality of RF =p
14:03
it would still be using part of the band the other channel is using
I mean they probably use something more intricate like phase shift keying
but still, conceptually similar reason
@PearsonArtPhoto you know this stuff wake up
@MickLH we're talking about 3d as well though
Not really, it's negligible in 3d
ok so basically it is about shifting based on location
14:04
You'll never have more than a couple humans stacked vertically
Few enough for the radio to easily just handle
Even in a sky rise
lol I typed that before you sent, just SE rate limits
well shit the more i read about channels -- the more i feel as though drivers need to manually switch channels based on interferences
14:05
but yeah think about it, you're out of range vertically before you have any issue with too many people
it would be ridiculous to manually tune all the time
Don't worry, my business stuff worked out, I have all the time in the world to build all this shit now
Problem with auto switching is that I don't think there's a protocol build-in for that so clients don't auto follow
would require a new handshake
The mesh networks, the automated power plants, honestly new OS and software from the ground up. I'm so sick of linux
14:07
HAY IZ ME JUS SWITCH CHANNNNZ
It's an irrecoverable mess
the router would have to be able to just modify the frequency on the fly
how hard can it be
really easy...
it ain't magic
update the specs
wireless jg
I mean going on that it already has to do that any time you connect to a network on a different channel...
14:08
you ever think about joining a spec group?
I wonder how long it takes to switch channels
IEEE
@KevinvanderVelden implementation defined. physically near instantly
i respect the need for specifications -- but i would never want to work on them.
Enjoy your meetings
Well yeah, having a motor turn a thing to tune the channel takes longer, I wonder what it takes in common implementations
14:10
Microseconds most likely
faster than you can ask
it'll switch because it detected interference
and will send a message to the client saying -- yo switching chans
client's next packet will be on that chan
Really the whole radio protocol could be reworked to factor in dynamic allocation
Parts are better now too, lots of legacy cases can be cut out to make room for efficiency
(There are software defined radio units reaching into microwave frequencies available right now)
i think i'm gonna try to put that solver in a shader for fun
see how high res i can push it
do it!
my shader skills are not great i can do simple things
not sure how this is going to go
14:19
You know I'd love to yell about your code where I can
The navier stokes solver? Nice
yeah
bro I still think you can make the water thing work with a constant temperature hack
@jgallant I know the basics, but I've never really dealt with the specifics.
Hmm. Has the game development engine/framework scene changed much since 5 years ago?
14:22
Wifi is a mess because even though there is in theory I think 12 channels, there really is only 3.
@doppelgreener A lot more easy to use things have been released yeah
3D is now approachable to nearly everyone
@doppelgreener also engines are free now
I think the 5 GHz band has a few more channels, but... Wifi is a mess, and never really intended to be as proliferate as it is now.
Back when I was in university about 6-7 years ago, Blender and Unity were big things, and so was the XNA Framework.
XNA died, Blender stayed still, Unity improved
14:24
monogame took over XNA
if you were into XNA you would like monogame
If you want to get started again, I wouldn't recommend it
Unity, UnrealEngine are far superior
I enjoyed writing with XNA, but since it was just a framework I had to roll all my own stuff.
Still a glorified framework yeah
Unreal is easy as hell these days
I mean everyone says Unity is easy, maybe I'm just comfortable with old Unreal, but UE4 feels convenient and natural to me
Would you recommend either for 2D (with pixel art or with 3D art) platformer games?
lol ask jon
14:26
unreal is more for 3d games
if you are looking to sprite out your game, unity would be a better option if you ask me
they have added significant 2d support to the engine to the point that you would think it was always there
previously all 2d was done with hacks and assets $$$
Oh wow! Unity with actual 2D support!?
lol yeah man, full on 2d support.
it even has a spine system
That's awesome.
with IK
what's a spine system?
14:29
spline sorry
this
They bought out the guy that makes this
Damnit, all this talk of mesh networks now I want to buy a bunch of cheap radiotransmitters and code one
do it!
@jgallant unreal does support 2d stuff
they have a flappy bird-like demo
Hmm, maybe via IR instead, that'd be fun
:)
i can't speak for unreal engine much
but from what i have seen, it isn't very 2d friendly
14:32
This is really fabulous news. I love C#, and the idea of working with Unity appealed to me very strongly, but I wasn't ready for 3D games and I was conscious that was the only thing I could do with it.
Godot engine is also adding c# support
when they do
I'm going to more than likely try moving over.
you can't beat an open source engine.
I want easy IAP though.
Unity has it
noted
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