Game Development

Hakase

15:00

what do they mean?

user92578

completed, par, bonus

NaCl

braindead

Martin Sojka

Here's an out-of-the-box concept: You travel on an ocean between islands, doing trade, piracy and exploring. The ocean is a hyperbolic plane. Which means it can't be mapped globally ... and thus doesn't fit into any "box".

user92578

That's almost Pearson's game though

Hakase

have you guys played Sunless Sea? it's a pretty cool game but there just isn't enough resources all the time

Almo

15:03

@Jon it's not pretty, BUT it communicates the info well.

Hakase

and if you don't explore the map, it gets harder and harder to keep living off of the same tasks

Almo

given your stars are for very different things, you do need some kind of differentiation on them

Jon

Yeah.. i think i'm gonna do it, blend the color in nicer though

Almo

@Hakase that's how it should be, if it's an "exploration" game.

@MickLH wow

9

Q: Can anyone identify this IC

It's the 6-pin SOIC in the middle with what looks like "67T" or "T76" on the top. I can't find any info on this I'm hoping someone here has come across this. The top left pin is possibly a digital I/O pin but that's all the info I have. Any ideas on how to trace this?

identification

MickLH

Looks solved to me

Hakase

15:08

@Jon can't you just list the full words and show their completion as checkbox?

a checkbox list

Jon

maybe

Hakase

or rather make them different icons

Jon

Would take up a lot more space.

Hakase

not stars, but something that signifies an objective, a bonus and the other thing

Jon

well there is this star collecting thing

you need to collect stars to unlock worlds

Hakase

15:09

like a tick "v" for objective, a "+" for bonus

MickLH

@Jon Super Mario 64 Ripoff!! Reported!

Hakase

how about an additional level of requirement so that you have to collect certain bonuses and just objectives aren't enough for some levels?

Jon

what?

Hakase

can't just get in with 20 stars, you need 3 bonus points

or 5 par points

Jon

so you want me to complicate it by adding more elements instead of stars?

Hakase

15:11

just throwing around ideas

ritwik sinha

????

Jon

i don't think that would work for me... unfortunately

Hakase

stars means how good you were, in terms of time, precision and overall (idk how that can be measures in this case)

Jon

I can definitely improve the way the stars are represented

Hakase

but in your case there's different approach behind each star (I think?) so wouldn't it make sense to award different kinds of trophies for each approach?

Jon

15:13

Yeah

Kind of

Hakase

so if you'll use multiple types of rewards, you could further play around with them as different requirements for unlocking new levels

Jon

seems like a lot of effort to confuse the player

Hakase

it could be very natural, like the levels designed so that you can only complete them by being very economic about moves require a lot of "economic moves" points from previous levels

MickLH

How do you guys deal with that thing where you're craving food and it's painful and you feel dizzy? I just need to keep programming but it's getting really annoying :/

Hakase

@MickLH I drink a lot of tea and have stacks of cookies at my table

MickLH

15:15

I depleted all my snack food except a bag of plain tortilla chips

Hakase

you could place a mini-fridge under your table and fill it with milk so you don't have to go make tea

MickLH

(Which is basically torture to eat)

Alan Tuning

Oh no! my bluetooth headphones have just died :(

Hakase

chips are not very satiating, try cookies or pastry

Alan Tuning

Now I gotta spend the next hour and a half in silence

Jon

15:16

@Hakase did you every play my game?

Hakase

@Jon you could just use three different icons to signify the achievement and draw them above stars

ye I've played it

I'm not sure about how the stars work tho

Jon

ok because you described the core of the game with that economic move suggestion, lol

Hakase

so check this out: you still draw the required number of stars as a blank star x 88, but for each objective in that end-of-level panel you can draw some mini-icon in the middle of each star to explain what they mean

Jon

the entire point of the game is to figure out how to solve a level in the least moves possible

Hakase

yes, but sometimes you can save even more moves that you're supposed to

by design or accidentally

Jon

15:17

not anymore

might still be a few of them

MickLH

yeah I thought that's what the stars are for lol

Jon

but a lot of effort was put in to set the pars at the lowest possible

MickLH

but I guess the stars are really more like an auxiliary challenge

Jon

the stars are literally an afterthought

it adds a layer of depth to the game

it serves as a tangible way to unlock new worlds

i really want to keep it simple to be honest -- having stars and clovers and diamonds are gonna muck it up

MickLH

oooh do you have one global "unlocked level" ?

I remember you talking about having 3 levels open always

But if the stars unlock levels, you could have a few levels past the end of the game. So that every 5 stars adds up to a level unlocked

So you might have 4 open at at time if you get enough stars

It would give people a way to "skip" a level if they wanted to, by getting 5 stars from previous levels so they can move forward

Alan Tuning

15:23

I've spent the last hour opening a new tab, googling "google" then pressing Ctrl + W :/

MickLH

but they still have to beat it, to get the secret levels

Alan Tuning

Wish there were more people smart enough to use Java in here

Jon

ehhh

i actually don't have that setup that way, but its literally just a matter of incrementing a variable

you can unlock multiple worlds at once

so that would give you up to 6 levels to play... or 9

depending on the way i set up the star requirements.

Pip

@MickLH are you ignoring Shaun?

He just said the most dumb thing that I've ever heard

MickLH

Why?

lol he breathed? thinking it was a good idea?

Pip

15:29

>I've spent the last hour opening a new tab, googling "google" then pressing Ctrl + W :/

Wish there were more people smart enough to use Java in here

MickLH

Oh @Jon I remember you complaining about the price of TextMeshPro... How much would you pay for it, and how many of you are there?

Jon

1 of me

Pip

Shows something about how smart people who use Java are

Jon

lol

MickLH

lol

Jon

15:29

i'm willing to pay for it if its cheap enough

MickLH

But that "cheap enough" is criticalllll

Jon

i dunno 25$ seems pretty damn reasonable

quite frankly I don't really want it that bad anymore

MickLH

Fonts aren't that bad, though processing the TTF hint well in 3d sounds super incredibly horrible

Jon

can you do it?

i don't need all the fancy bullshit

outline and drop shadow, how hard can that be ?

MickLH

Here's the thing, it's simple enough to do it the "hit and miss" way

But TTF fonts have multiple stages, first a vector graphic of the font, all makes sense imo

Jon

15:31

You need to know how to convert it into a workable mesh

MickLH

But then a fucking ridiculous VM bytecode that has a program for each character, to adjust the pixels after rendering the vectors

Converting the vectors to a mesh is straightforward, but running that fixup program on that mesh ... would require some engineering at the very least

Jon

that is why it is 65$USD

Unity literally needs to do this

it wouldn't be hard for them at this point.

MickLH

They might go the other way lol

If you get enough font / ui plugins, and graphics / rendering plugins, and network plugins, and physics plugins, etc...

Unity might just end up as a plugin host eventually

(and an editor framework)

I don't see how they could compete with the community anyways in the long term. They aren't really open source so just to stay "barely competitive" they have to pay to duplicate the effort of the entire community

I don't think that's a bad thing at all though... I think it could just mean better quality and better prices for everyone, because instead of a lot of generic functionality, you could precisely pay for exactly the features you want

Jon

15:47

yeah.

they also get a cut of the sales made on the asset store.

Sie

I'm hungry.

Pip

I just had food

Sie

@MickLH Why doesn't Unity just start hiring developers off the asset store then? I mean ProBuilder is awesome and if Unity could integrate that into vanilla that'd be awesome.

Pip

Homemade manicotti that I made last night

<3

user4704

@Sie Why would they?

user4704

15:53

If Person A makes an awesome asset and puts it on the store, Unity gets a cut of every transaction to purchase that asset, no? It also adds value to the Unity platform, which means more people want to make games with Unity (which Unity gets a cut of).

user4704

If they hire person A and roll that feature into core, not only do they lose the transaction cuts, but they have to pay that person.

Sie

Well it makes Unity look even more attractive as an engine as it is. However I guess the salary plus lack of asset might be too negative from a business perspective.

Pip

So as far as Unity goes

I have an object that I want to be in a static position relative to the camera

user4704

(realistically speaking, it's also quite likely that the person isn't desirable as an employee for other reasons)

Sie

I guess in a weird way Unity is better off keeping the core of Unity very lean and then making money off of asset purchases.

Almo

15:55

they did hire the guy who made NGUI to make the new GUI system

so if it's an important enough feature, they will do it

Pip

I have a hardcoded rotation, scale, and position but that only works if the player is facing perfectly in one direction

Any idea how I would calculate that?

Almo

too vague

Pip

Okay, hold on

screenshot

Sie

@JoshPetrie Why? That is awfully presumptuous. Especially considering there are various developers with varying backgrounds on the asset store. Low Poly Generator (I use that for my terrains) is made by a guy who worked with Bethsada on Fallout 3.

Pip

user4704

15:56

@Sie It's not presumptuous.

user4704

People make awesome games with shit code.

Pip

Ignore the one odd sword out, I already fixed that part

however

user4704

Artists make awesome art that is totally not game-worthy.

Almo

@JoshPetrie minecraft

user4704

It's very possible to be able to produce results that are awesome, but through a process that isn't awesome.

Almo

15:57

yup

user4704

And when you hire somebody that's the kind of stuff you want to look for because it can be problematic and drag the team down.

user4704

So generally it's exceedingly foolish to outright offer somebody a job based solely on a few pieces of cool output.

Pip

So that's an example of what a sword would look like if I just inserted it into the scene x y and z away from the player

user4704

And even just inviting them to interview (an interview they subsequently fail for some reason) can be a tricky PR move.

Sie

@JoshPetrie I see what you mean now. However surely Unity could see the code on their end and see how good or bad it may be.

Pip

15:59

Is there a way to calculate the proper direction so that I can place it relatively to the camera?

user4704

There are also other reasons to fail an interview, such as not being a good culture fit, or not being able to get a visa, etc.

user4704

It's not like companies don't know that people are out there producing awesome mods for their games, it's just that proactively approaching people to hire is fraught with issues.

user4704

So generally it's better to wait for them to come to you.

Jon

i'm not really happy with this screen

Sie

@Josh So in a way. It's better for Unity to not add too much to their engine and let people buy assets that do it for them. That way the engine is improved via assets and they make money in the process. Is that about right?

Kind of like the whole text issue @Jon and others have been having?

user4704

16:02

Well, I dunno if it's better on the whole.

user4704

That "but then you'd have to pay them instead of taking a cut of their sales" is just one very small way to look at it.

user4704

I don't pay enough attention to Unity to have a good actual analysis of their situation.

Sie

Think about it though. Why should Unity worry about new features when the community can just make it for them and then make money in the process (via a cut)? As long as their core remains up-to-date and relatively solid it seems like a win-win for both Unity and Asset Developers.

user4704

There's probably an argument there for Unity to keep developing features that can't otherwise be built through asset store stuff, at least.

user4704

But yeah, if you want a healthy marketplace you don't want to Sherlock every cool, popular asset in the store as soon as it shows up.

user4704

16:07

That creates insecurity in the minds of your content creators.

Almo

Asset developers have a habit of not necessarily updating their plugins to the latest Unity. Unity as a corp has to decide which bits are core functionality they want to deliver, and which they want to let other people build.

They clearly decided that having a decent 2d GUI interface made sense, so they did that.

PearsonArtPhoto

I have no doubt there is a host of features that Unity doesn't release for that reason.

Shader Forge, for instance.

Pip

Meanwhile:

Flight Four – One Chute Out

►

Alexandre Vaillancourt

16:22

@JoshPetrie this smells fishy.. gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/124608/…

Free Internet Points

0

Q: CommandInvokationFailure error when building APK?

I'm getting the following error when I build my APK: CommandInvokationFailure: Failed to re-package resources. See the Console for details. C:\Users\Me\AppData\Local\Android\sdk\build-tools\24.0.0\aapt.exe package --auto-add-overlay -v -f -m -J gen -M AndroidManifest.xml -S "res" -I "C:/User...

unity android google-play-services

Alexandre Vaillancourt

Looks like abuse of the rep system from these 2 users...

Pip

Potentially

user4704

Fuck.

Pip

Yeah I'm seeing some suspiciousness

Alexandre Vaillancourt

16:26

@JoshPetrie Yes?

Pip

huh

btw @Tyyppi_77 youtube.com/user/Northernlion

Potentially a good reviewer for you... each of these videos (link below) reaches around 60-75 thousand viewers

youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1bauNEiHIgxj7DUwVu4FbtCCRw59phE2

Alexandre Vaillancourt

@JoshPetrie Looks like it's our old friend...

Pip

How can you tell?

Alexandre Vaillancourt

This: gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/124717/…

Sie

@AlexandreVaillancourt Who?

Is that Mick again?

MickLH

16:31

No.

the fuck?

Alexandre Vaillancourt

@Sie No.

Sie

@MickLH I thought it was selfless or whatever you call them.

@AlexandreVaillancourt Ah.

MickLH

@Sie I guess it's @Sie up to his usual antics...

Sie

u wot m8

MickLH

u wana go?

user4704

16:33

Yes, it's him.

MickLH

@Sie lets go man, lets go all the way to the store, get some snack, get home do some gaming

Sie

@MickLH no but do u wanna go m8?

@JoshPetrie Who him?

user4704

I've taken care of it. You're right, there was a vote ring there and he matches for TCG.

Alexandre Vaillancourt

@JoshPetrie He's been away for a while, hehe!

TCG?

Sie

Man. We need a drama.stackexchange.com to explain all of this stuff.

user4704

16:34

The original user.

Alexandre Vaillancourt

Wasn't it TGC?

Sie

@Josh Damn it. You guys are too fast for Google to cache the page :(.

Alexandre Vaillancourt

@Sie It's just a user known to evade ban, abuse the rep system and less clever that those who mod here.

Sie

I figured it was something like that.

user4704

@AlexandreVaillancourt Yeah.

user4704

16:39

Well, it was nice while it lasted.

Alexandre Vaillancourt

It was... let's hope he won't start again...

user4704

He'd managed to stay under radar for a while with those two accounts, actually.

user4704

Hm, I wish there was an easy to find "questions you've locked recently"

user4704

Okay, cleaned up everything I reasonably could without taking too much rep from regular users.

Alexandre Vaillancourt

The other account had been active for 2 months.. did he do that scheme with other accounts as well?

user4704

16:47

Which scheme?

user4704

Sockpuppet voting to earn and post bounties?

user4704

Yeah.

Alexandre Vaillancourt

Oh :/

user4704

I'm not sure why he bothers with the bounty. History suggests he doesn't know how it works.

user4704

That is, he think he gets to choose who gets it because he's offered bounties for "complete working projects" only.

Alexandre Vaillancourt

16:51

It seems I missed those!

DH.

He was trying to rep as some sort of money to make someone do his shit?

user4704

Maybe. That's what he's done in the past with bounties.

user4704

shrug

user4704

He's never managed to keep his account long enough for the bounty to award.

Alexandre Vaillancourt

Yeah; he's getting caught right away..

Heh!

Almo

16:52

hahah :D

there are better games to play, you would think

erebel55

Does anyone know how to distinguish between an Ability and Effect ? For example would you do sphere traces in the Ability or Effect? pastie.org/10895681

Alexandre Vaillancourt

I'm not sure he's playing a game...

DH.

@erebel55 To me an Ability is something you are capable, and Effect would be a result of the Ability

MickLH

^ semantically, that's how I connect "effect" and "ability"

They don't seem like either/or categories

user4704

He's a help vampire. He doesn't really care about his standing or accounts here, he just wants answers to his questions, so he spams them and hopes somebody will answer before he gets caught.

MickLH

16:55

Seems like the "Item" concept needs to be there somewhere

Almo

DH. nails the fuck out of it

@JoshPetrie oh nasty :(

user4704

It's a shame, because I don't feel great about nuking his questions once people provide him an answer. It costs legitimate users reputation and, more important, time.

erebel55

Even with that though you could say that I am capable of swinging a sword and the effect of it is the collision check and damage application. Or you could add the collision check to the Ability.

Almo

yeah

MickLH

@Almo Nails most of it so hard that I can't just say the straightforward thing, but leaves something to be desired :/

Almo

16:56

:)

user4704

So ultimately he still wins. I would have been fine with him coming back and participating regularly until, you know, he started sockpuppet voting.

erebel55

// Smash
// 1. Swing sword animation
// 2. Sphere trace
// 3. Apply damage

user4704

Since he drew attention to it, he gets a complete nuke.

MickLH

@Almo I feel like you're the only person who has a chance of understanding exactly what I mean by that specific instance lol

erebel55

For example #2 could go in either Ability or Effect

MickLH

16:57

Woah

That's... I hope there's something I'm missing lol

Almo

hahah :)

MickLH

I'm ready to trip out on you, for your encapsulation boundaries

Alexandre Vaillancourt

@JoshPetrie yeah, he's been warned a couple of time...

DH.

@erebel55 My English is kinda bad, so, could you elaborate on what you mean by Sphere Trace?

MickLH

@DH. sweep test

erebel55

16:59

@MickLH what?

DH.

Ah right

erebel55

yeah, sweep test

DH.

That is what I was thinking, but yeah, need to make sure

MickLH

@erebel55 Why are you trying to force these ideas into those slots "Effect" or "Ability", they don't fit!

"Sphere trace" is not an effect or an ability, it's a query or a condition

erebel55

I am talking about where to call the Sphere Trace from

The Ability or Effect

MickLH

17:01

Is "swing a sword" its own Ability?

Put it in the "swing a sword" ability class...

DH.

Certainly from the ability, the effect should only be responsible for affecting the target

erebel55

Okay, that is the way I was leaning. I am triggering the ability logic from the animation since I want it to occur at a certain point in the animation.

MickLH

All 3 steps really, they are all part of the "sword use" ability. Then you could spawn a damage effect on the sweep test, and spawn a stamina effect on the player's sword arm

Ability does make sense, but it sounds like "player ability" while if you meant it's the item's ability it seems more natural. I would tend to put the logic to animate -> sweep test -> dispatch effects into some "Swingable" item class

And then make swords a subclass of that

Or alternatively, add a weight / size test and make it a player ability that can be invoked on any item

DH.

It depends on how his game is, but yeah, subclasses to identify each stuff is a good move to save code

erebel55

I think that makes sense. The projectile based abilities are a bit more confusing to me. Originally I was thinking that the projectile would just be a trigger. For example, when the projectile collided with something it would execute the Effect that is attached to it's Ability.

// Missile Launcher
// 1. Spawn projectile
// 2. On Collision apply radial damage

// Triggered bomb
// 1. Throw bomb animation
// 2. Spawn projectile
// 3. On Detonate apply radial damage

// Healing Node
// 1. Throw node animation
// 2. Spawn projectile
// 3. While active apply radial heal

So the Ability would really just be playing an animation and spawning a projectile.

And the Ability would have a pointer to the Effect that the projectile would apply when triggered

DH.

17:10

Either you make it preset on the projectile the effect

Or you go the inheritance way and on creation you "attach" an effect

MickLH

I think the spawning an entire entity to represent the projectile approach can work, but I think your raycast bullet seemed like a better idea

Maybe not for an RPG, but for most guns

DH.

It really depends on the speed of the projectiles, no?

erebel55

Right, I will need both raycast and projectiles.

PearsonArtPhoto

As I understand, most FPS games don't use projectiles, just raycasting.

erebel55

I'm just trying to get the design consistent. So the line between Ability and Effect is there.

PearsonArtPhoto

17:15

Except for slow moving stuff, of course.

erebel55

yeah I understand that

MickLH

17:42

Lol that trello page was such a fucking joke

Jon

MickLH

I likey

Pip

niiiiice

DH.

Looking cool

MickLH

@Jon are the extra 14 stars bonus levels?

Jon

17:44

no

DH.

@MickLH Well, it would be better if it had support from people like you. I'm just interesting in it because I'm new around here and serious game dev

Jon

some levels have 2, some have 3

MickLH

@DH. I tried, but it was all maximum clown-mode from literally the very beginning. I mean literally infected by trolls before any contributors joined.

@Jon 434 - 14 = 420

DH.

Yeah I know, I didn't like the troll there too giving dumb suggestions, I just wish that it will still happen

Jon

ah

i'm so stupid :PO

MickLH

17:47

lol it wasn't obvious

@DH. It would be kinda awesome, but organizing is a big task. Someone would have to give a lot of time organizing and planning just to try having a group like that

Doing it ad-hoc doesn't work, letting everyone vote on plans doesn't work.

If it doesn't come down to a unilateral decisive force at the end, it doesn't come down to a decision at the end.

PearsonArtPhoto

Voting on plans doesn't work. But getting some buy in before everyone commits, well, that can be helpful.

DH.

Oh IKR, I'm not wanting some sort of anarchy in this idea

As I said, I don't want to be in charge of the master branch, and I expect some of the more experienced around here to do it

PearsonArtPhoto

That is the real reason why a group project is unlikely.

MickLH

Well sorry but I trust literally nobody but myself, maybe jon but honestly even then I'm iffy about it.

PearsonArtPhoto

No one wants to take charge of it.

That much is obvious.

MickLH

17:50

I've got no problem taking charge of it, but what is there to take charge of?

PearsonArtPhoto

To get a group started, you have to have an idea, and get people to buy in to that idea.

MickLH

That's the real issue there.

Hakase

I'd like to hear what each potential participant expects from this enterprise

MickLH

Getting people to buy in costs effort... effort better spent on just doing everything myself.

We've tried these groups before, the only stuff that gets done is what I force to happen by doing 100% of the work myself.

Hakase

you should try a different approach then

PearsonArtPhoto

17:52

^

Hakase

why did it not work?

were people not invested? why?

MickLH

My approach works flawlessly.

It is working just fine, I make progress faster without anyone slowing me down.

Basically.... It would automatically happen correctly if someone just got on my level lol

Hakase

let's see if that can or should be happening

PearsonArtPhoto

That's perfectly fine, but don't put down people who want to try something different.

MickLH

This isn't an intervention.

This isn't about you telling me how to be.

Hakase

17:54

we're trying (at least I am) to figure out who even wants to work as a group to make a game

MickLH

I'm open to a group under a new idea, but I'm not gonna re-try the things that have failed before.

PearsonArtPhoto

Seriously, why are you constantly putting down an idea that you are admitting that you didn't think would work for you in the first place?

Hakase

to interest anyone there has to be a definition of the workflow people would join

I don't know much about game jams or how indie companies are born but I'd love to learn

MickLH

@Hakase Literally no matter how flexible I am it doesn't matter, I will accommodate literally anything as long as the workflow actually exists in some form.

Literally. Anything. That. Produces. Results. Seriously actually Any. Thing.

Hakase

do we know what workflows are known to have resulted in a complete game?

MickLH

17:55

For me "just fucking do it." works

Hakase

has anyone researched/followed any game jams from start to finish?

how do people come and work together?

MickLH

Usually money glues them together poorly

They have the same problems you see here, but they are forced together by money

Hakase

but the jams are not about money as the immediate goal

unless there's a monetary prize

Kevin van der Velden

Also someone having money means there's a person who gets to decide stuff

MickLH

I don't really see how game jams play into it, I'm still trying to decipher that one. I see how it could be a (piss poor) way to decide which game to pursue

It's really not better than just rolling dice

It's like taking a stack of recipes with the plan: Ok I'll do the first 2 steps of each one, and then decide what meal is the most delicious from there.

Kevin van der Velden

17:58

Also game jams generally work because few people, little time and small scope. And a deadline

DH.

Well, it's kind of obvious that the members with at least some experience will have the selected jam to keep on it as project, because it's harder to make in a single day something with a decent gameplay

MickLH

Game jam games get warped to fit the jam's harsh requirements anyways

PearsonArtPhoto

No idea if anything will actually happen with a group project at all. But there seems a desire to do something as a group.

Hakase

what's the end goal of our thing here? to make a game that could succeed on greenlight? Or to just gain development experience in terms of programming, designing mechanics, drawing assets, etc?

Jon

i have a desire to finish this fucken game...

PearsonArtPhoto

17:59

A game jam seems to be a way to accomplish something.

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