Game Development

Hakase

13:00

if you don't like it, chances are it will be very easy to transition to Unreal, just might take some time to recode the main stuff (no hard references on this, just my observations)

DummyBeginner

@Hakase appreciate it

user92578

Hakase

@Tyyppi_77 looks not jungley anymore, that's a plus

DummyBeginner

@Sie Oh, that's exactly I was considering. thanks

Hakase

but what is it supposed to convey?

Jon

13:01

what is that brief thing that appears

user92578

That the game looks pretty cool and interesting

user92578

@Jon icon indicator that there's a gun there

Hakase

I haven't played and to me it looks mysterious and I don't understand who's the main character here immediately

Jon

it looks weird

Hakase

usually the camera is fixed with the player in the middle but it's static and everyone is moving

DummyBeginner

13:02

@Jon very lucrative. Thank you

user92578

@Hakase That's too expensive in a gif

Sie

@DummyBeginner Here are some tutorials for Unity.

user92578

I have positioned the camera to a level border so that the background doesn't move

Sie

I'd start with Brackeys as he is beginner friendly and very easy to follow.

Hakase

just focus the camera on the player? idk it might look bad though, but could you try and post that?

user92578

13:03

Parallax in gifs costs too much memory

Jon

@DummyBeginner your welcome

user92578

I can't do that.

Jon

Hakase

ok maybe not

(that's a penis)

Jon

try to remove that for the gif

Hakase

13:04

how about the player (whichever one that is, I assume the green shirt guy) stays static in the middle of the gif?

Jon

no

Hakase

could be worse for the action but would make clear who's the player character here?

DummyBeginner

@Sie Thank you

Jon

it looks good aside from that -- it would also jack up the gif size.

user92578

This gif is actually a little too big already

Hakase

13:05

ok so what is going on?

Jon

he comes out of his jail cell and murders the guard that shamed him

killing a prisoner in the process

user92578

but by first releasing him

Hakase

I thought the player is trying to kill the bad guy behind the door, but fails, and an innocent dude in the cage dies too

because the player is the guy in the green, "friendly" colored shirt

and also in the middle

but everything is shaking so idk

there may be an explosion going off somewhere

Jon

hehe

Hakase

at a glance it's hard to tell

Jon

13:07

i like it

Hakase

maybe try a different situation?

ok from the old gif I see the player is orange and the bad guy is green

neutral dude is also orange, like player

I think they blend in too much with the orange background

user92578

The sun is setting

Hakase

it could be explained as camouflage, and if the player is always in the center of the screen, it shouldn't be a problem

user92578

Everything is a little shaded

Hakase

it looks like the guy (and Eva from WALL-E ?) in the cage are killed >.>

but this is me looking too much at this gif by now, I don't think any sane person would be sitting so long looking at details

the goal is to make something attractive and immediately understandable, which to me is not happening in this situation

the old gif did a better job at explaining that you're freeing people from cages and killing bad guys

here it looks like you're dying, the hostage is dying, and the game is pretty challenging, which could be a good thing if you're going for that feel

user92578

13:13

Leggy7

wow

nice one tyyppi

user92578

@Hakase You raise really valid points, but this is a 1 second gif

Leggy7

and it shws an ai, I like

user92578

I can't show and tell the potential customer everything in a 1MB gif

user92578

I do think that this would be a better thumbnail though

Hakase

13:14

it is also your #1 marketing asset from which most passerby players judge your game, so it is not to be taken lightly

user92578

I'm not taking it lightly

user92578

But the fact is that I can't put the player in the center, unless I crop the parallax backgrounds from the gif

Hakase

can you do the same thing as in the jungle gif but in this desert setting? it doesn't look like the cage guy is being saved honestly

Jon

the wobble effect would require a full frame redraw you know that right?

Hakase

green is really hardcoded as "good" in many people's brains and the green guy dies, which is confusing

yes, shaking is also probably a bad effect for this gif unless there's an explosion which would justify it

do you have any advanced gif editors which show frame differences?

PearsonArtPhoto

13:17

It looks like you blew up the guy in the cage actually.

DH.

I can see he falling

The problem is where he fell

Hakase

if you look closely which most wouldn't

MickLH

@DH. yeah but it's away from the expected direction so it's basically invisible

sleight of hand magic trick style

user92578

Hakase

ok this is so much better

MickLH

13:19

Amazingly better

Jon

yup

DH.

Yeah, makes a lot more sense

Hakase

you can probably put that up now

Jon

do it

user92578

aight!

Hakase

13:20

I'd recommend switching the shirt colors so that player is green and enemies are orange, red and other "bad" colors but that's already much better than before

user92578

That gif is now live

MickLH

@Hakase Well you're playing as the dark side actually, you're the hero bringing the world the violence of guns and saving them from peace and boredom

Hakase

the logo is green, has Hero in it, and the green guy is an enemy here − a little dissonance

really?

MickLH

lmfao idk I was joking

Hakase

I think the world is already pretty gunned up as we can see :p

DH.

13:22

Also Tyyppi, you could make some slaves, like, prisoners that are with pickaxes breaking stones or a cave wall with a ball and chain in their legs

Uri Popov

in the US yes. Then only guns I've seen in Bulgaria are Airsoft guns and real ones on the popo

Hakase

I meant the game :x

MickLH

@Hakase yeah the people have voted, guns are in, now we just need a hero to get rid of all those anti-gunners who want to viciously shoot down my love... for guns

Hakase

I meant THE GAME :X

Martin Sojka

Communist countries were very scared of the thought of their citizens owning guns.

Jon

13:23

if everyone had a gun on them at all times, there would be zero violence

MickLH

@Hakase The one you just lost?

Hakase

no, the one I just found and thinking of returning it back to the store

Uri Popov

@MartinSojka What ? During socialism most people got to carry their own AK from military training home. In case of a "Amerikanski" invasion.

MickLH

@Hakase As long as you're thinking about the game then I guess it's all good ;)

Martin Sojka

@UriPopov It wasn't their gun though.

Uri Popov

13:25

well yes it was the states. but you still got to operate it.

Hakase

k I'll be watching those other vids from the guy with whiteboard

Uri Popov

for free mind you

Martin Sojka

Switzerland has a similar system, but you also can just buy guns and ammo in any bigger town. All you need is a permit. Which costs about 30 EUR last I checked and is mere formality for most citizens.

Uri Popov

yep. I wish we could get guns as easy.

Pip

o/

DH.

13:34

Hey pip

user92578

hi

Hakase

@Pip I see you're involved in the trello game collab, can you explain or link to more info about that?

Pip

I'm not particularly, you'd have to ask @PearsonArtPhoto

Hakase

oh ok

PearsonArtPhoto

LOL.

The trello board, along with chat logs here, is all there is.

It was an idea tossed around yesterday.

Hakase

13:38

was there ever a detailed talk that outlines what the goal of this is?

PearsonArtPhoto

Not realy.

Hakase

should we have one now or sometime soon?

I'd like to get involved

PearsonArtPhoto

The thought is increasingly to do a 1 day game jam, and build the favorite project into something larger.

Uri Popov

so everyone gets 1 day to make a prototype and then we vote on what we build up ?

DH.

Yup

Alexandre Vaillancourt

13:40

Morning!

PearsonArtPhoto

That seems to be the most popular idea.

Hakase

is that how game jams are usually done?

don't people sit down and throw around ideas, and then work on just one of them?

I thought competing game sketches is for separate teams

PearsonArtPhoto

The two key elements to a game jam are a time frame and a theme.

The theme is more optional, but usually still done.

Hakase

I feel like the theme would be essential here

PearsonArtPhoto

Agree, hence the Theme card.

Hakase

13:44

no suggestions so far?

PearsonArtPhoto

The subject was just started

Hakase

can we just take some random theme from past game jams?

hmm there's gotta be a random game jam theme generator

Uri Popov

cjanssen.bitbucket.org/themegen

MickLH

@Hakase It's the spinoff of an idea I proposed, that @PearsonArtPhoto didn't fully understand the core point of before running off and creating a Trello which crashed and burned violently almost instantly

Uri Popov

solved... next

Oliver Schöning

13:45

"Entity" is such a clunky word imo.. what do you call your objects/class? I only really have one class with a lot of components. I wanted to call it for Creature. But a rock, tree or a chest does not really feel like a Creature does it..

Hakase

chrisjangames.wordpress.com/2012/05/16/…

Uri Popov

@Hakase i linked first :D :D

Hakase

heh

PearsonArtPhoto

Uhm, you ran yourself off the board.

MickLH

@Hakase There is a detailed plan, but the person who created the Trello page didn't understand it at all, even slightly.

user92578

13:46

@OliverSchöning CEntity for me

Hakase

@OliverSchöning NPC or GameObject dependin on how far up the abstraction hierarchy you want to go

MickLH

@PearsonArtPhoto What? No I closed it and never came back after you let the troll in. It's that simple.

Hakase

@MickLH can you link or quote your original proposition?

MickLH

yesterday, by MickLH

Wait a second, we've got a room full of game programmers who more or less get along. Why don't we have a nice kushy company yet?

This was as far as I got, didn't even get to finish the joke before someone got overzealous and tried to take over the project.

Oliver Schöning

@Hakase I like those suggestions. @Tyyppi_77 what does the C stand for?

user92578

13:48

That it's a class

Oliver Schöning

Oh so you do hungarian notation stuff?

Hakase

@OliverSchöning name it something you understand, not what the convention recommends if you're getting confused by it all the time

Oliver Schöning

Entity confuses me because I am dyslexic.. all them tities

user92578

@OliverSchöning Just for type names, so that I know what to forward declare the type as

Hakase

you could consult with CodeReview and other programming chats, perhaps they'll give you some ideas

Oliver Schöning

13:49

kk

Oh thank you for the tip @Hakase

Hakase

you're welcome

@MickLH so that was a joke, you didn't really mean it?

user92578

Thanks for the kind words @Lasse!

Oliver Schöning

@Tyyppi_77 I keep that in mind once I move to a static language :p

MickLH

@Hakase No I did, just not the way it reads at first glance

Basically I'm getting at that Jon and I should collaborate lol

Hakase

@OliverSchöning you can link to specific messages in chat by pressing the arrow next to the message you're replying to, and that would make it easier to follow the discussion

@MickLH ah so you didn't mean anyone else really

Lasse

13:51

@Tyyppi_77 :)

Oliver Schöning

@Hakase @Hakase thanks for the info

whops :D

Hakase

you're learning :)

MickLH

@Hakase Well I was open to other people contributing, but I'm not open to them screwing it up

Hakase

I'd like to contribute tho

I think I got what it takes to not screw it up

MickLH

Probably most people here could

But when you explicitly let trolls in, that's not gonna work

PearsonArtPhoto

13:52

I will agree that not screwing something up is a priority.

Hakase

not sure what you mean by trolls

DH.

I know you're pissed that Shaun is in there

Hakase

haha

Pip

(Aka "Alan Turing" now)

DH.

But that's why we could give only a few persons control to the master branch

Hakase

13:53

I must have missed some local drama

Lasse

Oh you have no idea

MickLH

@Hakase Specifically this guy Shaun comes in filling the trello board with unreasonable shit. Frameworks that don't even apply to the task.

Hakase

ah that confused me too

MickLH

So I delete the unreasonable shit and say stop trolling, he easily manipulates @PearsonArtPhoto and there's no point to using his trello

DH.

Maybe keep the master branch control to Pearson, Ali.S, you (Mick) and Jon, if he has the time to contribute to it even though he is busy with GORB

Hakase

13:54

but is trello even the best tool for planning game jams?

PearsonArtPhoto

He just opened a bit of discussion, that while it might not have been well aimed, but that was clear enough without any interference.

MickLH

@Hakase I highly doubt it

Hakase

(idk much about collab planning so I'm wondering about alternatives)

William Mariager

@Tyyppi_77!

I need updates!

PearsonArtPhoto

Trello probably isn't the best, someone suggested start a trello board to help organize things, and I thought why not.

user92578

13:55

@WilliamMariager Stats?

William Mariager

I can't be bothered to scroll in the chat!

Yes :P

user92578

1971 unique visitors, 630 "yes" votes, and 94% of the way to the top 100

user92578

Today has been a suuuuuuper slow day though

Hakase

is this in just 2 days?

MickLH

@DH. I've learned the hard way, either I am the BDFL, or fuck your project you can engineer it and maybe I'll fix a bug or something

user92578

13:56

Yeah, two and a half

William Mariager

@Tyyppi_77 Yeah, it likely doesn't get as many visits after day one.

Takes updates and progress.

user92578

Oh yeah

user92578

I should just figure out what to work on

Hakase

I wonder how Tallowmere went

Leggy7

tomorrow you will probably finish your trail in GL

super record

user92578

13:57

@Hakase I think Chris was lit in 6 months or something

user92578

He said yesterday that he was at 65%

MickLH

@DH. Even when people all have the best intentions, if anyone else is allowed to make engineering decisions they inevitably pull a "manager" move. I can only trust myself to know I ALWAYS can be ignorant to something and I can't know just how much I don't know. I can't trust anyone else to absolutely force their own ego away when it matters.

A "manager" move is not actually knowing the best thing to do, but trying to decide anyways.

Hakase

I'm like that too

I've got a feeling we could get stuff done

MickLH

Well jon and I have been very slowly getting hyped over an idea that maybe the name explains the whole thing: gta.io

Hakase

> Want to buy this domain? Send a fair offer to lesdomains at nym.hush.com

umm

MickLH

14:01

I don't think we can actually name it "GTA dot IO"

probably get sued for unfair marketing... it's more like a codename

Lasse

unfair marketing huh?

Hakase

in my experience, games named in that fashion are too generic and just not worth it

MickLH

That sucks

Try playing better games? lol

Hakase

they say don't judge the book by the cover but people totally do and it shows :p

MickLH

I've never heard of an MMO and thought, "Man! I'd maintain an account on there!"

But if it were old school gta...

Hakase

14:03

anyway, do we have any ideas on what to do next? from what I've learned so far this just happened, and the theme you're looking for is gta and I haven't played it enough to understand what that encompasses

MickLH

Man, I'd maintain an account on there.

DH.

By old school you mean the days GTA was 2D topview?

MickLH

Yes

Lasse

GTA2 was the last good GTA game

Uri Popov

SHAME

MickLH

14:04

I'm kinda burned out on it though after all the stress from the other day, I might try caring again one day but it's hard when we don't have any assets yet

Hakase

so you want to make something like gta 2? what would the focus be?

Lasse

MickLH

@Hakase The main point of the game is killing everyone else and taking all the money and cars until you have the most power and control over the game I think?

Hakase

reminds me of some steal sale game from a few years back where you crush zombies in a car

I think it was called Zombie Driver or something

DH.

Be hated by the gangs

So you have a excuse to cause chaos

Lasse

14:07

Make it team based and players would join some gang and then try to make that gang to be the king of the hill

Player-controller gangs

MickLH

"taking all the money" kindof is a blanket term for general gangster shit, so plenty of room for gang wars there

Hakase

is the car, city and money really important for the aesthetic?

could it be ships, space crafts or some amoebas instead?

MickLH

I guess but it's just an extra resonance for me

William Mariager

Did you ever try Auto Assault @MickLH?

Hakase

personally I don't feel any attachment to the old GTA's look but I think the feeling of a city and roads can be modified pretty hard to make something interesting to me

MickLH

14:10

@WilliamMariager I haven't

William Mariager

It was a post apocalyptic 3rd person driving game. You'd have various vehicles and loads of guns. It was extremely entertaining.

Mining was pretty much running over critters and destroying buildings.

I always thought a top-down 2d version would've been interesting.

MickLH

I was just looking it up, its too bad the masterserver is offline

William Mariager

The controls were superb in Auto Assault.

Yeah, it shut down years ago.

I'm a sucker for 2d. :P

Hakase

top-down? isometric? side view?

William Mariager

All of them.

MickLH

14:14

I should just stay focused on my software, I could make a million shitty little games how I used to but I know I can completely solve the long-term-masterserver problem and I think that would be a much more meaningful contribution to gaming

William Mariager

Psh

Contributions

Hakase

I'm not sold on the idea of a top-down car driving killing everyone you see game

I don't have a vision of it that I'd like yet

MickLH

@Hakase That's not how you're supposed to play gta lol

I guess it's the popular way though

Hakase

well, I wouldn't know coz I haven't

Jon

fixed a bug with reverse normalization of my music to slider position

MickLH

14:17

Syntax error: Unexpected part-of-speech near "music to slider"

Jon

naw I was naively doing this...

MusicSlider.Value = ApplicationData.MusicValue * MaxValue - MinValue;

MickLH

Warning: Comma inferred. Continuing...

Jon

When it should have been.....
MusicSlider.Value = ApplicationData.MusicValue * (MaxValue - MinValue) - MinValue;

NormalizedValue = (Value - MinValue) / (MaxValue - MinValue);

reverse of that.

MickLH

@Jon Wait, really a - not a + ?

Jon

hah, yeah a +

MickLH

14:19

oh ok lmao

Jon

that second - should be a +

Uri Popov

ahh alone at the office again

Hakase

> First, yes, the game jam is to everyone build their idea to see which one will be the best. But after that we would build the game as a team, and then we would need to agree on a single engine

how much "build" we talking about?

is just describing the mechanics and the basics enough?

Sie

@Lasse I feel like GTA hit its peak in GTA:SA. Of course I liked GTA V but lets cut the crap, it rode off of GTA:SA's success. Still fun though.

I'd say IV was the low point.

MickLH

gta:sa <3

Uri Popov

14:22

vice city best city

#MakeGtaGreatAgain

Sie

Vice City never really did it for me. I think it is because I played San Andreas before Vice City. Vice City just felt like a gimped version of SA.

MickLH

I played vice city for like 2 days straight once and then went straight to the bank to cash a check... bad idea

Almo

@Pip no, not "turing" I think it's "turning" or something.

Sie

But again had I played them out of order so that is probably why.

MickLH

I didn't do anything stupid in the bank... but when I walked out I noticed a cool motorcycle closer than my truck was

Almo

14:24

GTA games are just boring. (to me)

MickLH

I absent mindedly walked towards it ready to jump on it and trade it for my truck lol

The moment I started to hotwire it though I said, wait, fuck.

Almo

@Hakase Disagree. Who starred this.

9

Sie

Anyone feel like Bioshock Infinite was a downgrade from Bioshock 1/2? I loved the first two but I didn't even get halfway through Infinite.

DH.

I feel like starring Almo's message just for the lulz

MickLH

@Sie lol think of sequels like a geometric series

DH.

14:27

@Sie It was... different. I liked the game, but yeah, it didn't feel as Bioshock 1

Sie

It just felt like a weird on-the-rails shooter that was trying to be edgy.

DH.

And part of me hated Bioshock 2 because there were almost no changes in the game

Almo

I didn't like Bioshock. Didn't feel I needed to explore any of its systems because you could just zerg with the wrench.

DH.

But I really liked the history in Infinite

What I didn't liked in Bioshock is the lack of counterplay

MickLH

I thought Bioshock had awesome graphics when I first played it, but as a game I felt like I was waiting for an hour or two to get past the god damn intro just so they could bore me with no reason to do anything

DH.

14:30

If you find yourself against a Big Daddy you are either fucked really hard or you are using all you healthpacks

MickLH

I'd say that most people have an "irrational desire to live"

I'm not saying a desire to live is irrational, but I am saying that people have that "magic" reason on backup so when there is nothing else. You're supposed to still want to live just because do it. Irrationally want that even if you have no reason. You have to.

I already fucking covered that.

Sie

Sorry Professor Mick.

MickLH

lol you can't guilt trip me! I just take it as a stroke of the ego!

Anyways I think game developers don't plan for the players who don't really necessarily value life just for it existing, but demand a reason instead

Because I notice a lot of games get me into some character, but don't give me a reason to live before dropping me into a fucked up situation.

I tend to think, well shit everything is fucked and I've no reason to live. Where is the suicide and go play Counter-Strike button?

Sie

True. Some games are really good at pulling you in though. Like in The Stanley parable you really begin to care about the narrator and Stanley.

Hakase

I don't think it's about that, it's probably about wanting to know what happens next after you get out of this situation

sometimes you're just a circle in a rectangular world

can't explain that

MickLH

14:35

@Hakase I like puzzle games but they are a different thing to me

Like the difference between skateboarding fun and watching a movie fun

Sie

Tide goes in, tide goes out

►

Hakase

I've been hearing so much praise for Limbo but I've just played it yesterday and I don't think it's all that great

MickLH

@Hakase lol I have to try again when I'm feeling more drunk and high and alone

DH.

It's just fun for it's puzzle and all the spider stuff

Hakase

setting is important but you gotta understand that sometimes it's there for no major reason

MickLH

14:36

I never make it past long intros when I'm sober or have company

DH.

Limbo has almost no intro Mick, bad excuse for not playing it

MickLH

Lol I legit tried

Hakase

the intro is like 7 seconds

then you're in control

MickLH

I couldn't skip the intro I was freaking out and I knew I had to try it later to give it a real chance

Or else I'd be biased by having wanted to skip the god damn intro

Hakase

ok that's a good reason

DH.

14:38

Yeah it took me one minute to realize I had to press one of the directional buttons for the character to wake up lol

MickLH

Lol kindof amazing how effective it is to give something away on steam

Hakase

is it?

DH.

Servers were overloaded when they gave L4D2

Hakase

in what way?

@DH. I think that was a calculated attempt at measuring maximum load

MickLH

Limbo gave away free copies on steam and now there's people talking about it who probably wouldn't have otherwise

Hakase

14:41

nah it's just been such a long time and I've been studying platformers, don't take it from me

MickLH

The moment you cross the no credit card barrier, the user swarm pressure skyrockets

DH.

I already saw Limbo but never bought it to play myself

MickLH

Same it's not really the type of game I usually go for, but I'm gonna try it if it's free lol

DH.

I for myself am trying to try games that promises different experiences

Like for example LISA and Undertale

MickLH

When I try a new game I compare it to Source and to Nazi Zombies, and if I still want to play it after playing a round of either of those, I really like the game lol

It doesn't have to be similar, that's just how it has worked out historically

user92578

14:45

me: Hey, did you happen to get the game working okay?
brogrammer: Yep, works fine! Busy working on an update so not too much time to play. Without destructable terrain it actually plays very differently to broforce!

DH.

I like games that think out of the box

Makes the experience of gaming great

Hakase

@DH. it all depends on what the box is in your mind

MickLH

I want to work on an FPS game, but I want to be a new person in the pattern. To fill a role that currently doesn't exist at all lol

I have a lot of ideas about "game flow" and have been working on mathematically describing the way maps play

Sie

streamable.com/59t0

MickLH

I need to equip an FPS game designed for this concept though, and gather a shitload of data to make empirical measurements

DH.

14:52

@Hakase Something, that even using already existing elements, can me a mixed up to feel like something new

Hakase

sure

DH.

The combat system in Undertale is the best example I can give you if you still didn't play it

Hakase

I've played it

on a gamepad too

Jon

Should I give letters to my stars?

DH.

Why letters?

Hakase

14:57

a joke

Leggy7

I'm too stupid to get this joke

Hakase

letter, stars, postal stamps

Leggy7

omg thank you

Jon

you idiots

to identify them

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