Game Development

TheMuffinCoder

00:04

lol i only found techniques using directx or opengl for permanent stains, gonna have to use a particle engine for now then

Pip

00:50

Ask @Chris?

He did some cool stuff for Tallowmere

TheMuffinCoder

:P ill ask him once I try my first plan

Pip

yesterday, by Aidan Mueller

TheMuffinCoder

Java? shudders

Pip

yeah :/

TheMuffinCoder

Actually I had a good time with Java; now with Javascript, that gives nightmares

Aidan Mueller

02:11

May have said this, but internet speed gets confusing on the ISS. Down speed is actually a measure of how fast the connection going up is.

Almo

ok I can talk about it now

Bloodline is a good show on Netflix

Aidan Mueller

02:34

Clouds. Not the best for watching satellites.

Vincent Williams

04:26

has anyone here used box2d?

Aidan Mueller

Why?

@VincentWilliams Do you need help? Or do you want to know if it's good?

Vincent Williams

I need help

for a small thing i think

Aidan Mueller

Sorry. Can't help then :/

Vincent Williams

:|

Aidan Mueller

Maybe I could help you anyways.

Vincent Williams

04:43

Well I have some entities and they each have a box2d body

and the player shoots box2d bullets

I know how to get all that running and collision of the bullets fine

but how do i find what entity the bullet collides with?

so i can damage it

I can get which body it collides with but how can i get which entity that body belongs to?

Should the entity extend a box2d object?

or should I maybe use setUserData?

Well anyways... I am going to sleep now but if anyone has any ideas let me know

Hjorthenify

@VincentWilliams I used setUserData

Inisheer

user92578

08:20

Looked trough the FB iOS app class-names; I don't feel so bad about CGuiPanelMenuItemButtonLevelSelection anymore.

Martin Sojka

That could still be just LevelSelectionButton ...

user92578

True, but I like the alignment

Martin Sojka

08:44

Of course, there are also "gems" like AbstractSingletonProxyFactoryBean ...

Jon

10:27

Jesus fuck... Install new ATI drivers -- it installed a AMD Gaming Evolved bullshit game tuner garbage piece of crap software along with it

Gaming Evoloved.... yeah if crashing my games is considered "Evolved"

This is why you suck AMD

Kevin van der Velden

11:23

To be fair, nvidia does the exact same thing

Jon

heh, i figure

I realllllly am holding myself back from spending close to 1500$ on a new pc, lol

Hjorthenify

@Jon Sine i updated to win10 my AMD crapcard leaves all directX games with A black screen...

Jon

yeah... i'm ditching AMD

Hjorthenify

You should

Jon

my last two cards were ATI/AMD

I feel as if AMD screwed ATI

Hjorthenify

11:34

havet had nothing but problems with them

Jon

Since they were bought -- they haven't been on the ball

Hjorthenify

Havent

wow my Firefox sync now have 3 devices because og the amount og times i had to reinstall

Jon

Found a major bug in Win10 the other day at my dad's house

If you install windows 10 without a online account -- basically just a local account

Then you go to the store -- and register a online account .. It creates a new ONLINE Account user

There is no option to link to your current User -- but that is not the bug

IF YOU ENTER THE WRONG EMAIL ADDRESS -- it will link it to that email address, and YOU CANNOT CHANGE THE EMAIL ADDRESS.

Hjorthenify

og wow.. Thats stupid

Jon

it fucken locked my dad out of his PC -- Luckily I was able to create that bad email address, as it was not in use -- reset the password on that account, and get it to log in

Hjorthenify

11:39

Did u see how many settings they recommend which violates your privacy?

Jon

Yeah, don't get me started on that.

That is the norm nowadays...

If they would have done that in Windows 7 for example, there would have been outrage

Hjorthenify

Yeah... Its really scary though

Jon

We have eroded our privacy rights so quickly, I am in awe

Hjorthenify

:\

Jon

Now, you are a profile on government and private servers.

Like furniture porn? They know about it

Hjorthenify

11:41

also editing system files are A pain now

even as admin

Jon

Worried about that lump on your neck? They know about that too

Hjorthenify

and yeah.. One of the settings allowed them to find your location and share itnwuth 3rd parties..

Jon

You can turn it all off though

This is a major issue for corporations

Hjorthenify

at least they are op en about it

Jon

No one in the corp world is going to upgrade to 10

Hjorthenify

11:43

Well yeah but most users is just gonna. Stick with the recommended settings

Jon

YUP

my father has no idea what the hell those settings are for

I imagine to him, it is all just gibberish

Hjorthenify

My mother didnt either

They also did A great job to hide the button for advanced settings..

@jon did u write down his win10 key?

Jon

no

he did the install not me

Hjorthenify

I forgot and it was A pain to retrieve it to reinstall

user92578

12:08

Hi

Jon

12:55

ourladyofperpetualexemption.com

He registered a actual church

Episode here:

Last Week Tonight with John Oliver: Televangelists (HBO)

►

user92578

13:19

That's.... something.

Jon

Dyna: A Model of Dynamic Human Shape in Motion (SIGGRAPH 2015)

►

Almo

@Inisheer the Atari 2600 had 128 bytes of RAM. So it did have memory. Just not much. :)

Jesus Christ

13:59

Wow, 128 bytes

Judas scripts were larger back in time, you know

Almo

yeah

bitch of a thing to work with

CPU was the GPU

couldn't execute commands while raster trace being drawn

got some commands each horizontal retrace, and a larger bunch of commands each vertical retrace

this is why tearing was pretty much not an issue on the 2600

Jon

Jesus Christ

By the way, I was always interested, what's that story behind VSYNc and HSYNC interrupts. For what they was needed for?

Almo

TVs drew the image line by line

Jesus Christ

yeah, I know that

Almo

14:03

VSYNC told you when the electron beam was retracing from bottom to top to start the nexdt frame

so if you want for vsync, you flip your frame buffer then

means you don't see buffer0 on the top of the image and buffer1 on the bottom of the image

which is what we call "tearing"

some people don't seem to be able to see tearing, so when those of us who can complain about it, those who can't think we're crazy

Jesus Christ

Interesting

But why I can't just use buffer0?

Almo

becuase if you update buffer0 while it's being drawn, you get a partial update on screen

so you draw to buffer1 while the tv is rendering buffer 0

then you tell it to draw buffer 1 for the next frame while you render the new frame to buffer 0

Jesus Christ

How long did it take on Atari2600?

To render a framebuffer on screen?

Almo

2600 didn't do buffers

it had 3 hardware sprites

what people would do is let the sprite get drawn, then move it down screen to get drawn again

Jesus Christ

Don't understand. Why draw the same sprite?

Almo

14:07

hold on

how do you draw that with 3 sprites?

the 2600 had a multiplier thing where sprite could be drawn as

X

X X

X....X

...X X

X X X

so the row of 6 guys up there is two sprites in X X X mode

how do you draw the second row of guys? move the sprites down before the TV gets there

so on a machine with 3 movable objects, you're displaying 36. PLys the player and some bullets

Jesus Christ

So moving sprites was faster then TV-set's electron beam?

Almo

you don't seem to understand what a "sprite" is

hmm

ok, so a Sprite in this case is a structure where you give an X/Y coord, a pointer to some graphic data, and a couple other things

when the CPU is sending graphic data to the tv, each pixel it says "hey is there a pixel from a sprite here"

it checks the X/Y coord and the gfx, and decides if it needs to send a pixel

Jesus Christ

I mean electron beam was moving extremely fast, and Atari probably had very slow memory and very slow CPU

Almo

"moving the sprite" is just changing the X/Y coord and to change the shape, a graphic pointer

you're not blitting bits to move the sprite

you're just changing the hardware registers that tell the CPU where the pixels are

Jesus Christ

yep, and that's exactly what I'm thinking - even changing two int's on Atari were slower then electron beam.

Almo

14:13

what we call a "sprite" now is nothing like what it once was

no

you could get something like 6 commands in each time the beam did a horizontal retrace

I might ahve the number wrong

but it wasn't much in any case

if you look at the arcade space invaders in action, you'll see that it's more like what we think of today, with it erasing and redrawing the little guys each move

Jesus Christ

@Almo so you say video controller was polling CPU any time it wanted to draw a pixel, is that right?

Almo

you can see that it takes several video updates for the guys to move

the CPU WAS the video controller on the 2600 (If I'm remembering right)

Jesus Christ

My Gosh...

Almo

so you couldn't do ANYTHING while the line was being drawn

Space Invaders on 2600 is a miracle of engineering

sold literally millions of the console

and Rick got paid $10k for it

The thing where the space invaders move faster as there are fewer of them is a fortunate artifcat of how it was built on the arcade machine

if you look at the 2600 version, they all move at exactly the same time, perfectly frame-synced

user92578

Guess who's into procrastination mood today?

Almo

14:17

Space Invaders (HD) - Arcade Version (1978)

►

Atari 2600 Space Invaders

►

I honestly can't say how the did the shield things. I don't know about the part of the 2600 that handled bitmapped type graphics

I just know about the sprite system

Jesus Christ

Atari version looks much better

Almo

That's one of the amazing things about it. :)

Jesus Christ

So all game logic was handled in Vsync and HSync callbacks

Almo

that's a 4k ROM as well

yes

Jesus Christ

But even modern games use Vsync, why?

Almo

14:20

I guess graphics controllers still render line by line, and VSync lets you know when you can flip frame buffer to avoid tearing

that's all I can think of

user92578

yeah tearing is the belief I'm in

user92578

44

Q: What is V-Sync and when should I enable it?

Most modern 3D games have a graphics option "V-Sync". It's usually an on/off setting. I'd like to understand settings I tweak with, and this one kind of eludes me. What does "V-Sync" mean, and when should I turn it on? I've tried a few things to answer my own question: Search arqade. There'...

Almo

2600 Space Invaders also had some fucking great weird modes. Two player. I get left, you get right, either of us can shoot

Jesus Christ

Last time I was using double buffering is the student project written in WinAPI, I was writing a drawing application.

Screen was flickering each time I added a figure to the screen, so I implemented double buffering and problem got away.

Almo

:D

Jesus Christ

14:29

But it was pain, writing your first project in C++\WinAPI isn't really a good idea

user92578

WinAPI is horrible

Jesus Christ

Yep, API is bloated

user92578

I had to use in GunHero to support windowed fullscreen

user92578

One of the worst things to program, but it's an awesome feature

Jesus Christ

poor boy...

user92578

14:32

music & sound volumes should probably be configurable independently?

Jesus Christ

Yep

user92578

Yeah, looks like I have some separation stuff to do

user92578

Currently all sound goes to a single audio device

user92578

This is actually my first time implementing audio to a game

user92578

Not that I have any music to play

user92578

14:36

And currently only two sounds, one for menu hovering and one for menu button activation

Lokkij

Yeah I don't get to the point that audio needs to be implemented very often either :P

user92578

lol yeah, it's the last major thing before content creation in my task list

user92578

after this it's all 'bout levels & new level theme tilesets

user92578

and other stuff like particles & guns etc

user92578

plus everything else I can think of

user92578

14:41

I'll try to get some sound properly done

user92578

Then add a few levels, and try to do a pre-alpha-alpha-alpha pre-build

Lokkij

Haskell's /= instead of != still trips me up sometimes

Almo

hahah

looks like a *= 5

Lokkij

Yep

user92578

wow thats weird

Lokkij

14:45

Except that's totally impossible in functional languages (no mutable state)

user92578

how do you divide in-place then?

Almo

you don't

user92578

ohhh

Almo

:D

there's no mutable state

once you make something, that's it

you can take it, add something and store that somewhere else

but you can't change the original

different paradigm

I've never done functional programming

Lokkij

It's really weird to get used to, but also makes for more enjoyable programming because you don't have to constantly worry about state

Almo

14:47

I should try sometime

Lokkij

I've found the Learn You a Haskell guide to be excellent

Doesn't rush over anything, which is definitely a problem in most guides about functional programming

user92578

alll right, sound volume (as general, no individual music & sound) is now configurable

user92578

My config menu class was surprisingly clean

user92578

// Notifies all the willing (add code here) about the config changes.

user92578

I have no idea what history Tyyppi meant with "add code here"

Joe

14:52

Mythbusters Demo GPU versus CPU

►

Almo

I was tempted to lern some F#

user92578

but history Tyyppi left a comment...

Lokkij

The F# is a little bit rubbish

It goes over the parts unique to FP way too quickly

Almo

yeha seemed like it

Lokkij

That tutorial screwed up the concept of currying pretty badly for me

Almo

14:59

i learned that from Javascript The Good Parts.

don't remember it very well though

haven't used it in too long

user92578

brother was not a huge fan of the ui sounds

Lokkij

FP has so much cool stuff. Currying, operators as functions, no worries about state, pattern matching (which I love)...

It's just a bit difficult to get into

Martin Sojka

15:18

The nice thing about it is that once you grok those, you can apply functional programming ideas in other languages too. It's a bit more verbose and awkward, but it works.

Hjorthenify

@Almo What's special about F#?

Almo

No idea

Only looked at it a little bit

user4704

It's functional and runs on the CLR.

Hjorthenify

Ah. I know they teaches it as at a Uni here for getting their students into programming.

@JoshPetrie How it is compared to C#?

user4704

I dunno, it looks like functional languages look.

Hjorthenify

15:28

:P

Martin Sojka

If you prefer other VM environments, there are also functional languages for the JVM (Clojure, Scala) and LLVM (Pure) as well.

user4704

I'm not sure it's a great fit in practice, since a lot of the CLR BCL is built on stateful objects.

user4704

I've largely ignored it, other than to see the same user permabanned from two IRC channels over evangelizing it to everybdoy.

Hjorthenify

Wow

Almo

ghaHAH

Lokkij

15:37

@Hjorthenify Completely different paradigm. Programmers.SE has a question on it.

@OMGtechy Looks like the HotS patch currently on the PTR will be applied everywhere tomorrow. I can play Kharazim with you! :D

Hjorthenify

15:52

@Lokkij Ahh cool. So F# is kindof a mixture of Functional and object orientieret?

Lokkij

I think it's basically a functional language

Except it lets you cheat in mutable state if you want to

Hjorthenify

That might be why they teach it. So that they can use it from both ways.

Lokkij

I can't imagine teaching F# as a way to teach OOP. I don't think it even has classes (as seen in OOP)

user4704

you can define types and methods and stuff

user4704

but it feels very tacked-on, as far as I was able to see

Hjorthenify

16:01

I see

user4704

I'm not sure I would teach it as a way to teach OO either, just because the core concepts in OO are so foreign to those of functional languages.

user4704

(generally)

Honeybunch

16:38

After Deadmau5 performed at TI5 he's been streaming Dota and CS:GO

Hjorthenify

17:01

Where?

Aidan Mueller

17:16

Should I upgrade to Windows 10? After reading above, I'm not so sure.

Lokkij

What are you on currently?

Aidan Mueller

I mainly use Debian GNU/Linux, but I have a copy of Windows 7 that I never use just in case I need it.

Lokkij

I'm told Win10 is a definite improvement over Win8 but not necessarily over Win7

I wouldn't risk it.

Aidan Mueller

Is it faster at least?

Lokkij

No idea

Aidan Mueller

17:35

Thx then.

TheMuffinCoder

It's faster for sure

It dramatically decreased my boot time

Aidan Mueller

Ugh. Now I don't know what to do.

TheMuffinCoder

lol i also love how they improved the window system, I can easily resize windows to fit the screen together

Pip

eyo

TheMuffinCoder

Jello Pip

Aidan Mueller

17:38

Jello

TheMuffinCoder

Hey Aidan last thing, if u get win10 now u can use VS (the windows version) :D

Aidan Mueller

VS?

TheMuffinCoder

Visual Studios :P

Pip

yes

Aidan Mueller

I have W7 right now.

TheMuffinCoder

17:39

oh I thought u used linux rn :P

Aidan Mueller

Why would I want VS?

I do use Linux. But I have Windows too.

TheMuffinCoder

:P idk code in JavaScript/C# for fun

Aidan Mueller

Nah.

Can use mono for stuff like that.

Why would I want to program in JS?

I have Emscripten for a reason.

TheMuffinCoder

Self torture?

Aidan Mueller

LOL

I'll pass on that.

Pip

17:44

@JohnMcDonald I know that you aren't too active atm, but can you check out something for me? It's related to your XNA Primitives thing: github.com/craftworkgames/MonoGame.Extended/issues/31

Honeybunch

@AidanMueller If you want features yes. Windows 10 has multiple workspaces and command-line package management. However it invades your privacy by collecting all sorts of data. Some of it you can turn off but there's more that's hardcoded into the OS

If you care about privacy and freedoms I'd stay away from Windows

Win7 and 8 are also getting telemetry updates over Windows Update

Icy Defiance

18:00

personally, I don't care about telemetry, as long as the stats are anonymous (and they should be if you disable that advertising id setting)

I think the biggest problem with win10 is the most invasive shit is on by default

but if you go into settings and disable everything, everything else about the OS is great

Pip

@Honeybunch source?

Honeybunch

@Pip infoworld.com/article/2911609/operating-systems/…

Pip

thanks

Honeybunch

@IcyDefiance It still takes a picture of you the first time you plug in your webcam and it sends it to MS

Icy Defiance

wait, what the fuck? I must have missed that article

Pip

18:06

wtf

where is that

Aidan Mueller

I've come to the point where I don't use Linux because I want speed, but to the point where I actually like the free speech freedom.

Pip

I might be swapping over for good today

It depends on whether I decide to install Arch or not

I have Ubuntu installed but I'm not extremely happy with it

though the support for like... everything is nice

Alright, that settles it. I'm going to go install Arch right now

wiping Ubuntu after I back up data

or... hmm

Alright: decision to make

Upgrade to Win10 first, then kill Ubuntu (which Win10 might for me) and install Arch

or just go with Arch

hmmmmm

Icy Defiance

18:26

I can't uninstall windows because of my job, and because of games, and I cba to switch when just browsing the internet

most of the programming I don't get paid for is done on my ubuntu partition, though

Jon

Windows 10 users are getting slammed with over-usage fees

Because of the forced auto updates... lol?

"In this context, where internet access is both painfully slow and seriously expensive, these forced updates are almost literally forcing people off the internet and are resulting in massive excess data charges," Mr Lawrence said.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/computers/fears-windows-10-will-blow-data-caps-20150817-gj0i98.html#ixzz3j69dyObT
Follow us: @smh on Twitter | sydneymorningherald on Facebook

Almo

18:37

awesome

"To add insult to injury, Microsoft has confirmed it is hijacking users' internet connections to upload software updates to other users, through "peer-to-peer" technology."

Icy Defiance

that one can be disabled

the automatic updates can kind of be disabled, if you're using a metered connection, but I'm not sure how windows judges whether something is metered

Hjorthenify

@AidanMueller I updated from win7 to windows 10 and my OS is A LOT faster now. The boot time is amazing. I'd recommend that you wait a bit more before upgrading as it is still buggy. My start / search menu were bugged in such way that they couldn't be accessed which made it really annoying to open up programs.

That was until I had a nasty crash which forced me to reinstall everything and trust me. I spend hours to try to avoid doing that. Also ALL DirectX based games have a black renderer, which renders the games unplayable.

Jon

The point is... they are using your internet connection to the point that it is ridiculous

Hjorthenify

^

Jon

Fuck Microsoft, glad Unity is coming to Linux

5

Hjorthenify

18:41

@Jon Now we just need VS...

Jon

I know, and a Gimp replacement.. ugh

Almo

no gimp on linux?

Jon

i hate gimp, lol

Almo

me too

Hjorthenify

GIMP is awesome. What are you talking about?

The layout is fugly, but the functionality is great

Almo

18:43

The UI is counter intuitive

Hjorthenify

I got a free license for photoshop C6 when I brought this PC, but GIMP is so much better in my opinion

Almo

fucking hate it

Hjorthenify

You get used to it

Jon

Yeah, everytime I used GIMP, it was a pain

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

Paint Shop Pro > Photoshop > GIMP

I've used Photoshop for three years now and I still prefer PSP.

Hjorthenify

18:43

Its actually useful if you draw off something because you can have the picture in the background

Almo

I pick "Move" and it defaults to something stupid like Move Path

Hjorthenify

@William A wild cow-tipper appears!

:D

*Hjorthenify uses internal-Dane joke*
Its super effective!
*William fainted*

Aidan Mueller

GIMP needs some work, but it's cool.

Jon

man, this auto update thing is scary

they could , at any point, decide to update the OS in a way that really causes problems

And you can't stop it

Hjorthenify

@AidanMueller Isn't it open source?

Aidan Mueller

18:48

Yes.

Hjorthenify

@Jon They have beta-test groups

Which is why they say its "okay" to do so. Also corporations can decide which updates they want AFAIK

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

It's funky how people are acting out about this because it's Microsoft :P Apparently it's okay when Apple does it.

Of course, the herd loves Apple, so it's no surprise. :P

Hjorthenify

But its all for the "user experience" !

Aidan Mueller

Man, computers suck.

John McDonald

a wild programmer appears

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