It depends, yeah

currently I'm using Postgres but that limits me to the server option

I'm investigating what I could do client-side (app and desktop)

huh, looks like SQLite is usable on both major mobile platforms and desktop. I think I might go with that... even though it's stored in a file

which I guess is fine here

Yeah I'd imagine a lot of apps use it

I'll give it a go and see if I can get it working on my tablet

@Pip i hear blah blah blah HTML BAD blah blah DotA

:)

HTML is bad :)

lol it is

I finally got the scraping to work with ruby + nokogiri and then found out that Heroku doesn't fit my needs, so I'm investigating this local SQLite database thing

you ever played with it before?

have not

I've done mySQL, but not SQLite

ah, alright

sorry man

I need to learn some SQL syntax, sometime soon

I'm working on parsing this freaking HTML in C# now

it's a pain in the ass

dorks should dump their data as JSON wtf they thinkin'

I've worked with SQLite

@Almo That would be fucking amazing

@Hjorthenify how was it? and what platforms?

Unity C# and its basically a beefed down SQL

Main issue is that you cant change a table once its created. Quite annoying when developing the databases

oooh

I wrote a workaround though

what do you mean you can't change it once it's created?

Were you using developer.xamarin.com/guides/cross-platform/…?

You cant change the columns

Oh I see

Cant remember if u can add columns though

Also I had problems with remote keys. Cant remember why.

what are the advantages that make SQLite worth using?

Smaller installation (its just a single .dll) and i think its faster as well

it's portable (can use it natively on all major mobile platforms, and Windows at least)

Yeah

it's also disk-based

so it's a means of using a relational database, but with much smaller requirements.

Yeah essentially

ok that seems worthwhile to me :)

I use it for my game

it's not quite as full featured, but I think I can live with that

Works flawlessly once you are set with the database layout

cool

So I just imported the C# binding stuff that Xamarin recommends

it's one file. 3834 lines.

....

oh god SQLite doesn't support arrays

Arrays?

like... a collection of values

I could do that in PostgreSQL

select?

no, like I can't go: (typing)

class Foo
{
    Bar[] _bars;
}

I can't put that in a DB

does mySQL support putting an array into a DB?

honest question

I have no idea; I'll look it up

Don't think it does

nope, but you can imitate with a bunch of tables. I think

oh I can also store it as a blob.. maybe

@IcyDefiance input?

make a Bar table?

You'll have to write a wrapper @Pip

Oh that's true.... hm

Mind if I spit some sample data at you?

vOv

Not at all

Be aware though that my drink just arrived at the café and I'm not sure when I'll respond :P

or how coherent the eventual response will be

welp

too long for SE

Haha indeed

pastebin.com/kEUDMX6f

There's the header and one data element thing for the Best VS catagory

or... two data elements I guess

It looks like this

Okay.. Sorry i can't read that from the phone properly :P

There are 8 of those, how would I store them?

@Hjorthenify ah kk. The picture illustrates it well

dotabuff.com/heroes/abaddon <- the "Best Versus" section

Well make a column for each data you wish to store in a Foo table :P

that works I guess. Thanks

@Jon helped me a lot with SQL

good to know

hey on sql

if I have a table of (ContestID, UserID, Entry) where there can be duplicates of any one of these, but not a row where all three are the same, does an aggregate index of all three mean that I can have a fuckton of rows and SQL commands on it will still not become super slow?

I... think so?

this is a potential issue with LowDown... the Entry table grows without limit, but there can't be exact duplicate rows.

they're all ints

I don't actually have an index on it, and I don't know what clustering is

I'm looking to deal with this issue now

either by some clever indexing thing, or by running a cron job once a month to archive old entry data.

but then how do I reference the "Best VS" and "Worst VS" tables in the "Hero" table? @JoshPetrie @Hjorthenify

so I could make the contest id the index (not unique), but set it to cluster, then it will know to "sort" them by that index?

@Pip other way around. the best/worst tables would have foreign keys to the hero.

just a sec

oh I see... hm

@Pip also you can probably merge the best/worst tables with a char(1) column that is 'B' for best and 'W' for worst

if you want

    $entryQuery = "SELECT entry, COUNT(*) as count FROM ld_entries WHERE contestid = $contestid GROUP BY entry ORDER BY COUNT(*), entry;";
    $entryResult = mysql_query($entryQuery) or die(mysql_error());

@IcyDefiance oh that's clever

                $winnerQuery = "SELECT ent.userid
                                FROM ld_entries AS ent,
                                     ld_users AS usr
                                WHERE ent.contestid = $contestid
                                  AND ent.entry = $lowestNumber
                                  AND ent.userid = usr.userid";

stuff like that

ok, I'll do that then. thanks :)

yeah it's mySQL

ok thanks dude

So, for my question

if we swap the users with heros

would that be the ideal table layout?

sounds reasonable

The active_relationships table would have the VS info, like "Worst/Best", the advantage, win rate, and match quantity

Would you make any modifications?

Complex SQL queries are fucking magic I tell you.

There are 110 heros

each one has it's 8 best vs and 8 worst vs

hahahah LoL has more heroes. hahahaha

;)

@Almo you sh (/bin/sh to be exact) :P

@JoshPetrie Yeah, that's my issue. I can't store all of the heros recursively like that

^

active_relationships (call it matchups maybe?) could have a FK hero, FK against, then win rate and whatever metadata you want, and you could get the 8 best and 8 worst by sorting by win rate

oh I see

mhm

I don't think so

A hero being bad against another doesn't mean it's in the top 8 "best against"

I like that I think

Basically I'm using this for a teambuilder

so if you plug in a team of heros it'll give you some recommendations based on what heros are good against them

and also other factors, but that's the major one

Alright, cool

since we're all talking about programming problems now, apparently removing metadata from jpegs (to keep personal info from being uploaded) totally screws them up when they use non-rgb color formats, like cmyk or ycck

So, let me recap. I have a table with "hero id", "opposing id", metadata, "best/worst". Correct?

worse, the ColorSpace tag is under the same "application marker" as gps coords, so I can't just not remove that part

thanks a lot!

So @JoshPetrie

class VSMetadata
{
	public VSMetaData() {}

	int HeroID;
	int OpposingID;

	boolean Best; // or worst
	float Advantage;
	float WinRate;
	int Matches;
}

the SQLite binding I'm using requires each row to be a C# object

Think that'll work for mine?

Advantage is always positive

for the Worst VS ones it's the opposing hero's advantage

Dunning-Kruger effect. Understand it in how it relates to you, and how you relate to others. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

@Chris I just randomed Techies two times in a row XD

You can tell I suicided a lot (8 times I guess)

I really don't like the Dunning-Kruger effect, mainly because people use it to claim everyone has equal intelligence and the opinions of everyone are equally valid

well that's not what D-K means. those people are just being dumb

kind of. they say it's not possible to know you're smarter than someone else.

@IcyDefiance I do believe people are equally intelligent, but not due to D-K and I don't think opinions are equally valid.

@IcyDefiance They don't understand D-K.

Someone who's really good, recognizes the things they don't know, and therefore rate themselves not as highly as they might. But they're certainly capable of seeing that they know more about a subject than someone who knows less.

@OMGtechy I'd say everyone has equal potential, but intelligence must be earned. The "lazy genius" doesn't exist after high school.

You'd be wrong if you say everyone has equal potential.

How can you say that objectively?

People reach different percentages of their potential, so someone with higher potential might be less skilled than someone with lower potential through differences in effort.

mental illness gets in the way, and some people learn differently than others (which schools often do a horrible job of adapting to), but I've never seen a person hit the limit of their potential, if there is one

Other than the physical limits, I doubt it.

Even then, we can use technology to empower us.

now you're using sophistry to cling to your overly-simplistic statement that everyone has the same potential.

I don't think we can measure it, so we can't say someone has more than another.

everyone does have the same potential: seemingly infinite. though it probably would be better to just say potential can't be measured.

on that count I just said "equal potential" as a transition from techy's "equally intelligent"

oh boy, lots of fun. integrating my serializer into their engine now

wish me luck

Good luck :P

the actual point was to make a distinction between potential and actual intelligence

Yeah, I don't deny that some people are more academic than others, but intelligent? I doubt it.

i.e. some professional sports players appear unintelligent, but then you realise their skill in their field, so they must have some kind of field specific intelligence.

there are a lot of incredibly stupid people in the world. claiming they're just as intelligent as a top scientist or even just us...that's twisted.

Something I would not be able to come close to, I think.

and just because some people appear stupid until you realize otherwise doesn't mean stupid people don't exist

I can work with that, I just think that the people I'd think of as stupid are actually just intelligent in a way that I haven't seen.

again, it comes down to effort. professional sports players put far more effort into their game than even I put into programming, and while much of that goes into physical ability, a lot goes into game knowledge as well, which could be considered intelligence.

Exactly, and reaction speeds etc.

Having less intelligence and not your intelligence is the distinction I'm trying to make

but your 400 lb southern baptist who wants to teach creationism in schools because some pastor said evolution was the devil's work...

@IcyDefiance that's not a lack of intelligence at all, even though I hate such things

or your vegan anti-vaccer who is literally risking her kids lives because some blog post mentioned mercury

those people are just really fucking stupid

ahaha

Ignorant might be a better word

Is it bad that I'm using MVC in my app?

@Pip not at all

I think Rails concepts have leached into the rest of my coding

ignorant and stupid are nearly the same thing, only difference being ignorance may be field-specific

Well, Googles Android course teaches MVC as a way to make Android apps @Pip

cool

@IcyDefiance A lack of knowledge is not stupidity

It's what I'm doing, so good to know

@Pip nope, nothing wrong with that.

no that's literally the definition of stupidity

I am not stupid, but I know fuck all about the world of maths

if you want to be less stupid then learn some things

just don't get any M into your V or C.

that can fuck things up

@Almo or your Y in your M and your C in your A

hahaha

@OMGtechy that's what I meant by ignorance being field-specific

AHAHAHA

LOL

hahah

relevant to that, one minute time machine: youtube.com/watch?v=vBkBS4O3yvY

@IcyDefiance I am ignorant of maths, but I am not stupid. That's my point.

Point stands.

point is literally repeating what I said

:P

@IcyDefiance I don't agree, but this doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

you're trying to defeat my arguments by actually using examples of my arguments.

Shall we agree to disagree?

actually when put that way it's pretty hilarious

Chill.

dishonesty pisses me off. I'm fine with disagreeing with people, but not when they refuse to understand the things I say just because they're afraid of my points making sense.

I am not refusing to understand. I am disagreeing. Welcome to The Internet. Now...

both sides must be willing to understand the other person

You're doing what my mother-in-law does. If you don't agree with her, she assumes you don't understand. This carries the implication that she always thinks she's right.

@IcyDefiance that's awesome

no I'm saying he doesn't understand because he's literally using examples supporting my arguments and thinks he's contradicting me

just because a dumbass also uses an argument doesn't mean the argument is always invalid

I haven't followed this closely, but calling OMGTechy a dumbass... just doesn't seem right.

I didn't call him a dumbass

He's clearly not a dumbass.

you intimated it

I only used that word once, just now, and it wasn't referring to techy

ok, it seemed like it :)

no idea how you interpreted it that way...maybe I'm just not seeing something...but admitting to misinterpreting it is impressive compared to most of the arguments I've had here lately

so this is why planetside 2 went down, lol forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2015/07/10/…

fucking lizard squad again

that's horrible

Just going to point this out

....

deadpool is the first movie I've looked forward to in a long time

What's the premise? (ping me please, gotta go take care of dogs)

hahahaha

@Pip it's just deadpool. and deadpool is awesome. I'll see if I can find the preview thing that was made public a while ago...

geez the test footage is being removed from everywhere, even though it was officially released

can't find a place that still has it

Lizard Squad i DDoSing Planetside again..

dorkz

@Pip yes! here it is! dailymotion.com/video/…

Remakes are getting ridiculous... jesus fucken christ

looks like crap compared to the original

remaking The Wall?

wtf

no Gerald Scarfe, I guess

@IcyDefiance thanks!

AMAZING

I can't wait to see that

watch the original @Pip

this one looks like a glorified concert video

The original Deadpool? There is one?

I think Jon thought you were calling his video amazing

ah I see

yeah you pissed me off there for a sec

lol

NOIZE

love this one

Ministry, haha

from what appears to be their best album

I haven't heard a better one, though I haven't heard anything after Dark Side of the Spoon

which is as good as its title implies

too much Revolting Cocks on it, not enough Ministry.

used to listen to that in high school, lol

that track has a 6-bar guitar line, which is why it has an off-kilter feel to it

Soon I discovered that this Rock thing was true. Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil. Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet. All of a sudden I found myself in love with the world, so there was only one thing that I could do: DING A DING DANG MY DANG A LONG LING LONG.

Anyone got an idea how to parse website HTML in C#?

I've used Python and Beautifulsoup, and Ruby and Nokogiri

but I need to do it in C# now, or Java is an option I guess. Though I prefer C#

@Pip not regex ;D

depends what info you wanna get really

lol

uh

I'm scraping a bunch of info from DotaBuff

so... here's an example page: dotabuff.com/heroes/abaddon

page not found

so many top down shooters on the steam recently released page

do people really like arena based shooters that don't even have a world to explore?

I fixed the link; I was missing an "e" in heroes

@bazola apparently

depends on how well the core mechanics are tuned tbh

for me anyway

So Techy

from that page, I want the lane presence stuff, the best vs, and the worst vs

for a start

I can do it with Nokogiri but I can't use Ruby on Android without some JRuby hacking which I don't want to do

You could search for the div classes

yeah I'm going to have to

I can discard anything outside of the "primary" tag

so I can probably straight up regex or search that

then there's 6 sections

don't use regex!

:P

I want numbers 0, 3, and 4 IIRC

You'll have to find the section you're looking for, and then look for the div classes that appear after that

etc.

Those aren't even div classes, those are actual tags

For example, the hero that is next to:

<div class="image-container image-container-icon image-container-hero"><a href="/heroes/juggernaut"><img alt="Juggernaut" class="image-icon image-hero" rel="tooltip-remote" data-tooltip-url="/heroes/juggernaut/tooltip" src="https://dotabuff-cdn.a.ssl.fastly.net/assets/heroes/juggernaut-a7f664a1b7cc‌​b4beb2c6707ab2f1d6f10465f4613c34e05a9880ead8f3045773.png" data-hasqtip="24" oldtitle="Juggernaut" title=""></a></div>

oops

 image-container-hero

yeah, I'll have to figure that out too

yeah don't use regex

@Almo :D

You may as well parse it in serial with some kind of mini state machine

@OMGtechy i mean i can have fun for 10 minutes or so, but then the rest of the experience just feels redundant since you are just walking in circles around the same little box

depends on the game again, but for some of them I find if they're skill based they're usually allowed to not vary their content as much

since I'm more interested in out-skilling the other peeps

HAHAHA the DotNetPerls site uses regex in their example: dotnetperls.com/scraping-html