Game Development

OMGtechy

02:00

are you a fan of lazy evaluation?

Icy Defiance

lazy evaluation... like most of linq?

OMGtechy

if(a && y) // if a is false y doesn't get evaluated

SpartanDonut

First I've heard the term

ah

I use that on occasion yeah

Depends on how long the conditions are

Icy Defiance

oh, yeah, big fan. if someone ever only uses one & that's usually bad code.

OMGtechy

pros are obvious, if(a != null && a.foo())

cons? if(a != null && ++a == 1)

SpartanDonut

02:02

wat

MLM

Trying to be clever usually is bad for maintainability

Icy Defiance

that example right there is the only time I've ever seen one &, and it's horrible practice.

OMGtechy

@MLM very true

SpartanDonut

I don't understand the example

OMGtechy

@SpartanDonut because it's being lazy, ++a wont happen

Icy Defiance

02:03

@SpartanDonut if a != null, then it increments a, then it tests if a == 1

if a == null, then a does not get incremented

horrible practice. never increment things inside those parenthesis. do it inside the body of the if statement instead.

SpartanDonut

but a would be null...

I think a better example would be

well no

I don't know

I wouldn't write code like that but what you say is expected behavior so if you write it like that I don't see the problem

OMGtechy

if(a == b && ++a == c)

SpartanDonut

++null makes no sense

Icy Defiance

well yeah, you wouldn't want a to be incremented if it's null. I'm just saying not to increment things right there under any circumstances.

OMGtechy

It is done sadly, a lot

Like @MLM says, trying to be clever is rarely good

Icy Defiance

02:06

if(a == b && ++a == c)
if(a == b & ++a == c)

these are drastically different things

SpartanDonut

I guess I feel that point isn't actually a con of lazy evaluation and just bad code

OMGtechy

@IcyDefiance yes, but what's your point?

MLM

@SpartanDonut agreed

OMGtechy

@SpartanDonut indeed

SpartanDonut

Yay! I didn't actually miss the point

OMGtechy

02:07

but given the chance to be stupid, people will be stupid. The same applies to macros

SpartanDonut

because there wasn't one...

Icy Defiance

@OMGtechy my point is the only time that the latter is used is in very bad code. if you just force the former, nothing important will be lost.

OMGtechy

@IcyDefiance they do totally different things?

SpartanDonut

@@@@@@@@@

OMGtechy

they're not for the same purpsoe

bitwise operators vs logical operators

SpartanDonut

02:08

I'll do my bitwise operations outside an if statement

OMGtechy

One thing I want to add into my language is some syntax sugar for bit manipulation

Icy Defiance

in C# or Java they're not bitwise operators. I mean they can be, but right there they aren't.

OMGtechy

whhhhhatt?!?!

SpartanDonut

I think he's lying

OMGtechy

I hope so

Icy Defiance

02:09

in C# and Java, && is lazy evaluation and & is eager evaluation, when applied to two booleans

when applied to anything other than a boolean, then & becomes bitwise

this is necessary, because bitwise operators in C# and Java return int, and if statements can't work with ints like they do in C++

SpartanDonut

so it is

I've never used it as such

And never will

(I think)

OMGtechy

That's so horrible I can't even express how much I hate it

SpartanDonut

I've used them for bitwise in creating bitmasks for unity raycastding and that's about it

Icy Defiance

I have never used eager evaluation outside of little experiments, and I have no plans to use it

OMGtechy

actually, I take that back

because I can't imagine using such bitwise operations on booleans

SpartanDonut

02:11

[From MSDN](http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/sbf85k1c.aspx) Binary & operators are predefined for the integral types and bool. For integral types, & computes the logical bitwise AND of its operands. For bool operands, & computes the logical AND of its operands; that is, the result is true if and only if both its operands are true.
The & operator evaluates both operators regardless of the first one's value.

uhhh

I have no clue why that isn't working

OMGtechy

it hates you

Icy Defiance

here, one sec. I'll create an example.

SpartanDonut

I give up

Icy Defiance

I'll use || instead of &&, just because the example is simpler, but the point is the same

SpartanDonut

| instead of &?

Icy Defiance

02:15

yes

SpartanDonut

I guess I'll know when I see the example

haha ok

the || and && confused me

Icy Defiance

static void Main(string[] args)
{
    int x = 0;
    if (true || ++x == 1)
        Console.WriteLine(x);
    if (true | ++x == 1)
        Console.WriteLine(x);
}

that's the code

and it outputs...
0
1

ElfSlice

Ascii particle effects

6

neat!

SpartanDonut

@IcyDefiance makes sense since I read the docs. Still feels like a bad idea to use the eager evaluation approach (which I believe is what you were saying as well)

So we all agree!

@ElfSlice Really nice aesthetic actually

ElfSlice

check out his UI work on the game too

Icy Defiance

02:18

@SpartanDonut the only time it's a good idea to use eager evaluation is when you want x to be incremented every time you reach the if statement. but you can just increment it before the if statement instead, and it's better practice to do so.

SpartanDonut

I'd agree

Icy Defiance

that is...
if (true | ++x == 1)
is exactly the same as...
x++;
if (true || x == 1)

SpartanDonut

It's an easy to misinterpret sort of situation so it's much better to be explicit about your intent even though the docs are clear

OMGtechy

@IcyDefiance finally got monogame up and running ahah

SpartanDonut

huzzah!

Icy Defiance

02:19

whoo

OMGtechy

stupid mac

oh wait

it can't open the solution

what did you make it with?

SpartanDonut

lol

Visual Studio no doubt

OMGtechy

don't tell me visual studio

that totally mac and linux friendly solution ;)

Icy Defiance

yes, VS, but I thought monodevelop can open VS solutions...

one sec. I'll fix this.

SpartanDonut

You should probably get a windows machine and download 2013 community edition

OMGtechy

02:20

I have VS 2013 ultimate on my PC

SpartanDonut

because PC master race

OMGtechy

Xamarin on here

SpartanDonut

Ooo

OMGtechy

actually, it might not be vs that's the problem

Icy Defiance

oh, monodevelop can open VS solutions, but it doesn't like the content project

OMGtechy

02:21

there's a content project

and a contentcontent project

SpartanDonut

guys. I think the content project is the problem

OMGtechy

aha

Icy Defiance

yeah the contentcontent project is necessary. it's one of the annoyances of monogame I was talking about.

might be able to think of a better name later

OMGtechy

I've never had it before?

SpartanDonut

whats content content?

houses compiled XNBs?

Icy Defiance

02:23

content does the compiling, contentcontent houses the content before it's compiled...or something odd like that. I haven't figured it out entirely.

OMGtechy

Why not ContentRaw and ContentCompiled?

SpartanDonut

I was guessing Content was the content (gets compiled by XNA) and outputs XNB to content content where content content outputs (copies) the XNB to the build folder

If you figure it out let me know because I'm curious lol

OMGtechy

not enough content

Icy Defiance

@OMGtechy might work. the names there are just the default ones I got when I created the thing. I didn't bother to change them.

OMGtechy

when I make a monogame project I don't get all that crap

Icy Defiance

02:25

but when you make a monogame content project you get both content and contentcontent

without the content project then you need to use XNA to compile things

I didn't want to do that

OMGtechy

not IIRC...I remember using it on ubuntu

let me check the current state of things

Icy Defiance

you can load image and mesh files directly without compiling them, which is probably what you did before

but you can't do the same with spritefonts

OMGtechy

it says not to use the content projects anymore

so I won't

Icy Defiance

wait, what?

OMGtechy

actually I think I misread

there's a nuget package for content

think that's something else

when I make a monogame project I just make a solution, then use nuget to add monogame

rm -rf Monogame

think I might just go use my linux box and be happy again

Icy Defiance

02:29

I have no idea what nuget might do

OMGtechy

depends which package you use

Icy Defiance

only things I've ever used it for were MoreLinq and SharpDX, and in both cases the only thing it did was download dll files

OMGtechy

I'll give it oneeee moreee o

go*

Icy Defiance

need to get the latest version of monodevelop on my computer instead of the crap included with unity

I think monodevelop just needs to know wtf monogame is

OMGtechy

UnityVS would be great if the debugger worked

Icy Defiance

02:34

and it doesn't by default

OMGtechy

Well Xamarin in this case, but same diff

Icy Defiance

it's still monodevelop to meee! D:

OMGtechy

ahaha

I'll try a punch it into working hang on

bingo, found some 3.2 templates

still can't open the contentcontent project

is it worth me creating the project and you using that? It's more more likely to work that wa around I think

and we could use vector graphics rather than textures

SpartanDonut

@OMGtechy debugger works great if you remember to import the package to your project

Icy Defiance

I am interested in how you can compile content without either a content project or xna

OMGtechy

02:42

@SpartanDonut ooo, I'll look into that

SpartanDonut

From Unity -> Assets -> Import Package -> Visual Studio 2013 Tools

OMGtechy

i don't know, I just did things the way I always did, and there was a processed file at the end of it

it was a while back now

@SpartanDonut thanks

SpartanDonut

I always forget that step when I haven't worked with it in a while

Everything but debugging works if you don't import that package it seems

And that's the missing link for debugging

OMGtechy

@IcyDefiance it really really REALLY doesn't want to work on mac

well done Monogame, you crossplatform tool that only works on one platform

ahaha

well, that's not true but it's certainly not simple to get this working

Icy Defiance

yeah, if you have a way that works, just use that

I can't get it working on xamarin studio here either

if this was xna I'd have a ship flying around already :'(

SpartanDonut

02:48

Yeah I'm a spoiled MS stack developer and I like it that way.

OMGtechy

@IcyDefiance it'd be no different with XNA, because it still wouldn't work on my mac :P

I think I've almost got it

Icy Defiance

also why doesn't xamarin have a dark theme? :'(

so blinding

why doesn't this chat have a dark theme either?

5

SpartanDonut

Yeah but in the case of XNA we can just shrug our shoulders and say "use your PC"

OMGtechy

nope it's screwed

SpartanDonut

I've thought about putting together a user script for that

Maybe I'll make that a project this weekend

Icy Defiance

02:52

OMG are you able to just recreate the project your way?

or is that fucked on a mac too?

OMGtechy

I can try

SpartanDonut

lolol

OMGtechy

Let me see...

SpartanDonut

Getting out FireFox Developer edition for this

OMGtechy

If we'd used Unity, we'd already be sorted by now. Just saying ;) @IcyDefiance

Icy Defiance

02:54

nah, then I'd be spending the whole night watching video tutorials

and fuck video tutorials. I don't learn things that aren't in text form.

SpartanDonut

On the plus side, Unity only takes one night of video tutorials

OMGtechy

we're gunna be spending the night doing this instead it seems

SpartanDonut

Once you understand the different bits of the editor Unity is so easy

OMGtechy

Cmon, make the leap, it's great

Icy Defiance

but lowercase public variables :'(

SpartanDonut

02:55

We promises you won't get addicted

OMGtechy

When I first saw Unity, I said it was horrible and I wanted nothing to do with it. It took two years for me to even go near it again.

Now I think it's awesome

SpartanDonut

I've been hooked ever since the 2D tools came out

Icy Defiance

I've actually tried unity for a couple hours, but video tutorials pissed me off

OMGtechy

Why not just ask us?

I'm having to teach someone Unity atm anyway

Icy Defiance

might be able to

SpartanDonut

02:56

People here like you enough we could probably make a separate room and help you through the early stages

OMGtechy

enough

JUST enough

or you can just ask here

Icy Defiance

the thing I'm most scared of is doing reflection in unity. importing scripts from other languages and fun stuff like that.

OMGtechy

most of it is pretty easy

well some people have their levels saved as XML rather than scenes

you have C# so you can do whatever really

Icy Defiance

not for levels. for the AI code.

OMGtechy

Why not define a format for it and have it deserialised?

or just throw some python in there

Icy Defiance

02:58

oh!

omg, I think I have what you need

github.com/mono/MonoGame/wiki/…

OMGtechy

nope, that doen't work

tried it

tried an update version too

cmoooon ;)

Unnnnittyyyy

btw we should stick it on bitbucket if we do that

actually nvm

it's 3am here anyway

I strongly recommend creating a Unity project

I'll even do it for you

Icy Defiance

it's 10 pm here too. I might be done fighting with this for tonight. maybe tomorrow I'll play with unity and see if I can figure something out.

I can't load the unity download page anyway, for some reason

OMGtechy

well

Icy Defiance

homepage works fine, download page doesn't. wtf.

like a sign from god. "don't use this" it says.

lol

OMGtechy

just going to leave this here @IcyDefiance

github.com/OMGtechy/AIsteroids

and now I must go

we can discuss this tomorrow

well, today for me

Icy Defiance

03:10

aight

I got the 4.6 download page to work

OMGtechy

wahey!

gnight

Icy Defiance

o/

Pip

03:24

heyo!

Aww.... just missed @OMGtechy

SpartanDonut

@IcyDefiance it's a start - pastebin.com/ZPRDGbAu

slightly adjusted the current user message text so its more readable - pastebin.com/2GUgUtJU

good enough for tonight

I already like it better :D

Going to have to polish this

Probably make it less grey

More blues I think

Icy Defiance

03:40

odd, it doesn't change the message color for me, just the background

SpartanDonut

I built it in firefox and am using it in chrome so it should work in those two =/

In chrome I'm using the "Stylish" extension

Icy Defiance

yeah same here

and the css should be right

SpartanDonut

Now I need to make a dark twitch theme

Icy Defiance

oh, closing and reopening the tab fixed it

SpartanDonut

looks like there are already some good themes out there for twitch actually

huzzah

But yeah I'll see about getting a nice background image, cleaning up the sections for consistency, and adding some color

Good enough for now though

Icy Defiance

03:44

userstyles.org/styles/96444/…

a little more complete than yours

SpartanDonut

Saw that. Didn't like how it was by default. Might use it as a base though

Icy Defiance

yeah that's what I'm planning to do. I'll probably change the colors to to be like solarized dark.

SpartanDonut

The diablo bit of the battle.net launcher was going to be my inspiration for colors - i.imgur.com/M76o5WR.jpg

solarized dark is my VS theme though :D

If you're on twitch a lot, this is the one I just installed and really like - userstyles.org/styles/105577/twitch-dark-view-evo

Icy Defiance

not a lot, but enough to be worth it. thanks.

Icy Defiance

04:05

got black google too

I'll probably just replace things with black versions every time I get blinded :D

SpartanDonut

I approve

Icy Defiance

[heads upstairs and replaces white family with black one]

SpartanDonut

lol oh god

AttackingHobo

Gear VR is the coolest thing I've ever bought.

SpartanDonut

do you have a rift?

AttackingHobo

04:07

I have a dk1

SpartanDonut

ah ya

so that won't be as nice

AttackingHobo

gear vr is so spot on though

its so much more polished than dk2

super easy to set up

can literally load up a demo then hand it to a person

you can use it without the straps for light demos

its nice

SpartanDonut

oh sure

I could see that

wireless is a bonus too

AttackingHobo

The straps take <10 seconds to take off

yeah. You can sit in an office chair and spin

the headtracking is literally flawless

So spot on. no lag at all

SpartanDonut

Was there lag with cardboard?

AttackingHobo

04:09

no stutter during the main part of all the apps. occasional stutter right in first second of some

@SpartanDonut Yes, there is a lot of lag on cardboard.

SpartanDonut

Cool

AttackingHobo

Gear VR has no motion blur when moving your head

Everything is sharp.

Resolution is amazing. Watching movies on it is great

It's just so fast to set up to. pop in phone, pop on face

SpartanDonut

Ooo can you get Avatar on it?

AttackingHobo

hmm?

SpartanDonut

The big 3D movie that came out several years ago

AttackingHobo

04:12

Yeah

You can download any movie

And put it onto micro sd card

SpartanDonut

Would be cool to watch an actual 3D movie with a VR headset. Avatar seems like the right choice

AttackingHobo

3d is so bright too

SpartanDonut

That's my gripe about 3d glasses - the darkness

AttackingHobo

Full AMOLED brightness 3d. its mind blowing

SpartanDonut

I bet

AttackingHobo

04:13

on the moon

its nearly photorealistic moon landscape

SpartanDonut

Nice. People just show me that damn roller coaster demo every time so I don't have any idea what that's like

AttackingHobo

moon theater is great

the screen is like ambient light in the room

so it lights up the moon

Pip

nice

frustrated with rest of programming team..... they just discarded a ton of work that I did over the past two weeks.......

I want so bad to say "fuck you" and put my own code on the brick :/

SpartanDonut

well why was it discarded?

@IcyDefiance damnit I was just blinded by the main site

Icy Defiance

lol

Joe

04:30

watch out... here goes nothing

AttackingHobo

Joe

damn 23 is just irresponsible

i never beat 17

AttackingHobo

haha

make sure you play with sound

Almo

hahah

yeah, sound helps

AttackingHobo

Almo

04:34

keep forgetting

don't play with FF on mac

horrible for gaming

works better with safari

AttackingHobo

Hmmm

I haven't uploaded this yet

Joe

ok i think ive officially ruled out wild west theme...

MLM

22: i.imgur.com/ZDbOfdw.png

Icy Defiance

tied hobo

MLM

Joe

04:41

what should i try first... a wave after wave mode procedurally? or a static level

AttackingHobo

BOTH @Joe

spawn stuff randomly but have set stuff too

MLM

04:59

can't get past 27: i.imgur.com/W1kN16T.png

AttackingHobo

impressive

Joe

05:18

oooo

AttackingHobo

not actualy 35

Joe

lol oh cheater

AttackingHobo

its the default text

in the editor

There we go

user92578

06:39

My in-game value tweaker is working great, and I already put it to use by determining a text size that is readable and doesn't mess up the pixels!

user92578

the right side sliders are rendered by the game tweaker class, and it can take any float pointer, and given a range for the value and a display name the float value will be changed run time!

user92578

I'll also probably add entry boxes for strings and maybe toggle buttons for booleans

user92578

06:54

taking a haircut, bbl

user92578

08:52

slider now works for int pointers too!

user92578

tweaking and customization everywhere!

user92578

09:17

user92578

the lower box is an entry box that is bound to the text in the button (topmost)

user92578

needs work on the visual stuff but the basic functionality works and it's awesome!

AttackingHobo

@Tyyppi_77 cool

user92578

not sure how usefull it is to actually edit strings runtime, but it is very cool on float and int values

AttackingHobo

@Tyyppi_77 add color ranges for background

user92578

09:21

I can do that (the ColorR slider changes the R component of the sky color, but it's currently just for testing, as is pretty much the whole program)

AttackingHobo

09:45

@Almo you ready to have your mind blown?

@Almo check it out! pretentiousarts.com/RadStacking2

@Tyyppi_77 check it out ^

Lokkij

@AttackingHobo Looks awesome!

user92578

awesome, I really love the "stack history" in the background

Lokkij

Though I'd probably place the score text a bit higher on the screen

user92578

to be honest, I kinda liked the old front view more

AttackingHobo

@Tyyppi_77 hmmmm stack is pretty cool but hmm I guees the front view might be better....

Almo

09:58

looks the same to me

ah refresh

I prefer the plainer view actually, but you know I'm a purist :)

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