Game Development

Gajoo

00:03

an example of good iranian game: bigfishgames.com/download-games/17943/shaban/index.html

user1895420

00:56

Guys, i'm trying to understand component based systems. Does anyone know of any examples?

user4704

@user1895420 What don't you understand?

user1895420

I don't think i've got a precise problem, which is why i'm looking for some example code :P

user4704

What do you expect to learn by just reading code though? It's extremely difficult to understand the "why" of most code, which means you often just end up copying things without a full understanding. Source code alone is a pretty poor learning medium.

user4704

You must have some idea why you are confused, though.

user4704

Otherwise you wouldn't know to ask for help.

user1895420

00:59

haha that's true

i've been reading up on the ideas in this blog : t-machine.org/index.php/2007/09/03/…

user4704

Hrm.

user1895420

But somewhere in there he sais something like: "entities should only store an identifier"

says*

user4704

That's not my favorite site.

user1895420

not good?

Damn the internet and it's bad sources

user4704

You just need to treat it with a grain of salt like anything else.

user4704

01:01

So what's your confusion about storing an identifier?

user1895420

Well he stresses that that's "all" an entity should store

user4704

That's one way to do it.

user4704

It's not the only way. The fundamental idea he's going for there (if I recall correctly) is valid.

user1895420

So how then do i connect components to this entity?

user4704

It's the different between considering an entity to be: struct entity { std::vector<Component *> m_components; }

user1895420

01:03

If it's not allowed to store any references to them

user4704

and struct entity { int id; }

user1895420

yea

user4704

And elsewhere, having a list of components associated with particular entities (conceptually: std::map<int, component *>, although that may not be the best specific implementation choice for a container)

user4704

The first approach (the list-of-components approach) is the naive one.

user1895420

So why not just store the components in the entity?

user4704

01:04

It's quite functional however, and you can certainly make a system that way. It may be the better way to start out as it can be less confusing and less effort.

user4704

There are several reasons it is potentially bad, though.

user4704

The first is that it implies you do: foreach (entity in world) { foreach (component in entity) component.update(); } }, right?

user1895420

Less confusing for sure :P

user4704

(well actually that's the main reason it's bad, but it leads to the other problems)

user4704

So what do you think might be a problem with that kind of update loop?

user4704

01:07

There are at least three big ones.

user1895420

one sec, trying to write down my thoughts :P

I think i'm misunderstanding something, i thought components would only carry data. You would then select Entities with certain components and update them through some sort of System.

user4704

That's one way to do it.

user1895420

oh god i'm going to make some sort of frankencode

user4704

It's not a wrong way, it's just different. You can consider components as data-only, and that tends to remove the explicit update method, but at some point that data usually gets updated.

Evan

But you learn so much from doing things that way :)

user1895420

01:09

haha yea that's true

Evan

If you did things perfect the first time, you wouldnt learn much.

user4704

So there's still effectively the same process. You go through every entity, through all its components, and update them.

user1895420

yea it seems so

user4704

Really, as an aside, there's something about component-based entity systems that seems to really mentally trip a lot of people up. There's no one true way to do it and you shouldn't worry about finding that one true way. You waste a lot of time that way. So I encourage you to experiment with various implementations and consider the pros and cons. You will learn much more that way.

user4704

That said, I'll tell you the potential issues with the first approach if you like.

user1895420

01:12

I don't think there's ever one true way :P

please enlighten me :)

user4704

So, the first approach, at least that implementation, requires runtime dispatch of the update method (since you use polymorphism to store all the component pointers as pointers-to-base). Not huge, but it can add up.

user4704

A bigger issue, however, is that the components within an entity, and their ordering in the list, aren't defined.

user4704

That means you have very poor locality of reference in your code cache when you do that huge iteration.

user1895420

What does that mean, locality of reference?

Evan

Stepping into the wonderful domain where data oriented and data oriented designs fight each other :P

user4704

01:15

@user1895420 Similar things stored next to eachother, essentially. Or similar things accessed in groups.

user4704

You basically update the components in any order. You might do "position, health, render, health, health, position, render, render," for example.

Evan

data oriented and object oriented designs*

user4704

Each time you jump to completely different locations in memory, which may not be in your cache, so you pay for a cache miss.

user1895420

Ah i see, so that can slow down everything

user4704

Locality of reference is the reason that arrays are almost always better than linked lists.

user4704

01:17

Even for iterating across every element in the list, which appears to be algorithmically similar in complexity.

user4704

So, the biggest issue, which is related to the last one, is that there is no sane way to federate that update loop across multiple threads without knowing a lot about the data dependencies of each component relative to all other components in the system.

user4704

So, it can be very difficult to efficiently distribute the processing of all components over all your available cores.

user4704

That's where the alternative approach of making an entity "just" an ID comes into play.

user4704

This is also known as an "outboard" approach: gamedev.net/topic/…

user1895420

How does that take away the problem then?

user4704

01:20

Essentially, you have various interfaces (often called "systems" but they need not be all inherited from some ISystem interface, per se) that create and own the individual components.

user4704

So you might have a system for physics, say PhysicsWorld. And a system for rendering, say Visualizer.

user4704

The actual entity system exposes hooks to allow you to connect callbacks for when entities are created or destroyed.

user4704

So, when you say entitySystem->CreateEntity(), the entity system creates a new entity object, assigns it an ID, and raises an event saying "Entity 32 was just created!"

user4704

(and similarly when an entity is deleted).

user4704

Any interested systems can inspect the entity ID -- and probably in practice the entity data file that describes what components should be in the entity -- and decide if it needs to create a corresponding component.

user4704

01:22

So, the physics system might create a RigidBody and associate it with entity ID 32.

user4704

The visualizer might create a sprite and associate it with entity 32.

user4704

But maybe the audio system says "I don't need to deal with entity 32 since his data description doesn't say he has an audio component."

user4704

And so it does nothing.

user1895420

I see, so the components are stored at the systems, no at the entities.

user4704

Yup.

user4704

01:24

And you can Update() the entity system, which goes through all its components and updates them, if needed.

user4704

This way, every component in the system can be interacted with via its concrete type, and no virtual function calls are required. You update a lot of the same components with one call (and those components are probably stored next to eachother) for improved locality of reference.

user4704

And you know there are no concrete physical dependencies between systems, since the components have no direct access to eachother and don't even neccessarily know they are "components" in the sense of being inherited from IComponent.

user4704

That means you can update physics and rendering on two different threads, potentially

user4704

(although in practice, physics and rendering do often have a logical dependency that means you'd want to serialize their update, but other things don't)

user1895420

So what if a system uses two different components? Or needs a component created by another system?

Or should that not be possible

user4704

01:27

A system can create as many different types of "components" as it needs for a given entity.

user4704

If the visualizer needs to create both a 2D sprite and a 3D model for a thing, it can. It can store and manage those as best suites the needs and performance of the system.

user1895420

So what if one system creates a 'physicsComponent' and another system wants to use it?

user4704

If you need access to other types of components from other systems, you need to fabricate a means of establishing that dependency.

user4704

That's one of the potential disadvantages of this approach (although I would argue it's still mostly an advantage, because it forces you to be very explicitly about which types of systems can communicate with other systems)

user1895420

Dang, it gets complicated quite quickly.

user4704

01:30

It's not that bad. Don't confuse explicitness with complexity.

user4704

Implicit is often more complex in practice than the other way around.

user4704

The simplest way to establish that kind of communication is to synchronize the domain of the entity ID between all systems. In other words, make sure that any system that must expose its components via its public API has a way to look up a component by some ID that always happens to be the entity ID.

user4704

So, if the visualizer needs to recover the position information from the physics system so it can draw a sprite, it can do something like:

user4704

body * b = physicsWorld->get_rigid_body(sprite->entityId);

user4704

To do this, of course, your visualizer must have access to the physics system, so you'd want to something like: Visualizer(PhysicsWorld * physicsWorld) as the constructor of your visualizer.

user1895420

01:33

Allright, so then the communication is explicit.

user4704

(personally I prefer to avoid that specific dependency since it means I can't draw things without physics and I don't always want them; I keep physics and render position distinct, and have a higher-level system -- usually the 'game' class itself -- manage the synchronization, effectively)

user4704

but that is neither here nor there

user1895420

Thanks very much for the explanation btw.

user4704

np

user1895420

I hadn't realised there were so many different ways of doing it tbh

user4704

01:37

There's a lot more than that, too, depending on how particular you want to get.

user4704

But the major division is "components in entity," or "components in system."

user4704

After that its just flavor

user1895420

Anyways, thanks very much for your help. I'm going back to frankencoding :P.

Dave

01:56

Evening govnas

iPatel

04:55

HELLO

Pleas help me on this Question

1

Q: Display and Hide CCSprite with Genie effect

I am new at cocos2D. I started to learn cocos2D with simple game from http://www.raywenderlich.com/tutorials#cocos2d tutorial. Now I'm crazy with animation, so now i want to display CCSprite as OSX style genie effect and also want to hide too. I dont know how can i do it. (I want to animation ...

Christian Careaga

06:28

anyone have any ideas on how i could get a sword swing to look good in a 2d rpg

Blue

08:16

Morning GameDevs

Mikolaj Marcisz

hey

using UnityEngine;
using System.Collections;

public class Rotation : MonoBehaviour {

// Use this for initialization
void Start () {

}

// Update is called once per frame

void Update () {

// ... at the same time as spinning relative to the global
// Y axis at the same speed.
transform.Rotate(Vector3.up *12 * Time.deltaTime, Space.World);
}
}

Am I stupid or something, I am trying to make an object rotate counter clockwise

when i post (- 12) it doesn't work

;..;

it rotates in around another axis

@Blue any ideas?

Blue

Try Local rotate

Plus you are missing a variable I thin

think*

@MikolajMarcisz which axis does it need to rotate around?

Mikolaj Marcisz

y axis

Blue

And is this a consistant rotation or something controlled?

Mikolaj Marcisz

constant, it works fine with this code I posted

cant figure out a way to do it the opposite way :/

Blue

08:29

Just not in the opposite direction, the reason being you are using a Vector.Up as a reference point for its rotation overall instead of handling the rotation on each axis.

Mikolaj Marcisz

My logic fails here, what should I do xD?

Blue

If it is around its OWN Y axis then use this:

function Update() {
float fltRotate = -12.0f;
transform.Rotate(0, fltRotate * Time.deltaTime, 0);
}

Mikolaj Marcisz

oh I see

Blue

That will Rotate it locally on its Y axis not on the global Y axis.

Mikolaj Marcisz

ok

thanks!

Blue

08:32

No problem, let me know how it goes.

Mikolaj Marcisz

I can post a vid :P

Did not work again

Blue

function Update() {
    float fltRotate = -12.0f;
    transform.Rotate(0, transform.rotation.y + (fltRotate * Time.deltaTime), 0);
}

alterntively using eular angles, try it without Space.World

function Update() {
    float fltRotate = -12.0f;
    transform.Rotate(Vector3.up * (fltRotate * Time.deltaTime));
}

Your original query was fine I think but try it without Space as a refpoint

(Trying to debug this at work without a Unity build at hand is annoying :P)

Mikolaj Marcisz

it is not working ;/

with or without

I am trying to go for 1/var to change its direction

it changed the direction! but in the wrong axis

Blue

Then Vector.Up is not the axis you want.

Or don't forget this is local rotation

Mikolaj Marcisz

using UnityEngine;
using System.Collections;

public class Rotation : MonoBehaviour {
private int speed;
// Use this for initialization
void Start () {

}

// Update is called once per frame

void Update () {

speed = -12;
// ... at the same time as spinning relative to the global
// Y axis at the same speed.
transform.Rotate(Vector3.up * speed * Time.deltaTime, Space.World);
}
}

lol

this one worked

Blue

08:44

So why on earth didn't it work before..

btw, you only need to set speed once - if you don't default it to -12 when you intialise it then just put speed = -12; in Start()

Otherwise you are blindly reassigning speed with a value when it's the same.

Mikolaj Marcisz

maybe something was wrong with the class

Those things make you upset ;..;

Blue

Bizarre, both your old and new statements compile just fine...

Let me see how it goes later on @MikolajMarcisz - I'm intrigued.

Mikolaj Marcisz

I got it working : D

@Blue I can make a video of my scene, working with particles to get a cooler effect

Blue

09:14

Sounds good.

Mikolaj Marcisz

09:33

@Blue

Neventale.com/random/sphere.wmv - something like that : d need to add a skydome and some characters

Blue

09:46

Looks good.

I'm currently working on a turret defense game to get used to GameDevelopment. Want to branch out into it properly.

Mikolaj Marcisz

:P

I am currently making a mock-up video of my MMO : d

Blue

MMO huh? First Unity3D project?

Mikolaj Marcisz

Actually, I am doing it in HeroEngine, scene assembly is more time consuming in HeroEngine, asset exporting is VERY time consuming, one 3d mesh with texture = 3 minutes, I would have to export around 900 meshes

Blue

What moved you to use Unity?

Mikolaj Marcisz

I am going to present my game concept on a contest - I need a fast trailer, I could do it in both systems but it would take me 2x more time

Blue

09:57

Gotcha

Mikolaj Marcisz

:)

it would be hard to distinquish the one from unity and the HE one

Blue

Hopefully it is worth the time.

Mikolaj Marcisz

the only difference is, that I would be able to make an alpha release for people to play

Blue

Alpha - FIND ME THE BUGS

Mikolaj Marcisz

I got 8 days to finish it : D

more off

Alpha - That is what I got so far, gimme money through kickstarter to let you search for bugs in beta :P

Blue

10:08

@Bill!

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

@Yellow!

Blue

Touché.

Blue

11:26

Make me famous people...

0

A: Why do games seemingly reload the entire level when restarting a level?

Well now - what an interesting question to tackle. When reloading a level there are so many factors that need to be taken into account that it the answer can go both ways. If your level state contains a large list of assets it can be more practical to start from a clean slate when reloading a l...

@William'MindWorX'Mariager - I am depending on you!

You too @MikolajMarcisz!

iPatel

11:41

@Blue

hi

please help me at

0

Q: Why my BackGroung Image is hide when change grid with CCWaves Action?

I am use CCWaves action with CCSprite for get required animation My code of animation is id wavesAction = [CCWaves actionWithDuration:1.20 size:ccg(2,2) waves:1 amplitude:60 horizontal:YES vertical:NO]; [self.banana runAction: [CCEaseInOut actionWithAction:[CCRepeat actionWithAction:wavesActi...

2d game-design animation iphone cocos2d-iphone

Blue

@iPatel, I'll have a look when I can.

Gajoo

@Blue it's not that interesting to get famous for!

Blue

12:41

@Gajoo How dare you devalue my efforts! :D

Gajoo

@Blue meh...

Blue

@iPatel - Just took a look at your question and I don't know much about xna so I can't really help you there. Some basics to check for are the drawing buffer when you change the grid to your CCWaves Action, make sure the objects being drawn are passed to your draw/graphics buffer to be drawn on screen. Debug it from there and you may find your answer.

Almo

eval is evil.

Blue

@Almo Elaborate.

Oliver Schöning

12:57

@Gajoo Because I want to learn it :-) And also, because I want to remove as much overhead as possible since its Javascript

I might use some physics library later on when I have implemented webworkers and octtrees. Far in the future

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

How is cocos2d related to XNA? :s

Doesn't look like C# to me. :P

Blue

@OliverSchöning <FunnyScottishAccent>Pft, make your own Physics noob. If I don't see M-Theory grade quantum mechanics controlling your app then you're doing it wrong</FunnyScottishAccent>

Almo

In Javascript, Eval will spawn a JS interpreter, and execute the code in a string.

it causes performance issues and leads to unmaintainable code

And think I remember Crockford saying there's nothing you can do with it that you can't do better with more maintainable methods.

Oliver Schöning

@Blue Hehe :) How would I control the Quantum Mechanics though.. it would fuck up everythine Id try and look find their position and movement part

Never used Eval I think

ClassicThunder

@Almo Eval uses the same interpreter and runs just as fast as regulat JS. Anyways its great for loading JSON and besides maintainability there is no downside to it really.

Now the maintainability alone is kinda a huge issue so that alone kinda makes it not worth using.

Almo

13:10

Crockford says " The eval function is the most misused feature of JavaScript. Avoid it.

eval has aliases. Do not use the Function constructor. Do not pass strings to setTimeout or setInterval. "

I'll see if I can find his justifications

iPatel

hi

ClassicThunder

I agree you shouldnt use it 99% of the time. But its not because eval is evil as everyone likes to tote its because eval is exclusivly for generating dynamic code. If you dont need dynamic code then don't eval.

Just saying the usual sited issues like performance and security which are non issues are not why it shouldn't be used.

iPatel

Pleas friend , help me at this Question

Almo

JSON.Stringify should be used for reading JSON apparently

iPatel

1

Q: Display and Hide CCSprite with Genie effect

I am new at cocos2D. I started to learn cocos2D with simple game from http://www.raywenderlich.com/tutorials#cocos2d tutorial. Now I'm crazy with animation, so now i want to display CCSprite as OSX style genie effect and also want to hide too. I dont know how can i do it. (I want to animation ...

2d math animation cocos2d-iphone

ClassicThunder

13:14

JSON.Stringify check for a valid string then calls eval

Almo

Microsoft says "Running Code Using the ‘eval’ Statement is Expensive

The title explains it all. The eval statement in JScript is both expensive in terms of performance and prone to error if the site is generating dynamically the script to be run."

they also say:
For those interested in the “why”, execution of an arbitrary string of script involves the construction of a new script runtime, copying the context of the currently executing script, manipulation of the runtime stack, and a bit of other work. This isn’t much different from running other code, but isn’t nearly as fast as writing the inline branching code to handle all of the possibilities of the dynamically generated code. There are obviously good uses for the eval statement, just examine your project thoroughly before taking a dependency on it.

ANyway, just looking around briefly and my own experience with it, avoiding it does seem smart, unless there's a really compelling specific case you need it for

ClassicThunder

Hmm that might just be IE. I know WebKit will and I belive Gecko will buffer the code (so no new runtime) and optimize it based on the string in the eval. But yeah if your not generating cody dynamically then dont use it.

Wardy

isnt js basically all eval code? by its very nature js is not a pre compiled language

ClassicThunder

There is a ton of prediction and optimization of JS code it isnt just fed into the interpreter as is.

Wardy

sort of like .net jit compiling ?

ClassicThunder

13:21

Pretty much

Wardy

So i'm guessing the assumption is that because the string can be altered at runtime this is not likely to be possible as the actual code isn't known until runtime?

Shotgun Ninja

welp, got libgdx set up for my game last night

Ran the example, and lo and behold, it worked.

ClassicThunder

Depends generated code often doesnt change after its first generated if so you can cache that and its as fast as regular JS from then on.

Blue

@ShotgunNinja - good to know!

ClassicThunder

So JIT like optimizations based on measuring whats being run how often work on evaled code that doesn't change.

Blue

13:27

What was wrong before?

ClassicThunder

JIT alters programs while in execution optimizing based upon usage trends.

Shotgun Ninja

Yeah, even though I don't have Android build stuff set up on my PC, or GWT stuff, so the projects for 'Droid and HTML are broken.

Right now I'm just focusing on the Desktop portion.

Blue

Grand

Shotgun Ninja

Next step, tutorials on game architecture, camera movement, collision, etc.

First thing I want to build is a sample level.

One room, with a few walls, and a player who can move around.

Wardy

hey shotgun ... fancy pulling something on massive environments

or server comms

i've noticed the basics now "how to render stuff" and "how to use concept X" are documented like everwhere

needs more docs out there on how to combine concepts

stuff like "now you have a world and 20 players this is how you hook them up to each other and keep changes in sync"

effectively "editing everyone's world at the same time" and stuff like that

Shotgun Ninja

13:36

Wasn't there an article on synchronizing MMO settings on Gaffer On Games?

btw, that's a really good resource.

ToddersLegrande

@Blue!

Blue

13:52

@ToddersLegrande!

Do your job @Todders!

11

A: Why do games seemingly reload the entire level when restarting a level?

Well now - what a simple but interesting question to tackle. When reloading a level there are so many factors that need to be taken into account that the answer can go many ways. If your level state contains a large list of assets it can be more practical to start from a clean slate when reload...

ToddersLegrande

I didn't finish reading it yet xD

I vote we just use all the RAMs and have:

LoadLevel()
{
    //Load the level first then do the below
    startingLevelState = currentLevelState
}

RestartLevel()
{
    currentLevelState = startingLevelState;
}

Everyone has 32GB of RAM nowadays right?

Almo

not me

4

ToddersLegrande

Yeah I have 8 :P

Work PC with 16

Blue

64GB ftw.

E-penis grows

ToddersLegrande

eww

Blue

14:07

Whats eww about 64GB?

;)

ToddersLegrande

Oh you... :P

Gajoo

I also got 4GB

pc just crashed due to lack of memory...

Blue

HAHA the chances!

ToddersLegrande

flips coin I make my own luck.

Gajoo

I just tried to have these applications open at same time:
chrome (5 tabs), FF(9gag + FB), visual studio, the game I'm working on, paint.net, photoshop, and few instances of other lesser applications :|

ToddersLegrande

14:18

I think "the game I'm working on" may be the culprit :P

Byte56

What do people this of this "revised" question?

-3

Q: Is there a maximum number of characters a design should have?

I need to identify a maximum number of characters in a game so that I can provide a high number of choices without overwhelming the player. Is there an optimum set of characters to use in this case? Every set I come up with is either overwhelming for players or have too few choices.

game-design character balance

I reopened it since I was the only one that voted to close it before. But people should feel free to vote on it if they think it's still close-worthy.

ToddersLegrande

@Byte56 when I first read that I was trying to figure out why anyone would put a max limit on the number of characters (alpha/numeric) that are in a game

Byte56

Yeah. He claims is exactly the same as the optimal colors question. Which had a limit of 10 and represents a single variable.

ToddersLegrande

Or a design document... or code... or something

Almo

where's the flag for "Q&A needs questions with definitive answers

ToddersLegrande

14:21

"Primarily opinion based"

Gajoo

@ToddersLegrande it really is not, it only takes a few dozen megabytes

ClassicThunder

You closed it reopened it then answered it? Weren't you complaining about people answering questions they were voting to close?

Byte56

That would be "Too broad" or primarily opinion based.

Almo

where is that option?

can't find it

ToddersLegrande

@Almo needs more rep :P

It's a close vote option

Byte56

14:22

@ClassicThunder I voted to close a different question, it's been significantly edited

And, I have no problem with voting to close and answering a question.

ClassicThunder

Relevent

news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6062876

Almo

that time it was tehre

it's like the interface changed

Byte56

I do that occasionally to try to steer the other answers to be on topic, incase the question wasn't closed.

Blue

@ToddersLegrande Bioshock Infinite says otherwise.

Hey @Byte56 - Nice blue name you've got there.

ToddersLegrande

I want to get a new graphics card before I finish that game. Not playing it at full HD right now :(

Blue

14:24

It's amazing...

I've never felt so much emotion from a games story and ending.

Byte56

Yeah, seems inappropriate, with my name not being "Blue"

Blue

;P - you got what I was going for!

Byte56

You should have been a mod. Epic chat combination.

Blue

I was going to apply, pity I was in hospital when it opened

Gajoo

@ToddersLegrande any suggestions for an online radio channel? playing music? for wp8?

ToddersLegrande

14:25

"Uh oh, Blue incoming!" would have a whole new meaning

ClassicThunder

If you change the title to "Methodologies for deciding the number of characters a design should have?" wouldn't that work?

Almo

Digitally Imported

Blue

@ToddersLegrande There is still next year ;)

Almo

they have a bunch of channels organized by type of music

Soma.fm

that's another good one

Byte56

@Blue You were in the hospital for a week?!

ClassicThunder

14:25

There should be a way to make a review require a peer review even if you have edit abilities I think with a bit or rewrite its a good question.

ToddersLegrande

@Gajoo I use the Xbox music service which also has a "smart DJ" option which kind of acts like a radio. It just generates a playlist based on the selected artist/song. I think its like $10 a month and likely not an option for you

The other obvious answer is Pandora

windowsphone.com/en-us/store/app/pandora/…

Gajoo

@ToddersLegrande pandora isn't really an option either, considering it's filtered

ToddersLegrande

Pandora is ad free through the end of the year on WP8

Oh bummer

Byte56

@ClassicThunder Edits from low rep users do require a review.

Gajoo

@ToddersLegrande at least the PC client is :|

Byte56

14:28

@ClassicThunder Well, now I have to modify my answer slightly :p

ToddersLegrande

@Gajoo that would mean it would be on the phone if you are using Wifi for sure, not sure about cellular data

Unfortunately I haven't explored any other options. Sorry!

ClassicThunder

@Byte56 lol I figured that makes it answerable and should be helpful to the op still. I just don't really like the idea of kind of hijacking a question like that.

ToddersLegrande

I really like the edit

Byte56

@ClassicThunder That's what editing is all about. If you can turn it around, then go for it.

It can always be undone or tweaked if it's not a good edit.

Gajoo

@ToddersLegrande seems windows phone version is not filtered, but it's not available in my region :|

Byte56

14:30

I think it's a good edit.

ToddersLegrande

@Gajoo oh snap

Byte56

I ninja edited my answer to fit.

Gajoo

it's like other things, everything worth exploring is either filtered by our government or blocked by service providers :|

Almo

what about soma.fm?

Shotgun Ninja

This website is worthless if people can't give their thoughts (answers) to discussions about game design. This is suppose to be about Game Development, which includes Design Philosophy. Game Design is extremely important. What a worthless website... this site should be deleted entirely and simply move the questions over to StackOverflow if we can't ask questions about game design theory and are limited to very specific questions or specific programming problems. Game design theory will always be opinion oriented.. and most of the answers for other questions are 100% opinion...what a joke, lol. — Carter81 8 hours ago

O_O OH SNAP

Almo

14:42

But the how many characters question is completely speculation

Shotgun Ninja

To be fair, there may be a simple formula based on empirical research which shows which colors are optimal, as well as how many characters are optimal. The problem is that these also depend on the game type, and many other details about the game.

These aren't really things that can be answered definitively for all games, which is where the "discussion-oriented" part comes in.

Gajoo

@Almo wp8 doesn't seem to have a decent client, or the service sucks :|

ClassicThunder

@ShotgunNinja Along similar lines

news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6062876

Shotgun Ninja

15:07

for sure

Blue

16:21

@Byte56 Yes. Yes I was.

ToddersLegrande

@Blue how many organs are you missing? I'm up to two now

Blue

@ToddersLegrande Well if you count a blind eye as an organ then the one.

ToddersLegrande

@Blue now you will never be able to view 3D content :(

Blue

@ToddersLegrande I know man. I miss seeing my girlfriends boobs with depth...

ToddersLegrande

Such a trajesty

Shotgun Ninja

16:25

@ToddersLegrande tragedy, or travesty? Also, where'd the J come from?

urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=trajesty

Blue

He's being all urban dictionary on our arses.

ToddersLegrande

The "proper" spelling is probably "tragesty"

Either way, neither. I'm going to use made up words all I want and there is nothing you can do about :P

Blue

Not unless they mean something other than your own purpose for the meaning...

►

Right - home time

ToddersLegrande

Anybody want a peanut?

The rhyming scene might be my favorite...

Alex M.

I'm done with the misc log thingy

or with timestamps

ToddersLegrande

16:44

@AlexM. reminds me of RuneScape for some reason :P

Alex M.

might be

I'm unconsciously putting in elements from other games

Shotgun Ninja

17:15

ewwwww.... We just got XSS'd

A JSP file was maliciously inserted into our web site.

Almo

:(

bad results?

Shotgun Ninja

17:37

Not sure.

ToddersLegrande

Ew. JSP :P

Shotgun Ninja

Dude, totally. I hate working with this crap.

Especially when some of our more complex pages are thousands of lines long, and contain run-on tags which are broken up across 10 or more lines.

ToddersLegrande

oh gawd

So these are self contained JSPs with no code behind or? (I forget the exact terminology, only took a class and hated it)

Shotgun Ninja

They have code-behind. It's just that they represent things like product search/display pages, and so many little extra features have been added over the years without code cleanup that it's grown disgusting.

ToddersLegrande

17:53

Well like with ASP.NET it gets split out into ASPX files and .CS files if you do it right - nothing forcing you to do it this way. At least then with the .CS files I could use the built in IDE functionality to find the code I'm looking for very easily and not have to sift through markup at the same time

If you've got both types of files AND its still that bad... I'm sorry :(

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