Agents of Absence

Rogue Jedi

00:17

I still feel DC is flooding the market by giving nearly every A and B list character a show.

I like superhero shows, but I feel like people won't be able to follow as many as they'd like.

Rogue Jedi

00:50

The Killer Croc Equation

phantom42

01:06

aquaman reference in the flash this week

phantom42

02:46

the ATCU base is in gaithersburg, md. i knew i hated living in that town for a reason.

Dr R Dizzle

08:29

I have now caught up on both Supergirl and Agents of SHIELD. Great episodes, both of them, although Supergirl maybe needs to be a bit less ambitious with its CGI budget in some areas.

Also, I'm really impressed with how Agents of SHIELD managed to make two different storylines feel like one cohesive episode - both Team Kill Ward and Team Find Lash ended up phoning base to have Fitz helped them. It's a small thing, but it made SHIELD feel like one big team with actual resources, rather than the relatively separate ways of working that we've seen more recently. The fact that Team Kill Ward ended up figuring out who Lash is before Team Find Lash did is nice too.

Ankit Sharma

09:13

@MikeEdenfield by me between a season and i hope network cancel it too

@DrRDizzle Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood and Attack of titan. But brotherhood is in priority

Dr R Dizzle

@AnkitSharma I've never seen Full Meal Alchemist or Full Meal Alchemist: Brotherhood, but I can vouch for Attack on Titan, which is excellent. It's the anime that made me give anime a real chance as a form of entertainment.

@AnkitSharma Why would you want a network to cancel a show? Just because you don't enjoy something doesn't mean others aren't.

Ankit Sharma

@DrRDizzle because their rating getting down + public reception is also decreased and to me killing the show with dead repetitive script.

@DrRDizzle My top 2 anime are Death note and code geass because both don't have filler, less episode and a conclusive end. If you haven't seen them, go for it.

Dr R Dizzle

@AnkitSharma Surely, it would be better for everyone if the show just improved though?

Ankit Sharma

@DrRDizzle they did made a good spinoff but it got failed due to TRP and they are lacking in Ideas.

If they improved, i will love to see them but they are not even trying.

Dr R Dizzle

@AnkitSharma Death Note is on my list. The only anime's I've actually watched all the way through are Attack on Titan, Steins;Gate and Hunter X Hunter. I'm in the process of finishing JoJo's Bizarre Adventure and Parasyte: The Maxim. Also on my list is Akame Ga Kill and Kill la Kill.

Ankit Sharma

09:29

@DrRDizzle watched none of them. I have seen Digimon, pokemon, naruto, dragon ball - all of them have too much filler and extended arc which kept me loosing interest and left all of them.

I loved Princess tutu, Death note and code geass.

@DrRDizzle most of the people put FMA brotherhood over FMA. So going with brotherhood, maybe after 2 week.

Mike Edenfield

09:49

@AnkitSharma Once Upon A Time is getting very good ratings, there's almost no chance the network is going to cancel it as long as the studio's willing to keep making it.

Dr R Dizzle

@AnkitSharma Yeah, apparently Full Meal Alchemist: Brotherhood follows the manga and has no filler, whereas Full Meal Alchemist only follows the manga for a little bit, and has some filler.

@MikeEdenfield Is Once Upon a Time just Fables: The TV show?

@AnkitSharma Once Upon a Time has more viewers on average than The Flash and Arrow put together, if that helps put it into perspective.

Ankit Sharma

@DrRDizzle Fables plan was cancelled because of once upon a time

Similar idea with differences

Dr R Dizzle

10:05

I knew I recognised the Berlanti tone. He did Modern Family before The Flash and Supergirl, with Ali Addler, who he's working with on Supergirl.

Huh, No Ordinary Family was cancelled due to low ratings, despite having a higher average of viewers per episode than The Flash. I guess the network they are airing on must matter.

Ankit Sharma

@MikeEdenfield didn't know that, i must have confused its rating from some other show.

Mike Edenfield

@DrRDizzle that makes a big difference. shows are almost exclusively judged based on other shows on the same network.

90% of CW's shows would be cancelled if you put them on another network. but at the same time, fewer households get the CW, so its possible if you put them on another network the ratings would go up.

Dr R Dizzle

@MikeEdenfield So I'm guessing that networks like ABC (Agents of SHIELD) and CBS (Supergirl) expect higher audiences than CW (Arrow, The Flash)? Not being American, I don't know a thing about these networks.

Where does NBC come in all this?

Mike Edenfield

overall abc/nbc/cbs/fox are roughly the same.

I don't think there's significant differences in how many people have broadcast access to those shows.

which is the problem... those ratings are still based on the idea of free over-the-air broadcasts.

because that's the only time they know you're watching the commercials

DVR, or online viewing, or hulu, or on-demand, or whatever... useful for PR, almost irrelevant as far as renewals go

but different networks also tend to have slightly different target audiences... the 18-49 demo is the one that really matters, but CW tends to focus on younger audiences, while CBS tends to focus on older viewers.

Supergirl's a bit of an anomoly in that regard, actually.. mostly CBS has shows like NCIS and CSI and Scorpion

Dr R Dizzle

10:21

@MikeEdenfield TV ratings are such an out-dated metric of measuring a shows success. It's why I feel happy about the move to streaming services - a more accurate representation of how many users are interested in a show, for a start.

Mike Edenfield

the problem there is the idea that the networks actually care how many people watch their shows.

they care how many people watch their commercials

that's what they get paid for.

Dr R Dizzle

@MikeEdenfield Yes, but streaming services will surely capture that metric more accurately too.

Mike Edenfield

network TV shows are just a delivery mechanism to fill space between commercials and convince you now to change the channel.

except advertisers don't want to pay for commercial time on streaming services.

so the returns for the network are way smaller.

Dr R Dizzle

@MikeEdenfield I don't understand why not. I stream a lot more content than I watch through traditional television

@MikeEdenfield And most people my age are similar.

Mike Edenfield

they haven't quite figured out how to make the economics work out there.

yes but how much do you pay attention to the commecials? how often do you even have commerciaks?

would you watch a show on netflix if you had to sit through 15 minutes of commercials an hour?

some people would. most people wouldn't, yet.

Dr R Dizzle

10:25

@MikeEdenfield Well I use an app on my Wii U to watch anime called CrunchyRoll, and rather than paying for it (which is an option) I instead use the free version, which puts about 5 - 10 minutes of adverts throughout the show.

@MikeEdenfield No, because I pay for access to Netflix.

Mike Edenfield

what you pay to access netflix isn't even remotely beginning to cover the costs of making those shows.

that math only works for in-house productions by netflix itself, since they keep 100% of the revenue.

i suspect the more people switch over to watching online streaming TV the more expensive they'll get, as networks start to shift more of the burden of covering their costs to the online stuff.

Dr R Dizzle

@MikeEdenfield Then it looks like traditional TV networks need to modernise, quickly. Because the success of browser add-ons like AdBlock shows that people at large do not like advertisements.

Mike Edenfield

they do.

but at the same time, people just don't want to pay a lot for TV

Dr R Dizzle

@MikeEdenfield The thing is, no one watches the adverts on TV anyway. Adverts come on and you get up to put the kettle on or start flicking through the channels.

Mike Edenfield

you'd think that, but there's plenty of market research on buying habits etc. that shows that TV commercials are still the single most successful way to advertise.

that's why the networks can charge so much for them

Dr R Dizzle

10:29

@MikeEdenfield I don't mind paying for Netflix, and if a service offers a show I want to watch I'd happily pay for another, similarly priced service to Netflix as long as it didn't contain adverts.

I'm not ever going to pay money to watch adverts. It isn't going to happen. I refuse. It's my biggest gripe with going to the cinema already.

Mike Edenfield

then, consider this: Agents of SHIELD is rumored to have a very high production budget per episode; the average for an hour-long drama is $3.5million/episode, so SHIELD is probably closer to $5mil. if you include DVR delayed viewing about 4 million people watch each episode.

would you pay $1.50 per episode per show to watch TV?

if enough people were willing to do that, then we'd have no need for commercials anymore

Dr R Dizzle

@MikeEdenfield I've been watching Agents of SHIELD for a long time now, and I can say with some certainty that whatever the budget of the show started out at, it isn't that now. The drop in production quality between seasons isn't just noticeable, it's almost distracting. And considering that works out at about £1 and episode, and 4 episodes are aired per month, and I happily pay £7 for Netflix per month, then yes, I'd pay that for Agents of SHIELD.

Mike Edenfield

oh god no.

the pilot episode was rumored to have a $14million budget.

that's unsustainable

the budget is based on how many people watch and how much they think they can get in ad revenue

the low S1 ratings killed it's budget

Dr R Dizzle

@MikeEdenfield Even the rest of season one is considerably glossier than season two onwards, in everything from set design to CGI.

Mike Edenfield

as the ratings recover the budget may recover and it will start looking better

but "lets invest in the show now and hope it pays off later" isn't usually how networks think :\

Dr R Dizzle

10:44

@MikeEdenfield I don't think the ratings are recovering though, we are still seeing a decrease of viewers in season three (I think).

Mike Edenfield

i think its ratings this year are up a bit from last year

Dr R Dizzle

@MikeEdenfield Wikipedia doesn't seem to think so, but then again that's Wikipedia.

Mike Edenfield

when i just looked on wikipedia it didn't have S3's ratings yet.

Dr R Dizzle

Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. (season 3)

The third season of the American television series Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., which is based on the Marvel Comics organization S.H.I.E.L.D. (Strategic Homeland Intervention, Enforcement, and Logistics Division), revolves around the character of Phil Coulson and his team of S.H.I.E.L.D. agents and allies, who begin a secret mission to assemble a team of super-powered individuals, such as the Inhumans, to deal with new threats to the world, while others are also tracking down members of the group. It is set in the Marvel Cinematic Universe (MCU), sharing continuity with the films of the franchise. The...

@MikeEdenfield It's interesting that season three hasn't seen the same sudden decrease in viewers between pilot and second episode that seasons 1 and 2 did

Mike Edenfield

that's actually typical

but yeah, the S3 started out higher than S2 ended

but it's basically settled back down

but see, SHIELD is also one of those shows that gets really good delayed viewing number.

Dr R Dizzle

10:50

@MikeEdenfield Most people I know that do watch it tend to wait a few episodes and binge watch 3-4 at a time.

Mike Edenfield

that implies that a pay-per-episode scheme would work really well for that show.

that's like 8-9 million people watching each episode, not even counting Hulu.

Dr R Dizzle

@MikeEdenfield The obvious decision to me would be to "cancel" Agents of SHIELD after season three and launch the follow up show "Secret Warriors" as a new Netflix Original, with much of the same cast as Agents of SHIELD.

Mike Edenfield

S4 is gonna happen.

it's almost automatic

if they get up to >80 produced episodes, they can sell the show into syndication and make $$$$ for years

Dr R Dizzle

@MikeEdenfield I don't disagree.

@MikeEdenfield Well last night was episode 50, so that means you are looking at about 6 seasons. I can't quite see that.

Mike Edenfield

are you sure?

it's usually 22 episodes per season

give or take

so we should be near 66ish by the end of this season

Dr R Dizzle

10:53

@MikeEdenfield My JK Rowling math is at it again.

Mike Edenfield

even so, at the moment SHIELD is doing well above average for a ABC show

Dr R Dizzle

@MikeEdenfield 66 exactly, depending on if the season two finale "S.O.S" two-parter counts as two episodes or one.

Mike Edenfield

it's not the top rated show on the network but it's in the top 1/3

Dr R Dizzle

@MikeEdenfield It's an ABC show though.

Mike Edenfield

:)

tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2015/11/04/…

ABC has a bunch of other garbage to cancel

Dr R Dizzle

10:56

@MikeEdenfield Lmao, I have no idea what the table is meant to be showing me

Mike Edenfield

ah, it's actually doing a bit below average but it's S3.

Dr R Dizzle

friggin Emojis

Mike Edenfield

they number-crunch the ratings, compute the average rating for each network, then compare each show's average ratings to the network

then figure out if the show is likely to be renewed

anything over ~80% of the average is usually safe.

Dr R Dizzle

@MikeEdenfield And Emoji's is the best way to demonstrate that data, clearly.

Mike Edenfield

they are shockingly accurate. they usually miss maybe 3-4 "bubble" shows a year.

well the number is there.

SHIELD is 87% of the network average

Dr R Dizzle

10:58

@MikeEdenfield I thought Castle was really popular?

Mike Edenfield

not anymore.

it's been dropping for a while.

they made the moonlighting mistake.

they married the leads

everyone bitches up and down when they stretch out the UST year over year to "just get together already". but soon as that happens, ratings dry up

Dr R Dizzle

@MikeEdenfield You can't trust people.

Mike Edenfield

Castle's getting pretty old for a drama, too. it's a problem for any long-running show.

usually, ratings sink at least a bit year over year, but salaries go up.

eventually you hit the boiling point and everyone just decides to call it quits. I suspect Castle's at that point now.

Dr R Dizzle

@MikeEdenfield Fair enough. I mean, Fillion alone can't be cheap - he isn't exactly in demand, but the dude still has a huge following.

Mike Edenfield

I think Bones is at the same point.

Dr R Dizzle

11:02

@MikeEdenfield Never seen it.

Mike Edenfield

its like castle but with more science and less jokes

Dr R Dizzle

@MikeEdenfield I don't do procedural crime dramas, because Hannibal did the entire concept better than anyone ever has or will again.

Ankit Sharma

Long conversation without any curse word for DrRDizzle, i have lost faith in this chatroom.

Dr R Dizzle

@AnkitSharma I very rarely swear, you arse.

Ankit Sharma

@DrRDizzle i said for not from.

Dr R Dizzle

11:18

@AnkitSharma Quick, someone call me an arse and restore balance to ~~The Force~~ Agents of Nothing!

Ankit Sharma

@DrRDizzle i don't like english curse word and rarely use them

I am more comfortable with Hindi one :D

Dr R Dizzle

11:36

For the record, by the way, I don't think Spoiler is Lash. I think this is part of a plan by Ward's Hydra to get revenge on May.

Ankit Sharma

11:51

@DrRDizzle for the record i didn't understood a word.

:D

phantom42

this years arrow/flash crossover will be an actual 2-parter, not just two connected episodes

> There’s a lot of things that are really cool about this year’s crossover, one of which is the fact that there really is a true 2-part story unlike last year where it was two interconnected episodes where each had their own beginning, middle, and end,

> This is a big two-part event, one single bad guy, and it will very clearly launch Legends Of Tomorrow. But at the same time what I think is a lot of fun about it is that it doesn’t feel like a backdoor pilot for Legends Of Tomorrow. It feels like an episode of Flash and then an episode of Arrow. It truly is a 2-hour Flash/Arrow event that just so happens to introduce us to some new characters who will be a big part of Legends Of Tomorrow."

Ankit Sharma

@phantom42 heard this before, bit excited.

But more excited to see Constantine in arrow today.

Waiting to see Constantine on arrow in upcoming episode #ConstantineOnArrow #SaveConstantine #mattryan #nbcsucks

Tweeted by Ankit_aries15 on November 2, 2015 at 7:23 PM

phantom42

14:16

has AoS shown us anything that ended up being a lie?

certainly, some people have spoken lies, and we've been misdirected but i can't think of any instance where we've actually been shown something that ended up being a complete fabrication.

Dr R Dizzle

@phantom42 We were "shown" von Strucker's recollection of the event though, not the event itself.

@phantom42 Also, yes it has. Clips of Coulson in Tahiti, I believe.

phantom42

@DrRDizzle we were seeing coulson's dream, IIRC, and even then, i remember it being pretty obvious that it was one.

Dr R Dizzle

14:32

@phantom42 Maybe, but still.

Ankit Sharma

14:51

Anyways, how did Coulson came back from dead, spoilers are welcome.

Jack B Nimble

@AnkitSharma They were able to use Kree blood from a long dead Kree they discovered to bring him back.

Ankit Sharma

Sounds bit lame

Jack B Nimble

The Kree blood had a side effect, that if introduced to non-Inhumans, it caused them to become obsessed with an ancient Kree "temple"

The project was originally designed to bring a fallen Avenger back from the dead. Coulson was in charge of it. However, the people they tested it on, they went crazy with "Kree" madness, and had to wipe their memories. So Coulson's memory had to be wiped and he was implanted with Taihiti vacation memories.

When Coulson died in Avengers, Fury decided to use the stuff on him anyways, knowing the side effects.

Ankit Sharma

did it appear more weird then its sounding now or less

Dr R Dizzle

@AnkitSharma About as weird as it sounds. The strangest moment was them finding the alien body in season one.

Ankit Sharma

14:57

@DrRDizzle i think i have seen that somewhere

phantom42

@AnkitSharma have you even read comics before? this is nothing compared to some of the crap they come up with.

like bova, the talking cow that raised quicksilver and scarlet witch

or how captain america doesnt really die at the end of civil war

Jack B Nimble

@phantom42 Even if he did die, they could bring him back with project Tahiti

Dr R Dizzle

15:31

@JackBNimble Not anymore. I think Coulson probably shut it down.

Jack B Nimble

@DrRDizzle Well, the facility exploded. So they no longer have their Kree torso.

I don't care for the Thresh / May's boyfriend angle. Admittedly, it might not be true.

Dr R Dizzle

@JackBNimble What the hell is Thresh?

Jack B Nimble

@DrRDizzle Or whatever they call the Inhuman slaying monster. I couldn't quite make out what they were calling him, but it was something like Thresh.

Also, I'm disappointed Thresh isn't just a Kree send to slay the Inhumans, like that other Kree in disguise from Season 2.

On set with Dr. Strange

So far Dr. Strange appears to be a story about a hobo wandering around some gypsy town.

Say Dr. Strange, did you live under powerlines as a kid?

Dr R Dizzle

16:12

@JackBNimble Lash.

@JackBNimble It can't tell if that's a fake looking real beard or a real looking fake beard.

Ankit Sharma

17:35

@phantom42 i hated that marvel zombie arc and deadpool killing spree story. And Dc and marvel both did shit in comics too.

@JackBNimble Looks like india

phantom42

@AnkitSharma it is, according to the descriptions of the photos

@JackBNimble lash

Ankit Sharma

Did Dr starnge have India conection in comics?

I don't know much about him

phantom42

17:50

@AnkitSharma he studies in the himalayas.

Ankit Sharma

ok

phantom42

it's where he becomes a sorcerer in the comics

but in the movie, he's going to have already become a sorcerer, from what i understand

Dr R Dizzle

@phantom42 I have no idea any more. Feige said that Dr Strange has one of the best origin stories and that they wouldn't want to waste it, so who knows.

phantom42

19:20

i didnt realize that supergirl and gotham are on at the same time. well, that's just stupid as hell.

Ankit Sharma

Watched last episode of flash and arrow.

Liked them both overall, small bit of issues which i can ignore

phantom42

23:53

Jack B Nimble

Zoom is Deadpool (circa Wolverine Origins).

phantom42

damn flash and his multiverse breaking

Jack B Nimble

Or perhaps Neo

Neo is the Zoom. It is confirmed.

phantom42

it kinda sorta annoys me that they keep saying "harrison wells did all this bad stuff" when it wasn't harrison wells.

Jack B Nimble

E2 Harrison Wells keeps referring to E1 as his "Doppelganger"

When I think of Doppelganger, I think imposter.

phantom42

23:59

but they refer to everyone's other version as a doppelganger

and i'm pretty certain team flash started it

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