Another home for challenges

No. 7892142

14:00

Umm, initial "question".

BmyGuest

@Joe he was referring to the comment on the infamouse-near-flamewar meta posting (original post)

Joe

Ah OK

No. 7892142

I wouldn't even call it a near-flamewar anyway. I've seen some things.

BmyGuest

@# I agree, let's move forward. (Yes, I would have preferred Puzzling.SE to continue as is, but I can rather live with the fact of creating something better than fighting again and again.)

@# Btw, "he" is an assumption. It's meant gender-neutral

No. 7892142

Huh?

The hell's an .xyz TLD and where do you get that.

BmyGuest

14:04

@Joe Something like this sidebar, yes. Maybe needs refinement. (Not sure what the "main" categories are. Will the "filter" be remembered at login?

Joe

@No.7892142 it's a new (read: cheap) domain name. You can get one from 123-reg.co.uk

BmyGuest

Hi Geo

Joe

@BmyGuest I don't know if it remembers it. We can spec out what we actually want though, I think :-)

No. 7892142

@Joe I like it. Looks way better than the .tk things the internet had earlier. Or subdomains.

Joe

Haha, .tk was amazing xD

skv

14:07

Has anyone considered the option of starting a separate SE proposal on Area 51

for Challenges

Puzzling Challenges & Riddles may be

No. 7892142

I thought that would be the logical next step from my suggestion to ask "Jeff", whoever that is, to retroactively allow an exception.

skv

Jeff no longer works her

No. 7892142

You get the idea.

skv

:P he left as soon as Steve jobs died and he realised purpose of life is to have fun :P

I don't think that anyone's approval is needed as long as everyone approves of it

Joe

Makes sense to ask. I get the feeling that PPCG is seen as the only non-QA that they want though

skv

14:09

CR too

No. 7892142

The point is, asking doesn't hurt, if done in a proper way.

Joe

Mm, CR is closer to a QA format, no?

skv

I mean Challenges are questions

with answers too

No. 7892142

As I stated, you have the arguments on your side, the only thing keeping them is petty personal preferences.

skv

I see no harm in trying an Area51 proposal

then I can post challenges without any guilty feeling

and not worry about hosting and domain and things ...

Joe

14:11

How long would an a51 proposal take to get a beta site hatched?

skv

if you look at CivicCRM

Victor

It may take one year to make a site lauch from area 51.

skv

it took one month to go form definition to Commitment and now they are only waiting because they dont have enough people from other SE sites

no

it wont take a year

less than 2 months is my guess if we form a clear community

a community of 200 people though

Joe

2 months without puzzles/riddles feels like a dead community to me =/

skv

;) I mean it can be less than 2 months also let me google up an answer

Geobits

14:13

I have a genuine question for the room: I'm going to guess that at least 90% of the users of P.SE come from the SE network. What do you guys plan to do with the new site to get people to join? One of the main complaints about banning riddles that I've heard is that it will drive users away (leaving this place barren). But if a core group of 10-15 users go off and start another site outside SE, what plan is there to make it less barren?

Victor

Area 51 is horrible. Even if you pass the definition and commitment phases (and this is not easy). It is possible that the proposal gets closed by a SE diamond mod with no real explanation. Just because they can. I already saw this happening many times there.

skv

I agree but if we succeed

you have to agree its easier to build and maintain community here

No. 7892142

It might take a shorter time since a Challenges SE already existed on some way.

Which has to be noted.

skv

look at CivicCRM

Geobits

Most of the time I end up at P.SE, it's because I saw something on HNQ or I have a notification (which shows up on every SE site). With a separate site, you lose all that cross-traffic.

skv

14:15

yes

google loves SE

so SEO is also tough...

if you are a separate site

Victor

@Geobits Yes, in a new site we won't ever get to the HNQ. But we have no choice for now.

No. 7892142

I know I am regurgitating at this point, as I said, but I don't believe this split will help either side, really. Least of all will it help the actual users.

COTO

@Geobits That's my concern too. SE is excellent for driving traffic to its various boards.

I like the challenges.SE idea. Is there any traction to that?

skv

Why dont we try area51 whilst doing other things?

Geobits

@Victor I'm not saying that keeping riddles, etc, here on P.SE is an option. I'm wondering what the new site will do to stem those problems. That's a conversation that needs to be had if people are serious about a new site.

skv

14:17

trying and failing would give a sense of satisfaction that we tried

COTO

Maybe we could just bite the bullet and ask for a puzzling-for-dummies-and-other-nonexperts.stackexchange.com. :D

Victor

@No.7892142 Surely, the split is very bad. But the mods from puzzling.SE or whoever is behind them already decided to in practice kill this site. So it is either the split or nothing .now.

Geobits

Right now the tone feels more like "We're going to take our ball and go over here", rather than "how can we build a great puzzling site that will attract people".

COTO

@Geobits I get the impression the mods are under pressure from SE itself. "Shape up or you get shut down."

Joe

@Geobits it's more like "The neighbour just stuck a knife in our ball. I guess we need a different yard"

Victor

14:19

@Geobits We surely will need some way to avoid crappy questions and crappy answers from popping out. But I still don't know how. But we need to keep the ball rolling, otherwise we won't have any ball to roll.

No. 7892142

@Victor @Geobits I'm mostly just a little sad that they don't actually look for a discussion on this whole matter aside from some comments.

skv

yes being inside SE helps enforce the rules

Geobits

@Joe I'm sure the neighbor feels you shouldn't have been making a bunch of noise playing in his yard ;)

skv

so the choice is to "make another yard" which is a lot tougher than "find another yard"

;)

No. 7892142

OR to convince the neighbour that we aren't so bad after all.

Joe

14:21

Yes, but right now if we don't do anything, all the other kids will come to this yard looking for a ball-game, then get confused and leave when they don't find it

Good luck convincing Emrakul that puzzles are on-topic in Puzzling.SE

2

skv

;) its not about convincing x y or z if you ask me frankly in its present shape even I would say its not on-topic

No. 7892142

@Joe See my previous comment on that I think it's sad that they don't join the discussion.

Geobits

@No.7892142 I've seen plenty of discussion about riddles/challenges on meta. Not much consensus that I saw, but plenty of discussion.

skv

thats why I said I will be able to post without guilt in a new site

Area51 only needs 60 followers and 40 questions with 10 upvotes

which is not a lot if we consolidate anyone who wants challenges from here

if they shoot us down

then everyone can decide

if to create a new site or find another host

and rather

Area51 can be one of the things we try

while puzzling.xyz can work

Joe

@skv That makes sense - moving to another site for now feels like its required to keep everyone together, as we're breaking rules on P.SE today if we post there. Assuming the a51 proposal or something else goes through, everyone will be in oneplace and we can coordinate a move-back

No. 7892142

14:25

The more I think about it, the more I think my last comment on that initial question summed it up pretty well. It's not a new kind of behaviour and it's understandable as well, it's just quite unprofessional on the "moderators"' side.

Joe

Not having everyone in one place makes things much more difficult, whatever we decide

skv

yes

agree on that point

Joe

In that case, I'd recommend everyone follows area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/80752/…

skv

I run a web development company myself (as most here do I guess) and so running a site for a hobby seems a horrible waste of resources

there we go

COTO

@skv If you (or another enterprising individual) gets SE to create another challenge site, I'll gladly try it out. I'm just a bit worried that SE are the ones behind the moderator decision to ban challenge questions, in which case the new subdomain will have the same issues.

skv

14:27

only 56 more followers needed

No. 7892142

So Code Golf is to programmers what this will be to Puzzlers? – Tim

skv

4

Puzzle and Riddle Challenges

Proposed Q&A site for posing challenging puzzles and riddles and answering them

Currently in definition.

No. 7892142

Whoa, nailed it.

skv

looks like it was created 7 hours back :P

@COTO lets try

Joe

I've posted on PXYZ so anyone who heads there sees it

skv

14:31

Excellent

COTO

@skv OK. I've followed it. I'll post copies of my two most popular challenge questions there as example questions, which is fair since they'll be off-topic for puzzling.SE.

Joe

Next step, non-plagiarised riddles and puzzles I guess

I was about to ask that - is copy/pasting things like Spaghetti Part 1 considered "OK" on the proposal?

Or perhaps a better example, something like The Serial Killer, as that's my own content

COTO

@Joe Any challenge questions on puzzling.SE are fair game AFAIC. They're off-topic here. The only reason any of us posted them here was because we believed they were on topic.

Joe

@COTO that makes sense to me. Anyone else have an opinion?

COTO

But restrict them to questions you've asked yourself. That's the respectful thing to do.

BmyGuest

14:35

@Coto Agreed

Victor

I think that Area 51 may not work. But anyway, I created 2 example questions there. Just copied them from the most voted on puzzling.SE.

Geobits

0

Q: What quality standards?

Proposal: Puzzle and Riddle Challenges Although some people may disagree with the decision made on Puzzling.SE, it's hard to say it didn't make any good points about the problems with riddles and challenges. For example Wild lateral thinking Subjective answers Searchability Opaque/bad titles ...

recreation

BmyGuest

I have a question for Area52 - how do I get from 1 rep to 5 rep to not always read "You must have at least 5 reputation on Area 51 to answer a question on meta." ??

Area51

Joe

@BmyGuest link your SE profile

skv

You can ask questions I guess

yes linking gives a bonus

BmyGuest

14:45

I have. I have 151 rep when I'm on the Area51 site. It drops to rep 1 the moment I go in any of the two posted discussions ???

Joe

Err...

skv

only 6 followers?

thats less than the population of this room :P

BmyGuest

Whatever I do, I have only 1 rep at discuss.area51.stackexchange.com

but I have 151 on area51.stackexchange.com

Joe

Try logging out and in? :-)

Geobits

@skv I'm still trying to decide whether to follow (which is why I asked the question I did; to get a better feel).

BmyGuest

14:51

I did. I changed browser as well. (so no cookies)

So I have 1 rep and ... You must have at least 5 reputation on Area 51 to ask a question on meta.

skv

you can follow

BmyGuest

You must have at least 15 reputation on Area 51 to vote

skv

and post an example question

once upvoted

you get reputation

Geobits

I'm not sure I understand the rep there at all.

skv

its sort of similar to SE but yeah confusing at times

Geobits

14:53

Is it just for the example questions? Not "discussions"?

BmyGuest

You must have at least 5 reputation on Area 51 to answer a question on meta

skv

example questions are part of definition

and get you rep

meta discussions dont give rep in any SE site

except Meta.stackexchange I guess

Geobits

Ah, I see. I didn't notice that "discussions" are actually on another (meta) site altogether.

Joe

@skv the confusion is that area51 is a different subdomain to discussions.area51

Geobits

That just seems like an odd decision, but Area51 is odd in general I guess :P

skv

14:56

yeah very very odd if I may say

COTO

@skv It's going to take some time to get going. For one thing, 95% of the visitors to puzzling.SE don't know about the rule change yet. It's not as if meta.puzzling.SE is something most visitors will dive right into.

Joe

Interesting. I can only upvote 5 questions on the proposal

skv

yes but if we get 60 sincere followers

no reason why 40 questions with 10 upvotes each would be any later than tomorrow morning

Joe

We'd need 80 people who cast all their votes perfectly (10 per question)

Geobits

60*5 < 40*10

Or is it 5 per day?

skv

14:58

oh yeah sorry I sincerely misunderstood it

we need 80 people

Joe

We need (a) 60 followers and (b) 40 questions of +10

skv

but in any case we need 200 to commit

Joe

True

skv

its not 5 per day

5 per proposal

Joe

Just a quick markdown test

Oh nice

@BmyGuest if you just post the question title as the title, then add the link as a comment

BmyGuest

15:02

Thx Joe. Just figured it out.

Joe

:)

The 3 Proposal questions we have are very neat: cl.ly/image/0W000j0s2d3P/…

BmyGuest

I've proposed my 5 questions now. Is it worthwhile spending my votes on them, or do we rather concentrate them to get others to +10 ?

BTW, my rep is now 151 on discussions as well. Could it be that your rep is copied only once you post in area51 at all?

Victor

@BmyGuest The ideal would be to get exactly 40 questions with exactly 10 votes each. But this is utopic.

Joe

I believe on a51 you can always un-upvote to get your upvote back, as you can only vote on 5 things per proposal

Also, I think it just takes a little time to synch your account between different networks - my a51 and discuss.a51 reps were different, they mirrored each other after about 15 minutes

(176 and 101 went to 176 on both)

Victor

Voting beyond 10 is just wasting votes. Voting in questions that never reach 10 is wasteful too. Downvoting is doubly-wasteful. Close-voting is massive wasteful.

mdc32

15:10

Hey guys

skv

@Victor downvoting does not count as one of your votes

Joe

Heya mdc

skv

and again lets build the community consensus as it is

I am sure with a jumpstart we will make a great community unless SE kicks us out

Joe

@mdc32 area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/80752/… please follow it and upvote us a bit :-) Also, we're forming a focal point for the community at puzzling.xyz in the meantime until we're sure what's happening

mdc32

Discourse seems a bit strange to me... I'm just not used to it, but that's probably all

Victor

15:13

@skv Well, ok. Just tested it. I thought that downvotes counted. But anyway, you might be spoiling somebody's else upvote.

skv

I agree about the spoiling part, but we also need to ensure democracy :) but yeah things will take its own shape, we cant predict these votes

mdc32

I do like the a51 proposal, but I think that'll take a long time for people to transition

skv

the move from definition to commitment happens as soon as we have 60 followers and 40 questions with 10 upvotes each

but the move from commitment to beta is in SE's hands

Victor

@mdc32 Frankly, I think that some diamond mod will just subtly close it with no warn and no chance to argue about. But lest try anyway.

Joe

@mdc32 we have the Discourse at puzzling.xyz and I set up a basic open-source SO-clone at puzzling.joechilds.co.uk which we may move onto puzzling.xyz later. We're not sure yet

COTO

15:16

@skv It's going to take some time. It won't happen over the course of a single week, that's for sure. I expect the votes will trickle in slowly over a matter of weeks as people become aware of the rule changes in puzzling.SE.

skv

I agree COTO but once done this would be much easier than maintaining a site and community

and with Civicrm I found that it was very very quick

BmyGuest

I've added an answer to area51 "Duplicate of Puzzling.SE?" - it's basically what I thought could be the way forward for Puzzling.SE...

COTO

@skv I'm all in favour of it. I've done what I can on Area 51. It's just important that people here are aware these proposals can take time.

BmyGuest

..as does making (good) puzzles. I can wait with my brilliant ideas for a bit longer :c)

skv

Thanks COTO , its not my brainchild... was just a thought

in fact my other proposal (for my language) is still struggling and I felt what we lacked there was a community

and as soon as I saw this, I thought lets try

anyway need to leave now for a bit

see you all in a while

Joe

15:24

Cya skv

Oblongamous

I was linked here from my question "the last supper"

Joe

@Oblongamous see (a) area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/80752/… - please sign up and do some voting (b) puzzling.xyz is where we're trying to get people to look for updates on what's happening with puzzling so we can keep communication going easier

Victor

15:42

@Joe, @BmyGuest, @rand al'thor - People, the question titles in Area 51 must be descriptive. And this is hard to do since the example questions do not have bodies. Otherwise diamonds moderators will close them as "unclear what you're asking" or "Not a real question".

Psychemaster

Hello world

Victor

@Psychemaster Hello

BmyGuest

@Victor: What do you suggest? I was quoting the original title, it is close to impossible to put puzzle-content into the title, except for riddles.

Joe

@Psychemaster see (a) area51.stackexchange.com/… - please sign up and do some voting (b) puzzling.xyz is where we're trying to get people to look for updates on what's happening with puzzling so we can keep communication going easier

@Victor I agree with BmyGuest, I don't see how the title can be fully descriptive. I've edited mine to be slightly more so

Psychemaster

I already know of Area 51, but thanks anyway I guess

Victor

15:47

@BmyGuest Yes I Know. For the poisoned tea question for example, I squished it down until the last possible letter. Don't need to keep the original title.

@Joe I know, for most question it is impossible to make a descriptive title that is not long enough. But if we don't do this, a diamond mod will certainly close it as "not a real question".

Joe

@Victor would you say "Given a partial sequence of numbers, work out the sequence and provide a particular number" is acceptable (revised from "What's the password, again?") or does it need more specificity?

AeJey

Hi

Joe

@Psychemaster I meant to link area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/80752/… - my bad

AeJey

I have followed and casted my all 5 votes :)

Joe

Hi AeJay :)

Psychemaster

15:49

@Joe It's okay I've found it anyway

Victor

@Joe I think that it is better. but probably there is still room for improvement.

Psychemaster

I feel like I've jumped into a conversation halfway through here, mind

Joe

Hm

Psychemaster

Are we trying to think of a way of making question titles not suck by any chance?

Joe

In a nutshell

Psychemaster

15:51

I see.

Joe

A51 proposal requires sample questions. These can only have titles (about 120 chars). We need to cram existing puzzles into "titles" so it's clear what the puzzle would be about

Psychemaster

Mmmm

So an example like 'Given the following picture sequence, choose the next picture from these options...' would be vaguely tolerable

Joe

Maybe something like "Given the following sequence of $x$ pictures, choose the next picture from these $y$ options

Boo no MathJax in chat

Victor

@Psychemaster I can't read the mind of the mods to tell you with certainty, but I think that it passes.

Psychemaster

Well we're a small subset of the kinds of people who'd end up moderating a riddles.se or whatever (albeit an active one)

So that might be enough.

Victor

15:54

BTW, we should take care with similar titles. Otherwise a mod may be tempted to close it as duplicate.

Psychemaster

Well if we're having to lay out the entire question in titles (at least for proposal) then it would be understandable for a mod to close them as dupe if they happen to read the same way - they'd be the same question in different outfits.

Joe

I think he means things like my Serial Killer part 1/part 2, illustrating a multi-part puzzle chain

Psychemaster

I feel like any challenge should be self-contained, neither requiring nor relying on any previous entries in a series

ie. the only thing connecting the puzzles should be an overarching theme

Victor

@Joe Not just that. The fact that many "what is the next number?" puzzles to be written in a descriptive title will end all looking the same thing.

BmyGuest

16:11

@Victor Thanks for some of the edits. Do you approve of the others I made?

Victor

@BmyGuest They are clearly improving. :)

@Joe About the murder, the part 1 description should be ok. But part 2 looks vague. I am thinking in how to improve it.

Joe

Okie doke. I'm just writing a couple of discussion posts atm

Victor

@Joe What do you think about "The SErial Killer part 2 - a multipart murder mystery. Following on from the previous part, which would be the next site to be attacked?"

skv

Hm... most of these questions require a long long description

Joe

@Victor possibly. Maybe "The SErial Killer part 2 - a multipart murder mystery. Following on from the previous part, solve the next step to find the culprit" ?

Victor

16:24

@Joe Was not the culprit found in part 1 alreadyw

@skv Yes, and this is really bad for us.

Joe

@Victor no, just a clue to where to look next

The SErial Killer part 2 - a multipart murder mystery. Following on from the previous part, solve the next puzzle and work out where to look next

The SErial Killer part 1 - a multipart puzzle. You're given a story about a "murder" with clues and red herrings, and must work out where to look next

Victor

@Joe Ok, I think that it passes. Hope that the diamonds thinks the same.

I guess that all the 17 questions that we have now have good titles. :)

But if somebody can still improve that, don't be shy. :)

skv

16:40

Thanks Victor

Aioros

Hello everyone

BmyGuest

Hi Aioros

Psychemaster

@Aioros hi

Aioros

Great effort here, good job :O (the confirmation email from puzzling.xyz are still off, I guess?)

Joe

Hi @Aioros. Correct, no confirmation emails

Victor

16:45

0

Q: The Theographer's Journal

This is a riddle worded as a historical excerpt for the sake of the decipherer's entertainment. Doubt me? Read any of my other well received stylized riddles before downvoting. My riddles always end up at -5 votes within five minutes and then shoot up to +25 soon after. If you don't understand wh...

riddle

Joe

@Victor I don't understand why you linked that? :P

Victor

Looks like that he still don't know the great news...

Aioros

Best. Intro. Ever.

Joe

Couple of new discussions up on the a51 proposal if anyone feels like checking em out :-)

Victor

Emrakul posted this comment on that infamous topic:

"Let me put this bluntly. What's stopping us is that if we make this decision, Puzzling will fail out of beta and the site will be closed - and not by "moderators." It is not a choice we're allowed to make."

Aioros

16:55

I think they are being reasonable, actually.

I mean, once you rule out the possibility of another PPCG, the decision makes sense

Travis Kindred

Just heard the news... DX

A E

@Joe link to area51 discussion plox?

Joe

12

Puzzle and Riddle Challenges

Proposed Q&A site for posing challenging puzzles and riddles and answering them

Currently in definition.

A E

@TravisKindred take a look at puzzling.joechilds.co.uk/questions and join the discussion at puzzling.xyz

@Joe thanks!

Joe

@TravisKindred check out puzzling.xyz - we're trying to keep people all in one place so whatever we do, we can communicate easily with everyone :)

Travis Kindred

16:59

Will do. Man, I'm crushed... Why not just make puzzle challenges a sub-community? It would drive actual puzzle creation questions while keeping the main feed clean.

Aioros

Because that's not the point of the SE network, I guess.

Travis Kindred

That's a matter of interpretation.

skv

Yes just as Expatriates is a sister site to Travel

Aioros

Yep, but I wouldn't be too hard on the mods on this. I think they are just trying to fit in the SE rules and not to fail the beta

skv

@Aioros I agree

so area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/80752/…

Victor

17:04

1

Q: Is this subject forbidden by SE management?

Proposal: Puzzle and Riddle Challenges In comments on this thread: http://meta.puzzling.stackexchange.com/questions/1601/puzzling-se-where-we-hate-fun-its-time-to-disallow-challenge-questions moderator Emrakul gives the impression that this subject is totally forbidden by SE management. Ou...

recreation

A E

@Aioros That's also my impression. Unfortunately I'm not any more impressed by an order from SE management than I am by an order from the mods.

skv

this will be a sister site to Puzzline.SE

Joe

I've got to shoot off for a bit. I'll catch you all later :-)

Bye for now

Victor

@Joe Cya

skv

cya

Travis Kindred

17:08

Later

skv

area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/80752/…

Posted one of my questions that could fit into the space there

Victor

2

A: Puzzling.SE: Where We Hate Fun - It's time to disallow challenge questions

Your aspirations are commendable, but I don't think it is realistic to take ~90% of your content (and the community that created it) and simply toss it out telling everyone "you're doing it wrong." The story that we've convinced ourselves is that… "as soon as we stop everyone who’s using this sit...

Travis Kindred

For some reason, area 51 won't let me post. I'm logged in with 101 rep on the main page, but entering any question takes me down to one rep and makes me log in again when I try to comment. Does anyone know what's going on here?

Victor

WHAT THE HELL IS HAPPENING HERE!?

skv

:)

Victor

17:16

@TravisKindred BmyGuest had the same problem. See chat above.

skv

A community manager from SE saying that this is not what is needed

ha ha ha mockery

I am still feeling for the mods, they feel they were doing it right ... lets see how it goes

Travis Kindred

I actually really appreciate the fact that the mods care enough to try such a bold move. I just think it's the wrong one. (Still unable to figure out the area 51 issue after looking at BmyGuest's logs.

skv

@TravisKindred I agree with you regarding mods I empathise with them

Joe

17:53

So... are puzzles on-topic at Puzzling.SE again?

Aioros

I would wait for a decision from the mods

skv

:) Yeah

see you wasted money on a domain name :P

may be you can redirect it to P.SE

Joe

Yeah, if that happens I will :P £1.29 ain't much xD

*£1.19

besides I'm sure I can find a use for it heh

Even if I just use it for disposable emails, that's pretty handy :P

skv

yeah I know I was just kidding

skv

18:19

woah we have confirmation also from the VP

of community... there we go the proposal is shot down

Travis Kindred

0

A: Is it time for us to disallow challenge-only questions?

No. Firstly, I must commend our moderating team on their boldness and their dedication to the success of the stack. They knew that saying this would immediately lead to an army of puzzlers running to gnaw their heads off starting with the jugular. It's understandable. I've been sharpening my set...

My contribution.

skv

good answer

Travis Kindred

Since it seems like we're safe now and challenges are okay, should we cobble together a firm list of rules for the community? Maybe something along the lines of my riddle rules, but expanded? meta.puzzling.stackexchange.com/a/1530/5626

skv

18:35

Yes more crap means more work for watchdogs

Joe

19:10

1

Q: Positive discussion from the recent confusion

As I'm sure everyone on Meta has read, there's been quite a lot of confusion about whether or not puzzles are on-topic on Puzzling.SE. The latest information right now is from Robert Cartaino saying that everything's OK as it is - don't panic and the rest of this post assumes that things sort the...

discussion scope

Very basic fundamental stuff that we need to decide on as a community - please take a look :-)

Travis Kindred

19:23

Well done.

A E

1

Q: Should we hold a moderator election?

In this recent thread, Is it time for us to disallow challenge-only questions? it seems that moderators have a very specific idea of what this community should be, with which a large portion of the community disagrees. Should we - as a whole community - hold new moderator elections? Please note...

discussion

Joe

@AE would you mind seeing if you can put a big-ass notice on puzzling.xyz that P.SE is the place once again, and a link to the Meta post please? :-)

Victor

@Joe Hope that they will not change their minds anymore. Frankly, I don't trust this site moderation anymore.

Joe

It would appear we can't do much about it, but I think if the Community Director agrees that puzzles should be on-topic, then puzzles are on-topic. I can't deny that P.SE is the best place for us to be as a community - the traffic from the Stack is very valuable to growing P.SE

*can't do much about [the moderation]

A E

19:45

@Joe Joe, I'm still not clear if this is 'the place', to be honest. Don't worry about puzzling.xyz, the only people who are registered there are also people here in this chatroom.

If it turns out that we are staying here, then we can shut it down of course.

Ah, I see you found a way to add the big-ass notice. :) That's fine too. :P

Joe

Yeah, just found the admin panel xD

Travis Kindred

20:30

Once the site is out of beta, I wonder who the mods would be... Perhaps rand for one? AE? Joe? Ave? I'm missing plenty, I know.

Joe

We've been in beta for 6 months and haven't really had any problems with the Moderation until today. I'm not sure we get much out of that discussion until everything's well cooled off and we can look back objectively heh. We may well decide that we're just hunky dory with who we have right now :-)

Travis Kindred

Agreed. I just think that one or two at least would be happy that they've put in the work and feel a bit freed with the elections when they come. Maybe that's just why I would make a terrible mod.

Joe

At risk of upsetting some people if they do think like that, being a diamond Mod isn't status, it's a job heh. Everyone can contribute to the community and the reward is that the community you're part of grows. That's my take, anyhow. I don't want to see P.SE die, it's way too fun to spend time on :-)

AJ Henderson

20:49

@Joe amen to that ;)

and focusing in on your question on meta I think will help a lot too. I'm pretty sure they were trying to fix the problems you were describing, they just took it a (few) step too far because they had a false sense of urgency for fear of what would happen to the site. I can't know for sure, but I don't expect they were sitting around going "hey, lets kill the site today" more like

"the site has problems and we know this will fix the content problems for sure" but forgot that it also has other impacts and that it wasn't as urgent as they thought

and I'm hoping that some good will come from the stirred pot

hopefully it will renew a community focus on finding a workable standard of quality that allows for interesting puzzles to find there way up from the noise

and make answers actually worth reading

I know I'm one of the people that was involved early and love the idea of the site, but stopped going to it regularly because a) I had a child and life was busy with 5 other sites I participate on (3 of which I mod) and b) because it took too much time to filter through the noise for content that was interesting

and your suggestions would go a long way towards making it someplace I could actually find meaningful

Joe

Yeah, I need to get round to typing up The SK part 4 as well heh

I've been slacking ^_^

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