@Almo Oh, they do give a shit, they have at least 2 employees on the committee! But I agree that it's "only" 2 :)

My template code generates and compiles. Now, does it do what I want it to do? I'll need to find a use-case.

It seems like it does.

That's the most complicated code I've written in a while and I don't like it because "complicated" and "low" bus factor don't go well together...

@Almo well, C# also has something which is waaaaaay weaker in functionality then C++ templates

So it's a lot easier to make proper error messages if there's fewer options for errors

(Also it helps that all the information about the generic being compile-able is available at the definition of the generic)

@AlexandreVaillancourt Me too. Having to work with latex which simply says "Error. Stop." made me appreciate C++ error messages.

@nwp That's helpful!

Is it ok for a complete novice to start with Vulkan?

You should probably know some programming first. Although it's weird for a novice to have such a specific goal.

I dunno.. I keep seeing posts such as this one and I'm like "err, you don't want it easy, do you?"

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Looks like WinAPI, not Vulkan.

Also this person is trying to cheat in a game. I don't approve.

@nwp Oh god, silly me, you're right :)

I'll try to find another example :)

@nwp But they said they just want to understand the process. Clearly they won't use it for an actual advantage. You believe them, don't you?

What kind of monster would program a cheat to a game and then actually use it?

Me!

Not.

Programming cheats are fun!

But then I stop playing the game shortly after I cheated, because the game is no more fun (it was no more fun before I started writing the cheat stuff).

You dirty cheater.

I can kinda see that.

@nwp I totally said that ;)

@Kevin That makes sense, I did not know C# templates weren't as beefy. :)

And I totally ruined the experience of other clickers. I took all of their cookies :P

I also have less problems with modifying a single-player game that clicks cookies

Theres a difference between that and giving people a competitive advantage in real-time gameplay

@bruglesco Yeah. I would less dare cheat in a multiplayer game because of potential ban.

@AlexandreVaillancourt Unless the game is EOL for you and the ban won't matter

Ruining other people's game experience is a pretty dick move.

@bruglesco Even if it's EOL for me, I care enough to not fry my account.. you know sunk cost fallacy and what if's...

I remember playing Fantasy Tennis in a double with a cheater on my side. Stats boosted ridiculously high so the opponents couldn't catch the ball.

@nwp Agreed, and I did not create cheats that did that.

@nwp Yeah, must have been annoying.

But tennis rules are balanced in a way that I could hit balls wrong enough to force a stalemate for a while. Then I played normally and hit the ball reliably and then just didn't, causing a loss.

I was very proud of that loss.

@nwp I agree

@AlexandreVaillancourt fair

I miss that game :(

Too bad I can only play Mario Tennis Aces on Nintendo's witch.

Which I don't have.

@Almo C# is essentially "Define in the template(generic) code everything you're going to use." - If you want to call methods on the objects? Then you need to specify an interface the objects need to implement. You want to construct new ones? Then you need to specify that they have a default constructor

That doesn't seem that limiting.

So the compiler is able to go "Okay, the method code will work for anything that implements these interfaces/limits, good!" and separately go "the generic parameters you're using match the pre-specified restrictions, good!"

@nwp no ducktyping for one

The classes that you use in the parameters actually need to implement those interfaces

The type must explicitly specify that it fulfills an interface?

Yeah

class Bla : IThing

Oh, that sucks. Can't extend anything.

Yeah

So it's pretty limiting

You can't see it as code-substitution like in templates with C++. Because it's not

Now don't get me wrong, it is for a lot of things plenty powerful

But those things are mostly containers, which just... contain an object

As long as you don't do anything with the objects except pass them around, generics are plenty powerful

Apparently it's called Fantasy Tennis 2 and is hard to find now because so many other games have very similar titles. And there seem to be plenty of people who still love the game and would pay good money for it. Oh well.

@Kevin thanks for the further info on that, it's pretty interesting :)

No prob :)

Can't write a proper max function :(

Maybe I should try some more languages. Probably D and pony.

Yeah, that won't work unless the classes implement an interface to signal their support for the max function, which is pretty dumb. And also means it wouldn't work with normal numbers

Does GLee not exist anymore?

Maintaining code is a nightmare :(

@nwp I'm guessing you don't mean the TV show

:D

I don't. I mean this.

What was the other one called? Glew? Or has Microsoft stopped boycotting OpenGL to push DirectX?

I'm absolutely not up to date with any of that.

That's fine. You probably need to be out of date to even know what that is.

It's rendering libraries, no?

It's a "make OpenGL functions available on Windows" library.

And OpenGL is a rendering library?

No, a rendering standard implemented in the graphics card (driver). You just need OpenGL-compatible hardware and a way to get at the functions.

Windows natively supports OpenGL 1.0. If you want something newer you have to use other means of getting at the functions.

Glee and glew basically probe the hardware a bit and give you function pointers to the OpenGL graphics functions.

Which is a pain to do manually.

ahh