Game Development

There's even an achievement called "Human Factor" when a stick grenade ends up killing another guy when the guy with grenade runs without knowing what to do

MickLH

Halo did that 10 years earlier

Stick a grunt, they run wildly and often straight to the elite in their squad.

user92578

@DavidFreitag I'm always into hearing ideas (and crushing those when I dont like them :D) so dont worry about it!

Jon

7:34 PM

user92578

I will actually be working on AI this week so this might be a good time for sticky grenades

user92578

Needs an exclamation mark

David Freitag

@Tyyppi_77 I figured, I just wanted to make sure :]

MickLH

@Tyyppi_77 This, is more or less your entire problem.

user92578

lol

user92578

7:36 PM

Was kinda waiting for that

user92578

:D

DH.

Well, the difference is that in Spec Ops: The Line they run aimlessly, it running into another guy is a matter of luck

David Freitag

@MickLH Being open to suggestion is a problem?

user92578

Didnt even know I had a problem

MickLH

The point of hearing ideas is to gain new ideas that you didn't understand, and therefore couldn't like.

Being open to suggestions is the solution

user92578

7:37 PM

Thanks for the help, once again Mick

David Freitag

Yeah, that was super inciteful.

MickLH

You're welcome, should I post links to remind you that you're not sarcastic?

Should we go over the basic mathematics I spent weeks in total helping you learn that nobody else was willing to, that you never would have solved yourself?

user92578

Please do, there are new people here who are not familiar with your well known friendlyness

user92578

Remember when you used a puppet account to insult my game and my approach to ledge slipping?

MickLH

I use puppet accounts exclusively for entertainment and to tickle my own ego, it has nothing to do with you

DH.

7:40 PM

^typical internet "troll"

user92578

Right, you trashing my game has nothing to do with me

user92578

My bad

MickLH

@Tyyppi_77 Lets not get started on this man, I made a simple comment, can we not have a personal war over it?

user92578

Lol

MickLH

We'll never end up as friends again if we have to have a war about every sentiment

user92578

7:41 PM

1) post an insulting comment

user92578

2) claim that its my fault that were over at this again

MickLH

Ok I think you missed the point, you've done plenty of crap I can bring up too... Lets just not be petty.

I'm sorry if you are sorry, there's not much more to cover about that

user92578

Then why the fuck start with "here is your problem that is not actually real, its just me trashing you again"

DH.

This can become a better love story than Twilight

user92578

nope, weve been at this for so long

MickLH

7:43 PM

@Tyyppi_77 Because that's how I am ok? Why are you trashing me for the personality I was born with and have done a LOT of effort to improve?

If I were spiteful, I wouldn't be asking you to be a friend or saying I am most likely sorry...

I'm not spiteful, I have nothing against you or your game. I am simply a harsh asshole very often.

user92578

Because the personality always ends up trashing me, my views, my code, my game and my habbits

MickLH

But it's not trashing, I literally only spend time making effort on things I care about.

DH.

Or being sadist

David Freitag

@Tyyppi_77 I think if there is anything to learn from the consensus, it's that your game is brilliant, don't listen to any outliers that get their kicks by pissing people off on the internet.

MickLH

If I were talking trash I would say "You can't do it", not spend time and energy saying I know you can do better.

user92578

7:46 PM

Yeah I kinda get that. However "you can do better" is really hard to dig up from your messages.

MickLH

The fact that the things you bring up are subtle improvements you could do is the proof on that

You are complaining because I said, "You can handle this edge case with perfection, I know you can code that so do it!"

It's not like I said, omg I hate gunhero.

user92578

You said "lol I only play real games"

MickLH

I've said a lot of things and so have you.

user92578

And TBH I still have no clue what's wrong with rays and ledges

user92578

@MickLH yeah this is true

MickLH

7:49 PM

I don't want to play a game of "tit for tat" because even if we tally up every single thing each other have said, we're not gonna end up with, Oh I said 2 more mean things than you, ok it's my fault and my feelings evaporated now.

user92578

I understand that

MickLH

I have most likely said more mean things to you than the other way around, like I mentioned earlier it's natural to me and I make a conscious effort to avoid it but I can't just magically be the perfect way you want me to be.

user92578

I appreciate the help you have given me (beziers...) but it's all the other stuff about you "caring" that's hard for me to getpast

MickLH

I understand it's hard to get past man... I really do and there's no way I could prove it.

DH.

Although I know that I'm very irritating saying stupid things in middle of this, I must be honest that you Tyyppi must accept the way how everybody is on the internet. When you will post your project to the whole internet you will get all sort of reviews that will be even worse of what Mick says really

user92578

7:55 PM

I believe you. Maybe I'll try to read your messages from a more obscure point of view and you'll try to make the "you can do better" a little more constructive in the future?

MickLH

Will do!

Ironically, despite how we opened conversation today... I've made decent progress in the last year or two and you might notice a difference lol

user92578

@DH. I see that, however this chat room is a way more intimate place for me than a Steam review page.

user92578

(...Will be someday)

DH.

Oh ofc, since this a gamedev place everybody wants to learn and help in a friendly manner

Jon

making a ui for mobile is totally different than making a ui for pc

you have to make everything huge

Alexandre Vaillancourt

7:58 PM

I don't. I like to close questions and to downvote newbies.

Jon

YUGE

user92578

Lol

DH.

Just cover the screen with one button

Alexandre Vaillancourt

Jon

Cover the screen with a bunch of shit UI

makes your game have that edge

The less usable it is the better

@PearsonArtPhoto

Here, you can replace that entire bottom part of the dialog with a "health bar" style setup, that changes from Green->Yellow->Orange->Red

Would be a lot more clear than a slider and a YUGE rectangle

Almo

8:11 PM

@MickLH thought you might dig that. :)

Jon

narf.pl/posts/sketchy-procedures

I made a gif of the algorithm

Seems like a lot of work to make something look hand drawn.. lol

OMGtechy

@Tyyppi_77 let the haters hate, I am part of your fanclub :D

DH.

Better just make it literally hand drawn

MickLH

@Jon But you know it would look cool as fuck to render in 3D with cel shading and compute silhouettes and creases, then apply that process to the resulting outlines and compost it together

Almo

sure would like to remove ternaries from C-style languages.

MickLH

8:24 PM

@Almo Correct.

David Freitag

@Almo What's wrong with ternaries?

Almo

they do what I hate: compress logic onto as few lines as possible.

David Freitag

Well that's why you don't misuse ternaries

Almo

when I see them in code I have to read them several times to make sure they're correct.

using them at all is misusing them. ;)

David Freitag

At least ternaries in C-style languages is sensible. Ternaries in PHP are completely mental

Almo

8:26 PM

especially when casts show up

David Freitag

@Almo Yeah my only use cases for ternaries are (something == constant) ? (constant) : (constant)

Almo

NPCBodyInfo.Instance.GenerateBody((_gender == Gender.None)?(int) Gender.Female:(int) _gender);

David Freitag

@Almo Yeah that's misusing ternaries

Almo

that's not even complex and it's still hard to read

MickLH

Ternaries in C are neutered because they can only handle expressions of the exact same type which causes that disgusting double-casting

Almo

8:28 PM

this is C#

oh I see what you mean

right

MickLH

I don't know if the rule even applies in C#, but the ugly style has made it through

David Freitag

@MickLH That is by design, so people don't try to make disgusting abominations like that

Almo

hahah :D

MickLH

But that's all they use it for :'(

David Freitag

The only time I use a ternary is if the entire statement can be written in less than 40 characters

Otherwise it's an if / else. Especially if there are differences in data types

MickLH

8:30 PM

I'll just say I purposely left it out of my compiler, even for the "good" cases it slightly obscures the logic because it creates an invisible variable in any case where it had good reason to exist.

David Freitag

I understand the sentiment. It's far too easy to abuse ternaries

What looks and feels sensible at the time wilh translate to complete gibberish when you go back and read it in 6 months

MickLH

I'm sorry that people who are careful get punished by decisions like that but I think it will even benefit someone in your position because you can easily write it as an "if" and then you save having to deal with every misguided instance that could have existed.

David Freitag

I mean it makes sense, an if/else is far more explicit than a ternary

MickLH

As usual though take my sentiment with a grain of salt. I've developed some kind of extremest view and have even turned against switch/case and think it would be better off disappearing too.

I think that situation should be solved by either reducing the table to a more general formula, or by explicitly creating a map full of lambda functions

David Freitag

@MickLH Yeah more often than not I write switch/case statements and they look just fine at the time, but after a while I return to that bit of code in horror at the abomination

Almo

8:38 PM

hahah :D

David Freitag

I think I've come to the conclusion that state machine logic that is based on some function/class code can never be anything other than an abomination

Because you either end up with a massive switch/case block, or a ridiculous if/else if/else block that's far too long

PearsonArtPhoto

8:53 PM

@Jon So what you are suggesting then is that I remove the text, and simply color the healthbar? I'm slightly unclear as to what you are stating...

More like that?

Jon

Kinda

What is that slider thing?

MickLH

9:14 PM

@DH. I resent this, btw

Almo

Mick's trolling isn't typical. That's what he meant.

PearsonArtPhoto

The slider is the amount of goods to load. For a mission, it's a binary choice. For loading goods, well, the amount of the goods can be selected.

Jon

I guess I still don't understand

PearsonArtPhoto

MickLH

I like it better already tbh

PearsonArtPhoto

9:19 PM

This is definitely an area that could use a bit of work. I should probably show the cost and the amount of goods to load.

Yeah, I knew I didn't quite like it before, this is an improvement...

I suppose with the extra space, I could replace the text below with "Goods" and "Cost", or something.

I think much as I dislike it, I'm going to have to do two different dialogs, one for picking up goods, and a second for missions. Or at least replace the area between the button and the ship for each case.

Sigh. And I was hoping I'd get to move on this week. Still, it's nice to have the UI getting better every time.

Maybe if I get really fancy I'll show the goods filling up in the cargo hold when sliding, but that kind of fanciness I'll reserve for a day the game is more complete.

Okay, I think I know what to do now...

Actually, it might be better to just do units. The value will show up as $100 (Or some arbitrary currency symbol), and the cargo as "10 tons"

Jon

9:44 PM

keep working on it

you need to make it simple

people need to immediately understand what it is they can do

Almo

^

Jon

And I'm not the greatest at it, but I'm pretty good at UI design I think

Some people are ridiculously good at it

PearsonArtPhoto

I know I'm far from the best...

I'm getting better, that's all I can really say.

MickLH

@Jon Yeah usually the IT guys are separate from the UI and UX guys

PearsonArtPhoto

Unfortunately my first choice for a game is a very UI intensive game... Sigh. Oh well...

David Freitag

9:50 PM

@PearsonArtPhoto This is a good thing. You will learn tons because of this project. Things that you can carry on into future projects.

PearsonArtPhoto

True enough.

Almo

i try to minimize UI and level design in my games, because I like doing neither. :)

my minesweeper game had levels, but they were built by an algo that tested them for required difficulty

PearsonArtPhoto

You certainly accomplished both in your last game.

There are levels, but they are computer generated as well.

Almo

yup

I assigned parameters for the level sets, and let the algo build them

Jon

@Almo whats up with having 2 of the same topper in rocket league?

Almo

9:55 PM

no idea

84

Q: Moral dilemma in unwittingly being paid to complete a student's work

I am a computer science freelancer who takes on medium-sized projects I can complete in a month or less. I was approached by someone who wanted a set of 12 tutorials at least 500 words each about certain programming topics with code examples and workouts. We talked payment and I accepted this pro...

PearsonArtPhoto

Okay, so I'll use crates, and an arbitrary currency symbol, ₷

Spesmilo

The spesmilo (pronounced [spesˈmilo], plural spesmiloj [spesˈmiloi̯]) is an obsolete decimal international currency, proposed in 1907 by René de Saussure and used before the First World War by a few British and Swiss banks, primarily the Ĉekbanko esperantista. The spesmilo was equivalent to one thousand spesoj, and worth 0.733 grams (0.0259 oz) of pure gold (0.8 grams of 22 karat gold), which at the time was about one-half United States dollar, two shillings in Britain, one Russian ruble, or 2½ Swiss francs. On 19 January 2014, that quantity of gold would be worth about $33 U.S. dollars, £22 British...

Maybe I'll come up with a better one eventually, but it'll do for now...

Jon

10:09 PM

if you fail, the UI is red

Almo

get rid of that space before the "!"

:)

I think I would not make a button. just say "touch to continue"

Jon

I don't think I can

Almo

and a touch anywhere on the screen would advance

just an idea

Jon

I want them to press the button though

lol

MickLH

Ooh I'm gonna also independently suggest what Almo said

Almo

10:11 PM

THA BUTTON

MickLH

I had it backwards at first, I thought well do you need the text since the button is pretty obvious

Almo

adventurega.me/bootstrap

that link is funny

Jon

Look, it just says that for the first tutorial lesson

its not like it ALWAYS says PRESS THE BUTTON

David Freitag

@Almo Hahahaha

Almo

:D

@Jon oh right :)

PearsonArtPhoto

10:13 PM

MickLH

That website is kinda the best

PearsonArtPhoto

The word trade needs to go too, but...

I'll get there.

Words will be on the next pass, after I get everything else acceptable.

MickLH

@PearsonArtPhoto you know the pulsating glow effect that lets you know when a button becomes recommended to press?

I know you know it, which is why I didn't post a picture, I just wanted to see if lighting up that piece of your brain would trigger any new ideas :P

PearsonArtPhoto

Like that?

MickLH

Yeah, there's also the variant where the glow is inside the button but does the same animation cycle

PearsonArtPhoto

10:16 PM

If I ever get this game done, I'm going to have to put this chatroom in the credits;-)

Hmmm....

David Freitag

@PearsonArtPhoto Ooooh very sci-fi, I love it!

PearsonArtPhoto

Except the game isn't supposed to be sci-fi...

David Freitag

@PearsonArtPhoto I was just thinking that

PearsonArtPhoto

LOL.

David Freitag

Doesn't appear to fit the current theme, but they are still quite cool

MickLH

10:19 PM

It doesn't have to be perfect on the first try, it still serves the purpose of drawing fresh attention to the button at the right moment

David Freitag

Although I do thing that a glow effect for a tutorial would be nice

Often times I find the most difficult part about UI heavy games is getting to know how everything works

Almo

EVE has that problem

holy shit

MickLH

@DavidFreitag You can make anything with transparent background glow by filling the non-tansparent areas with your glow color, doing a gaussian blur, and then drawing the original over the top of that blur so that it obscures all the solid glow color pixels.

David Freitag

@Almo Yes dude oh man

Almo

i like eve and i play it... but that UI man.

and it's even improved over the years.

David Freitag

10:23 PM

@MickLH Yeah I mean however you work it, it needs to be very aparent

Or a big "click this here" giant red arrow

MickLH

Oh I thought you meant a technical tutorial, like how box-shadow would be implemented in a web browser renderer :P

David Freitag

Haha, no I mean a tutorial on how to play the game

PearsonArtPhoto

Hmmm... I'll have to look more into that sometime, but it seems a bit tricky for now...

I've got a few ideas for sure, however.

David Freitag

Just something to add to that massive (and growing) list of things to ponder

PearsonArtPhoto

This definitely looks much better. I've got a few algorithm tweaks to make, but...

That's the fun part:-)

@DavidFreitag Added a new list to Trello of proposed UI changes, and added that to the list. Will have to try and do something that fits the theme, but that might be tricky...

David Freitag

10:31 PM

@PearsonArtPhoto Maybe highlight the button with an orange halo?

Intense enough to be noticed, but thin enough so that it's not blinding

PearsonArtPhoto

I did a cursory search for Unity and didn't find an easy way to do that. I'm sure there is a way, but at this point in time, if it's not relatively easy for UI, I don't want to mess with it too much.

David Freitag

Yeah no sense in a complicated solution

Especially when you can just change the color of the button itself

Jon

@PearsonArtPhoto looks nicer

PearsonArtPhoto

Thanks:-)

Jon

one thing, you should always have a cancel option available

possibly an X at the top right

PearsonArtPhoto

10:39 PM

There is, kind of.

It will cancel if the trade is invalid. But I agree that I don't like it...

A way to close the dialog might work. Hmmm...

MickLH

Also just having "Cancel" and "OK" be separate buttons is pretty tried-and-true

Though I'm a firm believer in "Cancel" to the left of "OK" since you will usually press "OK", so that when you read it left-to-right you are already looking at "OK" when you finish reading, so you don't have to think much at all and can just go in for the click

PearsonArtPhoto

I suppose I could do that, and just disable the "Okay" button if invalid...

MickLH

Well again I'm just aiming to stir up ideas, I didn't think it through very carefully for your specifics because I don't know all the intricate details of your game

PearsonArtPhoto

I much appreciate it.

MickLH

:)

PearsonArtPhoto

10:44 PM

Okay, so I'll do another quick test build, to see if you guys see anything else. Let me know. gamebucket.io/game/9f0e75bf-da22-4531-94b3-b13b1e1b2c50

Jon

10:54 PM

still don't understand what I have to do

why do i click contract board?

what is contract board?

what is reward?

what is carry cargo to 19

MickLH

@Jon It means you're hiring a team of directors to do policy decision-making

Jon

what is carry goods?

MickLH

You know? When you contract a board?

Jon

make me music

that last tune was awesome

make it again, but more playful

MickLH

@Jon Do you have an example of something that is "playful enough" ?

Jon

10:57 PM

like you are high on those drugs I was given when i snapped my ankle

3

yeah

TheMuffinCoder

LOL

Hey I wanna listen to it, are you making it MickLH?

Jon

purple-planet.com/fun-backgrounds/4586388999

TheMuffinCoder

tyvm

Jon

Mouse trap

but not as sinister sounding

MickLH

@Jon I'm still not sure if you were drugged with an opiate or a benzo?

I have to be sure before I take one, they aren't really safe to mix and it's an all day thing

Jon

11:00 PM

purple-planet.com/fun/4583971361

On Tiptoe

something cheerful

for kids

but not bad

Shenanigans on that page actually

MickLH

that's surprisingly hard to make music for kids lol, they haven't had as many pop-culture tropes and real world sounds burned into their head with emotions attached

Jon

it is hard to find happy music

composers are all fucken depressed and broke

MickLH

lol, also happy music just doesn't sound as cool

Jon

tinybuild.com/punch-club-has-been-pirated-over-1-million-times

I find it interesting that adding language support, added a huge wave of piracy

Also

For every Android sale there are 12 pirates
For every iOS sale there are 2 pirates

Which to me, is not suprising -- considering how easy it is to install unlicensed software on android

MickLH

Boom! Proof that DLC is a better way to monetize! They could have >3x the audience if they include the pirates by making the core game free in the first place and charging for the content instead.

Jon

11:07 PM

the thing is, the game is shit.

they sold 300K

and their game is literally a clicker

MickLH

@Jon so I'm imagining something like la traviata but more whimsical with a sprinkle of silly, is that a reasonable image?

TheMuffinCoder

I read that article, but isn't the extra popularity from the pirates good since most times people who pirate stuff wouldn't buy the game in the first place

But if they have lots of players playing, maybe those players could recommend it to others that would buy it

Almo

11:25 PM

I'm actually tempted to make a tending game.

people love that shit

PearsonArtPhoto

@Jon So, Contract Board is supposed to be a place where you pick up contracts. It's a very poor name, I'll have to come up with a better one.

The city names right now are just numbers, in that case, 19. I need to get better names, but numbers are all that I have for now.

Reward is also another poor choice, but it is what you gain for fulfilling the contract.

When you go to a city, the idea is that there's a number of places you can stop. At first, I reduce the complexity by only having one place, where you can pick up contracts.