yeah of course

long into future. much better

looking at your profile, did you get tired of the game biz to make the $$$

I'm actually heading back into games at the end of the month

not me, okay

nice

do quite a bit of web dev myself over yrs

I dont think mobile, in its current form, is sustainable. But I dont know where we're going to be next. I personally see more of a "seamless" kind of thing, where you can play the same content on multiple devices with similar experiences.

I also think we're slowly stabalising down from every title being a AAA console title (as it was during the mid 2000's) to more like film, where there's 10ish large big budget titles. and the industry really cant support more than that.

hah "not sustainable"? lol makes no sense

I'd like to highlight the increase in iOS to PC ports

But thats a big change, and studios are looking at mobile and going "nope", and then looking at AAA and going "nope". there's got to be somewhere in the middle that works, things like double fine are doing

its the so-called "long tail"

@vzn from a business point of view, you dont want to be in mobile unless you already are in mobile. and have a very large user base you can leverage

middle is getting squeezed it seems.

agreed that mobile will probably consolidate to a few large companies.

but they will crank out many titles.

based on hits.

its all cyclic. this is the time to be on pc and console as the big boys are pulling back

but really

some "cycles" are not cycles and are actually slow downward spirals :p

you're sort of comparing apples to oranges

the mess on mobile will sort itself out as budgets increase out of the reach of single person developers

mobile gaming != PC gaming

I mean PC gaming is the relevant type of gaming

mobile gaming is what kids do

mobile gaming is overtaking PC gaming. agreed they are totally different beasts thats the pt.

well I think console gaming was also always ahead of PC gaming

mobile gaming generally overtaking "platform" gaming both pc/consoles

but this never caused it to die

mobile gaming, right now, looks very similar to what very early computer game industry was like in the 80's

exactly. agreed.

its mostly early days.

you'll note that it eventually collapsed due to there being too much product, and not enough market

pc market did not really "collapse"...

it "consolidated".

it was a kind of a bubble.

similar to dotcoms early 2000s.

a gold rush.

actually gold rushes are not quite the same as (economic) bubbles. some similarity.

maybe. if you go back to the really early days. like the atari2600/bbc micro/spectrum days.

that's pleistocene right?

thats what this is like. and there were numerous platform shifts that caught people out. there was more product than there were consumers

heh.

there was a "great collapse"

as its known :)

there are various collapses.

anyway. it will be fascinating to see where we end up

its a mismatch in supply/demand.

its the adam smith "invisible hand" experiencing discontinuities.

exactly. fascinating field. moves fast. like IT. similar.

a race.

evolutionary race.

you are lucky to work in the biz =)

ill put 0.5$ on mobile being a complete red herring. I think oculous is a dead end, but I have no idea where we're going to end up ;)

avoided it due to the "crunch" myself.

have several friends in it.

mobile is far from a red herring dude.

thats another rant ;)

it is only true that it wont take over everything.

I think oculus as a brand is going nowhere

but VR as a thing is going to be huge

I mean it's sort of obvious

mobile, i see, as a stepping stone to something else

what that something else is, im not sure.

hmm ok.

that remote gaming thing shows promise.

wearable? watch based computing? basically, making the device something more integrated

yeah wearable will be a big deal.

augmented reality games.

think those will be huge

what was that company that was gonna do remote gaming? forget the name argh

@Grey augmented reality hentai games ;) ;) ;)

I'd play those around you

I dont see AR being a thing for a while. but we'll see. the cast-ar glasses may tip that over the cool barrier

(I want some of those cast ar glasses to code with!)

AR not soon because what, its hard?

the glasses are $$$ right now thats a huge obstacle

cast-ar? what is that

google it :D

ok. i need to get back to work

ping me if you need me

l8r nice chatting

hentai? how about tentacle porn :p

lol same thing

man you sure show some grim future for PC gaming

it will be around a long time.

I hope there will still be a real Fallout 3 sometime soon

didnt say its crashing

just saying its "shifting"

look at PC sales vs mobile.

only halfway through this discussion did I remember that I actually develop mobile games

and concentrate on ads and IAP

its a big deal.

IAP?

must be the fact that I don't play anything mobile

like, ever

@vzn in app purchases

ok right

dont worry you can have the best of all worlds, see

microtransactions basically

nice. yeah microcurrency is a big deal.

does it work over credit cards?

yeah each app store manages all purchases

have been researching bitcoin recently. wild stuff

they're account bound

cool

the hardcore gamers gravitate to expensive PCs

its driving some of the innovation in the PC biz.

its more "high end" gamers.

I mostly play old games :(

its all good

I still have some childhood left that I didn't finish lol

old school =)

not ready to fully switch to modern games

join the club man =)

heh

try a game called "gravity crash" ps3.. luv it

old/new mixed... great stuff

although havent played for over 2yr probably haha

never owned a console except for a PSP and an Xbox on which I played Doom 3, Burnout Revenge and BLACK

always been on PCs

yeah

not sure it's worth it for me to buy a console now

I mean I haven't seen anything exclusive or interesting on the Xbox one or ps4

← guitar hero :p

yeah ps4 doesnt make any sense to me right now

not that much into music based games :(

I sort of like FPS and RPG, mostly

its all fun

quite the party you guys have here, fun2 =)

nice to find active chats.

some are ghosttowns, a lot of those

yeah stick around

not sure how much this is worth mentioning but

nevermind, it would've been silly enough

?

even for me

lol @ToddersLegrande you changed your avatar

dude this is chat. we were just talking about wwwiii/russia haha anything goes

@vzn I was going to say that most of the messages here are mine

chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/info/19/game-development

but I thought it might scare you away olol

haha no big deal man

chat rooms are for chatting

ikr

do you like to talk about controversial topics?

talk about whatever... someone else raised that topic forget who

a big melee

yes do sometimes cover controversial stuff in blog

awesome

I always get flagged for taking sides in controversial situations and topics

that fucking sucks

blindly censoring yourself is bad for your health

flagged in chat?

eyup

see it was you that started the russia topic :p

yeah but the thing now is that nobody approves of russia's doing

se chat is mostly a wild west free for all.

ppl talk about whatever.

yes, that's what I'm trying to tell people

it only depends on who owns the chatroom. nobody else cares mostly

you can open your own chatroom with anything goes.

dont let em hassle you.

but it does help to be on topic :p

anyway, if I posted those messages about russia and their sexual vodka addiction before they invaded ukraine

everyone would have been like "OOOOH OFFENSIVE WHAT IS THIS RUSSIANS ARE GOOD GUYS FUCK YOU"

its nice se chat is so freeform, its almost like the opposite of se, where everything has to fit in a tight little box. ugh

yes

making the chatrooms follow such rigid rules as the se is a bad idea

and just promotes fake behavior

do suggest you talk about politics in a politics chat room you will get better dialog anyway

or cultural room or whatever

what kind of sincere discussions can you expect to have when the rules themselves force you to lie

there are no rules dude

yeah but I can't really jump from chatroom to chatroom

why not? its easy

and I like to discuss a variety of topics

all the time

and I'd rather discuss them with people I know :(

yeah ok

your friends generally wont flag you...

not necessarily friends

what do "they" do with chat flags?

raising topics here is still different from joining a completely new chatroom and saying "hai guys, let's talk about politics"

do they go to the room owners?

normally, users from other chatrooms smell them

and we get invaded

if you just airbrush out your language you are unlikely to get flags it seems

smell what?

in some situations, I also get to share some tea with a select few of them

@vzn the smell of flags

it's the smell of death

brimstone.

??? makes no sense to me

there is no way for users to detect flags right? other than owners

you get suspended when you get flagged enough

nope, flags are shown network-wide for users with enough rep

did you get flagged in this room or elsewhere?

huh no kidding weird

how much rep? thats strange never heard of that

no idea

doesnt sound right to me

l8r man nice chatting have good one may stop by again

please do

I'll be off too

cya :)

Baby come back

@MattD Hey buddy! :)

Well, got animation working. But the art looks shite :(

@hasherr is your game now on?

@BlueBug No

Still waiting for credit union to send me stuff

@BlueBug Friday

o_k

Will you get it?

I will download it once it's out then leave you some feedback, will you price it? || free.

Free w/ no ads

It's only my first app. Maybe next app I will give a price, if I find the need

yei free w/o ads is the best AND NO MICROTRANSECTION. god bless you man.

No probs, dude.

Fuck micro transactions, I'll never put those in ANY game that I ever make..

I think micro transactions are a great thing

I love the ability to purchase only what I want, and even give more to a company for a game I play a lot of

the freemium approach is a pretty great thing. I just don't much care for the pay to win idea

I do like micro transactions when they do not interfere with gameplay. My issue with microtransection games is that when it becomes a timegate; have to wait for a few hours or day to progress .

Pay to win is alright with me as well. These folks would have bought "winning items" in game or other online game markets. but just a bit of disappointment for devs to support "pay to win"

My thing with them is that they are more often than not blatant scams

Farmville might say 'free' on the cover, but as soon as they get you hooked in, they'll start charging you for more and more things.

It's like a drug dealer. First hit is on them, but that's just to get you addicted. After that, they'll start charging you more and more.

It's hardly a scam

Having the option to purchase more doesn't mean you have to?

remove that question mark

There is this crazy ass thing called self control

Eh, I guess.

My biggest pet peeve with mictrans is when developers put microtrans all over their games to the point where you'll click one on accident and accidentally lose 5 bucks or something.

Hmm, I can't say I've ever had that issue myself.

I guess if they are indeed making it easy to accidentally spend money, then that is a big design concern

Though, most systems that facilitate one click purchasing require you to intentionally set that up. Therefore, you could just disable one click purchasing

Major games such as World of Tanks, League of Legands, Dota 2, and APB provide a pretty insane amount of game for absolutely free, with spending money being completely optional, and in no way required to experience everything the game has to offer

Unless cosmetic changes are something to be experienced

Okay, those are different'

I'm thinking more along the lines of scammy facebook or iPhone games

I have no problem with that.

Fuuck. I don't know how to do this chemistry problem.

sounds like a good opportunity to do some reading

the necessity to know something is wonderful

Reading up on it. I agree with you, it makes me sad that kids my age don't look forward to learning every day.

People in general regardless of age tend to shy away from learning

I think it's because they learn things that they don't want to learn for many years until they get to what they'd normally consider the 'good stuff.'

material that doesnt apply to your particular field of study or specialty can be difficult to be motivated about

Thats why graduate school is so great

because thats when you really start to specialize

I don't plan to go to graduate school.

Ah, okay

I loved it

I miss school honestly

Unless I go to college, finish undergrad, go get work, and then come back a few years later

A lot of people say that.

I've considered pusuing a doctoral program, but I'm not sure its the wisest decision at this point

Personally, I'm trying to make it last. I'm starting to realize at this point that this is the last year that I'm really going to be considered a child.

In a year, I'll have a job (hopefully), car, gas and insurance to pay for, loads of schoolwork, etc

Moving up and out

Just a part of growing up.

@Evan I guess if it's what you want. At this point, it's probably for enjoyment, but you should go for it if it seems like you'd enjoy it :)

Yeah I may, we shall see. I'm enjoying my time in the game industry at the moment. If I decide to move on from it, I may pursue the doctoral program then

I don't know if I want to work in games or not.

It seems like such a rough industry in some places, but other places not so much

An industry where your fanbase doesnt appreciate you, you dont get paid as much, and you work more

It certainly doesnt sound inviting when described like that

I want to go for a Ph.D at some point, but I need to finish my bachelors first.

lol

@Evan But is it really like that?

Yes it is

You can make lots more money working in other software development industries

You can work regular predictable hours in other software industries

You wont have an army of entitled brats telling you that you suck in other industries

But

You land the right gig in the game industry, and you come out of it bad ass as fuck

in terms of skills

Games is a great place to get damn good

In what ways?

People aren't appreciative :\

@Noctrine I learned this the hard way. I showed a prototype of an app to my friends at school, and all they could talk about were the problems in it.

I like hearing whats bad about my work, negative feedback is soo much more inspiring than positive feedback.

"Why don't you fix it?" "Why is this broken?" "Hasn't it been like 2 weeks? Why isn't it done yet?"

I don't want death threats, because I tweaked something.

It got to the point where I basically said 'Fuck you, if you think it's so easy then you do it.'

I haven't shown any of my stuff to any of my friends since, except my programmer friends.

@Noctrine That's why I love this room so much. I get GOOD feedback in here. I get good and bad feedback, but I rarely if ever receive shitty feedback.

People here are dedicated to their craft (a bit more than the average)

Everyone is a critic but most peoples critiques are worthless

I once read a really great article about how there are 3 kinds of feedback (good, negative, shitty) and how to avoid shitty and use good/negative to your advantage.

It was a really great article, I'll see if I can find it.

Eh, I need to go to bed. Goodnight, guys.

get to bed? I'm still at work!

I just got home, and am still working :p

I think there are two types of motivation when comes to game dev; you make game because you like it yourself but also because you want others to like it as well.

love it yourself more, then who cares even if your peers give bad reviews, you are gona make it anyway, but listen to bad reviews.

"bad review" I mean good review that can be bitter.

@Todders oomg

YOu CHANGED UR AVATAR

hi all. could you please help me to find out, what should developer know to be able to create non-gaming application for Sony PlayStation4. i've failed searching all over internet.

@BlueBug: well put, I'd add 3rd type - you like to be making the game

@KromStern just enjoying the process of making game?

Yep, doing all the inner workings

Ive made skeletal animation last month - was very excited about that

from grounds up, all custom

much work, very passionate.

yep, but the sense of achievement is awesome

hehehe that's cute.

thanks :)he's much nicer now

with normals and colors

at 400fps :D

woo ha, 400 FPS?! My eyes, burn. too many frame for my eyes to capture all.

that GIF is only at 10fps iirc

LOLs, it gets slower with more geometry very quick

I'm probbaly doing render very inefficiently. should batch VBOs or something

hmmm I haven't done any animation. So I can't really add much. :P

me neither, but I'm sure in another month I'll be more confident )

So, what do you do?

you are doing it in Maya? I am working on school project, me college student. We want to make procedurally generated story driven game; making web based text adventure.

We want it to expand as the player progresses, like Minecraft(if the game fits as an example, I haven't played it much), it expands as the player throws more input. I am going through our code and fixing bugs and commenting stuff.

I use Lightwave 3D for modelling and rigging

procedural text adventure? hows that possible? )

it's... very very odd. Took our leader some time to explain it to us all. It provides basic information about the player, "player you are in a room and there's a chair and desk" then player might type something like "sit on chair" "smash desk" then we take "things" mentioned in the sentence then provide more details.

so desk was more of an abstract class without player interaction, but as soon as the player interacts with it, then we give it definitions. desk -> metal desk with five drawers and pencil on it

that's very unusual

in this example, how do you choose table's material?

mostly random out of given materials that fits the minimal description of desk (so desk has "hard" adjective in the material section, so it picks some random "hard" material, so you can't have "air desk" or "dirt desk" )

oh (

diamond desk would be nice

lel

good day

hey

gud day.

whatsup?

this is phishing

link.email.riotgames.com/t.d?W4Gt6wiIwGSqwF=https://…

they are tryin to put their hands on my lol account

no idea

hmmm maybe is some policy violation to post link to a phishing site?

@BlueBug Sounds like something you should be able to program rather quickly in Inform7. Give objects a property declaring if it is virtual or concrete (Inform7 code: "A thing is either concrete or virtual. A thing is usually virtual.") and then pick stuff out of random tables or whatever whenever the player does anything to a virtual thing (Inform7 code: "Instead of examining a virtual thing .." or "Before examining a virtual thing, ..." or modify the rulebook directly for even more precision).

hello guys

Hi.

does anyone understand monogame or xna? and oriented bounding boxes?

I'm having this weird bug, but cant really find out what is wrong, its mostly a transformation bug i'm sure

Never done anything with the former (and not much with C# in Unity either), sorry.

its ok, thanks anyway

yo

what bug is that?

imgur.com/QOsIbj7 might aswell just ost the bug

that one :P

lol

what the fuk was that?

:)

yellow, bounding box

what should be the correct behavior?

and a textured transforming quad

the box surrounding the quad

gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/71357/… better explained here

and the Absolute position values in the transformation are right, I dont understand why the z coordinate gets messed up

so apparently the box does not follow the quad on the z axis

yeap

enven with the right values

verrrrryyyy strange

I can't see where you tell to move on the z axis accordingly to the quad

you apply transforms to the vertices based on width and height of the quad, hmm

using a tweening engine, i tween my floats, and save them in this node class, that gives access to all the values, new Vector3(Node.AbsolutePosition.X, Node.AbsolutePosition.Y * -1, Node.AbsolutePosition.Z)*Node.Scale gives me translation

with z included

I basicaly maintain the quad in model space all the time, and just move it to world at draw time

@MartinSojka they even have tutorials on what we are already trying to build; "room demo" nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnno. OTL now I see no meaning in this work; it is a lesser version of duplicate of already existing sophisticated polished thing. collapses on the ground but... thank you. This will be very helpful.

@BlueBug No work is meaningless if you learn from it.

dat's very true. Learning counts.

ba dum tschhh

tangiersgame.com

oh man, another indie title that tries to be a painting

it hurts me to see how much effort and money goes into shit like this

instead of making a proper fucking stealth game in which you can actually tell what happens and when

bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom bloom

what's wrong with title like this?

never tried, but the idea isnt hurting me

i think it's over the top, but there is nothing wrong with it

if someone has a painting style suitable for a stealth game, why not?

it's yet another indie title not being an alternative to any AAA title, instead trying to look like it was made by Michelangelo

what the indie world needs is more alternative to AAA titles

like how the dark mod is an alternative to thief 4

because if indies are going to continue making fucking paintings

and AAAs will be full of microtransactions

excuse me what is aaa title?

there ain't gonna be any more normal games