Game Development

Lukas Knuth

9:03 PM

@JoshPetrie what are you using? If I understand correctly, XNA is retired and Unity3D is preferred now?

Shotgun Ninja

howdy

user4704

@LukasKnuth Oh, I use the XDK.

Evan

Xbox, stop being a pain

user4704

XNA isn't and will not be useable on the X1. To use Unity, you need access to the XDK.

user4704

So you are going to need to be a registered developer or part of the ID@X1 program.

Lukas Knuth

9:06 PM

And the XDK is XNAv2?

user4704

No.

user4704

The XDK is the development kit that registered developers get access to.

Noctrine

The ID program is confusing :( I was given a "Not Yet" and I still get emails as if I am a licensed developer.

Lukas Knuth

Thats a hardware thing, right?

user4704

@LukasKnuth No, the XDK is a software development kit.

user4704

9:07 PM

Being a registered developer involves applying and being granted the registration (this typically requires a business entity, office, and prior shipped title experience).

user4704

Actually getting the X1 hardware is a separate expense entirely.

Lukas Knuth

how would you advise if I haven't done anything yet?

user4704

Don't bother.

Lukas Knuth

Do you happen to know if XNA games a portable to X1?

user4704

They aren't.

Lukas Knuth

9:09 PM

I read somewhere that Microsoft is teaming up with Unity and that it's the preferred toolset now. Is that anywhere near the truth?

user4704

The first part is true.

Lukas Knuth

Also I read something about free Unity licenses once you're in the program

user4704

The second part is not.

Noctrine

They are pushing Unity for the Indie set.

user4704

I think you can get a Unity license if you are accepted into the ID@ program.

user4704

9:10 PM

(which is for hobby developers / indie developers)

user4704

But the program is new and priority is given to those with proven shipping experience.

user4704

Your best bet is to work on something that is either:

user4704

1) native (C++) for Windows (because the X1 is basically a Windows PC) or

user4704

2) uses Unity

user4704

At least in terms of trying to future-proof yourself.

Noctrine

9:11 PM

Only use Unity 4.3 though.

The X1-only Unity license is based on 4.3

Lukas Knuth

If I want to ship/release on multiple platforms (including x360 and *nix) I would be better off with unity i guess

Alex M.

> Is Everyone Better Than You? Good!
Legendary jazz guitarist Pat Methany offers this advice: “Always
be the worst guy in every band you’re in. If you’re the best guy
there, you need to be in a different band. And I think that works
for almost everything that’s out there as well.”
Why is that? If you’re the best on the team, you have little incentive to continue to invest in yourself. But if everyone
around you is better than you are, you’ll be keenly motivated
to catch up. You’ll be on top of your game.

from the same book I posted above

dunno why, but this never worked for me

I'd always feel best as the best in a team and working hard to secure my position further

Noctrine

I like being the middle guy these days. I need people better than me to keep guiding me, but I also need to experience of teaching new guys so that I can get up to the better guys position.

Lukas Knuth

@JoshPetrie thanks for the advice

Noctrine

At least in the company structure. For a team structure I want everyone to be awesome, that way I am pressured to remain awesome so as not to fall behind.

Alex M.

9:14 PM

guess I'm just weird that way lol

works well with my usual paranoia

I'm paranoid that someone in the team might catch up with me

so I work harder

Noctrine

But even then, your only still within your same pond.

I like having the Josh's of the world above me, so I feel the drive to surpass them.

Alex M.

I don't depend on my team to branch out to other stuff though

I guess having someone to surpass is a good way to get up there

then again, in my attempt to not let anyone surpass me I also advance quite steadily

it's just that I don't know if I surpass anyone and if I do when I do it

I wonder how expensive HDDs are nowadays

... not very

Noctrine

They are super cheap

Alex M.

they used to be expensive after that flooding thing in india or whatever

I have a faulty 500GB HDD right now, and Windows constantly needs to chkdsk it because things get messed up (several weeks ago critical files got corrupted and I was unable to even repair it)

I'm going to get an SSD and stick Debian on it; I still want to run Windows on an HDD for games and stuff

but seeing as I can't rely on my current HDD, I should just buy a new one

Pip

Debian <3

I turned my old laptop into a Debian machine when I got my new Win8 machine

Alex M.

9:32 PM

I got an upvote on SO

NOOOOOOO DAMNIT

I'm trying to get SO down in my top sites by activity list

user4704

Allegedly they are going to provide support for sorting / hiding the sites in the site nav at some point.

Almo

you can do that already, I thought

Alex M.

> If some team members balk at coming to the lunch, bribe them
with pizza.

Almo

I got a SE news item about it

Alex M.

^ same book, referring to a lunch where you discuss new tech and how you could use it within the tema

now that the author mentions that

I would certainly join anything in the company for pizza

user4704

9:35 PM

@Almo Oh? How?

user4704

Oh!

user4704

There's an "edit" link now.

Almo

yeah

:D

Alex M.

@JoshPetrie talking about the one in the profile

okay

user4704

Oh, well.

Alex M.

9:36 PM

WHO THE FUCK UPVOTED ME ON SO

I know it was someone from here

user4704

You could just disassociate the account or tank it.

Alex M.

I don't know who you are.

But I will find you, and I will kill you.

@JoshPetrie how :O

I'm not sure that would be the same effect

I'd rather just beat up my SO rep with rep on other sites

user4704

Either ask a staff person to do it, or post a bunch of crap on SO that gets you downvoted and suspended :D

Alex M.

lol

Byte56

Maybe try talking in their chat for a while.

Alex M.

9:39 PM

yeah I wouldn't kill my SO account, I sometimes go to lounge cpp

though I think I can do that with this account too

still, beating SO with rep is like a better way to say "fuck you"

btw, to whoever upvoted me on so

I love how you voted two very low quality answers instead of some of my better answers ;)

it sure is in the spirit of SO

thank you

that is better

skiwi

seems legit. gfycat.com/TastyLateAmurstarfish

Pip

yep

it does

Almo

23

Q: Is "legit" a legitimate word?

Is legit an actual word, or is it a slang word that has been shortened from legitimate?

check my comment on the top answer

Alex M.

lol ok guys you can stop upvoting now

Pip

?

anyhow: progress on Cookie Clicker

progress :D

Almo

9:51 PM

but it says cookies per second 0

Pip

yeah

Almo

and you're clearly getting more than that!

Pip

I was clicking

the clicking does not contribute to that

play the game, man :P

orteil.dashnet.org/cookieclicker/beta

that is my current setup

wow, two stars in a row :D

noice

anyhow

anyone want to test this for me?

lol

ToddersLegrande

Wooo! I love going in early so I can be home early and free to do whatever I want :D

Pip

noice

Want to beta test Cookie Clicker (my version)?

Image above

ToddersLegrande

10:00 PM

Not at all lol

:P

Pip

aww :(

ToddersLegrande

Not my kind of game I'm afraid. Sorry :(

Noctrine

*

ToddersLegrande

**

Pip

***

you want to try Noc?

I just want to see the fps amount on a different computer

Noctrine

10:02 PM

It doesn't look very original

Pip

github.com/TheProgramm3r/CookieClicker/commit/… if anyone is interested

it isn't

Just practice, unless the guy (Ortiel) decides that I can put it on the app store

It uses Kivy, so will run on iOS, Android, Windows 7+8, Mac, and most *nix's

hasherr

10:20 PM

Hello GD

Pip

hey hashbrown

hasherr

@Pip Lol, why are you making cookie clicker?

Pip

because I can

:D

I was bored, and it's just for fun atm

ToddersLegrande

Apparently the US is suing ITT Tech over student loans.. wonder what that means for me...

Shotgun Ninja

lol

screw ITT Tech

Evan

10:22 PM

That's interesting

Pip

Yeah

it is

ToddersLegrande

Well I attended during the years that seem to get mentioned. Graduated in 2011 and am paying my loans off though not quickly.

Shotgun Ninja

ITT Technical Institute

ITT Technical Institute (often shortened to ITT Tech or ITTTI) is a for-profit technical institute with over 130 campuses in 38 states of the United States. ITT Tech is owned and operated by ITT Educational Services, Inc. (), a publicly traded company headquartered in Carmel, Indiana. ITT Educational Services, Inc. (ESI) was spun off by ITT Corporation through an initial public offering (IPO) in 1994, with parent company ITT as an 83% shareholder. ITT Tech licenses the "ITT" name from ITT Corporation, which originates from the latter company's original name "International Telephone & Tel...

They have a history.

Pip

lol

Shotgun Ninja

The most recent one before this suit was in 2011, by my very own WTMJ news station out of Milwaukee.

ToddersLegrande

10:24 PM

Honestly the instructors at the Green Bay campus for the Programming degrees were quite good. The education wasn't bad for those of us who actually had a chance but yes terribly expensive.

But its also worth noting that there were people who should not have been in the programs pushed through for all four years

Those are the people who are going to suffer because of ITT's ways :(

Pip

:(

M Davies

Boom!

Pip

I gotta go.... see you tomorrow, all!

Noctrine

What's this? Microsoft is gonna start giving away Windows for free?

wired.com/business/2014/03/microsoft-turns-into-google

ToddersLegrande

I will be keeping my eye on this

Reading the comments on the article depresses me

All I see is a bunch of people who never tried Win8 complaining about it :(

I really wish people would actually give things a go and develop their own opinion

Noctrine

10:42 PM

I tried it, I disliked it, but I recognize that at some point I'll have to use it.

8.1 is supposedly better :\ - Need it for Project Spark :p

ToddersLegrande

8.1 is the same thing with a boot to desktop option and a start button... obviously there are a few more tweaks but those are the things that get all the praise

I don't understand the praise 8.1 gets honestly

user4704

I quite like 8 on a tablet device, but really don't on a desktop.

user4704

I think the "one OS everywhere" strategy is flawed, at least as an end-user technique.

ToddersLegrande

Yeah the current implementation definitely isn't perfect

user4704

Certainly it's good to shared as much as possible under the hood, and I think it could be done and just have the "modern" UX on the top for mobile platforms and the old desktop stuff for PCs.

user4704

10:48 PM

But probably some combination of ship schedule, politics, and general stupidity and cluelessness on the part of management resulted in the mess we have now.

ToddersLegrande

Well thats just the thing. Other than to search for an app or setting I never leave "the old desktop stuff"

And in my experience the metro screen is faster than the old start menu

user4704

Yeah. I spend all the time in desktop mode on a PC, and hate having to drop into "modern" mode (except to search / launch an app, that's fine)

ToddersLegrande

I'm sure they could have made a faster performing start menu in the same style as all past versions... but I don't see much of a point

user4704

On tablets its the opposite.

Evan

I've been really impressed with the windows 8 os on my phone

ToddersLegrande

10:50 PM

I actually do like the docking of metro apps. Usually just my music player

If I actually used Twitter I'd probably dock that...

The chromeless docking is much more appealing than a skinny window

user4704

The live tiles thing is really useful and I wish Apple would do a thing like it soon.

ToddersLegrande

Every time I touch an iPad for work or something I feel absolutely stupid. It could be lack of experience but I found learning Windows 8 RT much easier than and more user friendly than using an iPad

But I also can't work a Mac so who knows :)

My WP8 is so usuable out of the box I have basically zero apps

user4704

I think all the articles about "using iPads for work" serve mainly to illustrate that they aren't good for large swaths of work.

user4704

If they were we wouldn't be talking about it.

user4704

(Certainly they can be, and I love using mine for a lot of things, but I rarely do much in the way of "work" on it.)

ToddersLegrande

10:54 PM

Haha. Well when I say I was using an iPad for work, I was trying to get some screen shots of a mobile app for one of the MS platforms I work on. I wasn't actually using an iPad in attempt to be productive or anything.

user4704

I hate that filesystem in C++ overloads / for path concatenation :(

user4704

11:21 PM

I also hate the VS 2013's C++ auto-formatter's "binary operator" detection is broken as hell.

Evan

hmm, cant say I've had much exposure to 2013 yet

Icy Defiance

I have 2013, but I don't use C++ if I can help it. For C# it's great, no complaints.

TorbenC

11:42 PM

Anyone here familiar with entity component systems?

Evan

Hmm, that's a pretty generic topic

So, yes

by generic

i meant general

my bad

TorbenC

I know, but it is implemented in many ways. I am currently trying to figure out how I can implement it in a way which keeps the entities themselves as GUIDs.

So I don't really need a class containing a list of components.

I've read a decent article, I'll see if I can find it again if you need it, but it did not go into enough detail about implementation, only theory.

Evan

That's because implementation is pretty context sensitive

TorbenC

Here it is:

t-machine.org/index.php/2007/09/03/…

It definitely is...

The primary issue I'm having is with the systems though.

How am I supposed to run systems on certain entities that have these components without a list of components stored in each entity, do I have to have a list of entities stored in each system?

user4704

Put the components in the "system" they belong to.

user4704

11:47 PM

So for example, you have a "system" that deals with physics.

user4704

That system may expose, for example, RigidBodyComponent objects.

user4704

The physics system has a List<RigidBodyComponent>.

TorbenC

But how would an entity be used in that case?

user4704

Either an entity is a List<Guid>, or an entity is a GUID.

user4704

And the components themselves store a GUID called "entityGuid" or something.

user4704

11:49 PM

(or maybe you don't even need an entity representation at all)

TorbenC

If the entity is a GUID, would it mean that there would need to be an entity ID stored in each component?

Evan

Certainly facilitates data driven design

TorbenC

I see

Evan

data oriented that is

user4704

@TorbenC Yea, that's what I said.

user4704

11:50 PM

(fwiw, I don't think the T-Machine articles are particularly good)

user4704

They are long, but light on actual concrete information, and they ramble and weave.

TorbenC

Or would it be better if there is another place in memory that maps all of the components to entities separately? Because the idea is that components are supposed to (in this implementation) be purely the data needed by the system.

user4704

Better is subjective. Is that what you need?

TorbenC

Oh I don't think they are that good either, but this is all I have found on this implementation and it is the one I want to go with :)

I'm not sure if it is what I need, I am trying to implement this for education, future projects too but currently just to learn it.

I guess it makes sense to have them all contain an entity ID in them.

Evan

The theory behind this architecture choice is good to understand

Knowing why this would be a better choice than the more common object oriented approach

user4704

11:53 PM

It's dangerous to implement these sort of things without requirements, because there are many ways to do them, all of which have tradeoffs.

Evan

And even if it would

it may be worse

TorbenC

Josh: I do have a planned game in the future I will be using and entity system with, but I definitely want to experiment with it before coding it into a real project.

Evan: Definitely.

How would I handle a situation where two systems need to run on and altar the same component in an entity, but at the same time they both need to run on the original version of the data (if one changes it, it should not effect the other system until next tick)?

Icy Defiance

going off memory here, since I haven't worked on that project for a couple months, but my implementation has an engine, which contains a List<System> and a Dictionary<string, object>. the dictionary is your "entities". the constructor of most of the systems requires a reference to that dictionary so it can search for and cache the entities it needs to work with. oh, and the engine also has a Dictionary<string, bool> for flags.

I'm not recommending this, even though it works perfectly so far. Instead I'm asking, because I just made this up based on the little reading I did, is this even rem…

user4704

@TorbenC Give me a concrete example.

user4704

Because in the general approach you've described so far, that doesn't happen.

user4704

11:57 PM

(A component is owned by one system and only one system.)

TorbenC

System one reads var 1 and var 2 in component A, then altars var 2.
System two reads var 1 and var 2 in component A, then altars var 1.

user4704

And the existing of such a need means you broke your design.

TorbenC

An entity owns a component though

user4704

Systems should rarely be concerned about component types outside their own domain, regardless of who owns them.

user4704

That indicates a dependency that you probably do not want.

TorbenC

11:58 PM

An entity could have a position component, for X and Y positions. Multiple systems will need that data, collision, rendering, etc.

user4704

Position is a bad example.

user4704

Often it is special-cased.

user4704

(as in, stored in the entity)

user4704

I personally think that's a bad idea, and so is sharing it.

user4704

I duplicate it.

user4704

11:59 PM

It's occasionally useful for render and physics to have different position data just like it is usually useful for them to have different geometry.

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