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3:58 AM
@mootinator chicken and egg problem. Notice that the last couple of messages discussed why the feeds were in there in the first place. If I did not put in the feeds this discussion would not exist. Thus I made you all talk. Boom. QED.
@mootinator There are only 23 meta questions. Quoting what Jeff Atwood says over a year ago doesn't really apply for a low traffic site with a low quantity of questions. Also the feed pushes the recent set of items in one go when it is initially added.
But the main point is I made you talk which is all that matters so it doesn't make sense to get yourself in a pickle about this.
In other news
I don't think Daniel Craig will be able to pull off this character.
 
4:24 AM
@phwd I've just yet to see a room where feeds drive much discussion. Just my experience though. I'm not everywhere.
Also the quote was specifically referring to a low traffic site with a low quantity of questions.
The message immediately following the one I linked was this:
in The Overlook Hotel, Jan 4 at 23:36, by Jeff Atwood
particularly on a low volume room
And I'm not in a pickle I'm just stating my opinion :)
 
The feed there is from the main site which is higher in traffic that this site's meta.
 
Although I've probably been trollier than usual this past week indirectly because of health issues :/
@phwd Fair enough.
 
@mootinator Not a problem.
 
So if I waffle an answer, then find an actual useful one.
1) Post second answer.
2) Add to original answer.
3) Delete the stupid answer and post as only answer.
 
?
waffle an answer?
Hey @JosephH
 
4:40 AM
Well, I answered this question because it was annoying me (remember, unnecessarily crabby this week)
2
A: In Back to the Future, why don't Marty's parents ever mention how similar he looks to the Marty of 1955

mootinatorUpdate: I've Found a definitive answer to one part of this question: Is it likely that the producers simply overlooked this? No. It was definitely intentionally removed from the original draft Here's the ending of the movie from that draft: INSERT – CLIPPING A story with the headlin...

Then actually found a useful reference.
I kinda mashed both of them in there.
I'm not sure I like that.
 
Nothing is wrong with adding a second answer
 
5:02 AM
Indeed.
 
5:15 AM
The [plot-holes] tag seems like it's totally redundant on this site or if it's on a question, just a set up for that as the answer
 
You clean them up?
Or meaning the meta tag?
It does seem like more of an answer than a tag.
 
And a flippant answer at that. "Oh, that's just a plot hole. The writers didn't catch it before putting to print."
 
same or different?
 
That's totally the same tag with different letters
 
It doesn't seem to be used in a bad way WRT to the Star-Wars alterations.
 
5:21 AM
Every new rerelease of Star Wars creates its own new timeline
 
Although I'd argue there's probably a more suitable tag out there somewhere.
Like or something.
 
From peeking at the questions so far, and might end up being the biggest tags on this site
 
Which question has the tag ?
 
There's just at the moment. That being my fault.
 
Forget the plural mistake, it's the one
 
5:26 AM
Ah.
 
But it's still the same problem of being a signal of a weak question. Or at least it doesn't need to be a tag
 
And should be a synonym.
 
What's the audience of this site again? Viewers, students, auteurs?
 
If they exist at all.
 
No idea.
 
5:29 AM
Yeah, I was initially wondering if I should harass a director to get involved =)
 
Mehper proposed it and I haven't really seen him around.
 
It would be nice if it was more format oriented (just imho), but it seems to be very story oriented at the moment.
 
Format as in cutting up celluloid and the production of? Like how to get a dolly to move around a track and not have it visible in a single-tracking shot?
 
Sure, to some extent.
 
5:33 AM
@random heh
@random Then they should have called this something else
 
43
Film Making

Proposed Q&A site for writers, Directors -- Movie Makers!

Currently in definition.

 
Understanding Plot Holes 101?
 
@random and identifying movies
 
@phwd That would be the master class with a sub-minor in telepathy
 
I guess it's not the identifying movies I'm wary of, it's the meandering way the community is sort of producing either genre or format specific sites which basically cover the same thing.
 
5:36 AM
> Identify Movie with Giant Egg/Sphere
 
literature, sci-fi, television, and so on.
 
Trying to search area 51 discussion to see if anyone said anything there
 
So if this site is "for film aficionados" would the "expert level users" be professional movie reviewers?
 
11
Q: What problem does Movies solve and who will be the experts?

Ivo FlipseProposal: Movies I'm not saying this proposal should be shut down, I'm just wondering what the purpose of this proposal is. Perhaps I'm just missing something. When looking at the exemplary questions: How does the MPAA rate movies? --> regulations/laws How does 3D work? --> technical questio...

But then Robert says in another question
> The Movies proposal is largely an end user enthusiasts site,
1
Q: Questions about how a scene/shot was done

DForck42Proposal: Movies Would questions asking how a scene was shot be on-topic? For example: Q: How was the scene from Inception where the two guys were fighting in the hotel hallway with the shifting gravity shot? A: It was shot by using a prop room that could be moved/rotated and the actor...

 
"Does anyone have any good Netflix suggestions for a Quirky Romantic Comedy With a Strong Female Lead?"
hides
 
5:49 AM
Is that for or for ?
 
Anyhow, g2g apparently I need sleep or something.
 
> Maybe a "spoiler" tag can save the day? – Mehper C. Palavuzlar
(facepalm)
 
Save the day from what? Mediocrity?
 
6:07 AM
I don't even know
@random for this site to survive what do you think it should be about?
 
 
14 hours later…
7:45 PM
@phwd The original was already a top-notch movie, so what's there to improve?
 
Nothing. Americans just want everything remade. :S
 
Norwegian (or was it Swedish?) looks so much like Dutch, that while reading the subtitles, it was almost like I understood what they were talking about
 
Yeah which is why I approve of subtitles over dubbed movies anyday
 
@phwd Definitely, though I can understand that Americans wouldn't want to watch Scandinavian movies
I don't particularly like Chinese/Japanese or Spanish movies, it often feels awkward
but living on a rather diverse continent (compared to the US) I've learned to dread dubbing
I mean translating "Shit happens" to "Scheisse passiert" deserves the death penalty
 
Heh
 
8:07 PM
> I think we certainly have to allow those kind of questions. When we move out of beta, and the site will be open for everyone and not just the experts, it will be an important feature (ask the experts, if you can't find it out yourself). This is a Q & A site, and I don't see a reason why Identify This Movie Questions should be disallowed.
I hate the excuse of having certain questions around because they draw a crowd. We all know what a mess those bike-shed questions are on SO
 
They will fall. Just give it time
If the users don't understand that this site is not another chit chat forum then this site will fail.
 
@phwd Someone looking into the further reading or interpretation of a film. Or better understanding of things like mise-en-scène and other techniques.
11
A: Exclude Community Wiki questions from the 'hot questions' list

NegrinoLet me just say this: I am a honest-to-goodness Mac expert. See my bio for details. Yet I often find the quality of the questions on Ask Different to be lacking. I often think that the moderators on the site should take a stronger hand in closing silly questions, and I personally find the communi...

 
I don't get how this site got out of Area 51 if all the top questions were so weak.
 
That AskDifferent user sums it up. When your site has junk on the front or floating around, it sinks the whole level of the site into the dreggs
 
Hmmm ... guess I will try to kick some dirt up later to see if users will notice
 
8:14 PM
Feels like a few sites have tried their time in beta despite the awful sample questions from Area 51
 
8:35 PM
Its exactly why I raised it on Discuss, but to no avail
so now it'll have to be solved on meta.movies instead
 
It's mainly Robert in meta.movies no one is really solving anything in there
> The vast majority of questions on this site are trivia to someone. In fact, one could say the entire topic of this site is trivia.
what.what.
Better ask for this site to be closed.
For such a huge scope though you would expect the questions to be pouring in
 
How many in the private beta right now?
 
75 questions
around 110 users
about 30 really active
 
We'll see how the horror goes when it/if it goes public beta
 
8:52 PM
@phwd So what would be needed to 'solve' this?
Do we need some clear 'guidelines' that help the users judge whether something is on/off-topic?
 
Robert gave the guidelines. I guess the users just are not looking at meta.
 
If they're not looking at meta, they don't care about the site really
 
I mean he could step in and start closing questions but this should be a community decision
@random correct
 
If there are pro tems they'll have an easy time looking for things to close
The reasons they pick might be the tricky part
 
Meh, just let them close any which way then wait for the users to pour into meta with complaints. Solve the scope there.
 
8:56 PM
@random That's my point, what rules/guidelines/reasons would we need to make sure its very clear to anyone who cares (as in read FAQ/Meta) that which questions are allowed and which aren't
 
Well for one the term movie trivia needs to be redefined
3
Q: In the movie "The Social Network" - which class is Mark sitting in when he falls asleep?

hawkeyeIn the movie "The Social Network" - which class is Mark sitting in when he falls asleep? He then wakes up and answers the question. I think it might be Computer Architecture.

Trivia.
4
A: What type of hand gun was Marvin supposed to have?

AlonzoIt's a 5" barreled Smith & Wesson Model 460V The full list can be found at http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Red_(2010)

Trivia.
 
If the question sounds like it's from bar trivia, then it's trivia
@phwd Analysis version: "Does Mark falling asleep in Chemistry 101 funnel into the narrative of his Asperger's and introvert outcast nature as someone who's a total jerk with no social chemistry?"
 
@random I'll keep that saved
 
@phwd Analysis version: "Marvin's switch of guns between the bar scene and the killing of the informant is indicative of his loss of sense of self with understanding what the role of his killing has done. Is this switch the first sign where his character takes a path that he cannot undo?"
If trivia is bad, will making this site into something like "Critical Film Studies: Understanding Narrative Techniques and the Exploration of Character" shoo away people who just want to sit down and be the best pub trivia expert? Is that a good thing or bad?
 
9:14 PM
@random Good thing, but obviously those shooed away will disagree
 
I think it's a good thing. There are already tons of forums out there for the best trivia expert.
 
I think scifi is a decent example of what kind of questions they should be striving for
 
Way back watching Dead Poet's Society the teacher explained the authority and rule of hand represented in a scene when one of the kid's father woke up out of bed and put on his slippers. That was deep and really furthered the whole appreciation of that movie among other techniques pointed out.
 
Which reminds me to go watch that movie
Though I feel like I can't appreciate the point you make without having seen that scene myself
 
What do you think about this question?
14
Q: Why isn't Bruce Willis's character in the Sixth Sense self-aware?

LaurenThat's a vague title, but I couldn't think of another way to make it not a spoiler. What I really want to know is

 
9:24 PM
Seems okay if you ignore the quote from the movie explaining why Dr Crowe is like that, thus taking away the question
Five years should be the statute of the need for spoilers. If you haven't seen the film by then, you're not really going to get it out of your Netflix queue anytime soon
 
Yeah I was thinking more about in terms of spoilers
 
9:51 PM
Released in 1999. Yeah, if you haven't seen it by now, you already know the ending
 
@random Still not seeing the scene where everyone says Mark falls asleep in class
 
Haven't even watched that film. Don't spoil how it ends. Did he end up making The Facebook?
 
@random I just went through the script (faster than watching the movie again) the scene isn't there.
 
10:06 PM
Perhaps random's description wasn't helpful, but he does fall asleep in class AFAIK
 
Right before this Ed and Mark were talking about chickens or something
 
@IvoFlipse what, identification and trivia?
 
Viewing order of the Star Wars saga surely
 
@random oh, right, I forgot about those. I wanted to sneak them out while revamping the SFF FAQ, but I never got around to doing the revamp
SFF doesn't allow recommendations, except viewing order recommendations, which is rather silly
Viewing order is the pretext for “I just want to chat about this series but I have no question about it”
 
@Gilles That's exactly how I feel about [identify-this-X], they just want to chat about it, not about what it is
 
10:23 PM
@IvoFlipse this is ridiculous. [identify-this-X] is a question based on an actual problem faced by the asker (to paraphrase the FAQ)
 
If there is a great level of detail in the it might work
 
@phwd Why would movie identification work less well than story identification?
 
@Gilles rephrase?
 
@phwd oops
 
Currently going through the story identification list. It seems to be working. I don't think I was comparing to story identification though
For example
-1
Q: Name that fantasy novel - 2 girls possibly sisters one blonde & one redhead, novel series, 1 lead male character

Marilyn PereiraI'm trying to figure out the name of this fantasy novel series I read back somewhere between 2000-2002. All I can remember is that it was definitely a series. It had two girls and although I'm not sure, I think they were sisters. One was a redhead and the other a blonde, and I'm pretty sure the r...

why isn't this closed as NARQ?
Or this one?
0
Q: Trying to remember title of book with "border station" in hyperspace

ErrrrThis is very vague but the book had some sort of station in a surreal universe that I think spaceships had to pass through in "hyperspace" between stars. I think it might have been part of a series but I can't remember anything other than the surreal nature of the universe and the fact that there...

 
10:37 PM
@phwd because we tend to ask for more details at first, and close only if the details aren't forthcoming
and sometimes people find answers even with very little information
 
It's like we are giving an exception card to the narq option to questions which literally leave the user guessing the answer.
What's in my hand? It's red and shiny
 
They're both closed now, thanks for spotting them
 
@Gilles bah now my point doesn't hold :(
 
Not getting answers is not a reason to close identification questions. But lacking details is.
We prefer not to do the close-and-reopen dance 1) because we don't have much traffic so it's not a big deal to come back later and 2) because it's common that people ask questions in comments and these prod the asker's memory
 
Do you see it as one of your most used tags?
Never mind that.
It is your most used tag.
 
10:54 PM
@phwd yes, that's unsurprising since most other tags are about a specific work or franchise, and there's a lot of fragmentation in those
We have a >50% accepted answer rate, which is pretty good considering the overall dearth of experts
 
But is it really the experts who are answering these identify questions or those who remember?
 
@phwd I don't understand the question
 
In terms of movies for example, say I watch a lot of movies and I have a good memory.... am I an expert at movies?
 
@phwd more so than someone who doesn't watch a lot of movies
Sure, you could know about movies in the abstract and not have seen many, but that would be a strange edge case
Most experts about X have seen a lot of X
 
Fair enough, I guess I will wait and see how this unfolds.
 
11:13 PM
@phwd Have you read the debate on SFF?
I recommend it over Jeff and Ivo's uninformed rants
 
So we have two things (at least to me), 1) traffic 2) good questions
In your answer you keep talking about traffic
> We answer people who can't be bothered to read the first Google hit, why not answer people who have the normal human trait of an imperfect memory and can't get an answer to their question without human assistance?
Doesn't seem like a valid reason "If joey has it why can't I too?"
Every question asked has an answer.
That doesn't mean every question belongs on SE
 
@phwd Identification questions have a unique answer and are based on an actual problem faced by the asker. Which makes them ideal examples, according to the FAQ, blogs, etc.
So if you want to forbid them, the onus is on you to find a good argument against them
The only reasonable argument I've seen is that they bore the experts and drive them away.
This argument would be a good one if it was true. In fact, it is false: identification questions attract experts.
 
@Gilles I'm not very good with Sci-fi knowledge could you name some of these experts?
 
@phwd see what I wrote about rec.arts.sf.written
 
11:27 PM
It's a newsgroup. I used to lurk there (never posted AFAIR).
 
Well you see I think it works great there because no one is penalized for shooting in the dark and derailing from the topic a bit
 
@phwd ???
 
For example when I searched for why Skeeter wasn't a muppet I ended up in 10 pages of discussion
I learned a lot there, but if the same format where used in SE it would be shut down as too chatty.
 
@phwd er, yes, that's to be expected on a newsgroup, but what does this have to do with identification questions?
 
Well I asked you about experts in sci-fi that are attracted in identification questions
You replied with a user group
I replied saying the user group works because there is discussion actual chit chat
From the top hit
You have users talking instead if saying "+1" or voting.
 
11:36 PM
@phwd YASIDs aren't particularly prone to generating chitchat, at least not in the initial replies
Sometimes the first messages in the thread are requests for additional details
These work better in the Q&A format, because of the comment/answer separation
 
Aye, though in SE you are not notified of comments outside of the site.
Here I am in socket.IO group. I am notified of changes via email
You don't get that in SE
 
@phwd aren't you? Only of answers?
 
@Gilles only answers
 
The forthcoming 2.0 API will solve that (I think)
 
So 10 people could have commented and the OP would not have known.
Are we not in 2.0 already?
I think I saw a draft for 3.0 somewhere
 
11:42 PM
@phwd no, 1.1
@phwd no, 2.0
the private beta for 2.0 is starting about now
1.0 is public stuff only
2.0 is read-only with authentication
3.0 will have write access
With auth, it should be possible to have an inbox feed to RSS or mail or whatever
 
Well the point I am getting at is users love talking
 
and?
 
We don't really allow that other than for clarification of the question
And who knows maybe extended discussion is what brings about the answer to those yasid questions?
 
@phwd Yes, and for identification questions this is exactly right: we avoid the chewing of the rag that can sometimes happen, so the answer is right there and visible
@phwd No. There are plenty of opportunities for extended discussions, such as someone posting a review, or just asking “what did you think of this book?”
On rasfw there's a bit of a competition as to who answers the most yasids, as well as a collective competition to answer them as fast as possible
which on SE translates very well to reputation for the answerers BTW
 
Oh
I didn't know that
 
11:49 PM
search for “YASID monthly stats” or some such
 
Hmm okay I see some now
If for anything I would want to keep movie identification open just to see the stats.
I didn't know they took identifications so seriously
You know what... I am going to try one >.<
 

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