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13:00
I think improving chat including flags isn't very high priority for SE, which is a bit of a shame
Holy mother of flags!, how much I missed?
@Lamak we had a busy evening :)
welcome back @AaronBertrand
@Lamak yeah you missed a lot
@AaronBertrand I have seen flags from random chat rooms many times
@bluefeet just lost 45 minutes reading the transcript
but I still missed all the fun since it's full of removed comments
13:05
@Lamak yeah I walked away yesterday afternoon and came back to 300 new items in chat
and I wanted to join the flag social experiment
I cannot stand this statement in answers This is not tested, so it may have syntax errors.
0
A: Selecting only those numbers that are in array AND not in a table

Gordon LinoffIf you know the values are from 1 to 100, then you can do this: select n.num from (select d1.d*10 + d2.d as n from (select 0 as d union all select 1 union all select 2 union all select 3 union all select 4 union all select 5 union all select 6 union all select 7 union all selec...

Please test it first!
@bluefeet In ancient times, when there was no sqlfiddle, I occasionally left a "I'm not on a computer now, but it should work".
Though it was just a few times
@bluefeet Well, sometimes we build the response in our head, without a tool at hand. Maybe it's not the best way to answer a strict SQL question, but for the others it works.
and there was no sqlfiddle
@Marian now there is sqlfiddle dude
@Marian the problem is when that comment is the norm
13:17
@Lamak yeah, i know, but not sure if it's accessible from a tablet or something
Aaron I know answers a lot from his tablet/phone, not sure how Management Studio or Fiddle look there..
and he answers a lot of questions, one after the other, so I'm guessing that @bluefeet's issue with that is that he obviously doesn't test his answers so he can move to the other question an answer it faster
Just a thought, anyway :). Should be nice to get a piece of code that's parsing and executing well, but the answer is still useful to point an idea (even if it's missing a parenthesis).
13:40
> Oracle Database Express Edition 11g Release 2 for Windows x32
- Unzip the download and run the DISK1/setup.exe
- Does not work in Windows x64
Is that really true that it doesn't work in Windows x64?
has anybody tried it?
1
A: Oracle 11g Express Edition for Windows 64bit?

KMWSome of more advanced Oracle database features such as session trace do not work properly in Oracle 11g XE 32-bit if installed on Windows 64-bit system. I needed session trace on Windows 7 64-bit. Apart from that it works well for me in multiple production MS Windows 64-bit systems: Windows Serv...

ahh... that explains that
@Marian Some people just give a negative effect on others. @bluefeet doesn't like "This is not tested, so it may have syntax errors." (me neither. If you can't test, write pseudocode, not SQL), I don't like a certain user that adds the "select" tags in all the questions (he answers), etc. Some smells don't match.
@Lamak Yes that is part of my problem. It is like he is vomiting answers.
and most are code only
@ypercube , , and several others
@ypercube Yeah, don't like that guy either
Initially, I bitched about @njk's "what have you tried" only comments
(I would use his new username, but I don't remember... @FreshPrinceOfSO?)
You can call him @TheUserFormerlyKnownAsPolishPrince
3
14:01
@Lamak I evolved the comment.
@ypercube Now I want to change my username
@ypercube Well, I really don't stay that much on SO to be bothered by incomplete answers :-).
@FreshPrinceOfSO Oh no, not again! :))
@FreshPrinceOfSO Yes, you did
@AaronBertrand So that's what I missed.
@JackDouglas He antagonized me. I appreciate @AaronBertrand having my back.
I've chatted with him before, he can be a bit abrasive bit I don't actually think he is irredeemable: I'd prefer we to try and mold him into our image before we resort to bludgeoning him.
I'm not saying we should walk on egg-shells: it's ok to tell him when he's out of line. better not to be personal though eg let's tell him what he's doing is 'dickish' rather than saying he is a dick
@JackDouglas My issue with his comment was that it was targeted and completely unprovoked.
@JackDouglas And I stated my position as such
14:13
@FreshPrinceOfSO which comment?
Mar 25 at 20:50, by Polish Prince
@RichardTheKiwi Out of curiosity, why am I being singled out?
0
Q: Can we change the comment-flag system on The Heap chatroom?

Max VernonYesterday (April 1st, April Fools Day notwithstanding) we had some high-ranking members of DBA.SE banned from chat by moderators/10k users from other sites that did not take an appropriate amount of time to evaluate the situation. The Heap is a place where many 10k+ users hang out and talk about...

@MaxVernon me likey!
now..if that would be also possible, would be great
@JackDouglas saying "that smells like dick cheese" would be out of line, then?
14:18
Anyone want to prove this?
2
Q: Does UNION ALL guarantee the order of the result set

whytheqCan I be sure that the result set of the following script will always be sorted like this O-R-D-E-R ? SELECT 'O' UNION ALL SELECT 'R' UNION ALL SELECT 'D' UNION ALL SELECT 'E' UNION ALL SELECT 'R' Can it be proved to sometimes be in a different order?

@FreshPrinceOfSO Richard's question seems valid enough to me, you could have just said "take it up on mSO if you have a problem with it". He isn't the best communicator and reading the transcript I don't think he deliberately singled you out, but even if he did, who cares: he has no authority here.
@JackDouglas I appreciate you looking into it. I still felt singled out right after two other users had requested VtC
Problems with the text only communication :-).
@bluefeet I think in the specific example he provides it may well be true that order is preserved—you'd still have to be daft to rely on it though!
You can never rely on order unless you specify it.
14:27
@MaxVernon I hope that this is possible
@bluefeet Unless you're using SQL Server 2000 and have a GROUP BY clause.
@Lamak thanks. Me too. It seems like it should be that way for any room that is not a transient room.
@MaxVernon I have never worked on sql server 2000, so I don't know what that means
Perhaps if the room has been around for more than 30 days with activity each day or something.
@FreshPrinceOfSO he seemed to think the question you linked to was in a different category, or reading between the lines, perhaps he just liked it and didn't want it closed. Neither of which is your fault, you can talk about VtC'ing SO questions wherever you like and it is public knowledge we do it in here
I think @AaronBertrand is irritated with this question
0
A: Does UNION ALL guarantee the order of the result set

Aaron BertrandTry removing all of the ALLs, for example. Or even just one of them. Now consider that the type of optimization that has to happen there (and many other types) will also be possible when the SELECT queries are actual queries against tables, and are optimized separately. Without an ORDER BY, order...

14:30
@bluefeet There was an assumption made in the SQL Server 200 code that meant using GROUP BY resulted in implicit ordering according to your GROUP BY clause. When they release 2005, many many customers complained the query processor was broken because results were coming back unsorted.
3
+1 - We definitely get good migrations on DBA. Part of our situation is also an active chat room community with a lot of users having migration rights on SO - if we see something that belongs on our site we can collectively bring it over ourselves without having to involve the perpetually overworked SO mods. — JNK Jan 31 at 14:38
@bluefeet You got the +1 because he did an edit.
@MaxVernon Thanks for the explanation. You get a star.
@bluefeet my pleasure. and thanks!
@FreshPrinceOfSO So what, you actually up-vote only one answer?
14:32
Feedback please
0
Q: upvoting duplicate questions

FreshPrinceOfSOIs upvoting duplicate questions really following the guidelines of the all mighty alt text? The question shows research effort; it is useful and clear I raise this question after recently receiving this comment on a duplicate question. @FreshPrinceOfSO Then close-vote on that basis, ple...

@Marian I'm still on the fence whether all answers under a question should be upvoted if they all say the same thing
@FreshPrinceOfSO Oy, this is where I giving everybody a +1 :-).
If the answers are good, of course, not every answer possible.
Speaking of meta, anyone want to help burninate the ?
2
Q: Do we need the [mysql-like] tag?

bluefeetI ran across the mysql-like and I am not sure if it is needed. You would think these questions would be tagged with mysql and like but the "LIKE" tag wiki states: This tag is not for the SQL reserved keyword LIKE. I am guessing that since the like specifically states this is not for SQL th...

@Marian Well then, let me type up my own version of the answer.
We need to create a instead.
@FreshPrinceOfSO So what stops you? :-) If it's not really identical, word by word, you would deserve a +, from my point of view.
Now, really, if all the answers are in the same time-frame, than I usually up-vote the correct ones. If one comes after 3 days and says the same as an existing answer, then I won't up-vote.
14:36
@Marian You're too kind with your upvotes ;)
@FreshPrinceOfSO I often add my own answer when the other answers answer the question but maybe leave out some details. Also a different query pattern may be better or worse and I'd like to add my own alternative. I even do this when a similar answer has already been accepted, since the more ways something is said (even if it boils down to the same thing), the more likely the post will come up in a search, and the more likely a future reader will find value.
@FreshPrinceOfSO World's too bad. I just like to spread love :-). Now there are more ways to skin a cat.. as @AaronBertrand said. So I like to thank them all for the effort.
@AaronBertrand When @AaronBertrand makes an answer it gets an auto-upvote
@FreshPrinceOfSO I don't see any identical answers in this case. Yes we are all saying the same thing but we are saying it differently, quoting/linking to different things, showing different counter-examples, etc.
@FreshPrinceOfSO if we all just answered "No, you can't guarantee it." then you'd have a case I think.
sigh
+1 @AaronBertrand ALTHOUGH THERE'S NO NEED TO SHOUT MR BERTRANDwhytheq 1 min ago
@bluefeet Wow.. there is a mysql-like tag?!
14:41
0
A: Do we need the [mysql-like] tag?

FreshPrinceOfSOThe urban dictionary defines burniate as: A complete meltdown. I say we completely melt down this tag as it's simply not mysql specific. Otherwise, we may as well create a tag for each DBMS and it's respective operators.

@bluefeet In fairness I didn't flag anything. I was just the the vocal arm of the flaganator
So, this guy posts a bad answer and then says that it was "implicit on the etc"
@Mahmoud. Yes. That was implicit in the "etc" bit. I am assuming that the person I am writing to is not an idiot. — Vinny Roe 13 mins ago
i'm flagging everything as rude or offensive these days
I don't flag comments in chat. I flag and VTC the **it out of questions
@AaronBertrand flagged
14:44
@Marian yes and we need to get rid of it
@bluefeet sql-ish
Mercy, looks like I missed a lot of fun with the fecking chat bans yesterday. Glad to know I haven't been the only flagged of late
@billinkc flagged
i keed i keed
it was pretty funny ... i missed the comment that @AaronBertrand actually made
Hell, I'll flag myself. Busy day so 30 minutes in the cooler won't hurt me none
but it was obliterated and he was banned
14:48
never a dull moment around here it seems
@billinkc you were flagged?
@billinkc apparently flagging your own comment can't lead to an auto-ban.
LOL. I'm glad we're all underemployed
2
then mods descended ... comment gone ... aaron was gone and someone (not me) started flagging all the mods' comments
@billinkc I mean, really, could you offend yourself that badly? :-)
14:49
@swasheck I create
at which point in time Shog came in
@AaronBertrand seriously ... you flagged your own comment and that happened?
@swasheck I wanted to participate on your "social experiment"
@Lamak yeah - i was just not going to name names
@swasheck no, I don't believe I have ever flagged anyone's comment in chat.
Last week, I vented about the DBAs inability to handle permissions and used anul and fracking in the same sentence and external mods came in, cleaned my posts and kicked me out for 30
14:50
@swasheck hm, should I remove that then?, he actually said it himself, wich is why I posted it
@billinkc without flags?
@Lamak nah ... i just didnt know what had happened since i left and i'm too ADD/ADHD to go back and read
@billinkc I remember that. I didn't find anything rude about that comment either. I thought it was quite funny!
@swasheck well, I removed them anyway, now I look like a mod ;-)
@swasheck the thought was that it was some auto trigger. Meh, whatever
14:52
@billinkc Shog denied the existence of any such machination
Well then someone's a right ballwashing bastard
starred ftw
@billinkc ok, you just crossed the line with that one! LOL!
@billinkc I had to.
What is this guy on about?
-2
Q: IO Frozen in error SQL error log

user22022The log shows IO DBName is Frozen follow by thaw but yet my database schedule backup task which normally been running isn't since the network team are doing backs (not database backups, according to them) on the database server, using ArcServ 16.5. They run their backup utility around 11:00pm or...

Ok, time to get some ETL done
14:55
That comment is about to self-destruct.
@MaxVernon hopefully they dont thaw it too slowly - it may get rancid
@swasheck no kidding. How does a database "freeze" anyway? I never heard of anything like that.
@FreshPrinceOfSO I won't be doing it today. I just created it so it would be available
15:37
@AaronBertrand Are you around? Trying to remember if you had a post on cursor best practices, like FAST_FORWARD, etc.
@bluefeet @FreshPrinceOfSO Why change all the questions? Wouldn't be easier to ask at meta for the to become a synonym of ?
@ypercube I am basing the off of this other meta post which requested a cleanup of sql tags.
9
Q: Organize tags for SQL key words

Erwin BrandstetterThere are a number of tags for SQL key words. And I think that makes sense, mostly. However, many of those keywords are not very selective or descriptive by themselves as they are very common words. As SO grows, many of them are competing with other fields. I started editing a new tag wiki on sql...

it sucks when a bounty gets cut in half because the user didn't award it
The bounty system is terrible. Full stop.
15:46
I might be wrong in my answer about how to proceed with this, can someone take a peek?
0
A: how to create temp table while Joining multiple tables that have to be PIVOT

bluefeetPart of your problem is that you are using dynamic sql and you want to insert that into a temp table for use later on. Here are the issues with that: The temp table cannot be created before because the number of columns is unknown. A temp table created before the dynamic SQL will be out of sco...

@AaronBertrand Thanks.
16:04
@AaronBertrand Can you recommend any blog posts about sp_send_dbmail ?
@ypercube what are you trying to do?
@swasheck Send emails once a day (with new data taken from a table)
and I have no idea what or how it does it.
sp_configure 'Database Mail XPs',1; RECONFIGURE
or you can use SSMS and enable Database Mail and then create a profile with an email address ...
EXEC msdb.dbo.sp_send_dbmail
		@recipients = @recipients,
		@subject = @subject,
		@body = @message,
		@attach_query_result_as_file = @attach_results
is an example i have
ok, thnx
16:55
man ... screw app support. that's for the service desk
JNK
JNK
@bluefeet I'm pretty sure a temp table created in the parent scope of dynamic sql is visible within the dynamic sql
DECLARE @SQL nvarchar(max)

create table #test (id int)

SET @SQL = 'INSERT INTO #test values (1),(2),(3)'

EXEC (@SQL)

SELECT * FROM #TEST
works fine
I think the OPPOSITE is not true though....
yep not true
If the create is inside dynamic sql, you can't see the table in the outer (non-dyn) scope
I commented but you fixed it as I commented :)
Thanks for the help. I figured I had something wrong with that. Do you think that is how they will have to do these joins? A global temp for each query?
JNK
JNK
that or make a real table
Or, nastily, you could have nested dynamic sql
dyn sql to create the table then dyn sql within that dyn sql scope to do the query
but it would be cleaner just to kill yourself
17:10
@JNK that is true. It is pretty messy
17:23
@ypercube I think it would be more appropriate to have to be a synonym of
@swasheck Haha
@ypercube @bluefeet I'm also finding that there are many questions that aren't related at all
17:50
@AaronBertrand that BEGIN ... END requirement I noted was a supposition on my part. I now realize that anything past the AS is included in the text of the stored proc. Thanks for pointing that out!
and that wasn't my downvote on your answer, by the way!
18:26
I don't really know if this would be an acceptable question for the site, but I was wondering if there's a best practice for passing a parameter into a stored procedure to tell it which queries to execute, and if so what it is. For example, passing a parameter containing something like 0010110 to tell it to run the 3rd, 5th, and 6th queries and return them
So I just got an overview of a database with ~400 tables. One temp table and one staging table for each event of csv file they import
I feel like crying
(I don't think I want to create a separate SP for each procedure since another parameter is a huge list of comma-separated values which gets parsed into a #temp table, and I don't want to do that parsing more than once)
@Rachel why do you want to stuff this into a single value only to have to rip it apart?
@Rachel also why are you parsing a CSV list instead of using table-valued parameters?
@AaronBertrand I'm working with a dynamic number of queries, where users supply which sets of data to return by checking boxes, and I'm using SQL Server 2005 so table-valued parameters are not available
And my application which uses the procedure obtains the data into a .Net DataSet, so to access the data I need to know which tables are in the data set, and in what order they're located
I guess I could post a question here (or on SO), but I wasn't sure if it would be on-topic or not
@bluefeet I've retagged all to and have requested that OP's with at least 5 upvotes on questions with request a synonym be created.
18:50
@FreshPrinceOfSO ok, cool
@bluefeet How do we get that tag to get burniated
@FreshPrinceOfSO I just commented to your answer.
@bluefeet just read your comment
@FreshPrinceOfSO have a +15
@bluefeet You're the best. I don't care what they say about you ;)
19:23
@FreshPrinceOfSO who says what?
;-)
wow some of these are interesting reasons
0
A: Aliases in SQL Server

lanceI personally don't like aliasing tables all over the place because: you can forget what you are doing a pinch of aliasing is like salt in cooking; it can go a long way. aliasing is sloppy and can be hard to read for the next person. An alias is only required if you refer to the table twice, to...

@FreshPrinceOfSO well thanks, I have heard what people say.....I suck
VtC that question as not constructive
@bluefeet what?, who?, when?.....what?
Really? You think aliasing means you are not learning the database structure, where do you get that? — bluefeet 9 secs ago
Aliasing is sloppy?, do you care to explain why?, do you rather read a block of text instead? — Lamak 19 secs ago
@Lamak Where's @AaronBertrand to comment?
19:38
3
Q: Concatenation Physical Operation: Does it guarantee order of execution?

Gordon LinoffIn standard SQL, the result of a union all is not guaranteed to be in any order. So, something like: select 'A' as c union all select 'B' Could return two rows in any order (although, in practice on any database I know of, 'A' will come before 'B'). In SQL Server, this turns into an executio...

related to that SO question, Gordon is here :-)
@bluefeet Don't know, but I'm just glad that he sort of came back
@bluefeet am I getting this right and he is suggesting he never selects Tnum as TransactionNumber from ltable as L???
@Zane yes you are reading that right
that you would just write ltable.tnum everywhere in that scenario?
@Zane yes
over and over and over again
19:46
for all eternity
Hard to read for the next person? You would rather read/write tablename. in front of every object in your select statement than a simple alias. What if the column name is ambiguous and you're creating a view/sproc/select statement and clarify what the column name actually means?? What if you're building a report sproc?? This statement impossibly incorrect. — Zane 10 secs ago
To harsh?
@Zane nah
though This statement is impossibly incorrect sounds like an oxymoron to me
he did actually posted that incorrect statement :-)
It's true!
You can forget what you are doing makes even less sense. If you forget what your alias is then scroll back up and look what you put there! Point 5 learning the database structure. I still have to make all the correct joins. You still have to know how the data fits together. What are you talking about sir? — Zane 15 secs ago
poor guy. He has being an SO user since today, maybe time to cut him some slack
19:53
I wish I could flick him in the ear and call him a dickhead.
well, he did put a target on his head by himself
(on his avatar)
@Lamak I agree
let's not pile on the downvotes. Nothing wrong with asking him to further explain
JNK
JNK
@bluefeet if you come to a new site and make bold and sweeping assertions about something as basic as aliasing in SQL server without giving the appearance of having actually USED aliasing or had to maintain any complex code, you deserve all the downvotes that get tossed your way
Nice one @ypercube
@ypercube you took the wind out of my sails there.
19:55
@lance Please don't get offended by the downvotes. We have nothing against you, we only disagree with the answer. Welcome to StackOverflow. — ypercube 48 secs ago
JNK
JNK
downvotes are never personal, but when you are wrong you are wrong and this guy is 100% wrong, and terribly so
@JNK There is nothing wrong with dovnvotes but come on he is at -6 for his first answer.
@bluefeet I'm judging the answer on it's merits not how long the user has been here. I don't want there to be any chance that someone mistakes that answer for information.
@JNK Not for you, and neither for me. But I've seen a lot of high rep users taking downvotes very personal, so a new user may be prone to do it too
and if he doesn't, then there is always the embarrased feeling. (I would've hide and possibly never made another contibution on SO if my first answer had 6 downvotes)
JNK
JNK
@bluefeet well his first answer is frigging terrible!
19:59
@JNK that, I agree
@JNK I agree but part of the problem is that question is not constructive. It is going to generate opinions
JNK
JNK
Note that none of the comments say "And you smell bad and your mom wears combat boots so go screw yourself"
@JNK what's wrong with mothers using combat boots?

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