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hot2use

06:35

Morning

What a beautiful start to the new week.

@hot2use Are you daft? It is quite obvious what the context is, and you clearly did not even clink the link. — Matt 2 hours ago

hot2use

06:58

Sorry 'bout that @TomV

McNets

07:58

Morning

@hot2use clink the link!!!

Tom V

08:14

@hot2use Sorry for what?

hot2use

@TomV BEL 2 : 5 SWI (Football)

@McNets Yeah. I left a comment. And flagged.

Tom V

@hot2use The way the teams played that score was deserved

George.Palacios

Morning

hot2use

09:31

"Do you remember that text you clipped from somewhere?" - "Yes?" - "Where is it?" - "Ehhhhh....."

I can highly recommend ClipMate (not affiliated)

George.Palacios

The Windows clipboard has been lacking for a very long time

Andriy M

Is the new feature suggested by the link clinker actually relevant to the OP's scenario? It allows you to redirect read/write connections to the primary node, while the OP is after redirecting read-only connections to the secondary (read-only) node.

Tom V

@George.Palacios The October update for windows 10 is supposed to fix some of it. I haven't installed it yet myself so I can't comment

George.Palacios

@TomV as long as it doesn't delete my documents in the process I'll wait and see :)

Didn't I read something about them pulling the update again?

Paul White

howtogeek.com/351978/…

George.Palacios

09:36

Ah obviously not - they're rolling it out again

Sync clipboard across PC's. That's going to lead to some really hilarious situations I hope

Paul White

@AndriyM Honestly I'm not sure. My concern is that it took less time to edit the answer to make it self-contained and link to the product documentation than it took people to write comments complaining about the link and then start arguing and flagging about it.

Andriy M

I think @hot2use's initial comment, in addition to educating the poster about our quality standards, was also inviting the poster to re-evaluate their own suggestion. If they followed the advice, they might see for themselves that either their suggestion was irrelevant or that it wasn't very obvious how or whether it was.

hot2use

@PaulWhite I partly agree. However, I believe in teaching people How to do things first and then let them try it out and do it themselves. The learning experience is intenser. (No use in writing the exams for the students). If I then have to read "Are you daft?...", then that is totally not how this community should be led.

Paul White

@hot2use Right, but that comment was prompted by your canned comment. Sometimes, it is better to show someone how to improve their post, then, and only then, leave a customized comment with further advice if necessary.

Andriy M

That's a good point too

Paul White

09:50

You might also like to consider exactly how friendly and welcoming this opening text is:

> Welcome to DBA.SE. We appreciate your contribution/participation. However, the community does expect a certain quality in the answers posted.

How would you react if you saw that as the opening to your first answer?

hot2use

@PaulWhite I have since removed the "However, ..." part.

George.Palacios

In a lot of people that would get their backs up I imagine - it's directly commenting on the quality. How far do you take it though? Eventually you're going to just end up babysitting new posters.

Paul White

The "however" isn't really the problem 🙂

Andriy M

@hot2use I have absolutely no doubt that you were being helpful there. I'd just like to say that I see a point in Paul's suggestion. Showing an example would likely make your comment look less like admonition and more like a genuine attempt to help them learn

Paul White

@George.Palacios Indeed. Yet, as I said before, sometimes it is better to show someone how to improve their answer, then leave a personalized message with any helpful help centre links. It is very easy to come off passive-aggressive rude when the intent was good.

George.Palacios

09:54

I suppose as well it's very easy to come off as just another copy/paste to another user, making it likely you'll be ignored.

Paul White

Canned comments can be problematic like that yes.

Andriy M

Partly why I can't bring myself to using them, even though I often consider starting doing that.

Paul White

I don't want to overstate this, but: As written, the canned comment text is arguably more of a subtle put-down rather than genuinely friendly advice. You might as well write "hey bro, your answer is complete rubbish - read the help, d'uh".

George.Palacios

Copy/Pasted that ready for the next new user :D

Andriy M

I think it should be "read the help, d'uh"

George.Palacios

10:00

The trick now is how many characters can you get it down to and still be understood. "Read Help. Ug"

hot2use

Ok, I understand that you don't think my "canned" comment was a good response in this case.

Paul White

I have made what I think is an improvement to your answer, along the lines described in the Help Centre item How do I write a good answer?. Linking to documentation is, more often than not, acceptable as an answer, but fuller answers tend to get a better reception. If you can improve on my suggestion, please do so, using the edit facility. — Paul White ♦ 27 secs ago

hot2use

deleted

Paul White

I have no doubt the intentions were good, I'm just trying to point out a better way of handling these things. A more thoughtful, personal way.

@AndriyM Fixed 😃

George.Palacios

@AndriyM I'd agree with this - the feature the poster linked to doesn't actually appear to be an answer to the question regardless of all of the above

Paul White

10:11

It's certainly an answer. Whether it is correct or not is up for judgement.

George.Palacios

Sorry yes - it's not an answer that satisfies the parameters of the question from the looks of things - IMHO

Paul White

Right, fair enough.

Paul White

10:30

Gosh who says test cricket can't be exciting.

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

@PaulWhite I like watching test cricket for relaxation - it's relaxing in much the same way that watching tropical fish is relaxing.

George.Palacios

I prefer the sound of crickets to watching the sport personally

Paul White

@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells Yeah most of the time I'd agree, but this NZ v PAK match has been quite edge of the seat. Even more so because the NZ media have been ragging the blackcaps for days.

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

Tunbridge Wells is pretty much the home of test cricket. The first professional teams came from around this area. Maybe I should go see a county match live sometime.

Paul White

Can't beat a local cricket game on a nice day

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

10:33

We're in England - getting a nice day here is quite a hit and miss affair.

Having said that, in a country famous for being rainy they still manage to engineer periodic water shortages.

Paul White

@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells Bit like Wellington then 🙂

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

Oldie but a goodie:
Why is it so windy in Wellington?
'cause Auckland sucks!
I'm here 'til Thursday.

Paul White

@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells Wrong sort of water falling from the sky, perhaps.

@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells ...and ChCh blows

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

@PaulWhite Certainly the wrong one for the trains

Andriy M

@George.Palacios Thanks. I saw the scenarios were different, but having no experience working with AGs I thought maybe it didn't matter, maybe it could still be shown how the new redirection feature could be made to work for the OP. Maybe it still can, even though you are confirming my doubts.

Paul White

10:35

@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells Do they still have those problems with leaves or has modern technoogy solved that somehow?

George.Palacios

@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells I just lowered my expectations of what a good day is. If you consider rainy to be a good day we're basically living in Hawaii without the volcanoes

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

@PaulWhite Absolutely. The problem is that nobody wants to spend any money on fixing the problems.

George.Palacios

@PaulWhite There's actually a very good reason for that my train-obsessed colleague told me the other week - there is a voltage sent through the line which locates with the trains - this is used to locate them. Too many leaves = invisible trains

The more you know.

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

London has the best infrastructure money can buy - in about 1890. Unfortunately it's also a world centre of excellence for NIMBY-ism so actually fixing anything is next to impossible.

Paul White

Seems like GPS and mobile/radio transmission would be easier?

I thought the problem with the leaves was one of traction

George.Palacios

10:38

It is easier but I imagine less reliable

Paul White

Ground-up leaves making for quite a slippery substance

George.Palacios

Signal blackspots etc.

Paul White

Satellites?

George.Palacios

Tunnels

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

@PaulWhite Again, this would involve spending money. In our great privatised world, nobody is actually responsible for anything and certainly nobody has the combination of money and authority to actually fix the problem.

Paul White

10:39

idk seems like a not insurmountable problem, but yeah, money

George.Palacios

I'm sure it does come down to money in the end.

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

@PaulWhite Money and will. As long as nobody with money is being inconvenienced nothing will get done.

Paul White

@George.Palacios even there, you'd think it'd be enough to know a train had entered/left a tunnel

George.Palacios

Otherwise we'd all be on flying elon-musk-mobiles right about now

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

@PaulWhite Elf and safety ...

You have to use precisely the right nasal tone of voice.

George.Palacios

10:40

In all fairness the infrastructure over here hasn't been overhauled since the 70's really

so it is getting on to 50 years old now

But something something Austerity something something...

Paul White

At least you have some trains

2

We can't even decide how to get people from Auckland airport to the CBD

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

Yes, you really ought to try it in New Zealand sometime.

Paul White

Drone taxis will solve all the problems no doubt

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

@PaulWhite Not until they come up with a way to make racist johnny cab drivers.

Paul White

ha!

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

10:45

Although apparently sentencing algorithms were found to develop racist bias because they used training data sets based on the sentencing history of a racist court system.

So maybe it's not that hard, after all.

Tom V

@PaulWhite I rather have no trains than unreliable trains. It's really fun when you go to Brussels by train in the morning and then in the evening find out you won't be getting home because of a random strike

Paul White

The general problem with AI is that all the training data is created by humans

@TomV Fair point

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

It's the same class of problem with the Lloyd's of London target operating model. In order to speed up the order placing process someone will have to invent a way to automate the liquid lunch.

George.Palacios

Automate the people drinking said lunches - drunk robots sound much better.

It'll all go to hell when they unionise anyway.

Paul White

insert SkyNet reference here

George.Palacios

10:49

I for one welcome our new racist AI taxi overlords

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

@George.Palacios Drunk Robots sounds like a name for an indie band.

2

hot2use

I never quite connected to cricket. (or just differently, possibly because of the cricket bat I received to the head while playing once in primary school).

What's the difference between Test Cricket and Cricket?

George.Palacios

@hot2use Oh around 2 or 3 development cycles

hot2use

drunkrobots.bandcamp.com

2

There goes the Indie Band

> The first officially recognised Test match took place on 15–19 March 1877 and was played between England and Australia at the Melbourne Cricket Ground (MCG), where Australia won by 45 runs

So in a nutshell: Test Cricket is the moste enduring form of Cricket?

George.Palacios

11:07

Yeah. I think it's that and one-day cricket basically

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

@hot2use I'm pretty sure that five day matches had been played at the county level for some time before international test matches were a thing.

George.Palacios

Not that I'm in any way an expert

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

One-day cricket is a relatively new thing. I'm pretty sure it only dates back to the 1970s.

George.Palacios

Just on the offchance that it existed I googled it: cricketpedia.weebly.com

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

Tunbridge Wells Cricket Club

Tunbridge Wells Cricket Club are an amateur cricket club in Royal Tunbridge Wells, Kent, England. They were founded in 1782 and play their home matches at the Nevill Ground. As of 2016 they play in the Kent Cricket League Premier Division. == History == Tunbridge Wells Cricket Club was founded in 1782. They first started playing cricket on the Higher Common Ground in Tunbridge Wells. In 1882, to commemorate their centenary, they played a match against Marylebone Cricket Club. In 1895, Tunbridge Wells CC purchased a lease alongside Bluemantle Cricket Club from William Nevill, 1st Marques...

Great Railway Journeys also does a short segment on the origins of professional cricket. This episode, I think.

bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06z8ht0

George.Palacios

11:24

The BBC - full of answers to questions that nobody asked.

Although that is interesting

Tom V

@hot2use Skipping through the songs there it sounds like they really are drunk robots

George.Palacios

@TomV well of course they are. That would be false advertising otherwise

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

@George.Palacios BBC4 does some great docs on fabulously obscure subjects. I saw one where the presenter wrote a faux-traditional folk song, then proceeded to track it through scottish and irish folk music styles, some sort of proto-bluegrass style and then to a modern country and western arrangement. It did a great job of showing the origins and evolution process.

George.Palacios

Haha that's great

You know the BBC is far from a perfect organisation, but they do produce some really unique media

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

Most of the modern issues with the beeb are driven by what is essentially an unofficial channel that allows political appointees to be installed into its management.

But we don't do political appointees here in the UK. Good heavens no!

George.Palacios

11:31

This is true. It is pretty much a slave of the incumbent party

Why would any honest party want to get rid of a dedicated media outlet though

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

Fundamentally the beeb is way more useful to the incumbent than Murdoch ever will be. If they let him get rid of the beeb then they really will have no mouthpiece independent of him.

George.Palacios

God don't. You're depressing me hahaha

Hobsons choices are the worst choices

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

I guess his security must be a bit better than Dodi Al-Fayyad's

hot2use

14:11

I think I now understand why older posts can be duplicates of newer posts.

McNets

14:27

@hot2use ??

hot2use

I was previously confused as to why sometimes moderators would mark (older) questions as duplicates of other (newer) questions.

My reasoning was: How can an old question be the duplicate of a newer question?

It had me stumped.

But today I found a question with a valid solution, that answers the question (without an answer) of an older "issue".

@McNets It was a timeline issue ~~on my behalf~~ in my thought process.

McNets

@hot2use I agree that 1st question should be closed if 2nd one has an answer, but maybe not as Duplicated.

Paul White

Archive of my http://SQLblog.com content is up at https://sqlkiwi.blogspot.com/ #SQLBlog

Tweeted by SQL_Kiwi on November 18, 2018 at 8:10 AM

8

FYI

hot2use

All the other reasons didn't make any sense IMO.

@PaulWhite Thanks

@PaulWhite is anything special happening with/to SQLBlog.com?

Paul White

@hot2use It died.

hot2use

15:05

@PaulWhite Wasn't Aaron Bertrand and a couple of other on the same site?

Lamak

@PaulWhite or you killed it?

and are now trying to pass it as an accident

Paul White

@hot2use Yes: dba.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/3112/…

billinkc

15:23

@PaulWhite How dare you edit my post

Paul White

@billinkc What can I tell you? I'm an absolute tyrant.

Tom V

@PaulWhite Is there any use in already editing all the links to your blogspot blog if it's temporary?

Lamak

@billinkc how come you are here?, did you bankrupt your company already?

Paul White

@TomV It might well be permanent now, but no, I won't be doing any more myself for the moment.

Honestly this is all a massive PITA and I'm still working out the best way to do things.

Tom V

Why wouldn't you make it permanent?

The content has a home

And you don't post on that blog anymore anyway so why care about what platform it's on

Paul White

15:30

@TomV Well originally I had a plan to rewrite things to a WordPress blog.

@TomV To be clear: the blogspot blog is my own, SQLblog is owned by someone else.

Lamak

@PaulWhite let me guess, you were using the estimated plan instead of the actual one

3

billinkc

@Lamak Trying my best

Lamak

no wonder it hasn't happened yet

Paul White

@Lamak Yeah and the second plan had a significant cost underestimation problem.

Lamak

happens to everyone

@billinkc are you going to the mvp summit?

Paul White

15:34

If SQLBlog stays up for a while, I'm going to use this approach: sqlblog.com/blogs/paul_white/archive/2010/07/28/…

@TomV Ah I see now. You were referring to my meta answer I think. Updated it.

Tom V

@PaulWhite Yes sorry I should have made that clear

Paul White

No worries. Anyway, not that it really matters, but the reason it's on blogger is purely historical - that's where I kept a sort of "back up" of my posts. So when sqlblog went down for an extended period, that was the easiest place to bring stuff up when people started to complain.

billinkc

15:59

@Lamak I am. Will I be blessed with your presence?

JzInqXc9Dg

16:10

Hey guys

I'm looking to setup sql replication for the first time

Lol, feel like I'm standing at the edge of a cliff with one foot already attempting to take a next step

billinkc

What flavor? Transactional, something, something

JzInqXc9Dg

Well - that is what I'm trying to decide. From my research, it seems like I want Transactional because I can have a subscriber with as close to live data as I'm going to get.

The thing is... publisher is in Europe. We have a tunnel to our domain here in the states where the subscriber will be

Lamak

@billinkc yup, finally

billinkc

What's the latency like between the nodes and do you have a feel for the volume of changes?

JzInqXc9Dg

That connection is theoretically constant. But that isn't to say there of course won't be hiccups in the connection. I'm just not sure how the replication will handle that...

billinkc

16:13

@Lamak DO YOU WANT TO SLEEP WITH ME?

I mean ummm, be my roommateadoro

Lamak

@billinkc I do

@billinkc oh, then no

billinkc

que lastima

(accent marks do not exist on my keyboard)

JzInqXc9Dg

In terms of the volume.. well, the fact that the replication is going to allow me to pick and choose specific tables to replication (from my understanding...) - I don't think the volume is going to be an issue.

Lamak

if you would really want, you would write it right

JzInqXc9Dg

Latency.... I would need to check on that.

Lamak

16:16

@billinkc I already have a roommate, I thought you were MIA

JzInqXc9Dg

let me do a ping to the EU server @billinkc

min 110ms, max 114ms, avg 111ms

(over just the last few min)

billinkc

Transaction replication reads from the logs, pushes to a distributor and then the distributor sends to the subscriber. Until the distributor acks the data, the publisher's tlog will continue to grow so I'm guessing you'd want to have the distributor in Belgium. That should minimize source system impact

JzInqXc9Dg

yea, i was thinking that too.

can the distributor be on the same server as the publisher? should it?

billinkc

It can but you'd be illadvised to do so

JzInqXc9Dg

ok

just for plain old separation of concerns?

Tom V

16:25

@billinkc why Belgium? What did we do wrong?

Except playing a terrible match against Switzerland yesterday

billinkc

@TomV I know where Jz works ;)

I'd have to go dig up the documentation (we turned transaction replication on beginning of this past year)

JzInqXc9Dg

there is one other fnuny caveat

im about to go into a meeting, but i want to see what you think about it too

not directly related to the replication

but something id need to do on the source system/server before setting it upo

idk how much of an impact it will be

actually.. there are posts already about my problem

basically the server name changed AFTER the sql instance was setup

so when i try to setup replicaiton it gives me an error.

3

Q: Replication error after server name change

I have changed the computer name of the server where SQL Server 2008 R2 is installed. Old name was WIN-OUJEKRMGXXX New server name is KASURDYYY When I try to configure replication, the following error occurs: SQL Server Replication requires actual server name to make a connection to the ...

im not sure how impactful this will be on the source systems

billinkc

At a previous job, they had changed server names and it was a nightmare ever after.

JzInqXc9Dg

17:15

oh man

well, it is preventing me from even trying replication on the server

it is weird, because i connect to the sever in ssms with name "A" - but @@servername shows "B" ... so I would think doing the @sp_dropserver "B" and @sp_addserver "A" shouldn't impact anything since all connections already must be using A

just internally, the sql instance thinks the name is "B" and the replication wizard must be pulling that name when trying to make the connection. it seems a bit superficial but any underlying connection already in place will be fine.

but MAN is that quite the assumption to be making on a production server (arguably the most important one for the business) all the way in EU ! lol

Jack Douglas