The Heap™ – Consultancy ©®

hichris123

00:16

Currently this question has 3 votes to migrate to DBA. I'm not super familiar with your site -- would this question be welcome on DBA?

Aaron Bertrand

01:19

Oh, man. Someone's salty about a revision comment I made over a month ago.

I mean, I could have left it as a comment on the post, for a lot more people to see. But now that makes me feel like Darth Vader. "Pray I don't alter the deal any further."

Paul White

04:04

@hichris123 Hi Chris, sorry for the slow reply. It's been migrated now I see, which is fine. It may not be the greatest question ever asked, but it is on-topic. Thanks for asking.

Adeptus

04:51

I've inherited a horrible SQL Server database... most of the tables have no keys, and so there's duplicate data all over the place. Is there an easy way of checking which tables have duplicates, to save me querying each table manually?

ypercubeᵀᴹ

07:01

@AaronBertrand Darth was good. he saved the galaxy in the end, if we ignore a few million deaths he caused in the mean time ;)

Tom V

Easy as pie

Spud Webb Proves He Can Still Dunk At Age 47!

►

Andriy M

@ypercubeᵀᴹ Or billions, if we are talking about destroying whole planets. But destroying planets is one thing, and choking "users" who tried as little as contradict him is another ;)

Phil

07:45

@AndriyM lakhs

2

Learner

07:59

I was speaking against SQL Server yesterday, that didn't included SQL Server 2016 as it just looks awesome !!!

Andriy M

08:10

@Learner Goodness, you don't mean to say it's actually got DISTINCT ON, do you?

As I remember that was your particular beef against the product yesterday.

Learner

I just used that to have a go on them for not being moving forward fast enough...

but just found today, what's coming up in 2016, which changed my mind :)

ypercubeᵀᴹ

@Learner My guess is the R thing that tripped you off ;)

Andriy M

@Learner And what's that? I've heard of some additions to T-SQL in 2016 but there may be much more I'm not yet aware of. What was it that particularly appealed to you?

Learner

@ypercubeᵀᴹ Temporal table is the one I really liked, it def going to help product we are working on

I am yet to look at R services

but it all looks really promising

SSRS is getting new look in 2016 as well, which I really appreciate too

do we only have RC0 out yet ?
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/evaluate-sql-server-2016

Andriy M

08:38

@Learner Looks like it. The page's title isn't build-specific, so whatever's listed there must be the current latest build.

Learner

08:55

just installing it thanks

catch you guys later

Phil

bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-35829251 - A national treasure

Master Database

09:27

0

Q: Issue while creating user account

When I click Confirm and create this account in Database Administrators meta I am getting this error. Actual problem is I clicked it second time. Is there any feedback portal is available for post this kind of issues? This question is enough?

bug

Tom V

@MasterDatabase Ha, so the https/cloudflare issue still hasn't been solved on meta

Paul White

09:47

Nope.

wBob

@AaronBertrand "This deal is getting worse all the time."

@AaronBertrand Have you seen the Robot Chicken take on that scene? Quite amusing.

Phil

12:33

"I am currently recruiting for a Senior SQL DBA in Manchester for a leading organisation.". Which RDBMS? VtC the recruiter "Unclear what you're pimping"

5

Paul White

2

A: Can SQL Server system tables be defragmented?

Based on guidance from Aaron's answer as well as additional research, here is a quick write-up of the approach I took. From what I can tell, the options for inspecting fragmentation of system base tables are limited. I went ahead and filed a Connect issue to provide better visibility, but in the...

Some cool stuff there.

Andriy M

12:52

@Phil "Too broad"

dezso

13:12

I am really sorry to say, but this is absolutely not an answer, viewed from any side:

-3

A: Time sheet, rates, date dependent

Microsoft SQL and Azure SQL now support temporal tables which is designed to let you query and compare data for specific points in time. Changesets basically. It's also extremely simple to set up and use within existing MSSQL databases.

it contains technical inaccuracies, yes, and it does not answer the question at all

Paul White

@dezso Question:

>I am trying to figure out the best database design for the following

Answer:

> Use temporal tables in SQL Aure.

What's the issue?

dezso

@PaulWhite that the OP is after design suggestions

are temporal tables available in Azure already?

Paul White

@dezso Well that's a design suggestion right there. I get that you don't like the answer, so down vote it, comment to suggest improvements, or critique it. Vote to delete when you get that privilege, but if you flag is NAA and it's any sort of answer at all that can be rescued via editing or whatnot, you're flags are at risk of being declined. Especially against a new user that cannot be expected to know all the rules straight off the bat.

@dezso Yes

42

A: How do I properly use the "Not an Answer" flag?

What is the Not an Answer Flag? The Not an Answer flag is a moderator flag that community users can use to notify moderators that a posted answer is not an answer, and should be deleted. What is the purpose of the Not an Answer flag? To identify attempts by community members to use answers for...

dezso

13:28

@PaulWhite in this case the flag should be renamed as 'Does not look like an answer flag'

Paul White

@dezso Propose a change on meta SE. Let me know how you go :)

dezso

@PaulWhite I am slowly learning to not try stuff that make no sense

Paul White

Dammit the popcorn is already in the microwave!

dezso

and I promise I stop flagging non-answers as such if they contain human readable characters :D

Paul White

Don't be daft about it. Follow the guidelines in the FAQ and your flags are highly likely to be accepted.

BTW re: "preview"

>Services running in preview mode are made available for testing, evaluation, proof-of-concepts and reporting issues and feedback to Microsoft.

dezso

13:34

(we had a classmate at university who could produce very long blahblah about unknown topics - using the relevant words here and there, but essentially not answering exam questions)

Paul White

It also generally means it's cheaper.

@dezso He I would delete.

dezso

@PaulWhite those apparently do not fit my mind (in some cases it's very clear, so I was half joking above, see the smiley)

Paul White

@dezso Oh then in that case :D

Mark Sinkinson

@dezso yes...I think...

Max Vernon

14:40

@AaronBertrand -> Aaron "Vader" Bertrand

Morning, @jcolebrand ! been a while!

jcolebrand

Hola

Paul White

Dammit.

@jcolebrand Hi! waves

Lamak

@PaulWhite don't be so angry just because @jcolebrand is back

jcolebrand

@Lamak you say that like I left

Paul White

Timing is everything in here.

I have updated post to be clear — Muhammad Muazzam 2 mins ago

Not sure you did, actually ^^^

jcolebrand

14:45

I keep this tab open in my browser every day

Paul White

Lurker.

jcolebrand

Generally, yes

swasheck

@jcolebrand what's the highest number you see in the little parentheses

jcolebrand

Which parenthesis?

swasheck

15:01

@Adeptus attempt to create a unique key with check

@jcolebrand in the tab (and yes ... i meant parenthesis)

Max Vernon

uh-oh: meta.dba.stackexchange.com/revisions/2481/3

wBob

@PaulWhite Another dead end on that WHERE CURRENT OF post. Doh!

Paul White

@wBob Oh really? Let me look.

wBob

@PaulWhite It's nearly as bad as the other one, with the possible exception that CLR opens up some options for them.

Paul White

@wBob Oh ha ha. I failed to notice you were not using a view. Did you try it?

Oh that is quite amusing, sorry.

giggles

wBob

15:11

@PaulWhite Yes it's scan-tastic unfortunately lol. Chasing a mirage there. You can still have view, trigger on the table, that works, but OP isn't 100% clear on why view is required.

Well at least we've had some CLR practice : )

Paul White

Bit sad really. I thought someone had finally found a use for a CLR trigger.

Max Vernon

@wBob I enjoyed seeing it written in VB.

Paul White

Goodness me yes, let's not forget the VB

swasheck

@MaxVernon link?

wBob

@MaxVernon Heh you like VB? I used to be on ok VB6 programmer but haven't touched it in years. And yeah, it's off the CV now : )

@PaulWhite Victoria Bitters?

Paul White

15:14

1

A: SQL Server using index scan instead of seek when updating a view that has an INSTEAD OF UPDATE trigger via a cursor

I'm not sure if this will fit your requirements, but I did get a CLR INSTEAD OF trigger to generate a seek plan. The full repro is here, but the basic CLR trigger is as follows (excuse the VB, feel free to convert to c#: Imports System Imports System.Data Imports System.Data.SqlClient Imports S...

wBob

I need one now.

Paul White

@wBob Ugh no. Not my thing at all. Tastes of kangaroo and koala.

wBob

Although it is, lest we forget, St. Patricks' day.

What's SO code for a Shamrock emoji?? : )

swasheck

IRISH WHISKY

Max Vernon

@wBob I write a lot of stuff in VB. I find it much more satisfying than writing in C#, but I really like the terseness VB is known for.

Paul White

15:15

Which one gets upset about the 'e'? Scots or Irish?

swasheck

@PaulWhite nope. i'm all confused

wBob

@MaxVernon OK cool.

swasheck

> American and Irish liquor producers (and copy editors) tend to favor the spelling WHISKEY, while Canadian, Scottish, and Japanese producers (and copy editors) tend to favor (or should I say, favour) WHISKY.

Max Vernon

@wBob and once VB or C# is compiled into ISL its the same anyway.

swasheck

thekitchn.com/whiskey-vs-whisky-whats-the-di-100476

@MaxVernon it's compiled into a terrorist organization?

wBob

15:17

@MaxVernon Of course. I thought there were still some differences though?

Paul White

@swasheck Thanks.

2016 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results

Kaitlin Pike on March 17, 2016

The results of the largest and most comprehensive survey of the programmer workforce are here: the 2016 Stack Overflow Developer Survey.

^ For @MaxVernon

Max Vernon

@wBob there probably are some. I imagine that's only really important to the purists though.

thanks, @PaulWhite

swasheck

> JavaScript remains the most popular programming language in the world.

this explains why most code sucks, these days

Paul White

> Visual Basic is the most dreaded language.

Max Vernon

VB beats WordPress for god's sake. Now that's bad.

wBob

15:19

Can I open a chat room with the user on that question? I'm interested to see if trigger on main table, but view for cursor is still an option.

swasheck

@PaulWhite yeah. but js sucks because everyone gets a hardon for their favo(u)rite "framework" ... no actual code is written. hipsters just bloviate about their react/angular crap

Paul White

I grew up on Basic then moved to VB before discovering C#

Max Vernon

@wBob you can give a try, why not!

wBob

<< chat-room n00b

Paul White

@wBob You can. Or I can create one for you.

wBob

15:21

<<-- at least, chat rooms associated with specific questions n00b

Max Vernon

@PaulWhite I learnt BASIC on a blackboard in 1981. Didn't even have a machine to try it on.

swasheck

@PaulWhite Basic was fun. i still remember playing Gorilla when i should have been doing some engineering work in high school

@MaxVernon yukon territory?

Paul White

@MaxVernon Ha cool. Was Vic-20 CBM BASIC for me.

Max Vernon

"Those were the days, I tell you. If you tell the youf of today, the don't believe you!"

Paul White

@wBob Yeah I'm not sure there's any specific option for that. You just go to their chat profile and click 'create a room with this user' or something like that. Quite happy to create a room for you if that's easier.

I remember saving up for a C-64 and wondering how I'd ever use 64KB RAM.

jcolebrand

15:25

@swasheck Do you mean on missed messages?

Max Vernon

@PaulWhite yah, I did that for a Radio Shack coco. It seemed like such a HUGE amount of RAM.

wBob

@PaulWhite Yes please, I can't seem to find that option. Sorry!

Paul White

Yuuuuuuuuuuuuge

swasheck

@jcolebrand yes

jcolebrand

@swasheck meh, I never bother to check that, I just glance at the backlog from time to time

Mostly I'm here so pings work

Max Vernon

15:27

montypython.net/scripts/4york.php

Paul White

@wBob Done.

@swasheck I had a 42 this morning.

But that was mobile chat.

wBob

@PaulWhite Thanks

swasheck

@PaulWhite were those pings or just missed messages in general?

Paul White

@swasheck Some missed, mostly pings I was here for, but on my laptop. Mobile chat doesn't synchronize it seems.

swasheck

15:40

play.google.com/music/m/…

Paul White

16:14

Anyone know the MySQL CASE syntax?

Like CASE WHEN product_client.client_id IS NULL THEN 'Global' ELSE 'Client' END? (for SQL Server) — Paul White ♦ 13 mins ago

Lamak

@PaulWhite should be the same?

Paul White

@Lamak Thanks.

Lamak

but, I mean, it's MySQL so...

Paul White

16:26

@Lamak There was a PHP thing, but that was very helpful, thanks.

ypercubeᵀᴹ

16:47

@PaulWhite the same as SQL Server

ypercubeᵀᴹ

16:59

@PaulWhite Ha! I think I spent about 50-100 euros (actually the equivalent in drachmas) for a 16K memory extension. The original machine (made in Taiwan) had only 16K and 15.3 was used by the OS (i.e. BASIC)

> Memory: 761 bytes free

I was jealous of both my friends. The one with the 48K spectrum and the other with the C64.

Paul White

17:29

Same here, except I couldn't afford the expansion pack.

ypercubeᵀᴹ

17:40

@PaulWhite You mean for Vic I guess. I had a rather shity thing no one knew about.

Had the same cpu as Scpectrum though, Z80A.

Paul White

@ypercubeᵀᴹ Oh yes sorry I did. There was 16KB I think that went in the cartridge slot.

-19

A: Please can we have markdown tables on dba.se

At this point we have no plans to extend Markdown syntax to support tables. The extension itself isn't the hard part. The display of tables in posts would be fairly hard to get right. There are a few extensions already (like what PHP Markdown does), but the syntax isn't very intuitive, and it's ...

Potentially exciting news @JackDouglas ^

Max Vernon

18:04

@PaulWhite in 6 to 8 months

or is that years. I'm not sure.

Paul White

Better than never. Currently status-declined

Max Vernon

most certainly better than never. I love the work Jack did to format tables using javascript.

Paul White

Yeah very impressive.

Jack Douglas

@PaulWhite yippee!

Paul White

@JackDouglas I know! :)

Jack Douglas

18:13

especially good news because CommonMark doesn't support tables by default so I thought this was years down the line...

Thank you! Even without an ETA this is really encouraging :) — Jack Douglas ♦ 6 secs ago

Paul White

Mass down-vote reversals on meta!

Lamak

18:53

@JackDouglas that's adorable

Max Vernon

19:10

> 0
down vote

I'm so extremely lost on 4NF it's not even funny. I've been reading on it for about a literally days and, except for about 15 minutes ago, I wasn't sure that I had even broken the surface. I think I might have just had the light bulb moment, but given the difficulty I had on this, I'd appreciate some confirmation.

I've had moments just like that.

Max Vernon

19:26

> If any fluent tripemonger ever tells you they want to Understand your problem and Help you with it, run like bloody hell. Or whack them in the face with a rusty shovel.

James Lupolt

Tripemonger?

A_V

Hello !

Got a SQLserver question, when you install sqlserver patches do you need downtime during the installation ?

swasheck

@A_V depends

@JamesLupolt one who sells sheep guts

A_V

sqlserver 2008, installing service packs.
I plan to reboot the server at a later time to complete the installation

Is such thing blasphemy?

Max Vernon

20:07

I'm crying here. I finally found out where "it'll be ready in 6-8 weeks" comes from.

@A_V That Depends™

Tom V

427

A: The Many Memes of Meta

Meme: 6 to 8 Weeks Originator: Jeff Atwood First Heard: May 13th, 2008 Cultural Height: In about 6 to 8 weeks Definition: The time estimate given "off the top of my head" when the Stack Overflow team has only a vague idea of how long a task will take because they have little-to-no formal sche...

Max Vernon

yes, but that definition is no good. It's not funny enough.

@MikeFal - an edit to your post

A_V

I wonder if that answer helps me, I guess it depends

Max Vernon

20:26

@A_V you're catching on nicely.

to be somewhat helpful - is this a production critical box? are you going to wait 5 minutes or 5 years before rebooting? Have you tested this procedure on a non-production box that approximates the production box?

did you install SQL Server related patches? Is this a Failover Cluster installation? Do you have mirroring?

Tom V

aka, unclear what you're asking :)

Max Vernon

precisely

Tom V

@PaulWhite I wish I could upvote that again

Except I can't because of https

A_V

Well, in this environment it's quite complicated to reboot servers

the plan is to install the SQLserver patches then have the people who take care of windows patches do their thing and reboot

Tom V

@A_V So patching isn't? In what way?

A_V

20:31

we kind of "hitch hike" on their windows patches to reboot the server

like the next day

Installing the latest service pack available on SQLservers

We have sqlsrv2003, 2005s, 2008s, 2012s

dozens and dozens of servers

Tom V

So you haven't planned a maintenance window where everybody does their thing?

A_V

There are a million maintenance windows, one for each server. Chaos reigns.

Tom V

And you don't have VM snapshots or other backups to roll back when things go wrong and people are working on the systems as we speak?

A_V

Oh there are snapshots for sure, also we have tape backups of last 7 years

Tom V

yes, but if you can't reboot after the SP install, it must mean people are working on it right?

so if tomorrow you find out it's been botched, what do you revert to?

A_V

20:34

No, it means I have to ask authorization to reboot and it'll take for ever to do for every single server

it's easier to "hitch hike" someone else's reboot

Optimization is not key here

ypercubeᵀᴹ

Does anyone know of an "object-relational" DBMS?

0

Q: primary and foreign keys used in object-relational table

Currently im designing a relational database with multiple primary and foreign keys into an object-relational database, and was wondering if it ok to use primary and foreign keys in an object-relational table, even when using object references?

database-design foreign-key primary-key

A_V

Some form of abusive documentation prevails

Tom V

@A_V but you didn't need authorization to install an SP?

A_V

@ypercubeᵀᴹ isn't Oracle database an object-oriented database ?

Yes but an authorization that impacts no reboot will not be as hard to obtain

reboot = downtime = bad

Tom V

I'm not aware of all the details, but if you hitch-hike a reboot, to me it sounds like you should've hitch-hiked the patching too (hey, I'll call you when I'm done so you can install your updates)

A_V

20:39

This makes a lot of sense, it'd make me so happy if it did in this system.

Those reboots are "pre-approved" so there's no way the person who does them wants to change anything to their setup we have to come up with a thing of our own

Tom V

Monkey management rules I guess

A_V

Making work completely documented ends up like this

Tom V

No it doesn't

Following stupid rules does

If shortcuts like this work given the rules, there is something wrong with the rules

Max Vernon

@TomV amen brother

Tom V

"hey you can patch a server, but you can't reboot it afterwards when needed so we prefer a possibly unstable system for a while" make no sense at all

Max Vernon

20:42

we have 250+ instances... believe me you want to automate patching.

Tom V

@MaxVernon Thanks for the support brother :)

Max Vernon

@A_V - if you're looking for any of us to say "sounds like a good plan", you're asking the wrong bunch of people.

Tom V

@MaxVernon Yea definitely

Max Vernon

you need to ask management if that works.

Tom V

"I'll patch 250+ instances in the shadows and hitchhike on the windows patch window and hope nobody notices"

makes no sense

So yes I'll call that blasphemy

James Lupolt

20:46

@swasheck Sounds tasty

Mike Fal

@MaxVernon Yeah, no worries. That's an old script. :)

Tom V

@JamesLupolt It is, but it looks gross

Max Vernon

@MikeFal cool

sorry for the interruption!

swasheck

shake it shake it shake it salomé

Max Vernon

@JamesLupolt another word might be "bullshit spewer". Or "one who trots out eloquent and insincere rhetoric every oppportunity"

Tom V

20:53

@A_V you know why it asks for a reboot? The installer couldn't update the files that were in use, so it updated the files that weren't in use. So you could be running a mix of dll's that are the new version and dll's that are the old version

How does that sound to you?

swasheck

@TomV like an adventure

Tom V

@swasheck but we're not playing "days of the tentacles" :p

ypercubeᵀᴹ

@TomV Like this:

2

Tom V

It looks like playing leisure suit larry on production

The rules just like me for my... Twiggy Style

Max Vernon

@ypercubeᵀᴹ perfect

Tom V

21:01

@ypercubeᵀᴹ I bet this setup has been in UAT for a couple of weeks so it's been deemed OK to promote

Borderline insane is what I'd call it given the info provided

Lamak

@TomV maniac mansion, how many memories

ypercubeᵀᴹ

I imagine the ---installer--- guy half way through changing pants down but couldn't find an image.
> Can I stop the hatches to change my pants now, please?
> Sure, but please go ahead for a while. I'll let you know when we have a window for that. Just keep playing till then.

Max Vernon

@ypercubeᵀᴹ lol

idioms.thefreedictionary.com/caught+with+pants+down

Tom V

@ypercubeᵀᴹ Or the installer saying "hey there are pending reboots", so the next guy gets blamed by the managers

@Lamak I see you had no problem decripting that :)

Lamak

I'm getting better at it

Tom V

21:48

@Lamak Good for you, you might make it some day

Lamak

I sincerely hope so ;-)

Tom V

:p

/trumpstyle

Lamak

@TomV are you gonna start speaking as an 11 years old too?

Tom V

@Lamak At least I won't start barking :D

it's insane, hilarious clinton and trump

Lamak

yup, insane indeed

Tom V

21:52

the dumbing down of politics has reached a level I'm not sure I approve of in the US

Max Vernon

Choice "A" or choice "B". Screwed if you do, screwed if you don't. The only sane choice would be Sanders, but there's no way he'll be allowed to be on the ballot.

Tom V

you pick 1.Pest or 2.Cholera?

Max Vernon

lol

Tom V

@MaxVernon I'm not even sure it'll be funny once the outcome becomes reality

But hey, that's the downside of democracy, the less lucky during the genetic lottery get to vote too, and are often more in numbers

Max Vernon

@TomV it'll most definitely not be funny. As a Canadian, we're preparing for an influx of smart people.

@TomV purely by definition, 50% of the people are below average intelligence.

The Heap™ Consultancy is clearly exempt from that statement.

Tom V

21:57

@MaxVernon Bah, If you count @billinkc and @Lamak and consider some to be undecided you don't know

/jk

Max Vernon

realizing that point made me so much less stressed when driving. the answer to why some people are such stupid drivers is simply because they are stupid.

Lamak

@TomV totally fair

Tom V

@MaxVernon You and I off course are clearly on the upper scale

Max Vernon

well, clearly.

am I wrong about this? I don't think so, but the lack of any upvotes is making me wonder. dba.stackexchange.com/a/131306/10832

I'm not worthy without unicorn points. ;-)

Andriy M

Partly (perhaps to a large degree) the reason for the lack of votes may be because the question's got an accepted answer, so not many eyes get/choose to open it.

Max Vernon

22:06

@AndriyM I guess that's a good point.

Tom V

@AndriyM That, and DTC doesn't get a lot of love. I for one admit I don't know jack crap about it

But I'll upvote for effort and detail

Max Vernon

thanks!

Tom V

@swasheck Thanks for making me put on achtung baby again, I was a steward during a U2 concert when younger and it was one of the best things I was ever paid for

swasheck

@TomV gladly

Tom V

@swasheck I couldn't believe at the time people would pay me to attend concerts

It helps if you're 2m tall I guess

It also reminds me of a joke I didn't make but another steward did

but I won't repeat it as it might not be appropriate :)

and the joke wasn't at the U2 concert but at the F1 race @francorchamps, but the steward stuff was a great expercience

swasheck

23:59

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The Heap™ – Consultancy ©®