The Heap™ – Consultancy ©® - 2017-08-07 (page 1 of 2)

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3:55 AM

Q: "Can not start the mariadb.service in the 3th node" Those 3th nodes can be a bugger. Especially on Frinesdays.

3 hours later…

6:29 AM

@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells It's a better class of bollocks though

1 hour later…

7:30 AM

morning

Morning

2 hours later…

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

9:08 AM

Morning

howdo

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

Fair-middling.

How's life working for the gnomes?

one day closer to retirement

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

London makes me feel like that too.

I've never seen so much gamesmanship in one place as on my current project.

One day away from youth

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

9:16 AM

I feel this place is in urgent need of a spot of percussive stakeholder management.

Or, at least, certain of the locals.

@McNets That receded into the mists of time some, er, time ago

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

What is this 'youth' you speak of?

Can't assure, I barely remember it

@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/kb7eew/…

A more general view of business users google.ch/search?q=loudest+monkey+smallest+balls

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

@McNets A lot of folks say that about the 1960s too.

9:20 AM

@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells Yeah, but it is due to LSD

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

Or, in a more gender-neutral way - Just 'cause you've got a c#nt doesn't mean you have to act like one.

Service delivery manager is just a human email forwarding service

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

@TomV There's a saying about project managers:

In order to understand the value of a good project manager you first have to see the damage done by a bad one.

@TomV is that your job title? Before I jump in mullet first...

No I'm just dealing with one today

SDM asks me something, forwards my mail to their dba "can you look into this", forwards her reply to me "this is the feedback of our dba can you comment", forwards my comments to the dba

ad nauseum

9:28 AM

A corporate non-job.

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

@TomV Let me introduce you to the joys of Acceptance criteria.

When you have stakeholders that do this sort of shit you need to outline exactly the actions you want taken, e.g.
Investigate issue X
Propose a solution and don't bother me until you have finished the investigation - except to call me if you have any questions.
Once you have a solution, write up an email detailing what you have done and sendit to me, my line manager and any other relevant stakeholders.

The acceptance criteria for the initial ticket are that all three items are met.

Specify the acceptance criteria clearly and don't let them close the ticket until they have met the acceptance criteria.

@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells Except this guy thinks he can replace a real issue tracker so there aren't any tickets

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

Then email him the acceptance criteria and escalate with his line manager if he fails to deliver.

However he's tracking it, make the acceptance criteria explicit and make his life miserable if he fails to deliver on those criteria.

If he tells you to stop treating him like a child then tell him to stop acting like one.

'We expect you to take some ownership of the process. You're just fobbing your job off onto your customers and wasting everybody's time.'

I've had to start doing that with other teams on this project as there are a couple of office politicians in key positions.

You can also start your own issue tracker. Call it a 'RAID Log'. This can just be a spreadsheet. Start summarising outstanding issues in appropriate meetings.

One thing I find is that something in writing always beats talk.

2 hours later…

11:13 AM

1

Q: Slow access to JSONB column

I have the following query that accesses a JSONB column in the table datasets: select count(*), my_jsonb_column->0->'PARAM1' from datasets group by my_jsonb_column->0->'PARAM1' The explain analyze output is HashAggregate (cost=4778.92..5577.57 rows=53243 width=40) (actual time=1189.083..118...

postgresql json

dba.stackexchange.com/questions/182693/… needs more reopening love - question was clarified & has an accepted answer

Post Reopened by Philᵀᴹ, joanolo, Andriy M, Mikael Eriksson, Paul White♦
occurred 1 min ago

Thinking I should trade mark my name

@PaulWhite They must be mad.

But scientific

11:28 AM

@Phil doesn't your query need select * from cte order by level; to guarantee the order returned?

@Philᵀᴹ Question is still pretty unclear to me.

11:45 AM

Edited to make the example clearer (hopefully)

More explicit anyway

2 hours later…

1:40 PM

You know you've zoned out a bit when you look up and realize the TV has been playing a looped paid advertisement for a ladder for the last 30 minutes

Now replaced with a Jackie Chan movie

Ladder fight scene comes to mind

@ypercubeᵀᴹ Yeah but that was with a clearly inferior ladder :)

Nelson Casanova

99 days in a row... word on the street is, if i show up tomorrow, I get golden star...

Jackie Chan Famous Ladder Fight Scene (First Strike) HD Unrated Version

It is First Strike I am watching!

1:49 PM

It's the one where he calls the Cyrillic Ж letter double K, if I'm not much mistaken.

Good job I've seen it before eh

Faux Cyrillic, pseudo-Cyrillic, pseudo-Russian or faux Russian typography is the use of Cyrillic letters in Latin text to evoke the Soviet Union or Russia. It is a type of mimicry typeface. This is a common Western trope used in book covers, film titles, comic book lettering, artwork for computer games, or product packaging which are set in or wish to evoke Eastern Europe, the Soviet Union, or the Russian Federation. An early example was the logo for Norman Jewison's film The Russians Are Coming, the Russians Are Coming and more recently the logo for Sacha Baron Cohen's film Borat. In the music...

woo alright who's ready to do some sql

Cyrillic letter  Latin look-alike 	  Actual pronunciation
Ж   backwards and frontwards K 	/ʐ/ similar to "treasure"

user image

1:57 PM

That's the scene

shouldn't they be undocumented weapons?

@AndriyM So many weird coincidences this morning I had to check behind me for a Heap webcam

2:37 PM

Ladder scene in progress

2:49 PM

18

A: How long should I wait before deleting a closed question?

I hope that we can converge on a policy on how long a question should remain closed before being deleted. For the majority of users able to vote for deletion, there's an enforced waiting period of two days. For things so bad they need to be deleted sooner, there are spam/offensive flags (and...

3:07 PM

does anyone want anything from alaska?

Hi. How is it possible ? I got 2 inner joins (without ON right after them) and the query still works :

SELECT distinct mes.Supplier
            FROM Payments_PaymentOrder_Claims ppoc
                  INNER JOIN WebERP_Claims.dbo.Claims_Claim_Data ccd
                  ON ppoc.ClaimID=ccd.Claim_id
                  INNER JOIN weberp.dbo.APP_Policy ap
                  ON ap.Member_ID=ccd.Member_ID
                  INNER JOIN WEBerp.dbo.App_Policy_Groups apg
                  ON apg.IdPolicy=ap.IdPolicy
                  INNER JOIN WebERP.dbo.App_Policy_Types apt  <-----
                  INNER JOIN weberp.dbo.MasterEntity_Suppliers mes  <----- ON mes.MasterEntityId = apt.MasterEntityId AND …

INNER JOIN ---> INNER JOIN

that's perfetctly valid syntax

@sp_BlitzErik If I move the other ONs it doesn't work

brentozar.com/archive/2015/05/forcing-join-order-without-hints

sqlblog.com/blogs/joe_chang/archive/2014/04/02/bushy-joins.aspx

Thanks :)

3:18 PM

That's the fourth time that question has been answered in this room

I'm sorry , I didn't see prev questions. my bad.

@RoyiNamir also: What does the position of the ON clause actually mean?

@RoyiNamir No reason you would. Just remarking on it. It confuses people.

hm I answered it once, sort of, on SO of all places

Thanks Paul. Is it possible to get a reference to your answer for this topic ? (I will search , but I hope I'll find the one you intended for me to read),

It's not great but stackoverflow.com/a/5203891

The one @ypercubeᵀᴹ linked to is the one I like best

Also Erik's links of course

The keyword to search for in this room is "bushy"

3:26 PM

this question is a disaster

0

Q: Migrating Binary (IMAGE column) data into a file, during data migration

We are migrating data from our client to our databases. They're using binary data to store their files. We here, use to store the file patch on a string, and then point the correct file. During the migration we are using insert into select (it will happen just one time) we would like to impor...

sql-server sql-server-2008-r2 varbinary

heh heh heh

@PaulWhite yeah, I like that one, too. I had started writing an answer, to highlight some minor points, but never got around to finish it.

@ypercubeᵀᴹ It really gets to the heart of the issue like nothing else quite does for mine

in your opinion is that sort of syntax too brittle?

@sp_BlitzErik Without the hint?

yeah, of course

(i think hints are too brittle, fwiw)

3:35 PM

@sp_BlitzErik Yes I think so because it doesn't come with a guarantee.

I'd probably always look to rewrite it so it was clear and guaranteed.

Unless it was for some sort of competition or something

Or to confuse people in a code review

Goodness me there's sp_OA* methods in there as well

@sp_BlitzErik Hints are pretty much always a sign of failure

like looking at spinlocks

for a while i was thinking about writing a presentation called "how to win plans and influence joins" but every other slide would have been asterisks

That's not a presentation, that's a 5-year on-site class

@sp_BlitzErik yeah hook me up

@sp_BlitzErik I was thinking about writing a blog post on that. maybe I shouldn't

@JoeObbish baked alaska isn't a possibility

why are you going to alaska?

3:42 PM

this year's company retreat is a cruise to alaska/canada

huh

was it a bad year?

no, it's what brent's into

@sp_BlitzErik SQLcruise?

@PaulWhite no, different boats thankfully

k

3:44 PM

is it part of his 100 epic life goals?

> 99. throw erik overboard

3

some of the advertising around sql cruise is pretty great

"how to go without your boss knowing that it's a cruise!"

apparently alaska still has mosquitoes

@PaulWhite Well his profile says he's looking for challenges

now there's really no point in going

@TomV Looks like he found them!

3:50 PM

@JoeObbish do you live in a mosquito-free zone?

nice try

@sp_BlitzErik but is that really epic?

Lamak continues to dig himself into a hole...

I mean, he could just give you enough to drink....and let yourself do the rest

@JoeObbish you might be right

the allegation that i'm a sloppy drunk is probably the most offensive thought you've ever rendered to text

what am i, joe after his first shirley temple?

2

3:55 PM

edit to "first" please

personally I just assumed that you are immune to alcohol poisoning

Scrubs - Appletini, Please

Oh that's J.D. not J.O.

close enough

I regret nothing

yet

2 hours later…

5:54 PM

Fan holiday activities: assembling fans

what holiday requires fans?

Is this a forum I can ask an SQL question in?

sure, but you may have better luck posting it as an actual question on the site: dba.stackexchange.com/questions/ask

@ypercubeᵀᴹ As in, like, groupies?

@PaulWhite alas, no :(

6:02 PM

Erik, can I email you my question?

@ypercubeᵀᴹ Condolences.

@PaulWhite thnx. Due to some unfortunate events, we're stuck in Athens for a bit longer than we had planned. (@sp_BlitzErik)

Well that doesn't sound so bad

it's Erik's fault that you're stuck?

@JoeObbish only you can

6:04 PM

@MurrayHertz sure but we may tell you it's not a good fit for chat

Temperatures reach 38 at midday, lowest at night 24-25.

@ypercubeᵀᴹ Can we get that in Freedom Units?

I remember I used to use a tool that displayed a form so that any reachable database could be selected, like the initial prompt when you open SSMS. I don't remember if it's a StackOverflow tool, something from Microsoft, or a NuGet thing. Does anyone know what I am referring to?

@ypercubeᵀᴹ how many pornburgers is that?

@JoeObbish high: 100F, low 75.

6:05 PM

thx

Mar 22 at 14:09, by Paul White

Dollar Transfer Units

I mean a tool accessible from the C# level, that is.

@ypercubeᵀᴹ That sounds awful.

@sp_BlitzErik He may be more interested in knowing if you'll read/respond to it

whenever I sent Eric an email alarms go off in his house

and he immediately responds

that's why I don't email during office hours

@MurrayHertz I think I know which dialog you mean but haven't come across it as a stand-alone thing

6:08 PM

@MurrayHertz Like PowerShell?

@PaulWhite It's not too bad if you can stay at the beach for the hot hours (or in air-conditioned environment). Otherwise, it's a shock, the change from the UK temperatures

@JoeObbish That's very considerate

@ypercubeᵀᴹ Yeah I can imagine

They had high at 17 in Oxford today (that's around 60F for the yankee squirrels)

I'm not a squirrel

Not Powershell, it was something like a package that created a custom winform control that had prompts for the servername and database name, just like the opening dialog on SSMS.

6:15 PM

@ypercubeᵀᴹ That's the same as we had here today, and there are 3 weeks of Winter left

say hi to the penguins while you can

@PaulWhite looks like you have normal weather.

Certainly normal for us :)

@PaulWhite perhaps, but

Aug 4 at 17:29, by Paul White

chat's ok but results depend on who's around

@JoeObbish i need to shuffle your emails out of the way for important ones. inbox zero and all that.

@MurrayHertz Microsoft.Data.ConnectionUI.Dialog.dll

6:20 PM

Check out the big brain on Tom!

I also do index zero

but I'm 600-700 in the hole

I reply to approximately zero mails in my inbox if that counts

I starred that myself ha ha

Thanks, @TomV - that's exactly what I was looking for.

@PaulWhite I thought you don't get emails

6:22 PM

(I rewatched Pulp Fiction just recently)

@PaulWhite i have several responses from you, pants on fire

@sp_BlitzErik he has a rule for you

@JoeObbish Who would know?

You?

@sp_BlitzErik Yep you don't go to my inbox

@JoeObbish See above

6:22 PM

@JoeObbish i know, shuffling me out of the way for important ones. food chain. cycle of life.

goes to the trash am i rite

Erik has a special Gmail "Darling" label

AFAYK

do the wife's emails go there too?

@MurrayHertz No worries

@JoeObbish Whose wife?

6:25 PM

I just have mad Google skillz

@PaulWhite @_@

Nuts like a squirrel

Didn't realize he was such a player

@sp_BlitzErik I'm just encouraging our fawn to be more precise

Don't bring your wife to NZ

6:27 PM

uh joe

But no, my wife has her own label

Aug 4 at 10:43, by Paul White

Six giggly squeaky drunk kiwi women in one car is quite an experience

ha ha ha ha

how did you miss the fact that pablo blanco has a girl for every slot on the stick shift

<- rocks an automatic

6:28 PM

he's such a player that it's automatic

those still have different doodads

True

forward, reverse, neutral

whatever 1 and 2 are

the skull and crossbones that you hit when the fuzz is after what's in your trunk

@MurrayHertz oh I didn't realize it was a question on main. I'll answer that

drive, stop, stop with conviction

6:30 PM

But it could use some downvote first so it's elegible for reversal 😀😀

ha ha the idea of a family wagon with nitrous

@TomV No chance

-2

Q: SQL Server database chooser

I remember I used to use a tool that displayed a form so that any reachable database could be selected, like the initial prompt when you open SSMS. I don't remember if it's a StackOverflow tool, something from Microsoft, or a NuGet thing. Does anyone know what I am referring to?

why is murray using a picture of joe?

that's freaky

...because it Hertz not to?

i'm gonna mail you a box of spoiled vegetables

you'll have to throw them at yourself

6:36 PM

Clearly a shopping list question, I should close & delete it :)

@PaulWhite Then I would've wasted 3 minutes of my life without earning unicorn points for it

@TomV Sucks to be you

I don't own any nice clothes

@PaulWhite Story of my life

@JoeObbish socks to be you

6:37 PM

Welcome to Dad Joke hour

How's that? People who own nice clothes have to dress up for things

pass

PASS is mostly casual

pass is a few thousand people with tshirts tucked into underwear

I'm going to wear my wife beater to Erik's precon

Smart casual if you're presenting I suppose. Maybe business casual, whatever that is

6:38 PM

dumb casual all the way

I said I was going to be more welcoming

You're all mean for downvoting Murray's question just so Tom can get a badge!

dude I'm messing up the mobile chat thing

user image

2

hopefully we'll match

@TomV It was messed up long before you got to it

6:39 PM

> taking selfies

@sp_BlitzErik Goodness me

mine is classic

> having a phone with a camera

> having a phone with a screen

my phone technically has a camera

Someone printed your t-shirt backwards

6:40 PM

if I lose the bet it'll be a nice way to do malicious compliance

I'm more shocked at the choice of wall art

why is there a plant in a chair?

my kid painted it

chairs are for sitting in

because the chair is by the window

it's also a very old chair that wouldn't do well with a person sitting in it

6:41 PM

ok, I'll give you a pass on that one

@PaulWhite I'll upvote it as soon as it's eligible for a badge

Let me just check the mod manual about voting abuses...

there's some illegal voting ring stuff going on in here

No sorry @MurrayHertz we're just trolling

It would be the first reversal ever on this site though :)

@sp_BlitzErik Did they paint you as well?

6:43 PM

@PaulWhite Ha ha, I thought they were bruises

snort

@TomV brent has one on meta from a sontum question

(removed)

what's the criteria for reversal?

Provide an answer of +20 score to a question of -5 score

> Provide an answer of +20 score to a question of -5 score

6:47 PM

thanks

-5

Q: Why over 1.3TB desired memory for this query, it should have no memory grant?

SQL Server version is 2014 Developer SP1. Trace Flags 272, 610, 1118, 1206, 1222, 8048, 9481 are globally turned on. We had to turn on flag 9481 since the new cardinality estimator badly effected many of the query plans. The query has no sort, hash or paralellism. When I run the query no result...

sql-server query-performance sql-server-2014 memory

The +20 may be a stretch with that answer though

that one is somewhat close

because everyone downvoted a good question because they don't like the guy

@JoeObbish How do you know why people voted the way they did?

What surprises me is the lack of a check mark :)

@PaulWhite I didn't conduct interviews, but it seems pretty obvious based on the comments and how it was closed

despite the question having a ton of information and a posted answer

6:50 PM

@JoeObbish It's not unusual for people to downvote an unclear question

The downvote tooltip even has that word in it!

I complained about this before, we don't get a notification if the question is edited and forget to remove the down vote

@JoeObbish the first revision of that q did not even have a query. It was closed as unclear and reopened

it was closed in its current state

and reopened without any edits

To Meta!

@TomV i'll check back in but i have a limited attention span

6:52 PM

and the query isn't relevant to the question

22

Q: Notify users of a question they closed being edited or nominated for reopening

This is brought up by a chat discussion on Code Review. The idea being, when you Vote to Close a question (and it subsequently get's closed), you get a notification when the first Vote to Reopen is cast. This comes up because many users (on all sites) tend to downvote a question when they VTC i...

feature-request vote-to-close down-votes notifications vote-to-reopen

Similar request, no status from SE.

@JoeObbish if an OP reacts like this to comments/questions, what do you expect?

> Please stick with the original question, what is it that requires a memory grant in this query plan, there is no sort, hash, parallelism? Index seeks do not require a memory grant.

@EBrown Yes but in that case other users can revote on my close vote, they can't remove my down-vote in any way

So perhaps you have a point. Some may not have appreciated the OP's behaviour

he didn't do himself any favors, sure

but the question wasn't unclear

6:54 PM

@TomV I specifically mention "This comes up because many users (on all sites) tend to downvote a question when they VTC it, and sometimes those downvotes stick (especially on high-traffic sites like SO)." for that concern.

as far as I can tell, the only edit was taking the sql query out of the file that he posted

and adding it to the question

this conversation is too on topic for me

i'm going to the gym

ttfn~~

Mar 9 '15 at 15:47, by billinkc

Well, that's just like your opinion, man

Jan 27 '16 at 19:01, by Tom V

Because I tend to forget to retract it later on unless it happens to get on the front page while I am looking at it

;)

6:58 PM

"this conversion is so bad I'm going to go do manual labor for fun"

@ypercubeᵀᴹ You agreed with me by voting to reopen ;)

@JoeObbish I can't remember why. Perhaps because it had 2 answers. (I was joking with the "opinion", but the smiley was posted too far away)

You reopened it because you like the guy

@PaulWhite I dislike the guy

@PaulWhite (and @JoeObbish and @sp_BlitzErik) Since you're here, I have a question regarding SQL server that I've been working around in an ugly way: I have a database that's about 15G's, and the server has 32GB of RAM, SQL Server is the only application on it, is there a way I can tell SQL to just load the whole DB to RAM (obviously sync writes with disk) at boot? (SQL Server 2014)

@JoeObbish I was referring to Mr Cube

7:03 PM

@EBrown Erik is busy banging around weights and grunting

My workaround is to SELECT * FROM for every table when it boots, that usually has the desired effect for the most part.

But if I add or remove a table I have to modify the startup program that does that.

@sp_BlitzErik that meta q with the reversal has all kind of weird voting.

Do you mean keep everything in the buffer cache?

Anyway. That question has a super long and complex history of votes, reviews, comments and whatnot. Seems clear to me that the majority voted explicitly to close as unclear while leaving comments to that effect.

or you want a proper in-memory database?

HEKATON

is not one

so I'm told

7:04 PM

@JoeObbish Doesn't matter, it's high-speed RAM so it should be faster (for the most part) to load it to RAM on boot and run it from there.

PINTABLE in 3...2...1...

sigh

well I was going to say

I don't have performance issues in it, but that might be because I literally select all data as soon as it boots hoping it cache's the entire thing.

That you should upgrade to SQL Server 2000 and take advantage of DBCC PINTABLE

@PaulWhite Not sure if good or bad?

7:05 PM

but Mr. No Fun ruined it

@EBrown Unavailable since, what, 2000?

@PaulWhite No idea, I'm not a DB expert.

Both question and accepted answer have 15 downvotes.
The accepted answer has a single upvote (I guess from the OP).
The answerer did not upvote the question!
Two more answers at +23 and +19, not accepted ...

@ypercubeᵀᴹ The meta question?

3 mins ago, by ypercubeᵀᴹ

@sp_BlitzErik that meta q with the reversal has all kind of weird voting.

7:07 PM

Well yes

@EBrown My only real answer is to stop restarting the database

@JoeObbish Weekly windows updates.

that'll give you other benefits as well

What's your OS?

@JoeObbish Server 2012 R2

This database is mirrored between two servers, and they both reboot at least once a week (though not at the same time).

I'm sure that if you search for it you'll find lots of information about it

7:11 PM

@TomV Can you imagine the number of notifications that would be generated though?

Good point

Also there's a school of thought that an initially bad post deserves to retain some of its past

and should we also get notification after an edit if we have upvoted?

could all be opt in

@ypercubeᵀᴹ Well quite

7:13 PM

but I'm part of that school of thought

adding formatting to long wordpress posts is such a pain...

It really is. I used the WP editor exclusively once (this last time) and I'm not sure I ever will again

ouch

suppose it's a good experiment to try

I sort of assumed that's how everyone else did it

I thing I wrote a sentence and gave up

my big problem at the moment is no plugin support

they want $20 a month for plugin support

7:29 PM

@JoeObbish What sort of plugin do you need?

@JoeObbish they are going the Oracle route

@PaulWhite spoiler tags and better support for images would be nice

better code formatting

that was way longer than I thought it would be

also I always catch some stupid error immediately after publishing

@Lamak Oracle route would be selling individual plugins

7:52 PM

@JoeObbish well, yeah, and charging the previous amount times 1,000

I find interesting the term "lakh", from this suggested edit. Never heard of it before.

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