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12:21 AM
@SimonRigharts lol no
you wanna see harsh?
read this
24
A: Why use both TRUNCATE and DROP?

Nick ChammasNo. TRUNCATE and DROP are almost identical in behavior and speed, and everything else proposed here as an answer is incorrect. I am astonished at the number of falsehoods on this thread, but then again when I first read it some months ago I did upvote some of the answers myself. Why? Because ...

and read the comments on the now-downvoted (after my expose) answers to that question
I'm out
 
Later
I was originally going to phrase it "if you'd spent ten second looking at the page, the INSTEAD OF UPDATE link should've jumped out at you", but thought I probably shouldn't be snarky
 
 
2 hours later…
2:30 AM
@JNK "I try to avoid them since they can be a maintenance issue (i.e. index gets updated but isn't present on the actual table so may not get disabled when needed)" << I don't understand, help?
 
JNK
2:51 AM
@SQLkiwi - I've had issues before with slow inserts in a large table because of indexed views that someone else created. We have as part of our process programatically disabling NC indexes for inserts (monthly loads of 50-100m records for ETL). They had built some indexed views to solve some small corner case and didn't account for the ETL
So I'm disabling indexes on the table but not the indexed view which references the table and still gets updated when the new records are loaded
 
@NickChammas I found out Click Through Rate stats for the Twitter ad on UX. It's...not impressive meta.ux.stackexchange.com/ads/display/626
 
@JNK Thanks for clarifying - I didn't want to get into a discussion about what you meant on the question. It's not much more work to programmatically disable indexes on views too, but I do see what you are saying.
 
JNK
I guess its just an extra layer of things to check
and also we do a lot of dropping/recreating tables (we are kind of a DW) which doesnt play well with schema binding
 
@JNK Yep, everything is a compromise. If that COUNT(*) query runs many times per second, an indexed view might be a big win. In other scenarios (e.g. very heavy updates, infrequent selects) it would not.
 
JNK
2:56 AM
true, it all depends on context
 
@JNK And another discussion concludes with "it depends" :)
 
JNK
they all do eventually, @SQLkiwi
gnite all
 
3:19 AM
@jcolebrand @BenBrocka Ooh our DBA in Space one did well.
 
 
10 hours later…
1:13 PM
Quiet in here...
 
gbn
1:38 PM
Busy, busy, bees
 
:)
 
2:28 PM
@jcolebrand @JackDouglas Did we establish a guideline for the product/product-version tags e.g. sql-server & sql-server-2008 both being included on a post or just sql-server-2008 suffices? I see there are 5 suggested edits which are just adding the sql-server tag
 
gbn
seperate versions IIRC
because the solution will vary based on this (eg MERGE)
 
the edits are cases where the Q had sq-server-2005 and the suggested additional tag is sql-server, which seems pointless?
 
gbn
@MarkStoreySmith hhmm. dunno then
I don't edit tags much now: lots of other zealous folk doing it
SO tends to have both IIRC
 
@gbn While I remember... have you done anything with master data services in 2008/2012?
 
gbn
not a sausage
 
2:42 PM
Got a fair few points today. Yay
 
gbn
been losing IQ points with MySQL for last few months.
3
Started new gig yesterday
 
@gbn Congrats. SQL Server shop entirely?
 
gbn
Mixed SQL Server + A.N.Other
literally don't know: new company. no server. no database
brand spanking new database design etc. Woo hoo
 
@Phil Oracle man? You're in short supply here, stick around!
@gbn Greenfield application or new warehouse?
 
gbn
new OLTP (Gaming)
 
2:46 PM
Oracle. used to be a Sybase DBA, so I aim to start doing some SQL server too
 
@gbn Lucky barsteward
@Phil Very few sybase folk contributing
 
gbn
@MarkStoreySmith 'kin right. I'll be the one you'll read about when my successor posts to DailyWTF
 
I think the only people using it these days are banks that're scared of migrating off it
 
gbn
@Phil yep
 
The app I started off deploying was ported to Oracle in the late 90s because we were having major issues with Sybase - lock promotion was killing us on our busy huge tables. Kinda glad. <3 Oracle
 
3:14 PM
@MarkStoreySmith I just accepted all those edits before checking in here - we probably do need a policy (lets take it to meta!) but one good reason for double tagging is the 'top users' list for each tag
 
@JackDouglas Gotcha, makes sense
 
first time today :-)
 
gbn
@JackDouglas I wasn't going to mention "badge whoring"
 
@Phil Hi welcome to The Heap - great to have another Oracle guy on board :-) Do you know Niall Litchfield is (reasonably) active here?
@gbn you'll get them all in the end anyway :-)
 
gbn
@JackDouglas I'll get the 'Orable ones just after hell freezes over of course
 
3:23 PM
@JackDouglas Yeah, I saw some of his posts
@JackDouglas and thanks :)
 
3:51 PM
@Phil Simon was looking for some Sybase help last night.
@JackDouglas good reason; is there a meta post already about it?
and speaking of meta
2
Q: Should we create community ads for Microsoft Connect items we want to promote?

Nick ChammasIf yes, say which Connect item you want and why. Let's discuss this here so we can focus on creating the ads we already agree on.

 
Hmm, didn't post a question though
I'll help if he wanders back in here or posts a question
 
he's been in and out over the past few weeks
Oi @SimonRigharts, meet @Phil, another Sybase dude. Perhaps y'all can help each other out.
BTW Phil, you can see some starred posts on the right by Simon. Having fun with Sybase, this guy is. :)
 
4:24 PM
4
Q: Should we tag with all terms in a tree?

JoeI've noticed a couple of questions that have all of the tags: oracle oracle-11g oracle-11g-r2 Ideally, the tagging would support hierarchies, and know that 'oracle' is a broader term of 'oracle-11g-r2', so we didn't have to put on the redundant tags, but I don't think it currently does. So, ...

closest I can find
 
@JackDouglas Leigh's answer links to the tag wiki for Oracle on SO
it recommends tagging with oracle plus oracle-whatever-specific-version
 
@NickChammas @gbn mentioned thats how it works over there I think
have added a comment to Leigh's answer - I think and are enough without an intermediate tag
have voted up @jcolebrand's suggestion
 
but we do agree that both the root tag and version-specific tags are recommended per question, right?
 
4:39 PM
hey who what?
Just because I just got here :p
 
4:50 PM
@jcolebrand What?
 
eh, no yt for me, sort of a religious preference (aka I won't ever open them)
So @JackDouglas what do you think we should do on tagging?
synonymity?
Ask people to be more specific with their tags, and bounce low specificity?
 
5:27 PM
@NickChammas Yes. Some questions will not be specific to individual versions, and having generic tags will help searches, even when the answer is specific. If someone looks for 'Oracle' but there is no 'Oracle' tag on the question then it might get missed in search results.
Can you set up a synonym so a general tag such as 'oracle' is equivalent to all the specific version tags but the equivalence doesn't go the other way?
 
I don't think so, I was looking at that
the best I can do is point it at a current version or a specific version
if anything, we would point the more specific back to the less specific
 
@JackDouglas - what about something like below for the FAQ?
0
A: Opinions about merging the Business Intelligence proposal into this site

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWellsHow about with a developer question after the main introductory blurb: @JackDouglas - do you mean something like this? Database Administrators - Stack Exchange is for database professionals needing expert answers on all advanced database-related topics concerning either traditional SQL RDBMS or...

 
5:48 PM
@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells no (IIUC), meta-tags aren't allowed
3
Q: Implied tags (presence of tag A implies presence of tag B)

Matěj ZábskýHi, we already have tag synonyms, what about having also "single-directional synonyms"? For example: We have tags like C# or WPF. Both of these subjects are inevitably related to .net and should be tagged as such. But many people don't respect this and often tag C# related question only with C#...

aka 'implied tags'
@jcolebrand I think we should consider asking for to be blacklisted and only allow , & . I'm guessing the might be controversial though?
 
@JackDouglas why blacklist? create a synonym backwards
that way they can use it and it auto translates
 
@jcolebrand if we leave some on r2 will use it without thinking
they may not notice the translation
@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells that is better - but my main thought is that we should leave that bit out and address it after the BI merge. I can't think properly about two things at the same time :-)
Actually not so good even with 1
 
When do we need to talk to SEI about the merge? Do we need to say something? Isn't that going forward?
 
@jcolebrand Aarthi said change the faq first IIRC
Jan 19 at 17:47, by Aarthi
1) We'll entertain site name changes...so long as it's not just slapping on BI onto the current title, haha. 2) Adding the mod could probably wait until the next election, but we're not opposed to adding one pro-tem. Mostly, Word of God says that y'all are probably overthinking it :P 3) Let us know when you make it Officialness and we'll email all the people who followed/committed to the BI proposal. :D
Let us know when you make it Officialness
I guess they're saying they are already agreed
 
So what we need first before we update the FAQ is some meta Q to point to, saying that this is acceptable, this is not, etc. Example posts, effectively.
It's wednesday
 
6:00 PM
Jan 19 at 19:03, by Aarthi
> I'd suggest just doing the soft merge, then, and worry about the naming issue later. They should start with a meta post announcement and the appropriate FAQ changes. They'll want to make sure the FAQ doesn't "over sell" the change. FAQ authors have a tendency to do that: make the most reacent additions into the most prominent part of the site
 
I can help doing that over the weekend, we just need to list out what meta Q we need
@JackDouglas I think we agreed we need to make minor changes to the FAQ, and push everything else to meta, yes?
 
@jcolebrand Well technically even that can wait until after the faq changes and the merge - we just need the meta-meta question to be posted so we can link to it.
@jcolebrand I think so - @ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells can you live with that?
 
gbn
@NickChammas stackoverflow.com/a/9007859/27535 just added
that reCaptcha is tricky
 
6:25 PM
@JackDouglas I don't mind. The B.I. stuff is included in the draft FAQs and IIRC isn't any different between the two drafts anyway. If you want to deal with the 'development questions' issue separately I don't think it makes much difference.
 
6:38 PM
@JackDouglas Actually, are you just thinking of the introductory blurb about the scope and then a series of links to FAQs after it?
 
6:52 PM
I just love love love it when people reference the SQL92 standard without knowing what the fuck they're talking about. It's right here, fools! You can read it whenever you like!
 
@NickChammas reading is for losers
 
@jcolebrand Then I am a big loser.
 
gbn
@NickChammas I quote that often. You have any good examples of fuck-wittery? (form anyone)
 
@gbn Read the comments on this question. In this case I wouldn't call it fuck-wittery, but more so hand-wavey implications that are not supported by the SQL92 standard.
 
7:07 PM
@jcolebrand I've changed my mind after all that and have voted up Leigh's answer
 
@JackDouglas he more eloquently captured my intent. I concur with Leigh.
 
7:25 PM
@jcolebrand can you check Leigh's latest comment - I may be getting confused...
I rather hastily deleted your comment as 'obsolete'
 
lol, I was gonna say :p
I love that we can see them deleted, but can't restore them ...
 
@jcolebrand it's a tease
 
@NickChammas it really is
0
Q: Give moderators the ability to restore those accidentally deleted comments

jcolebrandViewing deleted comments was implemented, now what about being able to restore them? As far as I'm concerned, make it a simple button on the same form where we can see the deleted ones.

 
gbn
8:04 PM
@jcolebrand: "shut up! AWESOME" Is this some new street slang?
 
@gbn yes
 
gbn
@jcolebrand I'm getting old. I'll try it tomorrow, will logon from hospital to update you how I got on
 
@gbn lulzwut?
shut up! is an exclamation that I don't believe the thing you're saying. awesome means that it's cleverer
 
gbn
/me frantically reads urban dictionary
 
lmao
why frantically?
 
gbn
8:22 PM
@jcolebrand trying not to appear uncool or whatever the current jargon is
 
@gbn ha! As tho I were cool or used current jargon
I'm barely remembering scraps from the 90's
 
@gbn - jcole has lately been emitting many teenage-girl-isms
 
I have?
 
8:43 PM
22 hours ago, by Nick Chammas
@jcolebrand Why are these all questions?
 
@NickChammas that's not a teenageism
that's just a sign of lower self-esteem, which would coordinate with my failure for roughly a week to go and purchase my androgel (mostly because of insurance regulations here in the states combined with a recent shortage at that particular pharmacy)
 
 
2 hours later…
11:09 PM
holy ffffffffffffffffffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
Who knew troubleshooting the Oracle Intelligent Agent running on a 2-node Windows 2003 cluster using Fail Safe would be so much fun?
 

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