@RyanKinal One last thing before we part: I simply cannot understand moral relativity (that morals are determined by cultures/people over time). If that were the case then there is nothing wrong with what Nazi's did, it's right to the morals of their society, we cannot push them for it
It also doesn't make sense on a personal level - if I don't agree with what the moral practices of the society I'm in, then I shouldn't be punished for not following them. If that's the case then no one can punish others rightfully
500 years ago, owning a black person was societally acceptable. They were bought and sold as property. In today's society, this is considered a horrible thing to do.
It's obvious to us today, but it wasn't so obvious then.
And yeah, this may be perception - but even then, it's how we as a society perceive morality. It's functionally moral.
I can see that too. But, as in genetic evolution, I think the "fittest" ideas and morality survive.
If it's not a good idea, it won't flourish.
Pedophilia, for instance, causes trauma in children. Those children end up broken - emotionally unstable. People recognize this, and pedophilia is condemned, with good reason.
(If it's not obvious, I've spend a lot more time arguing morality than I have knowledge and truth.)
Anyway... beers with coworkers. I'll answer any pings eventually.
@RyanKinal I suppose an example of my reasoning would be a wrong answer that has lots of upvotes on StackOverflow. It may have 100 upvotes and 0 downvotes, even be "accepted" by the author, but if the answer itself isn't answering the question correctly then it's wrong no matter what. The community's decision has no effect on whether or not it is actually true
@RyanKinal ah Ryan. It's like I have a knife right through my heart for you. I wish you could see the world through my eyes - which is to see the world through God's eyes, though my vision isn't nearly as good.
I hear "I know nothing!" presented in the guise of education.
I hear "there are no morals!" presented in the guise of caring.
The systems you spoke of - people created those systems. They aren't just subject to them. The people ARE the systems. The systems are evil, because we are evil.
God says that revering Him is the beginning of all knowledge and that all the mysteries of knowledge and wisdom are in Him.
He says that deny His existence is to becomes foolish - lost.
This generation is not seeking knowledge or truth. Science isn't about discovery anymore. It's about denial.
People worship at the throne of their idol science.
People now believe that they have enough science to justify meaning and morality in a world they claim is accidental and without purpose filled with various types of meaningless stardust.
That isn't progress. It's insanity.
Ryan, you are meaningful; ultimately and eternally so.
You know this just as much as I do.
Jesus is unlike any "god" in history.
What God is said to be eternally perfect in all his attributes, creator of ALL things, to have revealed knowledge and morality to us, to perfectly love us that he created, to have left His heavenly throne to walk among us embracing a fully human nature, to have carried our punishment and death to the grave on our behalf, and to have risen from the dead?
> "The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference." Richard Dawkins [biologist]
> The way of a fool is right in his own eyes. Proverbs 12:15
Richard Dawkins says this, and then talks about the wonder, the mystery, the beauty, the excitement, and even - the gift of life.
A fool who is right in his own eyes.
Oh, to have my closed eyes opened by the King of Kings... I am thankful.
