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4:32 AM
@Hosch250 I think some of the reason we don't see tricky weapons like that is that, if you're in a range where you can stabilize a laser on the cockpit, you're also at a range where you have a whole host of rather powerful weapons available. Also, they have a whole host of rather powerful weapons available to use against your drone.
 
 
6 hours later…
11:01 AM
So... a recent chat with a liberalism right person lead to the interesting topic about AI practicing voodoo.
I wonder what happens when machines were taught to practice magic...
1
Q: Why would an artificial intelligence choose to learn magic?

user6760Set in distant future human and machine coexist amicably with each other, only a few men and women are able to apply magic in real world. How magic works The world is rich in philosopher's stone instead of fossil fuel, a tiny gram of this substance is sufficient to warp the fabric of reality a...

4
Q: What and how main technological breakthrough we have today could be replaced with magic?

SheraffIn my opinion, magic can lead to its very own kind of technology, possibly very similar to ours. If it is a kind of magic where you use one energy source to trigger one other event (like in The Kingkiller Chronicle by Patrick Rothfuss), then it actually is very similar to electricity and you can...

4
Q: What would a society with devaluation of labor due to widespread magic look like?

DariushLet's say we have a world where magic is so powerful that essentially all labor requirements are obviated - a single mage can build a castle in a day, instantly plant and later harvest a large field, in a matter of hours extract and refine all ore from a mountain, etc. They do this either directl...

8
A: Why would a magic world be stuck in medieval times?

BrythanTraditional feudalism was powered by the war-making abilities of the original lords. Essentially the serf's lord promised to keep the other thugs...err, lords from attacking, so the serf owed fealty. Lords thus started as those who could wield physical power. In a magic universe, it's reason...

65
Q: Must magic be tied to medieval tech?

Monica CellioMost settings with a magical component, whether this means wizards, magical races, or something similar, seem to be parked at a medieval level of development in terms of technology and society. Is this just because that's how the "high fantasy" genre developed, or is there some fundamental reaso...

One common way to bypass that thought requirement is if the magical component of reality is discovered a lot later in the setting of the story, thus allowing existing technology to evolve relatively unchanged and then magic joining the game
13
A: What's the smallest change to physics required to allow magic?

WhatRoughBeastYou might point out to her that she already does magic. Tell her to turn on a light. Can she explain how she did that? Have her turn on the TV, and explain to you how she can bring up images of people (even dead people, if she likes reruns) who talk to her. Get a copy of Dragon speech recogniti...

> The big problem with making magic scientifically usable is that it destroys science. That is, no experiment can be trusted: its outcome may be altered by magical means. With no experiments which can be trusted, the cornerstone of scientific endeavor, Poppert's falsifiability, becomes impossible.
Well then, use certain individuals communication with the magic to work out whether it is present in some setting, then it will become a variable in the experiment thus can be accounted for
People nowadays are even starting to tame thermal noise despite their inherently random nature, so why we cannot do the same for magic
I think the sheer unpredictability of outcome beyond any reasonable domain of discourse is the essence of magic
Magic has the power to modify the outcomes themselves as it sees fit
To elaborate, no matter how unpredictable a very complicated electric circuit is, it cannot e.g. produce black holes as an outcome. Magic is not bound by unlikely events, so literally everything can be an outcome
 
11:38 AM
> But Paradoxis also knows magic: It seems that sentient beings can influence their surroundings by a strange force. Some people are quite adept at it while others struggle with it. Its influences are innumerable and well-observed and documented: Molecules change their form, their temperature, their consistency. People can move and levitate objects, start fires, cool things down, speed up or slow down processes. What is interesting is that people doing magic need to "synchronize" their attempted magic with the environment, the time and location, with themselves and observers. They get in a
That's one of the most common ways to make magic intractable to science, by making the sample space so large and never repeats, thus forbid the assignment of probabilities, the only rule we can say is that "everytime it is done, some new thing happens"
> Magic could function in a similar way. Science can look at the effects of magic and describe how a sorcerer draws energy through the earth, but knowing how all of these things occur does not give one mastery over magic, any more than knowing the science of sound makes someone a maestro on the tuba. Magic can be described with science, but ultimately the practice of magic is learnt through decades of hard work and perseverance in shaping the mind and body of the magician to perform it.
This is another way to evade science by making the craft itself so individualistic that no prescribed procedure can be handled out to reproduce a given effect exactly
7
A: If magic is real, can it be true that rational scientific thought should exclude it?

KentWhat if the universe always works your way... But only for you? People tend to assume that rules define how everything works. That is to say: (Rules/Reality) -> defines -> (Magic/Emotions) For example, because of the exact position of every atom inside my head, their energy, and the set of ru...

(We will expand on this later when we present the proposed hierarchy of true magic)
> Which gets to yet another possibility, again going back to religions, that science is again studying effects where as magic could be effecting primary causes. In which case it wouldn't be that science couldn't study magic, it would just not be in a position to do so currently.
> One very fundamental assumption in scientific inquiry is this: the rules stay consistent. This is what allows us to make testable predictions and hence run experiments to determine how well our theories match 'reality'. Without this ongoing consistency, the scientific method cannot function.

The key to distinguishing magic from science, then, is to make the rules variable. In fact, if you describe magic as the action of pure, unfettered intention, the ability to make choices outside the framework of determined rules, then magic is literally the ability to either bend or break the rules.
> In a sense, the science that defines our predictable world is the very mindset that limits our access to magic. The art of magic and the challenge of the magician, then, is to harness will and bend the rules within this framework of reality, without getting swept away by the raw power and losing all trace of human identity in the process. This is the balance of the mage, whose grasp on reality is always tenuous at best, for when the world bends to your will, you run the risk of getting twisted up in it.
> Science can still classify phenomena and experiment upon magic, but can't reproduce it. For instance, there's no reason science wouldn't try to figure out how a massive, wingless dragon can fly. But eventually, they're only going to be able to record observations. Science would have no way of explaining the hows and the whys, and wouldn't be able to develop applications for their knowledge.
> Approach 2: Magic is completely individualized. One's personality and experiences determine one's magical abilities, but in a deep, complex way that isn't based on any observable patterns in brain chemistry. Even though a particular individual's magic may be analyzable, if that person's self-image changes in some drastic way, their powers may change accordingly.
(spoiler alert) That's the route walked by The House with a Clock in its Walls
> Option B: To steal a page from the SCP Foundation wiki, magic is un-studyable for memetic reasons. Any observation you make of how magic functions, you'll forget. Any notes you write down, you won't be able to read. Any footage you take, you won't understand- or you'll forgot what you saw as soon as you look away. The only aspect of magic that scientists are able to remember and retain is this memetic principle- the world can remember that it's impossible to study magic, but it forgets anything deeper.
Now that's an interesting one: Unable to form records of it
Put is simply, the scientific method works because:
In research design, especially in psychology, social sciences, life sciences, and physics, operationalization is a process of defining the measurement of a phenomenon that is not directly measurable, though its existence is indicated by other phenomena. Operationalization is thus the process of defining a fuzzy concept so as to make it clearly distinguishable, measurable, and understandable in terms of empirical observations. In a wider sense, it refers to the process of specifying the extension of a concept—describing what is and is not an instance of that concept. For example, in medicine, the...
And if you want really really really really really pure magic:
> Abandon the soundness principle of phenomenon in reality
> Make it unable to be analysed under an operational way (e.g. cannot probe it from the outside)
Abstract magic, the most minimal and the purest of all the true magic, is one that breaks every single thing we knew about science, logic and structural thinking in general
But because of that, its rules are unpredictable and thus unusable
What does it mean for a real phenomenon to be logically non true, I have no idea
It is the same as asking what does it meant for an existence that is nonexistent
 
12:15 PM
@Secret try reading The Magicians Trilogy. There's also a short story somewhere online that deals with that sort of thing
 
ah, they made that into a syfy tv series
It's also cool for being a rare title that places magic in a modern setting
 
12:50 PM
@AndyD273 Sharks and lasers too?
 
@Secret Also check out "The Laundry Files" series by Charles Stross. The whole magic system is based on computation. You can do magic in your head, but it's really dangerous because it attracts infovores which can eat away at the brain. The results are a lot like Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease. It's much safer to offload the computation onto computers. Likewise, extra dimensional intelligences can be summoned and bound to computers to act like an AI.
If you want a free short story to check out, Down on the Farm is available from Tor.com.
 
@AndyD273 Interesting, so machines will basically treat the use of magic just like any computational task
 
@Green The problem is that in order to get the sharks up high enough to use the lasers to scare away the birds you have to put them up on poles, and you can go through a lot of sharks that way. It's not any better in the water because the high voltage power cables keep getting tangled up, eventually one tears loose, and you end up with cooked sharks. Sharks are not an optimal laser platform.
 
@AndyD273 Very well played, sir. Very well played.
 
@Secret Yeah. I think that series would be right up your alley, and that story is a really good sample of the different concepts. If you check it out, I'd enjoy hearing your thoughts afterward.
 
1:06 PM
I should be able to put down on the farm into my train reading (because the lengthly travel time means a lot of time can be allocated to do stuff)
As for the novels, that might be harder to allocate time, but I can try
Creutzfeldt–Jakob disease (CJD) is a universally fatal brain disorder. Early symptoms include memory problems, behavioral changes, poor coordination, and visual disturbances. Later dementia, involuntary movements, blindness, weakness, and coma occur. About 90% of people die within a year of diagnosis.CJD is believed to be caused by a protein known as a prion. Infectious prions are misfolded proteins that can cause normally folded proteins to become misfolded. Most cases occur spontaneously, while about 7.5% of cases are inherited from a person's parents in an autosomal dominant manner. Exposure...
On an unrelated note, that is a prime example of something that we understood how it happens, yet has no cure
 
1:18 PM
You can't cure what isn't there any more
 
@AndyD273 And we don't know how to grow back brain tissue in anyway and certainly not how to rewire brain tissue that's still there but with messed up connections.
 
1:35 PM
Its just too bad that there isn't a way to filter out the prions and at least keep the problem from getting worse.
 
2:23 PM
@AndyD273 I seem to remember reading somewhere that prions are super stable versions of more common proteins. Somehow that extra stability makes them catalyze the conversion of normal proteins into prions.
It also explains why prions are so hard to kill. That extra stability means that one must use extremely powerful oxidizers to break up the bonds in the prion.
Maybe use this stuff to get rid of prions.
 
@Green I think that is the prion version of "nuke it from orbit, just to be sure."
 
I don't think I want to be around when you use that stuff, even if I do have prions.
 
@AndyD273 Yes! (And a highly entertaining read too!)
 
2:40 PM
Yes, I literally laughed over that article.
I should totally do the sulferic experiments on it.
 
2:56 PM
@Hosch250 Nice knowing you ;)
 
@Hosch250 there is probably some remote island in the middle of the pacific that we don't care all that much about.
I hear the bikini atoll is good for that kind of testing
 
3:13 PM
@AndyD273 Would this testing potentially help with the big floating garbage patch?
 
3:31 PM
@James only if you don't mind sterilizing the oceans. I mean, I kinda want to be in orbit with another destination to travel to if enough o2f2 was dumped in the ocean to make any difference with that.
Probably a much better option would be to come up with an X Prize to see about collecting and cleaning it.
 
Get a big big fishing net and scoop it up.
 
Saw a video about how the gulf oil spill clean-up from a little while back was kind of a mess, so someone made a prize like that, and the winning team had a system that was 4 times better than what was used.
 
OTOH, I bet LOTS of marine life are just using it as new habitat.
And then, you get those things in places you don't want them if you just start dragging the whole mass around.
 
Maybe best to just stop the problem at the source; pressure china into not dumping their plastic in the ocean. Sell them a couple plasma gasification plants. Solve their power problems and pollution problems all in one step.
 
3:52 PM
@Secret One of my favorite tools of the trade is to take advantage of the fact that operationalization can't work if you can't name the thing, or choose not to. As it turns out, science predicts that there are more possible states of the universe than there are words to describe them. You can have a lot of fun with that, and a bit of class theory from mathematics.
 
@AndyD273 Did you see the question on skeptics?
They claim that 80-90% of it is from boats and other sea-based sources.
 
@Hosch250 It's supposed to be the size of Texas. If that's true, you wouldn't be able to see the whole of it from 30,000 feet. It would take a long time to just fly over.
 
4:07 PM
@AndyD273 It's only loosely packed, though.
It's not like it's a foot deep all piled on each other.
 
@Hosch250 loose packed or not, that's a lot of area. Not to say that it can't be from ships, but if it was just a person throwing a wrapper over the side here or there it wouldn't get that big. More likely it's from "Ships" in the form of trash barges, hauling garbage out from shanghai and other coastal cities into the ocean and dumping it.
Or occasionally from something like that ship that had the shipping containers fall off, scattering legos and rubber duckies
 
 
3 hours later…
7:13 PM
I swear, my coworker has some kind of anti-technology field that she puts out. She goes through so many mice. They just fail in really stupid ways. She's great for QA though... If a program has a potential bug she'll find it.
 
@AndyD273 Maybe that's why she's so good at QA?
 
@Green No, she's not good at QA, she's good for QA. As in, if QA misses an obscure bug, she's the second line of defense.
 
@CortAmmon This makes sense to me as words and language are a form of compression mechanism for taking some fairly fuzzy states then turning them into finite symbols. Of necessity, you lose information in the process.
@AndyD273 Hmm, :) there's a subtle difference in where she is in the bug finding process but the effect is the same. I've had users like her too.
 
@AndyD273 I hope my company doesn't hire her :(
I've had to deal with so much crap today already, and most of it came out of my own fingers several weeks to a year ago.
And some of it is requirements changing on me.
 
We just had to replace her mouse again. It was inexplicably paging up to the top of drop down combo boxes any time you selected something off the list. But it wasn't scrolling to the top of anything else. Just combo boxes
 
7:26 PM
Weird...
I've had mice break a lot.
Usually they double-click instead of single click.
Or do crazy scrolling patterns.
 

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