The Factory Floor - 2018-07-12

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12:20 AM

@Freeze A plot element? If so, probably put it on Writing

@FreezePhoenix Are you using the number pad? If so, check to make sure your Number Lock isn't on.

if you are trying to talk to me and it's clear you are responding to me, please call me by "Pheo"

@FoxElemental I'm not using windows

Ah

This is... linux.

To be specific Linux armv7l

Ah.

Are you on Unix/LinuxSE?

No.

RPI.SE

Rasbian Jessie is the installed os.

12:25 AM

Oh, okay (Pretending I know a single thing about that.)

The one code I'm familiar with is LaTeX/MathJax, but really only LaTeX Mathmode

But that's pretty useful

Hey

my infinitive verb ending changes are kinda weird

Offer some advice please?

Here they are:

-ae -aeyom -aemvo -aemte -aeym -aeum -aeya -aemya -aeyme -uaem

stem: -aem

@Hosch250 Didn't you say you were going to look at this and write an answer/make a suggestion?

@Aify Stack Overflow has a Close Vote Reviewer Chat Room, don't they? If you're so gung-ho on closing TB/POB questions, maybe you should start one! On the other hand, SO usually has TONS of questions that need reviewing . . . so probably just keep it to The Factory Floor.

1 hour later…

1:58 AM

@FoxElemental The other answers covered my points.

Worldbuilding Meta

2:30 AM

0

Q: How do you ask a user to stop making unnecessary edits?

I just answered a question, and a few minutes later another user went on an edit spree, editing the question and three of the seven answers. They have enough reputation that they don't need their edits reviewed. Some edits were good, but some were completely unnecessary, or in the case of my answ...

discussion editing

5 hours later…

7:03 AM

@FoxElemental how did i get dragged into this

7:14 AM

@Aify Here is something you might want to get dragged into ;)

@FoxElemental We had a chat room to discuss close/reopen votes. It wasn't used and froze over time. So far nobody has asked to revive the room.

2 hours later…

9:11 AM

@Secespitus This is why you're my second place vote for mod :)

Thanks for pinging me in so I could vote on it

First vote went to Renan because it seems like he's more strict with the site rules/guidelines :) sorry

9:46 AM

@Aify I thought you would want to participate in that specific discussion and thanks for the vote :D

3 hours later…

Celestial Dragon Emperor

12:48 PM

Dang its been a long time guys! I got busy for a few days and have been focusing on a project.

How has you guys been? Btw later today I'll drop that discord link I finally got around to making it. It's actually a ccustom world (which to me means that the members help build it up from the ground up)

1:06 PM

Hey, @Cel. How've you been?

Oya

Owya doin?

@Hos oh, got it.

@Aify because you are often talking about closure of questions here . . .?

Hey @Fox

@Sece oh, okay. Didn't know. Thanks for the warning

Hi @Gry

We really do enjoy these shortened pings.

@FoxElemental It's not really a warning. We had such a room and it went okay-ish for some time, but activity dropped quite fast. It's okay to simply ask here in the Factory Floor from time to time when something comes up.

1:11 PM

Yep

1:23 PM

Umm, so, this is kind of weird, but despite not having another flag declined, I've been re flag-banned. Apparently one of my declined flags in the last seven days took place on July 2nd. Which is 10 days ago. I mean, what?

@Gryphon apparently you're creating controversy

@bendl Where?

@Gryphon ... Worldbuilding stack exchange? I was mostly joking

@bendl Oh, I thought you meant somebody was angry at me. I'm going to make a meta post about the weird ban thing.

@Gryphon I might suggest you take a look through meta though... I think something might be talking about yo

1:33 PM

@bendl Who?

@Gryphon I believe it's worldbuilding.meta.stackexchange.com/q/6403/627, talking about your edits to worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/a/117929/627 and other posts on that thread.

@HDE226868 Ah, thank you HDE. The edit's been rolled back, and, in hindsight, I agree that it was unnecessary. I had not realized that a meta post had been made, but the problem seems to be resolved.

@Aify You might also be interested in this discussion ;)

1:50 PM

@Gryphon Is the screenshot your complete recent flagging history? (I hope you don't mind asking)

@Secespitus No, it is merely flags declined in the last 7 days. Except that one of the flags is from 10 days ago. Which is the problem.

Because you need 10 flags in the last 7 days for this whole 10% and 25% stuff to even be apllicable as far as I can tell

Ah, I see. I just thought I might have found the problem.

@Secespitus I have 13 flags in the last 7 days.

When a flag was cast doesn't matter for the flag bad. It's when a moderator handles it that matters.

Celestial Dragon Emperor

@Gryphon I've been pretty good making a card for my gf's bday mainly.

1:52 PM

@HDE226868 Oh, so the flag wasn't handled until later, and that's why it still qualifies as having been declined in the last 7 days.

Yep.

That makes much more sense.

@HDE226868 I don't think that information is visible to normal users. Good to know.

Now, the really weird thing is, the flag ban disappeared for a while. I flagged a few posts, all flags were accepted, and now the ban is back.

For example, I flagged one post 16 hours ago, the flag was marked helpful, and the flag ban has now returned. For some reason.

@Gryphon Maybe you had enough accepted flags 11 days ago so that the 10-day-window was in the acceptable range yesterday?

1:55 PM

@Secespitus For your own flag history, mouse over the "declined"/"helpful" thingy, and it should tell you that . . . but you can't see anyone else's.

@HDE226868 Thanks. I didn't think I'd still learn new stuff about the flagging history interface from a user's perspective at this point :D

@HDE226868 Oh, I see it now. Thank-you HDE.

I can write this up as an answer, if you want.

Do you know when exactly the flag bad started?

'Cause your last flag was marked as helpful, which is odd.

That was the last flag we handled, too.

@HDE226868 I know. I was banned a few days ago (fairly), the ban expired, and now I've been rebanned. It's confusing me to no end.

@HDE226868 Unfortunately not.

Wait, which ban. The original one, or the more recent one?

Both, if you can.

The more recent one is more interesting, though.

1:59 PM

@HDE226868 I first noticed the more recent one about half an hour ago.

The previous one, I don't even remember the day.

Also, my last 6 flags have been marked as helpful. So what gives there?

I feel like there needs to be . . . better documentation on this. There's currently meta.stackexchange.com/a/175405/274942 and meta.stackoverflow.com/a/253497/6535830, which are okay.

But not great.

It'd be great if we could get a really good description of the actual algorithm they use.

@Gryphon Automatic bans are in general not disclosed to prevent people from gaming the system. At least that's for question and answer bans.

It's just the 25% threshold - that's it.

@Secespitus I guess that makes sense. It just makes it very confusing when you are banned despite not having had a declined flag recently.

@HDE226868 If that is it, I don't understand why I'm banned right now. 3 declined/13 total<25%.

2:08 PM

@Gryphon How many in the last 7 days?

I know. That, I think, might be a bug. My current theory is that the ban was applied before that flag was handled or something - maybe a script ran at an odd time.

@Hosch250 That is for the last 7 days. My total is 9 declined/99 total.

OK.

I guess the answer is "Toronto".

(Reference to Uncle Bob's post about how dumb computers are.)

Gah! I hate being flag-banned.

@Gryphon That's probably the intention behind having this ban :D

2:16 PM

@Secespitus It's so frustrating to see a post, go to flag it, and then see that stupid little banner at the bottom.

@Gryphon If you see something truly horrible you can post it here in chat and others can look over it.

. . . But please don't use that as a substitute for normal flagging.

@Secespitus This is pretty clearly POB in my opinion.

@HDE226868 Yes, I was more referring to spam/rude/abusive. Everything else can probably be handled by the rest of the community.

@Secespitus Yeah, I know.

2:33 PM

@Gryphon I added a comment referencing the high concept discussion. Let's see what the OP responds.

Worldbuilding Meta

0

Q: Why is everyone suddenly so strongly against homework questions?

This meta question has sparked a flurry of responses saying we need to get tough on homework questions being asked under the guise of worldbuilding. This argument has come up several times in the 'are real world questions on topic' debate, and it's confused me the whole time. It seems to me that...

discussion on-topic close-reasons

3

Q: Flags declined in the last 7 days...not?

So, I was going about my business on Worldbuilding today, when I tried to flag a post and found myself under a flag ban. While I was under a flag-ban previously, it had expired a few days earlier. I went to check which of my flags had been declined and found that none of them had. Instead, I f...

support bug flagging

3:04 PM

@Gryphon I have now cast my close vote with another comment after the OP didn't edit their question so far.

Thanks Sece

3:47 PM

Sad when someone answers a question that they said was "nonsensical."

4:15 PM

@FoxElemental Well, throwing a baseball at the speed of light is nonsensical too, but it got answered at XKCD.

I know . . .

4:39 PM

This is great, I'm literally seeing my predictions for what would happen to the site if we allow "real world questions" unilaterally come true

Good to know I wasn't crazy

@Aify Which questions are you talking about?

@Aify So far the question was quickly closed and there are no reopen votes

(I assume you looked at the link I sent you.)

@Gryphon Likely the one I reference here

@Secespitus You mean this one?

@FoxElemental I don't talk about closing of questions a lot; I talk about it when I get pulled into the conversations (eg: when someone complains to me about a closure that I made)

Yes

4:43 PM

Yup, I'm talking about the meta one you mentioned @Secespitus

I was the last close vote lol

@FoxElemental the only other time I go into meta typically is when someone tries to broaden the site scope

I'm in favor of tightening the belt around the scope, not undoing it.

@Gryphon How often do you flag, out of curiosity?

@Aify Hmm. Well, I'm at 99 total flags right now, but I've ramped up quite a bit recently. For the week pre-ban, I'd say 1-2 times per day.

Wow.

This ramp-up may or may not have had something to do with the fact that I was almost at the Deputy badge.

I haven't used a flag in so long. I've been here for 3 and a half years and I only have 48 post flags...

Is that including your comment flags?

@Aify Yes, that includes comment flags. I think it's around 80 post flags.

4:50 PM

I wonder if me not using flags is a side effect of getting enough rep to directly CV. Who's the guy who did statistics last time again?

Would love to see stats on flagging patterns based on rep and time

@Aify Are you talking about Kingledion (I think that's how you spell it).

Stop pinging me >.>

Also, I misremembered. It's only 91 flags,

but 80 of them are post flags.

I don't think it's good to go on a flagging spree just because you're close to a badge. The badge will come with time :)

@Aify It wasn't a conscious decision :)

I just saw it pop up as my "your closest to this badge", and started noticing posts that needed flagging more.

4:53 PM

:/

Sorry about the ping.

It's habit.

Wow, there's so many badges I don't have yet

I'm getting better.

I have been on the site for not even 2 years and I am at ~1.100 helpful flags. Only around 400 from <3k rep. You'll get your badge in no time

Wow!

That's a lot of flags.

4:54 PM

That's a huge difference between you and I @Secespitus

I have 4 % of your flags :)

@Aify I thought you don't like pings ;)

XD

I don't like excessive pings

When there's more than one person involved in a conversation then it's acceptable

for the sake of clarity

But if you're in a 1 on 1 convo there's literally no reason to ever use a ping

Because the context is unambiguous

How can you see your comment flag?

s

@Aify I would have thought you'd have more flags judging by your stance on close/reopen.

@Secespitus I passed the 3K mark very quickly when I started on this site

4:56 PM

@bendl Go to your profile then click on the "helpful flags" and then you get an overview on the right side

@Aify Yeah, but what about "Not an answer"?

You mean review tasks?

Actually I don't use the review queues a lot either, they always seem to be empty when I'm online

@Aify No, I mean being the first to find an answer that needs to go into the review queue and sending it there

The reviews themselves don't count towards your flags.

But for low-quality reviews I am at around ~500.

Hm. Majority of my helpful flags are NAA

48 post flags
36 helpful
2 declined
10 disputed

Some of the disputed ones are NAA flags too

Idk, I tend to not flag very often, since when I open up questions for CV they're usually still quite new and dont have answers yet.

I Hate this flag ban.

@Gryphon Then it's doing what it is supposed to do :D

5:03 PM

The problem is, it's only supposed to take effect at 25%, and I'm at 3/13=~23%. So I'm pretty sure it's a bug.

Then it should be gone with the next run of the script, so probably at some point in the next ~24 hours

But while it's still around, I can't flag things. And it bugs me.

Because I've wanted to flag at least 2 different things. And I couldn't. Grrrr

Someone else will likely take care of it. You'll just have to wait a day longer for your badge ;)

@Secespitus I already have it. That's the weird thing. The ban went away when it should have, I got the badge, and it has now mysteriously returned to haunt me.

@Gryphon The system wants to slow your progress to the Sheriff badge down by a couple days ;)

5:09 PM

@Secespitus Don't you mean the Marshall badge?

Ah, yeah, sorry :D

user image

@Secret Portals becomes weird once you allow the portals to move

@Secespitus You're the one who is probably going to get the Sherrif badge in just over a year.

well, I think the classical ones (Read: Those in Portal games) should be manageable

5:13 PM

@Gryphon Nach der Schlacht zählt man die Toten.

@Secespitus I don't speak german...

(You count the dead after the battle is over.)

but basically, a simple mapping argument will show classical portals will get stuck (because it literally bumped into itself) and cannot fully enter another one

(Basically, wait until it's over instead of making predictions. You can never be sure how it changes during the rest.)

@Secespitus That's rather more violent than the normal English idiom about chickens.

5:14 PM

I don't know the english one.

user image

@Secespitus "Don't count your chickens before they hatch."

here's a 3D classical portal

@Gryphon It still has to do with life and death

@Secret Yep, moving portals are weird :D

@Secespitus Yes, but the life of a chicken is generally held to be somewhat less valuable than that of a human.

5:16 PM

@Gryphon Which only goes to show that the German version is putting even greater emphasis on being careful.

@Secespitus I guess... Maybe germans are just more warlike, and the english just tend to be more agriculturally inclined?

@Gryphon ... I prefer my interpretation of us just being more careful...

@Secespitus I did a Model United Nations conference once where an actual quote from the Prussian representative was "The response will be blood and iron."

(This was supposed to be in 1815, which is why there is a prussian representative).

@Gryphon I was starting to wonder why prussia was still relevant in that :D

@Secespitus We were discussing the Treaty of Paris of 1815.

It was interesting.

That was probably the best quote of the conference though. Especially since it was said in complete seriousness, as a point of reply.

5:21 PM

Model UN can be super weird but hilarious

A completely natural response from Prussia :D

@Secespitus Prussia's special war power for that conference was so powerful that it was effectively "you win, with minor casualties", but it only worked while they were attacking. It was great.

Wow. Interesting power.

That was the effect. They actually just got to roll an ungodly number of dice.

But the chance of anybody beating them when they attacked was absurdly low.

I was the delegate from Russia, so I didn't have a power, just as many troops as most of the rest of Europe.

Sounds like an interesting position, too

5:31 PM

Being the delegate for Russia, you mean?

Yes

@Aify You probably already know this

But if you flag a question under a closure reason, your VTC automatically kicks on on it, and automatically throws it in the VTC review queue.

So if your close vote was successful

Then your flag is marked as helpful and your VTC goes through with the other 4 and closes it

Hi, @Hos

@FoxElemental If you vote to close then you vote to close - it doesn't count as a flag. Only when you don't have the reputation to VTC you can flag and only then can your flag ever be marked as helpful.

It's a different mechanic.

@Sece really? Huh, interesting. But the flag automatically uses your VTC, right?

@FoxElemental No, you lose the ability to flag posts as "unclear what you are asking" once you reach 3k rep. It is replaced with the ability to vote to close.

There is no flag involved anymore.

5:38 PM

Mmkay, thanks. You learn something new every day . . .

6:00 PM

Yeah!

I can vote in the elections.

Also, those 2 votes were fast

@Hosch250 Where's your post?

I'd love to read it.

2

A: What manner of weapons and armor would be suitable for freezing conditions in the middle ages?

To address the obvious problem about cold, have you ever gone on a walk/hike in winter (5-25 degrees F)? Simply walking with a heavy coat and boots makes you extremely hot. Add an inch of loose snow, and the heat from the effort to walk becomes incredible. Lack of heat in a moderate winter is goi...

2

A: What manner of weapons and armor would be suitable for freezing conditions in the middle ages?

To address the obvious problem about cold, have you ever gone on a walk/hike in winter (5-25 degrees F)? Simply walking with a heavy coat and boots makes you extremely hot. Add an inch of loose snow, and the heat from the effort to walk becomes incredible. Lack of heat in a moderate winter is goi...

lol I was already reading

it

It's a good answer

Thanks.

6:14 PM

Great answer, @Hos. Upvoted. Now go and vote!

@Hosch250 Congratulations :D

I did vote :)

@Hosch250 Good boy

6:42 PM

YAY!!!

@Gry what?

@FoxElemental I just got my first gold badge.

Cool

So I'm happy.

what for?

6:43 PM

Where?

@bendl Making 500 edits. I'm the 9th person to get the Copy Editor badge on this site.

lol

I've only edited 9

You always get there first xD

I didn't even realize this before I checked, but I'm also 1 of only 2 people who have Archaeologist.

Don't see it on your profile

@FoxElemental The script to actually award it hasn't run yet.

6:51 PM

@Gry ah

But I'm at 500 edits, so I've earned it. Now it's just a waiting game.

lol I'm not sure if badge awards are working in your case or not

@bendl They usually take a bit to actually be awarded.

no, I mean are they having their desired effects - ie incentivising helpful behavior

@bendl How not?

6:56 PM

making minor spelling style and grammar changes on year old posts is probably not what they intended

@bendl I don't remember when I got the Archaeologist badge, but I do remember that I didn't try to get it specifically. So I think that most of the older edits were probably substantial, not inserting a comma.

7:09 PM

@Gryphon Congratulations!

@Secespitus Merci

@Gryphon Oh, so I am not alone anymore :D

@Secespitus Well, there were 7 people besides you before, so...

@Gryphon I meant the Archaeologist

@Secespitus Oh, I don't know when I got that. It was a while ago, I think.

7:11 PM

@Gryphon July 3rd according to the corresponding badge page

@Secespitus Never mind, fairly recently then.

And you got yours in March.

They really should have made that a gold badge, given how few people have it.

@Gryphon March last year

Oh.

I've been soooo alone for such a long time :D

@Secespitus Wow, it did not take you long to earn that.

7:14 PM

Quarter year roughly

Congrats on being the first on the site to get it, I guess.

Thanks :D

2 hours later…

9:05 PM

Oya

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Jul '1812

The Factory Floor

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