@DaaaahWhoosh I guess it's still alright as CompSci is a generic term for a field as broad as the horizon.

Question, if I were to say "When the snow falls, I dance" would that be present or future tense?

@TrEs-2b There is an English Language and Usage SE that could probably answer your question. If you want the opinion from a non-native speaker: I'd say you are using present tense in that sentence. You are just talking about a "normal" reaction that is triggered by a certain circumstance.

@TrEs-2b Possibly, it's future present tense, but I suspect it's present conditional or conditional present tense, i.e., when something is happening, this other thing is happening too. Essentially that's what @Secespitus suggested. Tenses can be ferocious. Past pluperfect always trips me up.

@DaaaahWhoosh You remember our conversation about weird edit messages that with the grace period? I have another one. Check out Revision 5. What happened there and could you exploit it? My guess is: the author counted the changes in different parts of the body and it's not exploitable, but it sure looks weird.

it does look weird, but I don't think it's exploitable. It might've just been a bunch of successive edits lumped together

Hey, do you get -1 points for downvoting an answer? First time I downvoted an answer here: worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/85761/… because it is plain incorrect and I got a -1, I'm confused.

@theindigamer Yes, downvoting an answer costs one reputation. Downvoting a question doesn't cost reputation.

I think it's to discourage serial downvoting

worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/help/privileges/vote-down

@Secespitus, okay, thanks.

I don't think the penalty is steep enough

You can do a lot of serial trolling at only -1 a pop

Though I guess then the mod tools would catch it and fix the problem

@AndyD273 If it was all against one or two users and on a large enough scale, either the system or the mods would probably see it, yeah.

A while back I think there was one of the regulars in here (@DaaaahWhoosh maybe?) who was complaining for a month or three about being targeted, and then one day it all got reversed.

t'was not me

I'm pretty sure it was back before the graduation, so I don't remember much in the way of details now.

I think I remember what you're remembering, but I don't remember who it was

and the chat search is no help

I can't remember such a conversation, but I've only been active for roughly half a year.

aww, trying to look back that far just reminds me of all the people who seem to have left the site forever

@AndyD273 It could have been me, but that was for only a couple days - and that was upvoting, which was quickly reversed. I think @TrEs-2b had an issue a while back, though.

oh, I forgot to say

alien idea for the week:

an intellgent species of caterpillars, that turns into unintelligent butterflies to mate.

so basically metamorphosis is death, but it's also the only way you can have children

metamorphosis is death is common in the insect world anyway. Mayflies for instance.

yeah, but I think it'd be interesting in an intelligent species

Kind of the opposite of Niven's Pax species, now that I think about it...

I'm thinking, if the caterpillars can't mate with each other, and can't raise their own children, it'd be a society pretty much devoid of love

or, at least most of the versions of love that humans have

Vulkin like?

yeah, I guess so

That would be an interesting reference pattern.

I'm also wondering how they'd think of metamorphosis. I mean, because of evolution they'd desire it, but I wonder if after a certain point self-preservation might take over

The question is, would they fear metamorphosis, or would it just be a inevitable thing that every one accepts

lol yes

I'm thinking it'd be similar to the Christian (and perhaps other religions too) idea of loving God and rejecting his creation, or loving creation and rejecting God.

@DaaaahWhoosh As a christian, huh?

basically, Tolkien's elves. They want to stay in Middle-Earth, but they also want to sail to Valinor

@AndyD273 I don't think it's a common thing. But it shows up in some Renaissance poetry, and like I said in Tolkien

it might be specifically Catholic, I'm not sure

the idea being that enjoying Earthly pleasures is sinful and/or idolatrous, so you should give up all of it and have faith that God will let you into heaven for it.

but of course Earthly pleasures are great, and the counter-argument is that they're actually the best way to see God. So it's a contradiction

so in the case of these caterpillars, metamorphosis is similar to ascending to heaven, they have a deep feeling that it's what they're supposed to do. But the more intelligent they get, the more value they place on their caterpillar-life

I'm thinking it would be cool if they could pretty much choose when to go. Like they could eat less, so their bodies wouldn't want to transform.

I think you'd probably some caterpillars researching ways to delay the change, while others are fighting to keep the natural order and speaking against the research at the very least. So caterpillar politics.

@AndyD273 yeah, that too. There's so much to explore

@AndyD273 Maybe that's what happened to real-world caterpillars :D

@HDE226868 Yeah, cannot be sure, but it seemed for a while someone was going through my repertoire and mass madown-voting

@Secespitus Those who ignore caterpillar history are doomed to repeat it! Heed the warnings!

@DaaaahWhoosh Also, that's a cool idea

Perhaps they aren't fully aware of what lies beyond metamorphosis. Since they become basically animals at that point, they lack communication, maybe they believe that it would free them of all worries, stress and fear. Not knowing death doesn't seem too bad

@TrEs-2b ooh, now that opens up a lot of questions. Like, I wonder how the caterpillars and butterflies would interact

would children keep their parents around, basically as pets?

and what would burials be like for dead butterflies, as opposed to dead caterpillars?

Maybe they'd see them as enlightened beings, no longer caring about the things of this world, but free to float with the wind. They might not even know they are non-sentient

@DaaaahWhoosh I kinda doubt this, as caging a winged creature seems like a cruel thing... Dead caterpillars would probably be seen as a tragedy of lost potential, while a dead butterfly that has laid it's eggs is not.

well, maybe they wouldn't cage it, but they might feed it and give it a place to sleep

That seems reasonable

ooh, it'd be interesting if the butterflies sometimes ate the caterpillars

(and I want to point out I'm using caterpillar/butterfly as an analogy here, this fictional species could potentially look like anything)

Huh, actually, that would make an interesting story arch... Everyone believes that the butterflies are just enlightened, no long caring about normal every day things, and so metamorphosis is seen as a positive; letting go of everyday cares and pondering the wonders of the universe. It's just the traditional belief passed down from ancient times.

And then one day a researcher discovers that they basically just go into an animal state and operate on instinct. Suddenly, while still necessary for the continuation of the species, the change is now tainted with fear of losing yourself...

shivers

I just can't think how to end it... Leave it at that, as society reels, or is there a way to take it further...

well, there'd probably be some anti-science backlash

just like there always is when science seems to contradict religion

so... angry mob breaking down the door to the lab, scientists on the inside with no way out, and then some butterflies show up

and do something interesting. Fade to black

I just realized that's not going to make much sense out of context

very few things do

I guess it's a matter of the size of the context. Some statements are self-consistent, others need previous knowledge to make sense

oh, also, short story ^

the list is getting longer :D

Yeah, I added it to my story idea folder too...

if I ever use this idea, it's probably going to be for my sci-fi world. I need about a half dozen alien species, and I want them to be sufficiently alien.

I had an idea for a scene the other night while mowing the lawn, and even plotted the story a bit, but then didn't write it down... I think I need to defrag my brain, as things are getting a bit cluttered... Maybe the details will pop out again

aww, I just remembered I had an interesting dream, and was going to try to remember it, but now I've completely forgotten it

The scene is a guy who is in prison in a future where peoples brains are plugged into a simulated, sped up world, where they are subjected to simulated situations over and over and over again in an attempt to reform them. So they guy is talking to one of the AI wardens, and says something like "How long have I been here now", and the warden says "subjectively, 3 years." "And in real time?" "About 5 minutes."

The idea being that locking people away for decades is a waste of resources, and it's better to reform them and get them back into society. And if they won't reform, then their brain will burn out from the constant overclocking.

And because it's plugged into their brain, the AI knows if the person has actually reformed, or is just trying to fake it.

wow, that is a cool idea

so it'd be like, you simulate the crime scene over and over again until they've trained themselves to not commit the crime?

I'm thinking different simulations, not just the one that got them caught. Say you have a person that likes to go after a certain type, so you simulate a situation where they would be likely to attack. And then you could make them go through it again, except in the victim role. By suppressing memory while in the attacker role, you could avoid tainting that side of it, while hoping that it gets into the subconscious

You could even have it be a life simulator, where they are set as a productive member of society, with duties that fit their skills and interests, and then see how long it takes them to give into the dark tendencies. "wow, you went 9 years without murdering anyone that time. you're improving!"

Or simulate past experiences where they were victimized which started the cycle, and then give them the power to step in and alter it.

hmm yeah I guess it would be interesting to give them different perspectives. Maybe teach them empathy

I can see a number of ways that it could be done, and variables could be adjusted for each cycle to give the person the tools they need.

I wonder, though, if it would actually work. But I guess that's the difference between a utopia and a dystopia

plus, how would the population react if murderers were back on the streets after a day in jail? Logically, if they're reformed, it should be fine, but some people might not like it

unless they were used to the technology, I guess.

ooh, imagine if someone figured out how to beat the system. They could have the machine let them go free early, or spend the time playing out fantasies at the government's expense.

@DaaaahWhoosh Well the second way isn't actually a failure of the system. If you had someone who wanted to use it to play out their fantasies over and over, at least it's all virtual, and eventually they'll burn out, die, and be removed from society permanently that way

Have you ever read the book Daemon by Daniel Suarez?

nnnnnnnnnnnnope

@AndyD273 (I just mean they'd spend enough time in the simulations that no one would suspect that they'd cheated)

ahh

it's like that one guy in Breaking Bad, that took the blame for crimes because he didn't mind going to prison

I guess if someone was a repeat offender they'd just be seen as a lost cause and euthanized.

what I'm thinking is that maybe if the system normally works well enough, there wouldn't even be a check for repeat offenders

something like in Minority Report, everyone trusts the system so no one checks when it's wrong

Well, slight difference... in that one the people are being put down before they can commit the crime, so it's hard to know if they would have done it or not, while in this case the person killed someone, was marked reformed, and then got caught doing it again. The only thing where they could get it wrong is if they were framed the second time, maybe someone looking for revenge for the first murder.

@AndyD273 that story sounds like a modernized Clockwork Orange. Deprogramming people from their violent ways.

Overlooking someone's brain sounds better than making them watching video after video with their eyes propped open.

(you mean overclocking, not overlooking?)

In Daemon there's a part that's sorta like this. Guy is in prison, but because of his record he get's selected for recruitment by the Daemon. He gets released from prison early, directed to this place where he has to lay down on a table, and the Daemon starts showing a lot of different images while doing a fMRI on his brain to see his response. Does he show pleasure or horror from the snuff film. How about images of happy families? etc.

He is told after that if he failed the test he would have been euthanized peacefully.

The second book has one of my favorite parts from any book though

@DaaaahWhoosh Yep, was typing on my phone.

I gotta put Daemon back in my reading queue again now darnit

@AndyD273 Sorry. Not sorry (?).

hehe

@AndyD273 what do you do for work? I know @DaaaahWhoosh does software development of some kind.

The only real problem with it is my reading list has gotten really really long with books I really want to read, so choosing which one to do next can be difficult.

@Green Programming, web development, few other things.

@AndyD273 I do a mix of prototype development, product research, infrastructure architecture, software quality, training material development and operations support. Basically, I do everything.

I work for a pretty small company, so I'm basically the only programmer. Our graphic designer can do some web front end stuff, and I'm slowly teaching him the back end stuff, but for anything complicated he calls me.

It's weird, I seem to end up in huge organizations but working on really small teams.

It make job searches a bit tricky because I do so many things, it's hard for potential employers to think of where to stick me. (Or, at least, that's what I tell myself.)

Some of my job is "Hey, this isn't working right", and some is "I got this neat idea for something, make it real".

@AndyD273 I had a two year project (and $1M budget) that started because I made a list of all the things that were wrong with the existing product.

that's not to bad

I called it the Big List of Ugly.

hehe

Have you ever done parameter estimation for models? It's really tricky.

It looks like it

I'm trying to work out how to calculate the puberty rate for a three gendered species I'm working on. If I just take a percentage of this years teens, then I treat all the juveniles as if they're the same age. However, I can add in some complexity and keep track of how many juveniles are a particular age but I hope I don't need to do that.

Not sure what i'm gonna do with that yet.

If nothing else it's a good exercise?

@AndyD273 Agreed, it is good practice.

I'm aware that delay/lag are important parts of modeling systems but I haven't been able to figure out how to model it yet.

what do you do your modeling in?

A combination of AnyLogic and Excel.

That's the model I have so far.

It's entirely possible that I've made the model too complicated and just need to get rid of the juvenile stage completely.

You've probably seen this: help.anylogic.com/index.jsp?topic=/com.xj.anylogic.help/html/sd/…

what is the purpose of the model? Like, what's it going to produce?

@DaaaahWhoosh The purpose of the model is to see if different things happen at scale when you have three genders in your species. I have an older simulation that doesn't scale past ~50K individuals. I want to scale it out to millions.

@AndyD273 Actually, I haven't seen that. Thank you very much!

And there's nothing like a little Pearl Jam to drown out loud, obnoxious coworkers.

I have no idea what any of it means though...

But it doesn't look overly complicated just by skimming

@Green did any different things happen in the older simulation? (and was there a blog post about it?)

@DaaaahWhoosh I found that the population was very prone to wild cycles. There were three genders (A, B, C). A's never got pregnant, B & C's could get pregnant. A+B pregnancies always yield C children. A+C = B children. B+C = A children.

Because of the way children are determined, if you killed all the Bs in a population, you'd get a bunch of them back in a hurry because all the A+C pregnancies would provide them very quickly.

The first model used Agent-based simulation which was okay but limited. This time I'm going with a System Dynamics approach will works with far larger groups of people with greater ease than with agents.

I feel like I've said this before, but I wonder if mate preference would affect things. Like if you're lacking in Bs, the As would mate with them more often because they were more exotic

@DaaaahWhoosh Possibly but I'm not modeling that part (yet). I just want to get the simulation working properly.

And it wouldn't be difficult to introduce a sexual selection pressure.

Hmm, with B+C, which one gets pregnant?

@AndyD273 Not sure :)

@DaaaahWhoosh Would that not cause a downward spiral in B's numbers?

I just assumed a 50/50 split of who would get pregnant.

@Bellerophon yeah, I think B or C would end up being perpetually rare

but it's hard for me to think of three things at once

@Green Well, if they both have the potential, then potentially they could both get pregnant at the same time, so you might end up with A's growing very fast

Assuming there isn't some other mechanism to stop that

@AndyD273 but even that would even out, as more As decreases the odds of Bs and Cs mating

assuming monogamous relationships

lol, this is not the search bar

Depends on what you're searching for...

@AndyD273 I hadn't considered this situation but it's definitely possible. I didn't model in any negative feedback loops on population. I just wanted to see what would happen in ideal circumstances.

Hey @Green

Hows your summer project with the MIT climate model coming

@kingledion Hey!

I named a spaceship after you. I was in the ship designer, needed a name and yours popped into my head. Congratulations, you're flying through space!

Horray! Do I have weapons?

Holy crap, that project blew up in my face. I had real trouble getting post-calculation visualization working (had to learn Matlab) then discovered I was going to need to build my own model then implement it (yay! Fortran90 programming).

@kingledion You have many weapons! Plasma cannons (very effective in game) and at least 8 missile launchers.

Woof sounds like a lot of work

Which game is this?

@kingledion Yep, so I found other things to work on.

@kingledion Reassembly.

store.steampowered.com/app/329130/Reassembly

Interesting

The music is pretty relaxing. I'm still trying to get the hang of ship design. The game lets you test potential designs against other player's designs. Sometimes I get wrecked, sometimes I wreck!

I played this one space shooter on steam....hmmm what was the name

Gratuitous space battles, or something like that

Pretty legit, but pretty shallow, 15 hours of gameplay and it gets stale

I actually started playing Europa Universalis 4 again this summer, which I don't know why I am doing, it is just the most unholy time sink

@kingledion I've played that one. I kept getting absolutely destroyed when I designed my own ships. I quite after that.

store.steampowered.com/app/236850/Europa_Universalis_IV

If I wasn't sinking hours into that stupid game every night I could be doing useful things, like learning how climate models work, or taking care of my children, or sleeping

@kingledion Kind of crappy that it's gone from Mostly Positive to Mostly Negative.

@kingledion Sleep. What is that?

Yeah, for Gratuitious space battles, they need to add a more complex 'programming' system for tactical combat. So many times my perfect spaceship designs are undermined by captains that can't point their ships in the right direction

@kingledion I never got that far into it to even need that feature. I remember playing a game (long time ago) where you could set targeting priorities and it seemed to help a lot.

Okay, I'm off to dinner. @kingledion Good to see you again. Good luck with Europa Universalis!

Thanks, see you around!

hey there @TrEs-2b