The Factory Floor - 2017-06-23

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3:28 AM

@dot_Sp0T I remember looking into OpenGL when it came out. Got a couple of books, fiddled around on Windows.

7 hours later…

10:34 AM

@JDługosz the good old times. I had my first go at it during my apprenticeship, that was in ~2010 - back then it was still mostly fixed pipeline & matrix push'n'popping. Now it's all programmable pipeline and I have to get into all these shader specifications and what not

3 hours later…

1:50 PM

...have we had a question about creating fire arms for a creature without oppose-able thumbs?

it appears we have not

on it!

I will say, though, there are two questions about humans without thumbs, and both are closed

Yeah but you can't get much broader than this:

6

Q: How Would Human Society be Different if we Didn't Have Opposable Thumbs?

If all humans had four fingers and no opposable thumbs, how would the world be different? When I say 'have no opposable thumbs', I mean if humans never evolved them. Specifically, I'm looking for differences in technology and western culture/society, but feel free to explore other possible effe...

biology society humans culture

I like this one, it feels like something a four-year-old would ask:

-4

Q: If humans lost thumbs, would we all die?

Assume all humans lose their thumbs overnight. When they wake up, their hands look as if the thumbs never existed. Would they die? I know that there are people who live happily without hands or arms, but I think the situation would be more difficult if all people lose their thumbs at once. For e...

science-based reality-check humans

Therewouldbealmostnochangeinthetechsector,exceptthatwewouldn‌olongerbeabletoreach‌thespacebarwhiletypi‌ng. — Henry Taylor Dec 19 '16 at 17:30

3

2:23 PM

@DaaaahWhoosh @James how's it going!

@James did you find a site that answers your question from yesterday?

@Green best I have found is votesmart.org/candidate/key-votes/41963/…

I have a gift for you @Green

0

Q: What are the design implications on firearms when they will be used by a race without opposable thumbs?

I have a race in my world that in most respects is comparable to a human, perhaps not in form but certainly in function. One of the key differences between humans and this species is a lack of opposable thumbs. This species still has five fingers. The fifth, instead of being a thumb is ess...

science-based weapons anatomy

@James I'll take a shot.

ooh, I think I have an answer, but I don't know what they're called

ah, gastraphetes

Wouldn't it be better to first reason out how non-violent tools are used and extrapolate the handles from that concept as a base?

@Hyfnae that's what I was thinking, except I was thinking specifically for weapons

it does seem like a lot would change in a society without thumbs

2:37 PM

First thing I thought of was stap-on guns with chords connecting to the fingers.

But I find it a bit... simplistic...

strap-on*

@Hyfnae you know you can edit chat posts, right?

@Green Pun intended?

Now I do.

:D

@HDE226868 :)

2:41 PM

Seriously though. A species without opposable thumbs would need something else to compensate for the deficit in order to achieve advanced technology... Everything would be different, including weapons. They might not even use firearms at all.

or maybe they have something that works the same as opposable thumbs

hmm but does that defeat the point of the question

I feel like someone without thumbs would just naturally develop opposable fingers. like, one finger would get really good at bending backwards

I don't know. But it's definitely something to take into consideration.

I'm thinking, use your two middle fingers as fingers, and your side fingers as thumbs. That seems like it'd work just as well

@Hyfnae That would be a perfectly acceptable intro to an answer yes

Also Hi, welcome to my domai....er chat.

@James perhaps, but I won't be posting an answer to your question.

2:53 PM

Hi folks

hi

<Serban Tanasa in Sim>

o/

Okay @James that's my shot at it.

\&

2:57 PM

@SerbanTanasa We don't take to kindly to mind flayers here...keep your tentacles to yourself.

@James I just answered your question, I think I did a bad job explaining, do you think I need to draw pictures for it?

3:18 PM

actually, too late, I just did. I'll edit it in

ugh, sometimes I wish my phone took smaller pictures.

21st century problems

Quick poll: How many people have heard of the "the expanding universe is like a balloon being blown up" analogy?

is there something drawn on the balloon?

@HDE226868 I have.

@DaaaahWhoosh Galaxies, if you want.

See astro.ucla.edu/~wright/balloon0.html.

@Green Okay, 1 for 2.

well no, I have heard of it, I might be getting it confused with the 'triangles on a sphere have more than 180 degrees' experiment

3:33 PM

Oh, that one.

@DaaaahWhoosh Cool.

can the triangles on a sphere analogy be used to explain relativity somehow? Or is there some third thing that happens on a sphere that explains that?

I've seen it used to explain the curvature of the universe, so yeah.

okay, so that probably explains why all these things are connected in my brain.

@HDE226868 I have.

I'm suddenly wondering, does the sum of angles in a triangle on a sphere increase as the size of the triangle increases relative to the size of the sphere? And am I smart enough to prove it?

3:40 PM

@DaaaahWhoosh I'm not sure I am smart enough to understand the question...

@DaaaahWhoosh Yes and no.

:D D:

I want to say an infinitely small triangle is essentially on a flat plane, so it's going to add up to 180, which gives a lower bound. And I know the middle cases are more than that. But I can't fathom what an infinitely large triangle on a finitely large sphere would look like

Mithrandir24601

@HDE226868 It's a bad analogy

@DaaaahWhoosh I don't think it would look like anything being an impossible construct.

@Bellerophon then there is a maximum size for a triangle on a sphere?

3:46 PM

@DaaaahWhoosh I assume the area of the triangle has to be less than the surface area of the sphere. Before we go any further with this I should point out I have no mathematical qualifications and won't have any until August 28th.

@Bellerophon I was going to assume that too, but I'm thinking there's nothing in the definition of a triangle that says the lines can't cross. It's just connections between three points, no reason those connections can't wrap around a few times

but that's where my brain refuses to understand things

@DaaaahWhoosh True. In that case it can be infinitely big but I think if they go beyond a certain size then you end up just drawing a smaller triangle that does fit on the sphere with some lines crossing through it?

possibly. I need a sphere.

oh, so you mean that there is a more optimal connection between the three points

because the maximum distance between any two points on a sphere is half the circumference

@Mithrandir24601 It is indeed.

I asked because I wrote a blog post bashing it, and I was curious if people in general know it.

@DaaaahWhoosh Right. Although I don't know if that affects the angles.

3:54 PM

@Bellerophon it at least gives an upper bound for the biggest possible triangle. Which might help if I ever try to finish this proof

Mithrandir24601

@HDE226868 This is strongly reminding me of third year statistical and thermal physics - the first thing the lecturer said was 'who here believes they understand thermodynamics?'. No-one put up their hand. His reply was along the lines of 'good. I'm been working in this field for a couple of decades and I maybe have some sort of vague, not great understanding of it. If anyone ever tells you that they understand thermodynamics, they're either lying or wrong'

@Mithrandir24601 Yes, that seems to be a common sentiment.

Mithrandir24601

@HDE226868 Did I ever show you this?:

user image

No. What am I looking at?

@Bellerophon in case you already know or want to find out, must any triangle on a sphere fit within a single hemisphere?

4:03 PM

@DaaaahWhoosh I don't think so.

Mithrandir24601

@HDE226868 silicon oil droplets on silicon oil :) In other words, this: youtube.com/watch?v=nmC0ygr08tE

And yes, I do have a video of them walking :D

I can imagine a triangle covering more than 50% of a sphere.

@Mithrandir24601 Oh, that is awesome.

@Bellerophon yeah, but as you were saying before, could you connect the points in a different way, to make the triangle fit in the hemisphere?

Mithrandir24601

@HDE226868 Thanks :) It also makes it easier when trying to explain quantum physics to people :)

4:06 PM

@DaaaahWhoosh Can we go through the sphere?

@Bellerophon no, it has to be along the surface

@DaaaahWhoosh I don't know, give me a minute to try and work it out.

I think, not sure though, that every triangle can fit into one hemisphere.

yeah, I think so too.

I want to say, then, that the largest possible triangle is one where its points are along the hemisphere line

or... the triangle is the hemisphere line

no... wait, I don't think that works

I need to think about this when I'm at home

@DaaaahWhoosh Couldn't that be made shorter by going over the hemisphere instead of around?

@Bellerophon yeah, so now I'm wondering again if the minimal-distance thing has to be necessary

if the hemisphere-triangle is a triangle, every angle is 180 degrees

4:13 PM

@DaaaahWhoosh Yeah.

potentially that means the maximum sum of angles is 540. It just depends on how you define a triangle on a sphere

I have so many questions now

oh, wait. two points on opposite ends, they have to connect with half the circumference. Then any third point. The two lines to it will equal the circumference, no matter what.

never mind, that doesn't help

@DaaaahWhoosh Really? I get the first bit but is the second bit correct?

@Bellerophon I meant half the circumference. I don't think it can be less, and I don't think it can be more

That sounds right. Which means the largest triangle is 1 circumference which is the same as the hemisphere triangle.

except you can think of the 1 circumference as two strings between opposite points, there's nothing stopping you from pulling the strings together

alternately, there's nothing stopping you from pulling them apart. So hemisphere triangle seems valid, but can be arbitrarily shrunk

5:07 PM

@DaaaahWhoosh This might be worth asking on Math.

@HDE226868 I was considering just asking "on a sphere, what is a triangle?"

because now I don't even know that

I hate maths. I always end up knowing less than I started with.

3

The maximal sum of interior angles is achieved by drawing a very small triangle somewhere on the sphere and then declaring the inside to be the outside and vice versa. The sum of the interior and exterior angles is necessarily always $3\times 360^\circ$ and since one of these sets cannot sum to less than $180^\circ$, the opposite one cannot be more than $5\times 180^\circ$. — Henning Makholm Oct 24 '11 at 23:52

I think I'm pretty much satisfied now. Although, is it true that any 'straight' line on a sphere must travel the circumference before ending up where it started?

so, like, all the latitude/longitude lines aren't straight lines except the ones in the middle?

I'm gonna assume yes, someone pick a different thing for me to think about

@DaaaahWhoosh I pick geodesics.

5:22 PM

ah, okay then, I guess that answers it.

but I don't want to think about geodesics, they make me dizzy

Moving in straight lines makes you dizzy?

on a plane? no. On a sphere? yes. In a plane, above a sphere? also yes.

I don't like flying.

@DaaaahWhoosh Because you don't know if you are travelling in a curve or line?

lol well there is that thing where the flat earthers have gotten to me, so even though I believe the Earth is round I now need to see it for myself

I try to check when flying, but I don't know if we get high enough and I'm always on the wing or asleep

possibly I can go visit my sister in Chicago so I can look across the lake to see the masts of ships rising from the horizon

hmm, but I wonder if the lake is big enough for that.

@DaaaahWhoosh They mention the size in Due South's pilot episode.

5:39 PM

huh, never heard of it

@DaaaahWhoosh It's a pretty niche Canadian police comedy about a Mountie. I think the first 2 series were shown in America but the audience was mostly British and Canadian.

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Jun '1723

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