The Factory Floor

2:40 AM

@FutureHistorian Imagining the battles like img.gawkerassets.com/img/17ybxvfv7e7g2jpg/original.jpg

A: Sandbox for Proposed Questions

4:55 AM

Howdy.

Feeds

5:48 AM

0

What would the medium a culture that writes in circles look like? Most Earth cultures--as far as I know--tend to use square or rectangular surfaces to write upon, and similarly our texts are also organized into square and rectangular shapes. However, a culture that writes in circles (as in all t...

6:20 AM

slow day.

6:37 AM

Indeed, how goes the writing?

@FerretCivilization Pretty good. Filled in some important stuff, and worked on some of the dirty stuff.

Was that dirty stuff your mind.

Oh, something funny⋯ I had checked YouTube for 'writing erotica' and besides interviews, audio book, people explaining how much money they made, lessons for dealing with Amazon, etc. there was a title “The integral of e^i” or something like that. What's that say about their categorization algorithms? But then I realized that by clicking on that first I had re-enforced the association. Oops.

@FerretCivilization No, the scene.

Ah, of course.

I'm at 77,000 words now. If I don’t start putting sex scenes in, they’ll never fit.

6:45 AM

50 Shades of Gray it

You remember my outlining shorthand from yesterday.

The dirty math stuff?

@FerretCivilization Yea… that's just it. If such drek can sell so well, why not write a good story where the sex is never gratuitous but produces character development and shows the character’s current state? It can’t lose. I’ve since seen that the bar is remarkably low on the Amazon stuff, with no proofing, spell checking, or proper formatting.

Indeed.

@FerretCivilization Yea. Is Google listening in, and linked math with porn now? Imagine all the poor users who will start getting "next video" links for StandupMaths or njwildberger?

“Wild Trig vol 86: Uniform Motion” yea, sounds sexy... then "huh?"

6:53 AM

Dr. Google always listens.

That would be a great search engine hack though… those are harder to pull off now.

What are you up to tonight?

@JDługosz If you get enough people to join in it might eventually work.

Reading some near insane troll logic debate on gun control, apparently Canada does not have guns.

Many countries don't.

Anyway, just posted Psychological Effects of Anonymity if you want to see.

@FerretCivilization Here, they make good wedding gifts.

6:57 AM

True Bellerophon, but like a simple Google search would get you those countries.

Japan, Australia, Canada and the UK are the main ones I know of.

Canada has guns though.

Interesting… Pandora just played Charles Gounodon’s Meditation on Prelude No. 1 of Bach, for violin and piano. It's a popular choice for the Ave Maria words.

Ah, here we go.

Ave Maria (Bach/Gounod)

The Ave Maria by Bach/Gounod is a popular and much-recorded setting of the Latin text Ave Maria, originally published in 1853 as Méditation sur le Premier Prélude de Piano de S. Bach. The piece consists of a melody by the French Romantic composer Charles Gounod that he superimposed over an only very slightly changed version of the Prelude No. 1 in C major, BWV 846, from Book I of J.S. Bach's The Well-Tempered Clavier, written 137 years earlier. == History == Gounod improvised the melody, and his future father-in-law Pierre-Joseph-Guillaume Zimmermann transcribed the improvisation and in 1853 made...

@FerretCivilization Nearly all countries have some guns, they just are more heavily licensed.

Yeah I know, the argument I read was they literally had none at all.

7:26 AM

@JDługosz So doing anything in your story based off that anonymity and roll-playing.

@FerretCivilization Yea, the two chars (A and C) are flirting normally and whatnot, and get pulled into a pub game where the host mistakes them for a couple. So they make up answers about each other and their history, as a joke. Afterwards, they keep it up, and realize that they fell into the role of how to act in a relationship, comfortably without all the dancing around and probing of the just-met stage.

That’s the first chapter. I have (checking…) over 20,000 words before revealing the characters names to each other or the reader, and part of that is still storyboard notes to fill in.

Make up answers about each other, pessimism in me be like, that is a set up for a lot of disappointment when they finally get to know each other.

@FerretCivilization She’s emphatic. She reads in him that the way he acts (in a relationship) is like what she sees in her parents and grandparents. She gets to know him before he realizes it. Anyway, cupid's arrow doesn’t care at that point. It might only last a couple weeks, but it’s happening.

Emphatic over a computer screen, damn, that is some talent.

That part is pretty romantic. Want to read through it? I could paste that arc into a single file.

@FerretCivilization (?) no, they are in person. They met at a water park.

That make more sense? (You think “flirting normally” means online? LOL)

7:39 AM

Sure why not.
Ah okay that would explain it, and fuck if I know I have not been able to get anyone yet.

@FerretCivilization Patience. How old are you now?

20, busy buried in college, that young life stuff, and yeah I know the you still have a lot to experience, just saying for now I have no clue.

I know… at that age I wanted nothing more than to find that relationship. "Youth is wasted on the young." is quite true.

Ha, indeed.

Oh now this is getting depressing

7:43 AM

Modern times people wait longer before pairing up. My mom was engaged in high school with a date set ASAP after graduation. Her mom was just out of 8th grade, which was all the school girls had.

The issue is not even the waiting but the uncertainties and the expectation of everything having to be perfect.

@dot_Sp0T Want depressing? Listen to Reba McEntire. I played an album earlier… have to take that in small doses, like 150 proof tequila.

@dot_Sp0T Fiction is so much better than real life.

@JDługosz on a side note, your writing is doing you well. You're much more active in here than I remember you being before you took up writing :)

@JDługosz indeed

Well, less active on the main board, though.

(and I “Took up writing” before you were born. First real publication in 1988)

Depressing, ha, is that all life gets to look forward to

7:48 AM

@JDługosz oooh I am so sorry mister old person. Yet I've never heard of any of it before you started being more active in here and post some of your samples to request feedback / discuss them.

@FerretCivilization no, there's also taxes.

2

Anyway, want to read the “pub game” scene first draft real quick? Only 3000 words.

Of course

@JDługosz link it and I'll go through it before I dig into the prep work for my afternoon course

@dot_Sp0T Check it out: dlugosz.com/Magazine/CLM/Nov89 It was my first Cover feature, one year after I started selling articles.

@dot_Sp0T Sure, one moment...

When you have to load each page out of that link... Yeah definitely not 21st century.

7:53 AM

@dot_Sp0T OK, it's uploaded as adobe.ly/2gtXILZ

2

5½ pages.

BTW, the highlights show where names are used. I still have to figure out how to hide it from the reader when he’s the viewpoint character who does know his own name, when writing in 3rd person.

Hide the names with the pronoun game.

@FerretCivilization I can manage "he" a lot here, but whenever there’s another male it can get confusing. I agree, in this scene it’s doable as it’s almost all him.

When it comes to other people just use they and them.

@FerretCivilization No I don't. Proper number agreement, FTW.

IAC, the audience is "they" here.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they (Singular they) Coming in with that political correctness.

8:05 AM

@FerretCivilization It’s obvious to all present (and the VP character in particular) that the M.C. is a man, so why would you avoid using “he”?

You said for other hes and the confusion that might cause.

@FerretCivilization One of the answers to my last question had not only singular they but had messed up number agreement so badly that I had trouble understanding the first paragraph at all. People don't just use they as a singular; they mix plural forms in in an inconsistent way. Most folks just don’t perceive grammar; they think more like those Babble programs that string together words that commonly go together.

@FerretCivilization I’m fiddling with different ideas all across the chapter. After here, I can use nicknames. Have you looked at that scene yet?

Not all people have a complete understanding of grammar and other rules for using a language. Should not hold a writer back from using it in the correct way.
And yes, some of it, nicknames would probably work as their usernames, just refer to everything as usernames until the real names are mentioned.

@FerretCivilization Yea, and he almost guesses her name by accident. Decided that would spook her and ruin the eventual revelation, so didn’t put that in anywhere yet.

@JDługosz I present to you an even worse form: xir

8:13 AM

But her namecard said “Light”, from the long-winded answer, short for “Light of my life”. A name that means Light is Lucinda.

Even though the question clearly and consistently states "She"

Ha, that story symbolism eh.

@Secespitus In WB (I think) I commented on a post that used “they” confusingly that it’s OK to use "he" as the question itself did. That person got upset. It (since it doesnt want a standard singular pronoun) has a problem with other people being openly male or female, rather than simply beleiving that “he” is as marked as “she”.

Political correctness is the real winner.

… and her real name is Cindy, which is one of the common diminutives of Lucinda. (Lucy being the other)

8:18 AM

@JDługosz I think I mentioned this recently in chat, but I use a default "he" unless there is some pretty obvious indicator such as the name "Monica". And reading stuff like singular "They" is confusing and very hard to read when english is not your native tongue. I sometimes catch myself using it because everyone here seems to use it, but mostly I prefer people just using "he" or "she" in whichever way they feel comfortable.

And denying other people to be openly male or female is the same problem as denying them any of the other forms that seem to have emerged in recent years.

@Secespitus Yea. It would be better if there was a movement to restore the popular impression of “he” as being unmarked, which is something the English teachers will get behind as well. Then the tumblerites will make up a new word to be a marked male-only pronoun, which at least won’t cause syntax errors and promote getting other problems in the sentence.

Its been tainted, there is no going back now.

@FerretCivilization What? You should be able to download the PDF, or view in the browser.

@JDługosz I'd read it, but it seems to be blocked here. Maybe I'll do it when I am home and have some time, which is probably in roughly 12 hours.

No with the movement thing, its been tainted.

8:25 AM

@Secespitus OK, I'll leave the file for a while.

@FerretCivilization What? I don't understand.

With the whole default 'he' for an unknown person, with tumblerites trying to do that gender neutral pronoun using words mostly used for plurals. The idea is already out there, it is too late, word is already tainted.

@FerretCivilization OK, I thought maybe you were having trouble with the PDF file.

Anyway, the made-up answers in that scene are discussed later, and they explain where they came from and in the process reveal more about themselves.

@Secespitus Shudder I just don't like that one

@Mithrandir24601 That's why I always link to it whenever such a discussion comes up. Nobody seems to feel that this is appropriate.

@Mithrandir24601 Well, if civ moves to a English/Chinese merger (like in Firefly?) one can just use tā which in spoken Mandarin is used for both he and she.

3

8:34 AM

I do think it's a bit weird - if you define as non-binary, only start asking to refer to yourself as such (ex etc.) (OK, at least it's already defined in e.g. German), haven't you just invented a third gender which, if anything, compounds the problem instead of fixing it?

@JDługosz Languages that don't differentiate in this regard seem to be so much easier...

@JDługosz Yes. Much yes

@JDługosz That would imply actually fixing a problem and losing something to complain about. They do not really want that, ha.

@Mithrandir24601 Yea, it’s like the xkcd about too many standards.

Fortunately, the charging one has been solved now that we've all standardized on mini-USB. Or is it micro-USB? Shit.

8:36 AM

@Secespitus It does actually, they just sound the same. But people think that way, and don’t see the big deal that the tumblerites make it out to be. They mix up he/she randomly when speaking.

@JDługosz Mixing, using something that is grammatically wrong, inventing new words and expecting everyone to know that you just invented a word for something are the main problems I have with this topic.

It’s easy to take the pedantic viewpoint when confronted with stuff that is hard to read. Being a software engineer kind of goes with that, too.

Binary is the one true language.

@FerretCivilization it's not a language. it's a numeric base.

@FerretCivilization 01010000 01110010 01100101 01110100 01110100 01111001 00100000 01101100 01100101 01101110 01100111 01110100 01101000 01111001 00100000 01110100 01101000 01101111 01110101 01100111 01101000 00101110 00101110 00101110

8:41 AM

@FerretCivilization Hmm, how hard would it be to read a story when all the characters are refered to with binary numbers?

I give it a few decades before people start complaining about not being this third gender and... Inventing another gender!

@JDługosz Trying to suppress the machines right to language now.

@Secespitus Right: binary representation of small natural numbers, which are code points for letters in some writing system, which are used to write some language.

@FerretCivilization So did you read the pages? Or later?

@JDługosz Which is only one way to communicate the signals in your brain so that another brain can make its own signals out of the input signals.

Yeah I have read the pages, probably have to read them again now. Was there something specific you wanted me to see in it?

8:45 AM

@FerretCivilization just want some feedback on the Tall Tales they made up about their fake history.

Guess it was not that over the top, gave it some realism. That or I need more of a social life to compare this to.

Realism… now that you mention it, I did take a date to Manhattan. Just remembered that; it ended badly. Not the trip, the relationship.

Well then.

@FerretCivilization Hmm, I suppose there's more "real experience" in there than planned, throughout.

So maybe I should’t let my wife read it.

Really, ha, I guess I do need more of a social life.
And depends on your wife.

8:59 AM

@FerretCivilization as for social life, it depends on what you make of it. You can do romantic stuff, spend too much money on dates, etc. Also, as in the story, just doing normal things together rather than not having time for dating.

Indeed.

You can memorize poetry, learn the art of massage, learn to cook and bake deserts, learn to dance, etc. Then "date" very well to wow.

@Secespitus I'm very tempted to put a comment on that answer saying that the player identifies as female and so, use of female pronouns etc. would be preferred

Although strangly enough (this was in the early '90s) most girls just wanted me to set the clock on their VCR.

@Mithrandir24601 Indeed, it is disrespectful to not use that person’s preferred pronoun.

@Mithrandir24601 I am, too. Every time I try to read this thing. But I never managed to read the whole thing.

And I don't want to get into this sort of debate.

9:03 AM

@FerretCivilization It’s "don't ask/don't tell" anything before we met.

Ha heh. Well I have been up for a while, going say goodnight myself.

@FerretCivilization Night!

@FerretCivilization Good night

That's some timing for ya: cam.ac.uk/research/features/…

"do we actually need gender categories?" YES - finally, someone with sense who's actually working in this area :D

(as in, no we don't need gender categories)

Anybody else remember what it was like to write before live spell-check?

Journeyman Geek

9:38 AM

quite bad

;p

Totally changed my life

A: Sandbox for Proposed Questions

11:09 AM

Back.....

And come to think of it, @FerretCivilization and @Shalvenay. You two make good points. But again, the invasion of Earth did not begin IMMEDIATELY. It took some time to figure out human languages and on top of that, it also took time to translate our information from the Internet as well as figure out our planet's military communications capabilities.

After all: you need to do your homework before you start invading, but I do want to know. How long would all that take?

At least before they start the initial barrage of kinetic strikes?

Feeds

1:29 PM

0

HOW CAN THIS MONARCHY ENSURE THE LOYALTY OF THE NATION'S ROYAL CLANS? This empire is controlled by a constitutional monarchy in which it's ruler has absolute authority over the country, only surpassed by the church. The country is divided up into a feudal-like clan system. Smaller clans pay homa...

2:28 PM

What do people think of a telescope tag? Would it get enough usage?

Good morning @HDE226868

@JDługosz Morning.

@HDE226868 See if there are a bunch of questions that could use it.

@HDE226868 There are quite a few questions containing the word

Might be a good idea.

@JDługosz Yeah, I've been doing that.

2:31 PM

Hello @NoahRogers, good to see you found the chat

I checked your profile and it seems you still need 6 more reputation to write something here... I already upvoted your edited question, so there is not much more that I can do for you in that regard. As I commented you could try to edit or answer something on the site that you see to get the rep needed.

And also hello @Noctrine, I think we haven't met before.

Noctrine

@Secespitus Hello

And yeah I oft forget to click "rejoin all"

Interesting. I don't even know where that button is.

3:05 PM

@Secespitus Do you have any other favourited rooms? if so it should be just above the star board.

@Bellerophon I favourited the Reopen/Closure room we had for a while, but it's frozen. So maybe that's why it's not shown.

Hmm, vote open appears when I add it.

I just left the Universe Factory chat and then the button appeared after reloading the page :D

So I only see it if I am in exactly one room.

@Secespitus Yes.

Okay, thanks.

AndyD273

4:09 PM

@NoahRogers I gave you another vote so you are over the rep threshold to chat.

Noah Rogers

Thanks by the way. Just saw that

@SerbanTanasa That was a pretty fun question to answer.

I was also relieved that my initial approximation worked.

Q: What hardships would humans face experience colonizing a nearby habitable world

@NoahRogers Your question is up to 3 reopen votes so it might get there.

4

My story involves a groups of colonists from a near post-apocalyptic Earth settling on a nearby, newly discovered habitable world, each colony separated and unknown to the others. Throughout the centuries, these colonists populate the planet and expand their colonies eventually discovering each o...

science-fiction space-colonization far-future

Anyone who hasn't put in a vote please read through it.

I'd cast the 5th reopen vote, if someone casts another to make it 4.

Do mod powers restrict casting normal reopen votes?

If so that sucks.

4:24 PM

They do. The point is that we know the site well enough that we should probably be sure of our convictions - in other words, it's assumed that a mod has a good understanding of the scope and how to apply it. An unintentional benefit, IMHO, is that it sometimes deters mods from voting to reopen or close, which can make a community less reliant on them and more dependent on community moderation - which is healthier.

Not all sites have the community moderation that we have here.

In other words, I really appreciate that y'all do what you do to keep the site running!

3

AndyD273

@HDE226868 ok

Done.

Noah Rogers

4:43 PM

Thanks guys. Appreciate it

5:16 PM

@FutureHistorian Well as long as you make it clear it was not an Independence Day walk in the park.

Noah Rogers

7:13 PM

@FutureHistorian what did you mean?

@JDługosz About the script you uploaded: typo on the second page, bottom "lowering his head". Interesting scene. The tales are pretty interesting and while the concert one feels a bit long for such a situation it still fits in well with how they act. One thing that irks me a bit is that the MC is ignoring the other couple pretty much in the last round (flowers), while you say that he normally tries to get more out of them. I feel like just asking the audience is a bit short in that moment.

7:54 PM

@FerretCivilization? Still, within what we know in science, any ideas as to HOW they could get access to the Internet?

And possibly find some means of coordinating the Resistance outside the local level?

I am not knowledgeable at all in the subject of computer communication. I just know even within our technology alone there are lost bits of stuff due to incompatibility. First thing that comes to mind with that is how the US lost the original plans for the first craft into space. And I really oversimplified that, wow.

@FutureHistorian Depends if the internet is still running.

That too, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_dark_age (Digital Dark Age.)

Well, the pre-Invasion Internet is likely.......well, non-existent, considering the servers are all destroyed and their information has been lost at least to humanity, though the Visitors can still access the remnants of the pre-Invasion satellite network to access the Internet, possibly from any of the servers in the spacecraft, while the GPI is trying to build new servers to make a new Internet, albeit inaccessible to the general public for "security reasons".

So obviously the rebels can't use the internet until it is rebuilt.

8:07 PM

And that is probably going to be the biggest unsolved mystery, how did their computers communicate with ours in the first place, ha.

So, the GPI equivalent of the Internet is limited to high ranking political officials and the GPI's military and law enforcement units only, and even then, anything being transmitted in it is possibly being kept an extremely tight eye on by the Visitors themselves as to root out any potential infiltrators.

So, if you have been implanted as an informant deep inside the GPI's very top and you want to obtain some piece of information, that may be difficult, since the Visitors are ALWAYS keeping an eye on things.

And even the slightest bit of suspicion is likely going to end in your own death.

As in: immediately.

Also even without satellites most information travels through undersea cables, sciencefriday.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/13074-1.JPG

@FerretCivilization They nicked ours and reverse engineered them.

No trial, no execution (in a public way), and immediately, your records are deleted, your corpse is burned to a crisp and anyone who remembers you even existed will share a similar fate.

Is there some resource other than the Rules of Peer Moderation Rule 8 stating that you shouldn't answer questions that you voted to close? I've been refering people who do that to this post whenever it happens but it's quite old and I couldn't find anything like that in the privilege descriptions of the Help Center.

8:11 PM

How is their internet run? Cables or satellite?

So, like in 1984's Oceania, you are unpersoned, albeit you are not the only one who gets unpersoned in the process.

Yeah that is the simple way of doing it Bellerophon, just means we can do the same to them.
Both, it depends. Heard the joke NZ internet is so slow cause they are the end of the line for internet undersea connection.

@Bellerophon? While @FerretCivilization does make a point, the cables are useless without their servers, when you think about it.

@Secespitus I don't think there is anything newer. Maybe ask about it because I've noticed people answering question they have ether voted to close or in a few cases people state in their answer that the question should be closed.

@FutureHistorian Which is why we need to know how the GPI runs its internet. Cables or satellites?

Yeah it buys like a few days tops if they do not get maintenance. At least it is not openly broadcasted to space, making some secret communication at the start possible.

8:15 PM

And most of those servers are in major cities worldwide, and since those are all destroyed (with most being abandoned after the Invasion, not counting the GPI's reconstruction effort on those few cities of "economic, political, cultural and historical importance"), then the servers in those cities were probably replaced by new servers, but the only ones who can use it are the GPI's military, police (normal and secret) and also high-level politicians within the GPI.

@Bellerophon Maybe I will write a Meta Post about that tomorrow. It's already pretty late and I won't be online much longer. But now that you mention it I noticed a few posts starting with "This is pretty broad, but anyway, here goes:" or similar phrases. Might really be worth starting a discussion about this again.

As for the GPI Internet. They use both means.

So the existing cables are still intact and connected.

Most through undersea cables and for more remote locations, they use satellites + the main spacecraft from the Invasion.

Which never really left the Solar System or even Cislunar space for that matter.

So to access the internet all they need to do is connect a computer to the cable.

8:18 PM

It may not be exactly still in orbit, but the Moon is close enough that, if necessary, it could return to LEO and begin operations for both deploying direct troops and orbital strikes.

Which is probably why I will still be cheering for Alaska and Northern Canada. Since they have lines not connected to major cities.

Oh and the servers on the Visitor spacecraft can be accessed, but they can only be accessed by the very top of the GPI and the Visitor invasion force's top commanding officers, the latter of which is controlled by the very commander of the Invasion force, which the GPI refers to as CINCSOL, which is basically Commander-in-Chief Sol System, though that is just the GPI, not the rank of CINCSOL, how he is referred to by other Visitors, and the Visitors will NEVER refer to him as such.

Sounds like a weak point in the chain.

After all: there is probably a bunch of commanders controlling Visitor forces across every region of Earth, which are subordinate to commanders controlling forces across the planet's 7 continents, but CINCSOL, as the GPI refers him/her as, has the final say on the overall strategic operations not only on Earth but as the title implies, all across the Solar System, if the GPI keeps their grip on Earth for a longer time, there could be some GPI officers referring to a CINCTERRA or something.

And CINCSOL is also subordinate to the orders from the origin point where they left from, either from the homeworld or a colony, likely a colony, though he/she is allowed to operate with near-complete independence, mainly due to the distances involved in this kind of operation, not to mention the fact that communications between star systems takes years.

So, for example: if CINCSOL receives orders from his superiors at the origin point, then by the time those orders get there, the situation on both the transmitting and receiving end (in this case, the origin point of the spacecraft and our Solar System) could have changed dramatically.

8:38 PM

Sounds just like the analogue to the colonies of the past, ha.

NOTE: When I say "controlled" by CINCSOL, I refer to him being the one in charge of the overall strategic directives across the Solar System by Visitor forces and their GPI puppets. There are still a bunch of deputies that could replace him in case something happens, and also subordinate officers for every continent and region of Earth, though the more time the Visitors spend in the Solar System, the chances that a CINCTERRA could emerge for example become higher.

Actually, come to think of it, does this mean that the invasion force at this point functions as a sort of de facto nation of its own?

Maybe probably pretty much.

@FutureHistorian Yes.

Then again, there is the option of sending colonists to populate Earth, as long as the Resistance is kept in check, or wiped out, and one day, perhaps render humans a minority on their own planet....?

chuckles nervously

Also how much food did they pack, or they sustainable in their own ship.

8:42 PM

@FerretCivilization? They kind of.......are self-sustaining (hence the 5 to 7 km in diameter size of the spacecraft, even though it is even longer when considering the antimatter engines and required radiators, which make it a total of 300 km in diameter, which is just the main spacecraft, but add in the antimatter staging, both for acceleration and deceleration).

Just checking, ha.

What I was thinking is that this spacecraft is multi-stage on construction. There is the main spacecraft, which uses nuclear pulse fusion to propel itself across interplanetary distances, and then there is the antimatter stages, which are usually ~150 km each, counting thruss, radiators, the engines themselves, the antimatter tanks, etc.

When they arrive, though, they are about to ditch the deceleration stage, which is when the New Horizons probe takes visual confirmation, though by the time SETI announces their discovery to the general public, the spacecraft just spent the last of its antimatter propellant and begins to separate the antimatter stage flying by Saturn, though flying close enough to Saturn that the deceleration stage can be captured by Saturn's orbit and then reenter the atmosphere where it will burn to a crisp.

Past that, the spacecraft uses the fusion engines to head on a trajectory towards LEO and enters it at an altitude of 1,500 km from Earth's surface.

Was this suppose to be a one way trip for them?

Well, yes and no.

A one-way trip in the short-term, yes. In the long-term? They could just replace the antimatter stages, given enough time, effort, resources and infrastructure.

Convenient.

8:50 PM

The problem with that plan, though, now that I think about it, is getting the infrastructure part done, though it is cheaper than just adding two more antimatter stages.

Especially if you consider......well, pesky natives on Earth could try something at any minute. How do you expect them to quickly set up particle accelerators on Mercury, which may span the planet, when the third planet in the system still has natives resisting you?

Indeed, and Earth like pointed out in many criticisms of alien invasions, is that there are plenty of other planets to set up the infrastructure to build stuff without hostile natives.

True.

But at least they have the capacity to wipe out the natives if they wanted to, they just did not have that as their objective, and will only do so when the natives get too out of hand. As for the infrastructure.....that has NOTHING to do with why they invaded Earth, as you already know.

And even though the natives putting up resistance do NOT have access to your technological assets, not counting black market dealers selling stolen GPI weapons and equipment, you still have a few natives your technology specifically to crush other natives that are resisting your conquest of the planet. So, even the slightest sign that they could turn on you is bad news.

Err......oops.

I was going to edit that post, but I accidentally deleted it.

Why did the Visitors give any of their technology to the natives in the first place, ha.
Also kind of unrelated, you watch Terrible Writing Advice.

Oh well.

A little bit, yes.

@FerretCivilization. When you think about it, it was not entirely misguided.

Though still concerning.

Basically, they were using Visitor technology, but not against the Visitors, but their fellow natives.

Which was the point. Make the GPI's job easier in crushing the remaining pockets of resistance across the globe.

Well the way they invaded everyone, then gave technology. Could have pulled a American colonization move and gave technology to have people destroy each other.
Though I guess that is a nice mix.

9:04 PM

Well, in the long-term, the GPI is going to probably be dissolved once the Visitors start bringing in colonists, IF the Resistance has yet to liberate Earth by then or is wiped out.

So, the GPI is meant as a temporary setup until that point.

That is.......if it happens.

@FerretCivilization? About your comment, the principle that the Visitors took when forming the GPI was "Well, if the natives are still willing to resist our conquest of their planet, then why not just use their own fellow natives against them?", which basically means some humans doing the dirty work for them.

What is sad is after being pretty much nuked in the face. As much as I would want to be we united, I could see people still willing to fight each other for the one that just nuked us hard.

Well, technically, nuclear weapons were used by the national armies that had access to them during the Invasion (i.e., SLBMs, a few strategic bombers, and some tactical nuclear weapons), though I do understand the point, even though the initial bombardment of Earth was not through nuclear weapons but kinetic strikes.

Still, I get the point.

After all: what do the Visitors have to offer (other than a better version of your home, a better job, and safety) that the Resistance cannot offer that easily?

As an American insert obligatory Freedom yell here.

Could they just do what ADVENT did shortly after the Elders conquered Earth in the first reboot XCOM game and up until the events of XCOM 2, which was basically eradicate a LOT of the pre-Invasion era diseases through gene therapy?

Though then again, in XCOM 2, that whole "gene therapy" thing was less because of altruism and more as a propaganda/PR move to convince people to join the city centres in the game, and is revealed to have a more.......shady purpose than simply curing our planet's ailments.

Sounds like a dangerous plot by the aliens to put kill switches in Humans, ha.

9:15 PM

It is an option, but I could have that be for real this time.

As in: unlike ADVENT from XCOM 2, they are not having a shady purpose for those gene therapy clinics, though it is still for propaganda reasons rather than altruism.

"They" being the GPI.

Though I guess if you were being really real about it then it would set up a little moral ambiguity... Oh, probably not as much, ha.

Well, there is never a 100% good or 100% evil point of view.

In fact, it is all relative.

After all: some groups in the Resistance have resorted to outright terrorism, though again, not every Resistance group is a terrorist organisation.

Pff all alien stories have the clear good and bad guys.

In fact, one of the Resistance groups could be a new ISIL, though instead of fighting against the "infidel Westerners", they are fighting against "the Shaytani and their infidel puppets".

Good point. Not this one, though.

This one is less clear about who is good and who is bad.

Yeah you trying the impossible, don't let Hollywood touch it, heh.

9:25 PM

On one hand, the Invasion of Earth did destroy civilisation as know it, but on the other hand, the Visitors cured a lot of Earth's ailments, gave us better weapons and technology and did rebuilt some of our major cities after they conquered Earth, so in spite of the fact they want to impose their culture on humanity, could learning said culture be all that bad?

I don't know what level is this 'learning alien culture at.' Like nowadays multiculturalism or colonial days cultural genocide.

After all: the Resistance may want to give Earth back its independence, and may have the offer of taking back our freedoms that were lost when the Visitors conquered Earth, but the fact that some groups are resorting to terrorism, the fact that even if they succeeded, they would turn on each other at any minute, and the fact that they still hold on to their pre-Invasion cultural identities could mean that some of the pre-Invasion issues Earth had could come back.

Well, @FerretCivilization. It could go either way.

And although the original intent is more of the latter, things could change by the time Visitor colonists begin showing up on Earth (assuming the Resistance failed or has not retaken Earth by then).

Hmm... What movie was that... The Invasion? Yeah I think that was the one. Realized that one was probably in the grey moral area.

After all: the commanders, although subject to the orders from their origin point, are de facto independent, so their strategy on how to impose their culture on Earth could change in the long-term.

But the initial strategy is cultural genocide.

And meanwhile what are the Exterminators doing?

9:48 PM

The Exterminators are still Visitors, which want to just skip the cultural genocide part and finish off the remaining 4 billion humans.

Gives a Hell of a rallying call on to not trust the Visitors.

And as the Visitors' strategies begin to be reassessed, based on the current situation, the Invasion Force may have to deal with renegades such as the Exterminators and the Negotiators, which the Loyalists view as traitors at this point.

The Exterminators attempted to seize control of the Invasion Force, failed horribly and broke away from the main invasion force by fleeing to Earth and also establishing other Moon bases beyond the Lunar South Pole, while the Negotiators were disgusted afterwards and fled to Earth in order to aid the Resistance by any means necessary in an act of open defiance.

Oh yeah in that last part was another reason I said if the rebels win they would have alien technology not just from reverse engineering it themselves but those friendly Visitors too.

Yes, but by then, the friendly Visitors were already dead, albeit not in vain.

What did they die from... Actually yeah without their food and stuff they are pretty much dead.

9:55 PM

Still, though, would humanity be prepared by the time the Visitors return?

How long did it take for the first ship to arrive?

That is why I needed to know the origin point.

It is obviously not the homeworld (Kepler 452b), since it is too far away.

So, the closest colony at the time they left has to be outside of Earth's 100 light year range, but within a range of 250 light years in radius relative to Earth. Aka: well beyond our pre-Invasion telescopes' detection range for radio signals, but also within the range of getting to Earth in a reasonable (by their standards) timeframe.

With the nearest star system being like four light years away from us, maybe call that the minimum time frame before it becomes borrowed time? And unless they travel faster than light there is no reasonable time frame for that, ha, must live long lifes.

Besides, they are going at 0.75 c anyway, so relativistic effects will kick in over time, though depending on how far the closest colony to Earth was when they left will mean that the officer corps will have to be either in cryonics or have radical life extension available to them, while the troops could be bred for generations onboard the bloody thing, relativistic effects or not.

Well, if there was a colony on Proxima b, humanity would have noticed by now.

In fact, the spacecraft heading for Earth was not the only "near relativistic anomaly" we detected. There were others, and all heading to systems within a 100 light year radius from Earth, either to be colonised or to subjugate other species in the selected systems.

It would not have to be a colony, that would just be where the reinforcements are on their way to Earth. Something that the friendly aliens could inform the rebels of, be like you got this long to win or lose.

10:01 PM

Proxima b may be one of these systems, so it could be a Visitor colony, though not exactly when they first left for Earth.

Perhaps by the time they arrive, but not when they are about to head off on what appears to be a one-way trip.

@FerretCivilization? We still need to know where both the initial invasion force and those reinforcements could originate from.

Originate from? Not so much, you would just have to know the distance between the first invasion force and the second.

So, what system that could host planets (preferably habitable, even if they are still undetected) could be within the range I determined?

Well, they both need to come from somewhere.

And they both need to receive orders from somewhere, and it is probably NOT the home world, considering that Kepler 452b is too far away for any viable orders to reach them by then.

Well given the distances you are working with being reasonable with no faster than light communications. You already acknowledged it would be a slow system. Mind as well just say they send out big fleets, that break up into little scout forces, that send out an actual force to their planned location after a set period of time. And then when communications get back to the big fleet on how it turned out they go from there.

So......you think the initial invasion force was an actual force or just a scout force?

Then again, the Visitors also have colonies being set up across the Galaxy, possibly in self-sustaining arks, only for less militaristic purposes.

So? Do you think the invasion force that subjugated Earth was a scout force or an actual force, albeit not as large as the big one?

Scout force since you said one ship, the actual force is the group or bigger fish that can destroy the planet. And yeah it can work for colonies too, just trying to give the biggest sense of independence. Just have command move with the major forces. With the main force being at home. Break it down with big forces that move out so far as planned to keep in reasonable touch.

Then have smaller forces move out from the big force to stay in reasonable touch. And just keep doing something like that. My two cents, ha.

10:15 PM

So, basically, their top leaders (at least the ones involved in the Invasion) are basically mobile in terms of where their central command is located?

Interesting.......

So, if this really was a scout force, we have not seen the worst the Visitors can offer humanity.

Pretty much something like that yeah.

Then again, the scout force can become an actual force in the long-term, if they can set up infrastructure and the like and break away from the main force if they wanted to, while making their own version of it.

At least before the main force they are currently part of shows up.

That is what I meant by just keep doing something like that when I said keep breaking in down. It turns into a relay. A smaller force would get word from a closer bigger more authority force that could keep going all the way up and back to their home planet. Thus small issues and problems could be fixed faster than having everything go to a single planet that could vary in response time.

Still, planetary settlements, asteroid colonies, orbital settlements and the like are a thing.

They are just not as efficient as their mobile equivalents (i.e. the bigger force the initial invasion force directed against Earth was part of), but they still exist.

Yes and relying on those after a certain range starts to become a liability. Once a settlement is set up and secure they could have their own communication methods and slowly become hubs for the big fleets to spread out around. Redoing the process all over again. Major news would still get around if needed.

10:24 PM

Hmmmmm. Come to think of it, the spacers (aka: the populations that are living on arks, orbital habitats, asteroid settlements and self-sustaining forces) could see evolutionary, cultural, economic, social and political changes that could be just as interesting as those of the surface colonists (aka: planets and moons that have been permanently settled).

Especially when compared to the homeworld.

Probably, seem to have a colonial England going on, ha.

In fact, the Visitor force we are seeing, is probably a descendant of the original species that first left Kepler 452b.

Then again, we need to figure out how the original species is biologically like first before delving into the evolutionary adaptations the ones we encounter have when they arrive to Earth.

That is all you there, ha. Probably say they breath oxygen and use water. Otherwise Earth becomes more questionable to even deal with.

Be like Signs, the aliens are allergic to the water. Laugh track.

In fact, for all we know, there are probably some Visitor colonies, that are not even organic, and spacecraft that may not even be crewed by an organic Visitor, but whole brain emulations of the Visitors' consciousnesses, small spacecraft that could host thousands of Visitor whole brain emulations and a few of these colonies may even be either just a single structure that is creating a simulated reality where these emulations live, or the planet the colony is in could be a giant computer.

Well if you want Transcendence sure why not.

10:33 PM

Which could serve as the basis for a Matrioshka Brain after they begin construction on some Dyson Swarms (which happened while the initial force and their reinforcements were still in deep space, though it is still under construction).

Thankfully for humanity, Earth is not going to be converted into a giant planet-sized computer because the ones we encounter are still biological, albeit not the same as the original species, given either genetic engineering or millennia of being in low gravity changing their biology.

Could work, how would you be fitting that exposition dump in your story though if it is not a threat, or probably even worth knowing by Humans.

So, the Visitors we encounter are not the ones in whole brain emulations, so fortunately, the surviving humans will not become whole brain emulations themselves as they turn Earth into a planet-sized computer.

Exactly. We can save that for another story set in the same universe.

Ha, cool cool then.

Still, it would be nice if this kind of situation was able to eventually expand the story elsewhere into the Galaxy, while the events that transpire on Earth may be just a small piece of the puzzle in the grand scheme of things.

You said before other aliens have lost thus explaining why this group is being a little sloppy. Maybe do prequels, lots and lots of prequels.

10:46 PM

So, even if humanity was free from the Visitors and somehow miraculously survived the reinforcements (which is unlikely anyway), the events that transpired in the Solar System will not exactly have an effect on the Visitors as a species, just the ones that were involved in the events that transpired in that one irrelevant system's third planet, where a bunch of irrelevant, persistent and pesky natives struggled to hold the line against the night, even though it does not really matter.

In fact, the human species will barely even make a dent in the overall interstellar community, which includes the Visitors, the species they subjugated, other species that are still oblivious to the course of interstellar history and a few species that developed interstellar travel independently from the Visitors, and are all unaware the other exists at this time.

Pretty much.

And most of the species that are oblivious to the events transporting beyond their home systems might either self-destruct, be destroyed by natural cataclysms, or be subjugated in some form, or even exterminated by one of the few interstellar civilisations in the Galaxy.

Humanity before the Invasion was one such species and the last category was what happened to them, albeit they refused to go down without a fight.

Make for some first story. Long story of a fight with hope spots just to end with, and then they all died. Now lets move onto what happened in the rest of the galactic area.

So, the Resistance is able to liberate Earth (either due to some blunder the Visitors make, the factionalism getting out of control, the GPI just being too incompetent by this point, a combination of either of these or all three), only to face a bigger invasion force, which could either mean the end of humanity, or they somehow miraculously manage to beat them back as well, though realistically, humanity is finished.

Unless someone else comes up with some complaints I guess it looks good to me, ha.

10:54 PM

Fair enough.

I wonder how the Visitor colonists on Earth after the Second Human-[insert native name for the Visitors here] War could see the First Human-[insert native name for the Visitors here] War.

And how humanity was like prior to their extermination.

Because admittedly, for a bunch of pesky primitives, we were very persistent and resilient.

Probably how did they lose to a bunch of backwards hairless apes. And then go on with their life.

True.

Hmmmmm. Come to think of it, what happens to Earth after the Visitors return? RKV or nuclear wasteland?

Because an RKV = possibly Earth's crust being molten clean off, which means no Visitor colonists on Earth. A nuclear wasteland, though, could mean that the planet gets some time to recover, and when the radiation clears out, the Visitors just set up shop and colonise Earth.

Well if Visitors 2.0 are fully mechanical I would suppose radiation would not bother them. Melting the planet... Yeah.

Well, then again, you have to remember that when the Visitor constellation that the initial invasion force was part of left for deep space, they were biological. Why would the rest of the Visitor forces be whole brain emulations by the time they return to Earth, if they were biological when the scout force left for Earth?

True, I guess another thing would be that they have better cures for dealing with radiation than we do, I mean unless their ships were fully protected rocks they already are getting a large dose around any stars, heh.

11:05 PM

True. Even genetic adaptations to radiation.

Though then again, just because Earth was nuked into oblivion by the reinforcements the Visitors had does NOT mean that they could have the capacity to settle Earth. Does it?

If they relied on their ship for sustainability while setting up all the infrastructure nuclear winter should not bother them that much as they would not have to deal with it all the time.

11:32 PM

@Secespitus Thanks. I made notes for when I edit that again. Maybe I can cut the rationalizing and just say they went.

Shalvenay

11:49 PM

hello there @WilliamKumler

William Kumler

Hey @Shalvenay, what's up?

Shalvenay

not a whole lot, welcome to the craziness that is WB.SE :)

William Kumler

No kidding- I can't believe how inventive everyone is!

It's made me want to write a lot more, a lot of these questions are incredibly inspiring