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00:00 - 17:0017:00 - 00:00

17:00
Fish sauce is common in Thai cooking. It's a very strong seasoning liquid. It adds salt and a lot of umami.
Make with fermented fish. Anchovies usually, I think.
Pork is called "the other white meat" in American advertising. Pork tenderloin is one of the leanest types of meat you can buy, it's comparable to skinless chicken breast that way.
I would say it is no more or less "healthy" than any other meat. Like everything else, fine in moderation.
Here's a Thai curry that is very highly rated: bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/2838670/thai-pork-and-peanut-curry
Despite cans having a date on them, is there any reason to suspect them not to preserve food for, say, 50 years?
Maybe a can today might last for the next 50 years, but a can from 50 years ago would be corroded by now.
@Jolenealaska That's fine. I'm forward-looking.
But what about the food?
Hmm...I'm not sure. I would say something acidic might last (canned tomatoes), but the acid might adversely affect the can in that period of time.
I have opened old cans of vegetables (5 years, maybe?) and found them to be quite "off". I've also open cans that age that seemed like they were canned yesterday.
17:18
@Jolenealaska A 30-year claim is made here, in Dutch, from 23:00. For a sheep. :)
I wouldn't dismiss the claim automatically. They may be using materials that can stand up to it. If the food is sterilized and the can is completely secure and doesn't break down- who knows?
@GlenTheUdderboat I once came upon an old can of tomatenpuree. It was bad. It looked normal, but it tasted bad.
It was maybe a few years past the expiration date.
@Cerberus You eat tomatenpuree straight up?!
Usually not, why?
Well, how did you figure out it was the tomatenpuree that tasted bad? (NB: Also, tomatenpuree is among the three cheapest items in the supermarkt.)
I forgot the other two.
17:31
I taste things before I use them. Don't you?
Why not?
Especially if they're old and canned.Hi Cerby!
I have bad taste. I am told.
Hello.
Then let your wife buy your clothes.
17:33
and taste the tomatoes.
I must also say that I am sort of surprised that you must fry tomatenpuree before mixing it in. I don't quite get that.
It depends upon what you're making. That's far from a hard and fast rule.
For the flavor caused by the browning. Tomato puree adds a "meaty" flavor, frying it first is like browning meat before braising. It's optional.
Oh, OK. Thanks!
17:47
NP:)
I noticed that the Cameron Highlands are producing lots of tea and strawberries. Is this just a colonialist coincidence, or is there another reason?
"The Cameron Highlands is one of the few places in Malaysia that is blessed with a tropical highland climate"- Wiki
@Jolenealaska OK, but does a tropical highland climate only allow for the production of tea and strawberries then?
No, but it's well suited for it.
I wonder if - at the time - strawberries could be transported to England. I am assuming that they were/are not much part of the local cuisine.
I suppose they freeze them now.
Or maybe they canned them earlier!
18:24
@Jolenealaska I see.
@Jolenealaska Fair enough.
@Jolenealaska Thanks.
Any time :)
19:18
This recipe Makes 2 1/2 pounds of dough
How much is needed for torte Milanese @Jolen?
Never mind, found it
19:37
@Jolenealaska missed me by moments, missus
whistles
20:07
@BESW hello
Hi! What's new?
oh, not much
just planning photo trips
Shiny.
quite
how are things in sunny Guamland
Kinda rainy, actually.
20:10
well, into every life a little rain must fall
20:36
@derobert sorry that you didn't get the Unix mod position. I still think you would have made a good mod.
@rumtscho Its OK. Someone ran the numbers, and apparently R^2 vs. rep is 0.99... I haven't double-checked (or even sanity-checked) that, but...
Hard to be too disappointed when it turns out everyone just votes for people in rep order
Well, disappointed in humanity, sure :-P
@derobert It makes sense. I think I got my own mod position similarly.
It'd be interesting to grab all the SE election results, across all the sites, and see how strong the correlation is.
@derobert I'm not sure it is a disappointment in humanity. After all, rep is based on popularity. Voting for mod too. It would have been more worrisome if the correlation was low - this would mean that at least one is an unreliable measure of popularity.
@rumtscho Well, except voting is not supposed to be a measure of popularity. It often is, but...
I mean, why do we bother with candidate statements, answering questions, etc. if no one cares and they just vote based on rep?
20:41
@derobert I would be interested in it too. I even think it has good publication chances. If written well, it can get into Computers in Human Behavior - the topic is certainly a good fit.
@derobert because candidate statements etc. contribute to popularity. Even more, because a missing or a bad candidate statement subtracts from popularity a lot.
Do you know the Kano model? Many things we do are the kind of basic factor which doesn't bring satisfaction if present, but do bring high dissatisfaction if absent. Satisfaction is a very fickle beast.
@rumtscho That'd be an interesting hypothesis to test. I mean, the answers are at meta.unix.stackexchange.com/questions/2980/…; viewed 383 times.
@derobert Not everyone. :-) You were my first choice. :-)
@derobert though I'm not really sure why you wanted the job. Sounds like it would be a bit of a slog.
@FaheemMitha Mine too, but he was the only person on the list who was popular with me, so I can't count that as evidence against the hypothesis.
... and I should note 383 is fewer than the number of people who voted.
4,386 voters were eligible, 1,766 visited the site during the election, 992 visited the election page, and 580 voted
@derobert What is the significance of 383?
20:45
@FaheemMitha Number of times the mod q&a question was visited.
Which means ~200 people voted without even visiting the q&a page.
@derobert Oh, right.
That's actually a pretty low number. Is it even counting unique IP addresses?
@FaheemMitha It is actually somewhat on the low side
@rumtscho Hmm.
In general, the "view" numbers you see on SE sites are conservative. This is because they can't be 100% sure whom to count, but with questions, it is important to them to catch the minimal number. SEO and so on. It is a bad idea for moderator qa pages, but I don't think they would create a new mechanism for it.
Well, its probably more: we have no way to know how many of those 383 visits occurred after the election (its showing more now), how many of those people actually read all the statements (which is a good half hour of time, probably)...
20:49
Frankly, I read the statements but found that none of them was sufficient for me to make a decision.
All of them seemed good and consistent with the person making a good mod. No exceptionally bad ones beside the one-liner, no exceptionally good ones. So I voted based on conviction gained through other means - in this case knowing you and having seen your willingness to contribute to both the content and administrative tasks in a community, and the quality of your administrative contribution.
@rumtscho I don't think I voted based on popularity, just on who I thought would make a good mod. One important criterion is whether I thought the person would stick around. Which, per Laplace, was heavily predicated on whether he had been around for a while already. :-)
I only knew it from cooking, but I assumed that you won't change your behavior on Unix, a site where you have more rep than here.
@rumtscho I know the feeling. A bunch of SE sites bug me to vote in their elections. Mostly I go look at the candidates and wonder "who are these people? how on Earth am I to decide???"
@derobert Yes, if you don't know the people, no point in voting.
@FaheemMitha Yeah. That'd pretty much mean that there'd only be a dozen or two voters, though.
20:54
@derobert Not necessarily. Which site did you have in mind?
I am sure that I could have formed some ordering and made three choices based on the presentations on the mod qa page only if I had been forced to do so. And that it would have been better than throwing a fair dice. But I think that the UL community is better off if I don't do such a thing and leave the people who know everybody cast the full number of votes, and I only give a single vote to the person I know will do the job well.
@rumtscho I thought derobert was a good choice because he is (a) very calm and laid-back (b) exceptionally knowledgeable (c) around on the site a lot (d) very helpful.
Of course most of that applies to slm and terdon too.
@FaheemMitha On Unix & Linux. How many people actually interact with the candidates that much? I mean, you have to be around the site a lot before you actually interact with them, other than just seeing 'yeah, X answered another question'
@derobert It depends on how many questions and answers you read
@derobert Maybe, but I think the people who interacted with the candidates would be hight than a dozen of two, I'd have thought.
20:57
If you just happen to have read a dozen answers from each of the candidates, you can form a good picture.
A better one if you have read their meta questions and answers.
@rumtscho Well, people drift in and out of chat. Plus there are comments.
@FaheemMitha Maybe my experience is skewed by SO, but even while I was very active over there, I had a real hard time picking when an election came up
@derobert Well SO is huge. Plus people are not very friendly.
@FaheemMitha Sure, if you also read other contributions by them and about them, it's better. Still, a bunch of answers can be sufficient.
@derobert I actually have it easier picking on SO
Even though I'm not active there
There is just a huge variation in qa presentation quality there
@rumtscho Possibly. In my case, I knew all the main candidates on U&L. I would not even try on most other sites. On tex.sx I would have an idea too, but that site hardly needs mods.
21:00
so it's easy to pick the ones whose ideas are in line with mine
And there are a ton of people on tex.sx who would be good mods anyway.
Actually, I don't even know who the current tex.sx mods are, they are so invisible.
maybe because SO policy is much more controversial than on the smaller sites, and every one of them writes down something about his priorities and the vision of how he thinks a mod should influence a site, and in which direction.
Here on U&L, everybody said that the site is running well already and they don't intend to make changes
Yep. It was hard to come up with a platform, that's for sure.
which is probably a very good strategy if the site is already running well. But doesn't give enough decision criteria for a voter.
Huh, Joseph, Martin and Stefan. Who would have thought it? :-)
So, what do you guys think of italian food? I'd like to try lasagna again, but my effort to find a usable recipe never got off the ground.
21:04
There are a lot of lasagna recipes...
What went wrong with your previous attempt?
@FaheemMitha There, an example of a site where the highest rep users aren't the mods.
@derobert Dunno. I forget.
But of course, i don't know if the highest rep users ever ran.
@rumtscho They are all still pretty high rep though. And prominent.
@FaheemMitha Kenji had a good one, but I think his was vegetarian.
21:05
@rumtscho Neither are Unix.SE's highest rep users the mods. They didn't run.
@derobert Well, Gilles didn't. I wonder if he would have won, had he run.
@FaheemMitha Ah yes, I've never heard of a low rep moderator on an established site. The mods need some visibility before the election, and a proof of commitment too.
@rumtscho I can understand that. Having very low rep argues you're not really part of the site.
@rumtscho Joseph is a Latex 3 dev too.
But by this measure, I wouldn't consider derobert low-rep on U&L. He is just not in the highest of highest tiers. And the ones who won are higher than him.
21:07
@rumtscho vegetarian might be ok.
@rumtscho derobert isn't low rep.
Yeah. I'm apparently #11 overall.
hello all
@derobert, @rumtscho hello strangers
@derobert Right.
^ lasagna recipe
21:08
the seriouseats is a good site?
@ElendilTheTall hello again.
@FaheemMitha if you are a geek who likes cooking, The Food Lab is a must-read
@rumtscho Sounds yummy.
It is ran by an MIT graduate who goes crazy on finding the best recipe for whatever he currently concentrates on
@rumtscho Dunno about geek, but I have a cook. :-)
@rumtscho /me grumbles about atrocities...
21:09
@rumtscho Interesting.
The whole site is OK, with some pretty good stuff in the recipes section and very boring parts which never interest me, like "which was the tastiest sandwich we were served in Chicago last week"
How does veg lasagna compare to the meat variety? Or is that too subjective a question?
Their columns are quite good if you have the time for them, and Food Lab is something exceptional.
Yes, the Food Lab is amazing.
@FaheemMitha It would be subjective for the main site, but this is chat :)
I like both. They are good in their own way.
21:10
@rumtscho Ok. time to save the links for these recipes.
@FaheemMitha I'm not personally a huge lasagna fan. But I've had both veg and meat lasagnas that were very good.
Also, lasagna is a loosely-coupled high-cohesive modular dish :) You can take the recipe and use a meat sauce instead of the mushrooms.
@derobert I wasn't really an Italian food fan, but I once had an office near a small italian restaurant, which made me change my mind.
It won't be perfectly balanced, because Kenji really tunes his recipes. But I bet it will still make a damn good lasagna.
Veg. lasagna is a respectable dish, unlike a lot of vegetarian dishes which just want to pretend they have meat.
Of course, it's definitely not a health food :-)
21:13
well, bye
@ElendilTheTall oh hello @ElendilTheTall, and bye. Sorry for being too distracted to say hello before you had to go, I'm a bit too tired today to really pay attention to what I'm doing.
@FaheemMitha I can't say, I never do Asian.
This one is pretty much all meat, right? seriouseats.com/recipes/2011/12/…
@FaheemMitha Probably is good (especially for the time required), depending on the quality of the curry paste you use. Personally, I'm sure I'd add more heat to it.
@derobert ok
random pick from the net -> thisweekfordinner.com/2012/02/02/…
21:17
@FaheemMitha Yes, it's a pure meat recipe. Most people would search for a complementing recipe for a side dish to make a full meal out of it.
@FaheemMitha yes, that's a chunk-o-meat. Do note the quantity being prepared!
@rumtscho I guess that is a possible option.
Although I know some who would eat it as-is, and others who would like to combine it with wurst and meatloaf :)
@derobert As in a lot? :-)
@FaheemMitha Yes. 12 to 15lbs of pork belly
21:18
Enough for a small army.
aka ~6kg
@FaheemMitha no, just a traditional Italian family :)
@rumtscho :-)
1/2 pound of meat is plenty for one meal, imo.
8 oz?
A standard portion in Europe is between 140 and 190 g per person. This is the pure raw meat, excluding sides and sauces.
Pork belly has a lot of fat, I suspect as that cooks, it loses a lot of weight.
21:20
8 and more oz is an American thing.
@derobert Depends on the swine and its age, but a large amount stays.
@derobert Wouldn't that just run into the gravy?
Traditionally, it would be eaten along and considered a delicacy. This recipe has a decidedly before-20th-century feel, long before cholesterin was a word.
Still, it must lose a bit, as they're saying 12 lbs becomes 12 servings.
Maybe big servings.
I don't even read the "servings" info on recipes any more. The variation is high enough that I consider it useless. I usually look at the amount of the main ingredient and scale accordingly. Sometimes I'm still surprised, but less than when going by their servings info.
So, I still haven't touched that document since I asked about it. It's nice talking to you, but I still need to go back to work, and I just can't afford more procrastination at this time of day (actually night), sorry. See you later.
21:29
Wow, I'm still top 1% on SO.
@rumtscho appreciate the help with the recipes.
 
2 hours later…
23:04
@FaheemMitha I'm glad we could help. You are welcome to come again when you need recipes, that's what we are here for.
@rumtscho Thanks.
@FaheemMitha well, a caveat: we do it in chat, recipe swapping is off topic on the main site.
@rumtscho Yes, I'm aware of that.
But the chat is here for everything which main doesn't cover. Also all kinds of non-cooking stuff.
So, I'm off to bed. It was a tough day. Good night.
Good night!
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