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12:05 AM
@kitfox 'allo!
 
12:55 AM
@NeilFein oy!
I missed you again!
 
 
15 hours later…
3:42 PM
Hi @Neil.
 
@Kitfox - Hey! Can you give me ten minutes?
(I gotta do something real quick.)
 
For what?
 
I mean, BRB in 10.
 
Oh, I see.
Sure.
 
:)
 
3:46 PM
Hey everyone. No writing exercise from me yet this week.
 
My posse is on Broadway.
, said he to his wife as they were eating dinner at home.
There, done.
 
I hadn't really decided how I wanted to use the scene and didn't have much time to sit down and tackle it.
 
Hi @Reg.
 
Oh, crap. It's cut off! It's not posse, it's possessions.
 
Now, Mr.Shiny, she said sternly. You were the one who wanted this exercise.
 
3:48 PM
@KitFox Well... I wanted the exercise to have more structure. Not necessarily this exercise per se.
 
looks sternly
 
But I still want to do it. I'm just not sure when I'll be able to.
 
sterner
 
I read that as posse, so mine is about posse. Live with it.
 
3:48 PM
@RegDwightАΑA Yes! I get the joke. It's lulz.
 
@KitFox it's not a joke. It's reality.
, he continued looking over his wife through the window at their neighbors' weird possessions.
 
I see.
Well, in that case, would you please paste a link to your story, rather than writing it line by line into the transcript?
 
Now I just need to add a car and a dog, then I can turn it into a Stephen King bestseller.
 
Sounds more like Hemingway to me.
 
@KitFox I can mark the begin of my story in the transript.
 
3:51 PM
No. No. I'm afraid that won't do.
 
I never dunnit. High time I tried.
Everyone marks conversations left and right, zack, zack, zack.
 
Easy as pie.
But you've a limit on the number of lines.
And anyhow, rules is you gotta paste a link.
 
Well I can split it up. What's good for Tolkien is good for anyone.
@KitFox that would be step two.
 
Oh my holy goober. Are you just trying to make me feel better because there is no way that I am going to be a mod?
 
Whatchatalkin, It's only a couple hours till you get elected.
 
3:53 PM
@KitFox I like your story. it resembles the story I have in my head but haven't fully articulated.
 
Come now, you knows it will be the kitten and the green orc head!
 
Hello!
 
@KitFox That's the story you are writing.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 looks suspicious
@NeilFein Look, I brought friends.
 
ok I'm going to try to whip off a draft. Be back in 20.
 
3:54 PM
Nice!
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 OK, see you later!
 
Not friends, cheerleaders. Timefillers.
 
@Kitfox, I think you are our chatmeister. :)
 
Paraphrasing Archimedes, give me an amount of time, and I will fill it.
 
Well, apparently I totally pwned this room.
@RegDwightАΑA I wish I had filled you in.
 
3:56 PM
Right. You wish.
 
Anyway, I can't remember what I wanted to go over with you @Neil. Something about chats, but I should've told you then, even though I was knackered.
 
@kitfox - You totally made the chat here into an awesome one, and had questions about running a chat.
But you're obviously better at this than I am, so I'd say keep doing what you're doing.
 
Oh, maybe, we have let's say a few writers who are non-native speakers. It is hard to focus on the content of their writing, so it is difficult to critique. Should we focus on fixing the English first? Or is that inseparable from the expression?
Do you have an opinion or a strategy for that?
 
Writers that can't spell, or string a sentence together at all? If it's just a couple of questions, I'm not worried, but ESL is a completely different skill set than just writing better.
How does EL&U handle this?
25
Q: Is EL&U becoming ESL?

BenjolMaybe it's just me, but I get the feeling we are seeing an increasing number of English language learner questions. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but is it what we really want? Aren't we going to scare away (or just plain bore) the experts? Related question, (to which the accepted answer ...

 
Oh I don't mean on the main site. I mean in chat.
 
4:03 PM
On chat? What could possibly be the problem chatting?
Not seeing the problem, sorry. :)
 
We are doing writing exercises and critiques in chat.
 
Sounds like a good use of chat to me. Were there any problems with it?
 
Well, yes. I feel like I am not helping the NNSs as well as I might.
 
Do you have an example?
Hard to comment on generalities.
 
Let me look.
@NeilFein Here for instance.
 
4:19 PM
@KitFox - It's a combination of conversational idiom, like, the way someone just talks. But there's some business-speak tossed in, like "as per habit".
But the writing gets more consistent as it goes along, more unified and coherent. Maybe it just needs another draft.
Is that helpful?
 
I am not sure. You seem unconscious of the oddities of the language, but it makes it hard for me to concentrate on the story.
And I don't feel like I draw a clear line between personal style preferences and helpful advice.
 
Hello.
 
Hi @Cerb.
 
@KitFox In which chat?
 
@Cerberus This one.
 
4:25 PM
Ah OK.
 
It seems we are missing our usual crew today.
So maybe that's it for the Writers chat...we had a couple of good weeks, then pfft.
;D
 
(I agree about the style/distraction thing. Except that you can get over it after a few pages if the story is really gripping.)
@KitFox Nahh they probably just got in car accidents or something.
 
@KitFox - Short of doing a full line edit on the piece, all you can do is point out a few examples of the type of thing you find to be a problem and indicate that there are many others like this. Someone who has any writing ability at all and, critically, someone who wants to improve, will be able to make the connection.
 
OK. I will try that.
 
It also depends on why someone is writing. For publication? Or just for fun?
Relevant: Get Off My Lawn
 
4:31 PM
Ack! I hate the word "munch."
 
TL;DR - FanFic writer is perfectly happy writing work that's nowhere near good enough for pro publication. (This isn't fanfic, but...)
(Neil munches on his metaphorical bowl of cereal)
 
You are just being cruel.
 
Now I really am hungry.
 
@Matt Hey, you coming to chat?
 
4:37 PM
Ohai!
Mr.Shiny decided he wanted to toss off a draft before he joined us.
 
cool
I'm not sure I can do that
so I'll leave it for meow
 
Uh. OK. Well, then since noöne else is here, you want to do mine?
 
Meow.
 
So I have something
it's very draughty though
I don't want to put it on my blog
 
4:45 PM
Mine is too. Let's see yours.
 
any other suggestions as to where I can put it?
 
Pastebin or something?
 
pastebin... hm
ok give me a sec
 
I like it @Kit Interesting use of technology to increase and decrease separation at the same time
 
It's pretty rough. I just spewed it out last night.
 
4:52 PM
So today I learned that tossing off a draft takes more than 20 mins
 
And I've got to go for a bit.
I'll be back in maybe an hour?
See you then.
 
ok
anyone else want to read mine?
 
It's interesting. I like they way you've described the dynamic of the street
It convincing how you've got Marie always distracted from everything else.
I'm intrigued by the fragile boxes
 
anything you didn't like?
 
I'll give it another read...
 
5:06 PM
I think I might have to rename one or more characters... too many M names
My group of high-school friends was almost all M-names, for some reason. Mike, Mary, Matt, Mark, Martin, Megan, another Mike, plus some people had M last names instead of M first names...
 
:D
(afk - dinner)
 
@NeilFein Did you write that? Probably not? I was wondering why the "bait" is at all attractive to the bass here.
 
@Cerberus the bass is being polite
 
Yes, so why is it attractive?
 
@Cerberus well, it's not, except that he's trying to be nice to her.
 
5:14 PM
> There I am, a largemouth bass, relaxing in a clear pond minding my own business, when suddenly I sees a squirming minnow, just floating there looking delicious.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 This suggests otherwise.
I could not read it but with a sexual overtone.
Because it couldn't have been her attractiveness as a writer.
 
@Cerberus No, it's not mine. The last few paras in particular make an excellent point, I think.
 
The bass already knew she was writing fan fiction by then.
 
I read it as he is meant to find the bait attractive because she is a writer and thus they can talk as writers. However he is not actually attracted to the bait because he sees through her ploy.
 
@NeilFein Yes, I agree. It is exactly what I always think when I have correct or comment on someone's writing. You need to find some kind of standard or purpose as a starting point.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 But the "delicious" minnow is called that after she tells him that she writes fan fiction.
She pushed herself up in her seat. “Don’t laugh, but I write fanfic. Have you seen Vampire Diaries?”

“Heard of it.”

“Well, yeah, so I just write stories about those characters.”

There I am, a largemouth bass, relaxing in a clear pond minding my own business, when suddenly I sees a squirming minnow, just floating there looking delicious.
(Sorry, too lazy for a clean quote.)
 
I think it's meant to be a metaphor for what just happened. He was minding his own business when a minnow came along (a writer) only he saw the hook (a fanfic writer) but he was too polite not to bite
 
5:22 PM
I guess that's how it was intended.
I just felt the order was a bit odd.
 
so, cerb, when are you going to post some writing here?
 
Ehh perhaps someday I will.
I am glad you guys are enjoying it.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 it's not a criticism as such, but the piece is very dialogue centric. So much so that it felt weird when you dropped out of it to describe the emptiness of No.8
 
5:39 PM
@MattЭллен I use the same technique when discussing the Smiths later on... is it the format that's the problem? Any suggestion?
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I think it's OK later on because it's the main bit. In the earlier bit it seems like a corny voice over, interjecting. ...
 
It is an interjecting voice over :)
 
True. It just felt odd to me at that point.
like the narrator wanted to get in on the action.
I'd want someone to say it, but Marie is too distracted
and it doesn't make sense coming from Martin
 
Well, I could make the character say that stuff, but it's too much exposition... a husband and wife don't need to reiterate so much
What if I put all of Martin's dialogue together and the narrator at the end of that paragraph?
“You’ve been shut up in your workshop for a while, did you notice our new neighbours have finally moved in? I saw them unloading the truck, went over to introduce myself.” The house at Number 8 Kingston Crescent had stood empty for weeks and all the gossip on the street was speculation about who would be moving in, and when.
 
I prefer that, yeah :)
 
 
4 hours later…
9:25 PM
@KitFox so, was I right or was I right?
Welcome aboard.
 
9:52 PM
blushes Thanks @Reg.
 

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