AU Lens

Jorge Castro

19:20

@StefanoPalazzo ok all we need is a merge!

Stefano Palazzo

I'm a bit busy now, I'll get on it soon

ajmitch

@StefanoPalazzo I don't know if you saw my comment from yesterday, but please don't hardcode IP addresses in the lens :)

Marco Ceppi

@StefanoPalazzo Let me know if you want a DNS record setup for that server

Stefano Palazzo

I saw that

figured it's no worse than putting them into a configuration file

@MarcoCeppi that's a good idea. If you could assign any old domain name you've got lying around, we can at least switch servers if needed

Marco Ceppi

Right

ajmitch

19:31

domain name would be better, yes

Marco Ceppi

I'll just setup server1.domain and server2.domain so if need be we can just keep adding servers to the DNS list

George Edison

Even a subdomain would work fine (as in my case).

Marco Ceppi

maybe have a master list kept at domain.tld for fetching

George Edison

@MarcoCeppi Would it be smart to move mine to a similar naming scheme?

Marco Ceppi

I just registered audataserver.com - so we can put up a pointer for your server on that

George Edison

19:33

Cool!

One thing of note: my server is running on port 8046.

(Well, it runs on port 8045 too, but it doesn't use HTTP.)

Stefano Palazzo

nice

Marco Ceppi

That's fine. I think we'll probably need a way to report the list of current available servers or something. I'm sure @StefanoPalazzo could think of something small and clever to do that :)

George Edison

So would we do server1.audataserver.com, etc...?

@MarcoCeppi Like a database?

And then have a PHP script return a JSON list of them?

Marco Ceppi

Yeah, or just a json object with the list of availalble servers

pretty much

audataserver.com/available_servers somethign like that for a query string

Jorge Castro

always with the PHP George

ajmitch

19:36

burn it with fire

George Edison

Hey, I use Python too...

Stefano Palazzo

couldn't you do load balancing via DNS?

George Edison

...you'll get to see my Django skills once Ondina is ready.

@StefanoPalazzo Hmm... that's a thought.

Jorge Castro

heh

Marco Ceppi

@StefanoPalazzo Yes and no - it'd probably be better that way

Stefano Palazzo

19:36

I've never played with it, but you can do some kind of round-robin load balancing using only the DNS system, right?

ajmitch

yes, just add extra A records

Marco Ceppi

No way, Poor Man's Balancing is never a good idea

especially if one server is actually being crushed

ajmitch

it depends on how fancy you want to get

Marco Ceppi

It'd be better for each server to have a /status which reported it's load and implement true load balancing.

the /status being a simple version of the solution

George Edison

Hmm...

...so what does /status need to return?

Marco Ceppi

19:38

Could even USE JUJU to spin up more machines if need (<3 @JorgeCastro)

Jorge Castro

heh

Marco Ceppi

Probably just the machines current load, and it's maximum safe load?

Stefano Palazzo

that's a good call, but then you have a single point of #fail

Jorge Castro

I recommend just doing the 2 so we have something working and in the PPA

George Edison

@ajmitch ...and the data server doesn't use PHP - it's written in C++.

Marco Ceppi

19:38

IDK, it's new room time

Jorge Castro

and then go back and do the bikeshedding

George Edison

← 50 messages moved from Ask Ubuntu General Room

Stefano Palazzo

call this bike shed planning committee :D

George Edison

Back to my question...

ajmitch

blue!

George Edison

19:42

4 mins ago, by George Edison

...so what does /status need to return?

Jorge Castro

man I wish this chat had tabs

multiple rooms are so annoying

George Edison

@JorgeCastro I'll keep that in mind :)

Marco Ceppi

Stefano Palazzo

I propose that load balancing is done on the application level, so that there isn't a single server that can fail

thought it can always fall back on the API, I think that would make it speedier if there is lots of load on the custom search engines

Marco Ceppi

@StefanoPalazzo How would that be achieved? ping tests or actually checking server's status?

Wait, @GeorgeEdison, where is your data server physically located?

Stefano Palazzo

19:44

that's a difficult one. it's impossible to get it right without lots of testing.

simply, having the app choose a random server and discard servers that fail to respond for some period of time will work okay

Marco Ceppi

Let's simply work on the assumption that there are only two servers

George Edison

@MarcoCeppi Virginia, IIRC.

That's at least where @Jacob is.

@StefanoPalazzo Did you see my revision in the branch?

...where I added the random.random() line?

Stefano Palazzo

yes

George Edison

Is that a good idea?

Stefano Palazzo

I added some comment, already forgot what I wrote :D

if it works, it's a good idea

Marco Ceppi

19:49

Heh, okay so our server's are basically in the same state. I'll likely spin up a server in Japan in a few weeks if use warrents to provide faster response times to foreign users

George Edison

...and would seeding the random number generator be a good idea... or a waste of 30 bytes?

@MarcoCeppi But what will go on that server?

Stefano Palazzo

there's no need for that, you could even just go 1-2-1-2-1-2. no need for true randomness

George Edison

Are we going to dump @StefanoPalazzo and my server app on there?

Marco Ceppi

I don't get it, what's the different between the two?

George Edison

@StefanoPalazzo That's not a bad idea either.

@MarcoCeppi One's written in Python - and the other in C++.

Stefano Palazzo

19:50

The two servers are basically the same, apart from how they work

George Edison

No wait - I forgot - my server actually has Python bindings.

@StefanoPalazzo Yours polls the API to keep up to date too right?

Stefano Palazzo

yes

George Edison

How often?

Stefano Palazzo

I can't remember how often :)

Marco Ceppi

I see. Well, since I have Stefano's code it'd probably be his. IDK who's, the point was to have better coverage for poor @ajmitch in ɐıןɐɹʇsnɐ

George Edison

19:53

@MarcoCeppi You can easily get mine running too though. I can't remember if I packaged it or not.

Stefano Palazzo

@GeorgeEdison yours does too, right?

George Edison

But building it is basically: qmake ; make ; sudo make install

@StefanoPalazzo Yup.

Marco Ceppi

What I'm saying, it's irrelevant whose is running. Just that there is coverage.

If it's needed*

George Edison

Right.

What kind of response times are you getting for pings to the servers, @ajmitch?

@MarcoCeppi Er, that's "whose" not "who's" :)

Stefano Palazzo

eh

check out http://s.tk/

George Edison

19:56

Cool!

ajmitch

@GeorgeEdison no idea, give me a name/ip to test

@MarcoCeppi you're a bad bad man

Marco Ceppi

@ajmitch <3

ajmitch

am not australian :P

Marco Ceppi

:O, NZ?

ajmitch

always have been

George Edison

20:01

@ajmitch audata.quickmediasolutions.com:8046

Marco Ceppi

@ajmitch I'm so sorry.

ajmitch

@GeorgeEdison ouch, mtr is showing a solid nearly 300ms to there

@MarcoCeppi hah

it's ok, we beat the australians in the rugby in the weekend, so I can't be too annoyed

Marco Ceppi

@ajmitch Try this one: 50.19.108.78:8045

ajmitch

@MarcoCeppi about 250ms

Marco Ceppi

Hum, yeah - Might just spin up a server in Japan then. @StefanoPalazzo @GeorgeEdison would it make sense to run a quick ping test to determine the fastest server response time?

Stefano Palazzo

20:07

250 is pretty nice

still too slow of course. but about fast enough that the UX isn't annoying

ajmitch

@StefanoPalazzo I think you need to decide on what the best use of filters is

I don't really like having all the other SE sites as filters

Stefano Palazzo

I haven't even run it yet. But I'll have some time tonight

ajmitch

I'd be interested to know how @JorgeCastro uses the lens

Jorge Castro

one sec, on a call

ajmitch

np

Stefano Palazzo

20:10

then I'll go over then UX in detail. From what I hear, the other se sites should better be integrated as special searches again. Though that's not discoverable

ajmitch

it'd be nice to get it approved for extras.ubuntu.com before UDS if possible :)

which may mean getting it polished & ready by this weekend

Stefano Palazzo

thanks to the packaging recipe, that should be doable

ajmitch

yeah, we still need to sort out the ****ing annoying stuff with /opt, since there are quite a few files that need to go under /usr

also the problem with pygobject will take at least 7 days to clear testing

well, 7 days from when it hits oneiric-proposed

Marco Ceppi

Okay, anyone have a naming scheme preference for servers? We could do boring (server#), unique (each server has it's own name), other.

Stefano Palazzo

it should include the country they're in

us.1., us.2., eu.1, ...

George Edison

20:23

Yeah, that's a good idea.

Marco Ceppi

do avoid too many subs, would va1.us.audataserver.com work?

State/providence#.Country

Stefano Palazzo

sure. if they are not strictly numeric, we have to maintain a list anyway

Marco Ceppi

right, okay I'll setup va1.us and va2.us now

George Edison

Great.

Stefano Palazzo

we could get the users' country from i18n, and sort the list of servers according to it

Marco Ceppi

20:26

@GeorgeEdison I'll just CNAME va2.us to your audata.quickmediasolutions.com so you can manage the IP

George Edison

Sure. That will work fine.

So consider this logic:

1. The lens starts up.

2. It queries the 'audataserver.com/status' method to get a list of all servers nearby.

Stefano Palazzo

remember there is a large probability of not being connected to the internet when the lens starts up

Jorge Castro

hi!

hey so @ajmitch

George Edison

3. It cycles through them.

Jorge Castro

we could do the /opt stuff nowish

and put it in the PPA

George Edison

20:30

@StefanoPalazzo Oh yeah :(

Jorge Castro

that way PPA -> extras isn't so painful

George Edison

Well then it could do the query on first use.

@JorgeCastro You convinced me.

Marco Ceppi

@GeorgeEdison May I recommend audataserver.com/list instead ?

George Edison

@MarcoCeppi Certainly.

Whatever works best.

Today, I'll try to spend some time getting the data dump stuff packaged.

We'll see what I can do.

ajmitch

@JorgeCastro right, we can & need to do so before it gets resubmitted

Jorge Castro

20:32

/me nods

ajmitch

I'd also rename the binary package to unity-lens-askubuntu from unity-askubuntu-lens, for consistency

Jorge Castro

hey so on the SE search

I am pretty sure that the other SE sites should be scopes to the lens

not search categories

ajmitch

the file in /usr/share/unity/lenses most likely has to stay there, as does the dbus service file

agreed, though I'm not overly familiar with scopes :)

Jorge Castro

I need to find out

on it now

ajmitch

I probably need to chase up kamstrup or didrocks about that pygobject bug - I don't want to upload an SRU without their approval

Jorge Castro

20:35

I'm working with didrocks

it will likely need pitti approval

Marco Ceppi

ajmitch

yeah

Marco Ceppi

Created, pending domain name resolution

Jorge Castro

plus.google.com/116015965439782966698/posts/XBZEBNnWvGj

there's no way having ever SE in that filter thing can be right

it'd be a mess

I would think filter settings would be tags on the site

so like, 11.10, unity, etc.?

Marco Ceppi

So then, don't show the tags section at the bottom of the search results?

ajmitch

20:39

that's what I was expecting when I saw filters

Jorge Castro

ah right

Marco Ceppi

I mean, it makes sense to filter on tags

Jorge Castro

yeah

Marco Ceppi

Do we really even need to have different sites?

Jorge Castro

the thing is, I know it's supposed to have scopes

the idea is to have one lens and multiple scopes

Marco Ceppi

20:40

Then why not just have it search all SE sites?

Jorge Castro

so a "documents lens" would have, local files, google docs, zimbra docs, etc. as different scopes

Marco Ceppi

So no more au-lens it should be se-lens

Jorge Castro

this would really be an SE lens

with an AU scope

it's just not obvious to me how that's supposed to look like.

Marco Ceppi

If this is an au-lens it should never search outside of AU, or have an option to search outside of AU

Jorge Castro

yeah I just don't think the default lenses have scopes, so we don't know what it's supposed to look like

Marco Ceppi

20:41

For 90% of the people that will be just swell.

Jorge Castro

yeah

I mean, filters makes sense if they're tags

Marco Ceppi

@JorgeCastro I imagine, that the pane on the right would be split. Top would be filters, bottom would be scope each with independent scroll bars

Jorge Castro

yeah

but there are so many SE sites

surely a huge list of buttons can't be right

ajmitch

more are getting added all the time, too

so the lens will get outdated

Marco Ceppi

@ajmitch You can fetch a list of the sites, and their API endpoints dynamically

George Edison

20:47

@ajmitch Yeah, the list is dynamic.

AFK for a few minutes.

ajmitch

@MarcoCeppi right, but the lens does have a large list hardcoded

Marco Ceppi

That should probably be changed, IMO sites should be removed all together - replaced with Tags until there's a better understanding how to filter results

Jorge Castro

yeah

that whole thing on the right looks dumb

unless you want to like type something in, and change your mind

like, you'd type "unity keyboard shortcuts" and be like "OH WAIT, let me search gardening instead." That doesn't make sense

Marco Ceppi

Right, the search criteria should dictate the site which the results come from.

If you had an Agnostic "Stack Exchange" serach, searching "Unity keyboard shortcuts" the majority of results would be from AU. Search "Basil bug problem" and you'll likely get gardening and MAYBE some Cooking.se

I'm not sure about the data implications for this though - or how much load it would generate.

So, filters can't be dynamically changed/displayed?

Jorge Castro

21:04

ken is explaining it to me now

ajmitch

@JorgeCastro please pass on all the info :)

Jorge Castro

ugly paste coming

ajmitch

I know that filters are set in the code, I'd like to know if they can be changed without restarting the lens

Marco Ceppi

I am fascinated by this lens stuff. It's so unfortunate that my Python skills are so, so little. Is there a Quickly template for a Lens?

ajmitch

not yet, it's something I could probably create if you wanted one :)

at least for a lens that connects to a website, like the AU lens

Marco Ceppi

21:08

Just an idea. I really need to learn Python in general though

Jorge Castro

there's no way they want this huge list on the right like that
4:50 PM
that can't be right

Ken: i agree

but

i think it is useful to be able to control which sites you are searching
4:51 PM
if you made the sites into scopes, and the categories into filters

you would always search all of them...

me: right

Ken: of course you wouldn't always get results from them, so you wouldn't even see it

me: so where do the scopes go?
4:52 PM
Ken: the scopes there is "Everything", "Questions", and "Tags"... I think

ugh crap, that came out wrong

Ken: so i think what he has is right look at the music lens filters

ajmitch

@JorgeCastro pastebin

Jorge Castro

pastebin.ubuntu.com/712482

sorry

gtalk logs not so good

ajmitch

np, thanks for that

Marco Ceppi

Same with Empathy, copy+pasting from the chat window is not friendly

Jorge Castro

21:10

ok so here's what I think

ajmitch

right, so it seems to make sense to just have an AU lens to search AU

Jorge Castro

we should just do AU for now

and then at UDS Marco and I will go shoot John Lea and ask him how it's supposed to be

ajmitch

take me along to UDS, please? :)

Jorge Castro

because there's no way they can expect people to put a huge list of boxes on the right for every scope

Marco Ceppi

Sounds good

Jorge Castro

21:11

or, ken just advised to have a setting program

where people can select which SEs they have

oh DUDE, I got it.

the stackapplet already asks you for your accounts

and grabs all that information

Marco Ceppi

:\ I have a lot of accounts though?

Jorge Castro

ah ... :-/

Marco Ceppi

One in almost every SE site

ajmitch

so what's the verdict? filters for tags?

Jorge Castro

that makes the most sense to me

ajmitch

21:16

or filters for the 'unanswered', etc

Marco Ceppi

Can we dynamically update the filters without restarting the lens?

Jorge Castro

but I guess we can't update them dynamically?

ajmitch

ask ken

it's communicated over DBUS, so I'm sure it must be possible - it depends on whether unity allows the updating

Jorge Castro

ok

well, I'm all for getting the PPA up and running ASAP, and leaving the details for later

Marco Ceppi

I think @StefanoPalazzo Is the one for that. Maybe @GeorgeEdison since he has experience with daily builds. I need to install 11.10 on my netbook tonight so I can help in testing.

ajmitch

21:29

@JorgeCastro OK, I'll look at the packaging & what changes I'd want made

you won't mind me renaming the binary package to unity-lens-askubuntu ? :)

Marco Ceppi

What's it currently?

ajmitch

unity-askubuntu-lens

I'm just going for consistency with the other lenses

Jorge Castro

nod

Marco Ceppi

yeah, makes sense. I don't think anyone is going t get heartburn over a change like that.

ajmitch

Maybe a transitional package will be useful, but I dont know how many people currently have the natty lens installed

Jorge Castro

21:40

it's ok, it doesn't work for them anyway, heh

ajmitch

that's what I was thinking :)

Jorge Castro

@StefanoPalazzo merge that bad boy!

Stefano Palazzo

okay, hang on while I figure out how to do that

my computer is nearly unusable, it's so slow

Jorge Castro

it's that unity rubbish!

Stefano Palazzo

well, I blame my cheap old laptop. I'm sure unity would be great on a faster machine ;-)

that's what I'll tell myself (:

ajmitch

22:00

unity's not too bad on this laptop, could be faster though

there are a few performance issues I've been having lately, like totem sometimes taking ages to start

Jorge Castro

I put 2d on an older box

it's pretty awesome

Stefano Palazzo

did that work?

yes I think so. @Jorge okay it's merged

Jorge Castro

did what work?

AWW YEAH!

Stefano Palazzo

I wonder if the recipe works

I bet it won't

Jorge Castro

let me try it

ajmitch

22:10

@StefanoPalazzo it should

Stefano Palazzo

yeah give it a go

ajmitch

unless the recipe is still merging in the packaging branch

the packaging branches there are now a bit out of date

Stefano Palazzo

I guess most of the complexity is in the setup script. the recipe is very simple. I got that the wrong way 'round

ajmitch

the setup script is very simple as well

it's just a list of a few files

Jorge Castro

@ajmitch I can ask Ken to update the packaging

ajmitch

22:13

@JorgeCastro no real need, the branch @StefanoPalazzo is merging in has it updated - there's only really some version number changing

Jorge Castro

ah ok

THIS WILL BE EPIC

Stefano Palazzo

cross my fingers

ajmitch

I pushed my updated LP lens to LP yesterday as well

the default recipe built it with no problems

code.launchpad.net/~ajmitch/unity-lens-launchpad/trunk

some parts of the code may seem somewhat familiar ;)

Jorge Castro

AW YEAH

@ajmitch is that in your PPA?

I can blog about them

Stefano Palazzo

okay I requested a build now. Didn't know I could do that

ajmitch

22:18

@JorgeCastro should be in a PPA, but you'd want to sort of test it first :)

Jorge Castro

right yeah, of course, heh

ajmitch

I haven't exactly don't much testing on it myself

time to fire up a VM to do so

@StefanoPalazzo oh yeah, remember to change the default distro that the recipe builds for

code.launchpad.net/~ajmitch/+recipe/unity-lens-launchpad-daily shows missing dependencies on yesterday's build because I forgot to change it to oneiric

Stefano Palazzo

it failed :\

merge trunk lp:askubuntu-lens

You have not informed bzr of your Launchpad ID, and you must do this to
write to Launchpad or access private data.  See "bzr help launchpad-login".

ajmitch

you haven't set up bzr properly to talk to LP on that computer

at least the error message is fairly obvious about it :)

Stefano Palazzo

I think @jorge you have to change the default distro, I can't find the option to do that (probably because I don't own the recipe)

Jorge Castro

22:23

oh ok

code.launchpad.net/askubuntu-lens/+recipes

which one is it?

ajmitch

@JorgeCastro once @StefanoPalazzo merges his code, update the recipe to just use the trunk branch, and not merge in the packaging branch

Jorge Castro

k

ajmitch

code.launchpad.net/~jorge/+recipe/askubuntu-lens-daily-1

easiest to go to the recipe straight from the branch

Stefano Palazzo

yes

Jorge Castro

I renamed it

and got rid of the crappy old one

code.launchpad.net/~jorge/+recipe/askubuntu-lens-daily

ajmitch

22:27

ok

Jorge Castro

ok so I won't need the packaging

so the recipe should just be:

lp:unity-askubuntu-lens right?

Stefano Palazzo

I don't think that will work

those files in debian/ look important

:)

Marco Ceppi

@StefanoPalazzo Naw, we use Ubuntu, duh :P

ajmitch

@StefanoPalazzo yeah, and the branch you're merging in has them

Stefano Palazzo

:D

ajmitch

22:35

@JorgeCastro right

Stefano Palazzo

oh it does

egg on my face

ajmitch

@JorgeCastro code.launchpad.net/~ajmitch/+recipe/unity-lens-launchpad-daily

the recipe I have there is just the default one

Jorge Castro

yeah

that should be correct

ajmitch

you can grab the LP lens from my PPA if you're brave enough to try it

& give feedback on what else you'd want to see - I don't have any filters on there at the moment, for example

Jorge Castro

@ajmitch is it in your ppa?

ajmitch

22:41

@JorgeCastro yep

Jorge Castro

ON IT.

ajmitch

ppa:ajmitch/ppa rather than the lens one

Stefano Palazzo

can you change the recipe @jorge?

ajmitch

since I didn't look at which PPA I was using when I requested a build yesterday :)

Stefano Palazzo

(or is there a way to make it so that I can administer it?)

Jorge Castro

22:42

I did

and just kicked off more builds

ajmitch

can a recipe be owned by the team?

Jorge Castro

I was just about to ask that

ajmitch

see if you can change the owner to ~askubuntu-tools

Jorge Castro

ok

ajmitch

it may be that recipes have to be owned by a person

Jorge Castro

22:45

Worked!

ajmitch

ok

awesome, I can edit the recipe now

not so awesome is that it fails

Stefano Palazzo

feel like I'm standing at the roulette table :P

ajmitch

@StefanoPalazzo why's that?

Stefano Palazzo

I'm refreshing the page to see if that build succeeds

whoops. it didn't

double the bet

it's the launchpad id again. why would it want an id, it just checks out the branch right?

ajmitch

we'll get there, I just changed the recipe

@StefanoPalazzo worn out the f5 key yet?

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