@JamesWilson a process from a source you trust (preferably university extension or some such)
You can't yourself look at a recipe and decide whether it's safe. It has to be "enough" curing salt (it has nitrites, not just salt), and "enough" time, and done in the "right" way.
As far as I know, what Jolene is mentioning is... at least a tiny bit risky, on the level of "not good for people with compromised immune systems". If you're okay with that, that's cool.
e.g. nchfp.uga.edu/publications/nchfp/lit_rev/… says "Most food scientists cannot recommend cold-smoking methods because of the inherent risks and as such, at-risk consumers are encouraged to avoid these foods (US FDA 2001a)."
but it's still the temperature of the food that matters - the 55F presumably is so that in combination with the temperature of the smoke you end up with the food below 70F?
I don't think that guide mentions it, but there's no reason to not start with previously frozen salmon. The parasite risk is lower, and the freezing will slightly dehydrate the fish which is your ultimate goal anyway.
"It has to be "enough" curing salt (it has nitrites, not just salt), and "enough" time, and done in the "right" way." - yeah so im trying to know how do i know its enough and don in the right way etc
point being thats the question. anyway i posted it.
well most sources just say salt cure for x hours etc, i just want to know is that because in this time the salt is expected to have copletely penetrated or is there some other marker for it.
i.e. the rationale behind it - thats what im asking about.
if you are okay with a little bit of risk (not perfectly safe, but most people never have problems), then you can do what jolene is talking about, and you don't need to obsess about what exactly "fully cured" means, you just need to follow one of the recipes
right jef and here lies the problem. i have a weak immune system and just ate cold smoked salmon from shop. hence im trying to find out what fully cured means.
i intend to eat this ongoing however worried about safety of food.
@JamesWilson Then it probably wasn't safe for people with weakened immune systems anyway, and what they meant by "fully cured" doesn't matter that much - there's a good chance it didn't mean "super-safe" just "enough that it's safe enough for me".
It's not something that you can really get a number for. It's a little bit risky for everyone, in the sense that if everyone ate sushi reasonably frequently, some of them would probably get sick, not most of them, but some. If your immune system is compromised, your odds go up.
>The only concern any inspectors have is referred to as the parasite destruction guarantee, which is accomplished by ‘freezing and storing seafood at -4°F (-20°C) or below for 7 days (total time), or freezing at -31°F (-35°C) or below until solid and storing at -31°F (-35°C) or below for 15 hours, or freezing at -31°F (-35°C) or below until solid and storing at -4°F (-20°C) or below for 24 hours’ which is sufficient to kill parasites
--- Home freezers do not get that cold, but home freezing is better than not freezing at all.
since salt cured fish can lie around for months, there must be a scientific reason to do with that, and if it preserves it, we know it is fully cured. its ok if you do not whats happening on a biochemical level, just saying for fish to be preserved by salt and not rot, there must be a marker for that
But yes, there's a marker for something being cured in the safe-for-months way: you let it sit around for months and see if it becomes dangerous. It's kind of inconvenient to do that yourself (it takes a long time and you have to test it by eating it and seeing if you get sick, and even then you don't know if you just got lucky), so you can save some time by finding a trusted recipe.
> Caution: The entire cold smoking process takes place in the temperature “danger zone” (40°F to 140°F). Therefore, this product could spoil or become unsafe to eat before it is fully smoked.
I like that they describe the process and then say welp, might work!
I don't have any idea exactly what the laws are everywhere, but there's plenty of stuff that's a little risky for certain people to eat, and people get food poisoning all the time from things they eat at home without suing anyone.
I wouldn't go so far as to say cold smoked salmon from the supermarket is unsafe, it would be a one in a million thing to get sick from it. And yes, manufacturers can be sued if their products make someone sick. So they are pretty highly motivated to not let that happen. It happens though, and not just in food that we would consider to be risky. There was a huge E. coli infection not long ago that originated in lettuce.
depends what you mean by "commercial" - if you include someone who has a local business selling something, and they're doing it in a slightly unsafe way that makes it a little risky for people with compromised immune systems... they could be just getting away with it, getting lucky enough, and people with bad immune systems probably tend to avoid raw-looking fish anyways.
so yeah, I mean, probably safe? but it's almost certainly riskier than eating a potato, nonetheless.
and even if it's one-in-a-million to get sick from it, someone probably still does, doesn't mean the distributor or store is gonna get sued out of business.
The vast majority of foodborne illness and zoonotic parasites are fairly easily treated. Of course, people die too. Anyone of us could walk out tomorrow and get hit by a bus.
you can make educated guesses, but the incubation times are long, so it could be the leftovers you left out a bit too long, the restaurant food you had today, or yesterday, or the day before, or the cold-smoked salmon, or your runny eggs from breakfast, or...
It's an impossible statistic to nail down, but I wonder how many cases of "stomach flu" that kept the person home for a couple of days are actually food poisoning.
anyway, reason I brought that up is, sure, if something's really unsafe it'll get noticed, but if it's down at the level of a few people getting a bit sick periodically, that can slip through, so you're just relying on the safety standards of whoever made the food.
yeah
The CDC may actually have studied that kind of thing, it's not totally impossible.
> CDC estimates that each year roughly 48 million people gets sick from a foodborne illness, 128,000 are hospitalized, and 3,000 die. The 2011 estimates provide the most accurate picture of which foodborne bacteria, viruses, microbes ("pathogens") are causing the most illnesses in the United States.
> In brief, FoodNet Population Surveys are random-digit-dial telephone surveys of the general population in FoodNet sites.
The very general idea is, use surveys to estimate how many people have had certain kinds of symptoms, then combine with other information to estimate what fraction of those were likely to have been foodborne.
I really did a number on myself with the accidental caffeine overdose earlier. I've been up for 31 hours. But now I am fading fast. At least I got a lot of work done today.
Hey baby! Watch that video when you can. It's hysterical.
Something new happened in Alaska today! The village of Barrow is no more. They voted, and by a few hundred votes what was Barrow is now Utqiagvik. You know Dragon really choked on that.
He has a series of blog posts which try to manipulate readers' opinions while also telling them in the face that he is manipulating them by using some voodoo techniques from "persuasion" books
Trump said today that he is going to sue whoever first televised that video. He also is really bent out of shape about SNL, like they are lampooning him worse than any other conservative in the past 40 years.
but from his twisted "persuasion" ideas, he may be thinking that his ostensive Trump support is somehow getting the readers to be anti-trump because he motivates more democratic people to vote if he misleads them to think that Trump is winning
who knows how many levels deep his logic of "manipulate my readers" goes.
The whole country really is on edge about Trump suggesting that he won't accept the results if he loses. A congressman even said, "I'll vote for Trump on the 8th, and I'll be ready to pick up my musket on the 9th."
There is a pretty good chance that the Democrats will get a majority in the Senate. Did you know that the Republicans are blocking the supreme court nomination to replace Scalia?
And even though Obama has picked a very solid, middle-of-the-road candidate that the Republicans would not object to, they're blocking just 'cause. It's absurd.
Who was come out of this whole thing smelling like a rose is the first lady. She has become extraordinarily popular.
Barack too, of late. But Michelle can do no wrong.
I heard a pretty clever idea on a late-night show the other day. The panelist (I can't remember who, but she had solid bona-fides) suggested that Hillary should nominate Barack to the Supreme Court.
@Jolenealaska we have a long weekend coming up, so we'll be getting the yard winter-ready, finish the hedgehog house, do some halloween crafts with the minors and there is a kiddie birthday party coming up as well. And of course we'll be checking for some mushrooms.
I have a half pan of brownies that I got free with a pizza over the weekend. Now they're stale and hard. They taste really good though. Whaddya think... Ice cream maybe?
I have seen this with practically any other fruit (compote was the principal way of my grandparents to store the summer's produce, more popular than jam, and our everyday drink) but not with apples.
@rumtscho yep. Perhaps stirred a bit to break it up somewhat. Depends a lot on the type of apples you use whether this will work or not. I'm sort of honoring both sides of the family this way. And that's how my great-gran served it, too.
@ElendilTheTall sources vary and it seems it's actually Russian. But there was a French cook involved in making it a classic dish by presenting it at a competition in Paris.
Well, the Bulgarian word for it is a transliteration of "compote", but of course such driftings in meaning happen all the time in international culinary terms
that's why I wanted to find out what Stephie means when saying "compote"
Just googled images, found why you are confused. I'm aiming for what you get when you start stirring the cooked fruit - a very chunky mash with some liquid. If I get it right, I'll post a photo later.
