The Frying Pan

Well, @Jefromi doesn't sound like he's committed, really. So we have three. Even if we ask @rfusca to do mostly shorter posts, we it looks like we only have twice monthly posts at the moment.

rumtscho

@ElendilTheTall didn't you want to write a bit too? You don't have to promise frequent posts, but a promise for some posts at all is better than nothing

Aarthi

@rumtscho hey, not my jurisdiction. we're talking about it ~behind le scenes~

Keep bothering @Laura about it! :P

/me runs away

derobert

LOL

rumtscho

@derobert I think that twice monthly is perfectly OK for a new blog

Mien

@ElendilTheTall For 30 pounds? :o

ElendilTheTall

9:08 PM

@rumtscho I suppose I could be persuaded

Mien

I saw some new prices today, 4GB for 90 euro a month :p

ElendilTheTall

@mien holy crap

rumtscho

If we try to get people to commit to more, they will be reluctant.

And we don't want to use up our goodwill with contributors early and then run out of steam.

Mien

The cheapest is 2GB for 15 euro I think

But texts and calls aren't limited.

derobert

@rumtscho well, if one of us actually gets hooked on blogging, we won't have a problem.

@Mien surely you want to write blog posts! Possibly about your mushroom-eating adventures.

rumtscho

9:10 PM

If lots of posts pile up, we can do a special in between.

@derobert I wouldn't want it to become a single-contributor blog.

ElendilTheTall

@rumtscho there you go rummers, I've put my name on the dotted line

rumtscho

It is supposed to be the community's blog, not mine or yours.

Mien

@derobert I was about to answer :) Yes, I'm willing to write. But know in the back of your head that I certainly will need someone to review it first.

derobert

@rumtscho Posts piling up is, as the saying goes, a problem we'd love to have

rumtscho

@ElendilTheTall thank you!

ElendilTheTall

9:11 PM

@mien I use the data to send messages anyway

iMessage/Whatsapp use the data connection not SMS, and everyone I know uses one or the other

rumtscho

@Mien I am sure that we will review all the posts, not only the ones by non-native speakers

Mien

@ElendilTheTall Oh no, you use Apple :(

rumtscho

@ElendilTheTall and the carriers allow it?

Mien

@rumtscho Yes, probably.

derobert

Yes, I'm a native speaker, and I'd appreciate an editor.

rumtscho

9:12 PM

Here, mobile carriers block skype and p2p in their networks.

derobert

Editors can be great. They tell you when you've not elaborated a point enough, spent too long explaining something simple, etc.

rumtscho

I woudln#t be surprised if the block sms-cannibalizing apps too.

ElendilTheTall

@rumtscho of course

rumtscho

@derobert it seems like a slightly belated thing to write

derobert

@rumtscho ? (confused)

ElendilTheTall

9:13 PM

@mien what's wrong with apple?

rumtscho

If I had thought of it before hand, I would have written that every author should expect to do some editor duty as well, and has to opt out if he can't

Mien

@ElendilTheTall I just don't like it. I never have.

rumtscho

Now I wonder if I should ammend the question to ask who would opt in as an editor, or if I should write a new question.

ElendilTheTall

well, no one's forcing you to :) @mien

Mien

And now I'm just stubborn when I see the popularity of it.

ElendilTheTall

9:14 PM

they just work

Mien

Yes, luckily for them ;)

derobert

@rumtscho I'd consider that part of the administrative duty I volunteered for. I will edit my answer to be clearer.

ElendilTheTall

I've used Android and Apple, and Apple wins

rumtscho

@derobert Ah, OK

ElendilTheTall

Android just seems cobbled together and a bit shaky

Apple is polished and slick

rumtscho

9:15 PM

I don't know if a single admin should edit all posts

Although it is easier than writing, certainly.

Maybe we should have a circle of editors - and it is OK with me if it is narrower than the circle of authors.

derobert

@rumtscho I suggest we have two—at minimum, if hypothetically I were to be doing that, I'd like for someone else to review my posts.

ElendilTheTall

agreed

rumtscho

I would do editing as well, no matter if I am considered admin or not

Actually, three should be the minimum

In case that editor A writes a post, and editor B is unavailable for real-life reasons like deadlines or vacation

There should be a C to review A's post

derobert

Three would be nice. But I think two would be fine. Its harder to edit your own stuff (and the final quality isn't as good), but its not a disaster.

rumtscho

If both B and C are away, I guess that somebody will agree to review ad hoc, in the worst case we would ask Laura. I don't expect it to happen often, if at all.

@derobert I think we can do with me, you and @Jefromi as editors, seeing that we are willing to be part of the organization

ElendilTheTall

9:19 PM

Well, as the only person here representing the race who invented the language, I volunteer too :P

Sobachatina

@ElendilTheTall You are disqualified for intolerable smugness.

Mien

You have 'I like baking sweets' and you have 'I like baking ....' (savoury?)

derobert

@ElendilTheTall oh no, you'll change all our colors into colours!

2

ElendilTheTall

I don't want any 'colors' or 'vytamins' messing up my blog

rumtscho

@ElendilTheTall you don#t count the Americans as your descendants?

Mien

9:19 PM

Can someone help me with the second word?

ElendilTheTall

@rumtscho not the way they butcher the language

;)

derobert

@ElendilTheTall who write 'vytamins' ?

Mien

I prefer the British spelling btw :)

@derobert You just did!

ElendilTheTall

no one, but you pronounce it vytamins

derobert

@Mien That was a quote! It doesn't count!

ElendilTheTall

9:20 PM

when they are plainly vittamins

Sobachatina

@ElendilTheTall I'll give you that one.

rumtscho

@ElendilTheTall I suspect that the guys who wrote British English before the US was settled won't recognize what you write and speak today as Ye Propere Aulde English.

Sobachatina

But then you have to concede that the 'u' in colours is unpronounced and so redundant.

ElendilTheTall

unlike the h in herb

:P

derobert

@rumtscho Anyway, three or four editors seems like it'd work fine. I wouldn't want to go much above that (consistency will start to suffer).

rumtscho

9:21 PM

@Sobachatina if we were to remove all unpronounced and so redundant letters from English...

Mien

@ElendilTheTall Erb.

rumtscho

@derobert yes, you are right.

@ElendilTheTall Kherb.

Sobachatina

@rumtscho We're working on it, ie. 'color'.

rumtscho

@what about the e in are?

Sobachatina

I can't say "herb" because then I'm talking about some guy named "Herbert". Obviously the words must be differentiated somehow.

derobert

9:22 PM

@rumtscho Can we change all the ph*s to *f*s, and all the non-combined *c*s to *s or k while we're at it?

rumtscho

Or the g in working?

Mien

Herp derp.

Sobachatina

Throw some fresh Herbs in the soup.

Mien

@derobert we don't have ph's :) we have f's !

Sobachatina

I don't know any Herbs but if they were "fresh" I'm sure I wouldn't have them on hand to throw in a soup.

derobert

9:23 PM

Ok. I formatted that right. SO just failed to parse it.

rumtscho

@Sobachatina Stop it, I think I must have met at least one Herbert.

ElendilTheTall

@Sobachatina have them on and you mean?

Sobachatina

@ElendilTheTall lol! It took me a full minute to parse that sentence.

Mien

I've got a professor called Herbert!

Sobachatina

I had to read it outloud.

rumtscho

9:24 PM

Although I can't think of any Herbert right now, besides Herbert Grönemeyer, and he deserves to end in a soup. (The poor soupd doesn't deserve him).

derobert

Sounds like we're got both both the editorial and administrative side of the blog covered.

Mien

►

Enjoy :p

That's Herbert.

derobert

@rumtscho Herbert Hoover?

rumtscho

@Sobachatina I can never get vocal puns

What is it supposed to sound like?

derobert

@rumtscho Herbert von Karajan

ElendilTheTall

9:25 PM

@Sobachatina It takes me a full minute to parse any American sentence

rumtscho

@derobert who is this?

ElendilTheTall

;)

derobert

@rumtscho Former president of the US, at the start of the Great Depression.

rumtscho

@derobert Forgot about him. But, beside the fact that I don#t care for classical music, isn't he dead? Or only retired?

derobert

@rumtscho Karajan is dead.

rumtscho

9:27 PM

I know one Norbert, but he doesn't count.

derobert

@rumtscho and not liking classical music, what's wrong with you? :-P

rumtscho

No, i know two Norberts, but the second one probably doesn't remember me.

derobert

Herbert (name)

Herbert or Heribert (Aribert, ) is a Germanic given name, from hari "host" and beraht "bright". It also came into use as a surname, for which see Herbert (surname), Hébert. people called Herbert: * Saint Herbert * Herbert I of Maine (died 1036), Frankish count * Herbert II of Maine (died 1062), Frankish count * Herbert I, Count of Vermandois (848–907), Frankish count * Herbert II, Count of Vermandois (880–943), Frankish count * Herbert III, Count of Vermandois (987–997), Frankish count * Herbert IV, Count of Vermandois (1045–1080), Frankish count * Herbert Aptheker (1915–2003), American...

easy way to finder Herberts

ElendilTheTall

I want this watch

►

Sobachatina

@ElendilTheTall yawn just stop it. All our dialects are converging into a generic Internet-age-Anglican-newspeak anyway.

ElendilTheTall

9:28 PM

I'm only teasing

derobert

@Sobachatina I think, he's just confessing he's slow.

Mien

@Sobachatina Do you consider Dutch a dialect of English?

Sobachatina

I know. Thanks to you I can't watch Mary Poppins anymore because Mr Van Dyke makes my ears bleed.

And I don't even know what his accent is supposed to sound like.

ElendilTheTall

Pfff

hang about, I'll find you a cockney accent online

rumtscho

@Sobachatina I still want to know what @ElendilTheTall 's pun above sounds like

The "have them on and you mean?" sentence

ElendilTheTall

9:30 PM

@rumtscho most Americans pronounce 'herb' as 'erb'

however, they also pronounce 'hand' as 'hand'

I was pointing out the dichotomy between the two

rumtscho

"hand"?

I don't see a "hand" in your sentence

ElendilTheTall

no, because I took the h off like the Americans do with herb

get it?

rumtscho

I thought that he had to read it aloud because it sounds like different words when pronounced

ElendilTheTall

perhaps I should have written it as 'and

rumtscho

Ah, I got it now. Sorry.

I was looking for a completely different kind of joke.

derobert

9:35 PM

@rumtscho the BBC informed me the other day, that to make a joke in Germany, apparently you have to essentially shout THAT WAS A JOKE afterwards. This puts you in the upper percentiles of folks in Germany, that you managed to look for a joke at all.

@rumtscho Congratulations! You are officially above average!

rumtscho

@derobert I am not GErman. And I don#t consume much German media (but I read die Zeit online).

I agree, German comedy is atrocious.

ElendilTheTall

@Sobachatina Apparently no one on the internet can do a Cockney accent

rumtscho

But I am afraid that neither Germans nor Americans seem to get the jokes I make.

Sobachatina

@rumtscho Ha! That was a good one.

ElendilTheTall

@Sobachatina youtube.com/watch?v=QiS1IcKuG8s

here you go, they've all got Cockney accents

rumtscho

9:37 PM

@ElendilTheTall Of course they can't. If cockney people would get online, they would start speaking the newfangled Internetspeak.

@ElendilTheTall I understood the numbers. I am proud of myself.

Sobachatina

@ElendilTheTall Ok, this accent I've heard and cannot at all reproduce.

Where is it from?

rumtscho

They call London лънн?

Sorry, I can't reproduce the second letter in a Roman alphabet.

Sobachatina

Birds == "desirable young women" and Pissed == "drunk"? Are either vulgar and not to be repeated in polite company?

rumtscho

But it isn't a schwa really, it is more like a ɔ

Mien

pissed is drunk yes

rumtscho

9:42 PM

And the double consonant didn't mean shortening, it was more a real doubling, but after a long vowel

Jefromi

@derobert Jefromi would like to commit but isn't confident about coming up with enough ideas to be able to follow through.

rumtscho

[lɔ:nn]

ElendilTheTall

@Sobachatina That's an East London accent, Cockney

derobert

@Jefromi Yes. Ideas. The hard part.

rumtscho

@jefromi it is OK if you write about ideas others have come up with but don't have the time or experience to realize

ElendilTheTall

9:44 PM

Birds is a bit un-PC but not necessarily vulgar, pissed is a mild expletive

like ass

tastefive

hello all

rumtscho

Ideas are a dime a dozen, we have 18 of them before the blog has started

hello @tastefive

Nice to see that you are unaffected enough by the weather to come online

tastefive

@rumtscho it was pretty bad for a while

Sobachatina

@ElendilTheTall Wow! I don't understand this sentence even slightly:

►

derobert

@tastefive wait, you're a chef and actually write about food. Or at least your profile says so. We should definitely rope you into writing for the Cooking.SE blog

0

A: Call for participation: Cooking blog

I haven't written a blog before, but I think I could manage to do at least one post per month. Eventually (once I get the hang of it), I think I could do more often. Coming up with topics is always what I've found hardest about writing. Right now, I've posted two ideas to the idea thread, both o...

rumtscho

9:46 PM

@ElendilTheTall There are different accents within London itself? I mean, I know that it is big, but still...

Sobachatina

@derobert Yeah- why write on your own blog for ad revenue when you could write here for free!

derobert

@Sobachatina hah, like anyone gets ad revenue :-P

ElendilTheTall

@rumtscho yes, but all variations on the same accent really

@Sobachatina the first sentence?

tastefive

lol

Mien

hi @tastefive

ElendilTheTall

9:48 PM

@Sobachatina "You remember last week we was [were] having a row about whose turn it was to go down the chippy [to go to the fish & chip shop] yeah?"

tastefive

@Mien hello

are there suggested blog topics yet?

nm i see it now

derobert

And I managed to link to my answer instead of the question anyway

Mien

Yes, but feel free to add yours ;)

ElendilTheTall

@Sobachatina make sense now?

derobert

@Mien well, the good news, is @rumtscho has a dozen ideas, if only we can find a way to get her a dime. A Euro-dime, I suppose.

Mien

9:51 PM

But we don't have Euro-dimes!

we have 0.20 euro pieces.

or 0.50 or 0.10

How much is a dime? 0.25?

rumtscho

@jefromi you could write about raised crusts, not everybody knows about them

derobert

@Mien wait, a dime is 0.10

Mien

Oh, then we do! :)

rumtscho

Ah no, it was @tastefive who doesn't have ideas.

Mien

Can't I just bake a cake and take pictures from it?

rumtscho

9:52 PM

As a pro chef, he can write about stuff that we others can't

Mien

:D

derobert

7 mins ago, by rumtscho

Ideas are a dime a dozen, we have 18 of them before the blog has started

ElendilTheTall

yay, my match photo is doing well in the Photo PotW!

derobert

@ElendilTheTall that's a neat photo

rumtscho

@mien only if you include random thoughts going through your head in the text, forget to convert the recipe, and use a phone camera to snap the pictures.

Oh, and use a bad recipe please. Such as adding margarine to a box cake mix.

tastefive

9:54 PM

Well it looks like you guys have a good amount of interest for the blog

derobert

@Mien Category: Sorry, I Already Finished It

Jefromi

@rumtscho Yeah I'm not so much worried about short-term as long-term.

ElendilTheTall

@derobert thanks - check out my water drops about 3 hours back

rumtscho

@Jefromi There is lots of time to think about ideas until long-term

derobert

@rumtscho Actually, that gives me an idea for a category of posts: disasters. I mean, that's the best part of In the Pipeline. I think it'd actually be interesting to read posts where someone learns from it all going wrong.

rumtscho

9:56 PM

Cooking is a very wide topic.

derobert

... or at least, we hope the author learned

rumtscho

@derobert I think @Mien already proposed it.

Mien

@rumtscho You know how I love those!

derobert

@rumtscho Hmm, not on the recent list of ideas, let me check the older one

rumtscho

I think she did it in caht only

Mien

9:58 PM

I think so too.

Go ahead and propose!

derobert

Writing it up as an answer on meta now

Jefromi

@rumtscho Well, I'll think about it, but if I'm going to end up contributing intermittently, I'd rather commit to that, not regular contributions. We'll see. I'd like to be able to, I'm just not sure.

rumtscho

@Jefromi OK, thank you for investing thought in it and not giving a promise lightly. I think that everyone of us is scared of what can happen after the "low fruit" has been picked, but I think that we can pull it through.

derobert

0

A: Question ideas for a hypothetical blog

Cooking Disasters Even when you're fairly experienced, every once and a while things go completely wrong. Sometimes, its because you did something stupid, other times it was a good idea, “in theory.” Either way, it provides an opportunity to learn from—and also encouragement to less-experienced ...

Sobachatina

@ElendilTheTall Yep. I can hear it now. Again- Wow.

rumtscho

10:07 PM

After all, we now have 7 authors. If each can produce 2 posts at least, we have 14 posts, which is half a year in a two-week-rhythm. I hope that every author has at least two ideas to start with (or can imagine writing about two things from the common list). If we can keep up regular posts for half a year, we can count as established, I hope.

Sobachatina

I won't commit to it because I have a horrible track record of such things but it is likely that I will throw a post out of the blue at you to be posted at some random time.

Jefromi

In good news, it looks like the question is going to be who wants to be an admin.

rumtscho

@Sobachatina this would be nice.

tastefive

I can't either. I will just be to busy.

rumtscho

If we committed people have help from random contributors, we can have a good blog with less pressure to deliver ourselves. So we can keep it running for longer without it becoming a burden.

derobert

10:13 PM

@rumtscho I'm pretty sure if I can produce one post, I can produce much more than 2.

Mien

@rumtscho how does a recipe blog post look like to you?

Or others?

derobert

@Mien That'd be a nice topic. Present a personal or family recipe you are proud of.

Mien

yes, and it has a lot of upvotes.

But I'm sure there are kinds we don't want.

rumtscho

I am not so sure about recipes. There are other places where people look for recipes.

derobert

Well, I wouldn't want a copy & paste job off of epicurious.

rumtscho

10:16 PM

There are a few successful recipe blogs, but they concentrate on the recipes exclusively, and they are focused. Like Smitten Kitchen or Michael's blog.

Mien

Well, for me it's ambiguous.

If a recipe is recommended from someone I know, I'll perceive it as better than if I find it on a random website.

rumtscho

And people use them like a recipe database, not for other purposes.

derobert

I think it'd be a good occasional feature.

rumtscho

@Mien If we are only read by the people whom we know through chat, there isn't much sense in the blog.

The point is to have a blog read by more people.

derobert

Yes, but there are still only maybe 10 authors. So the more people who read the blog will get to "know" those authors

Mien

10:17 PM

Yes sure, but there is certainly a fair amount of people looking for recipes.

rumtscho

And I think that our strengths should lie somewhere different than in becoming a recipe source.

Mien

Yes, surely we won't cover recipes only.

rumtscho

Of course, if we blog about something where a recipe is appropriate, we will give the recipe.

For example, if Jefromi writes about his experience with raised crust, he should give the recipe too.

derobert

I think sharing a personal recipe would be a good way to talk about related stuff, for example, how you developed it, why the various steps are there, etc. It should be a lot more in depth than a recipe database

Mien

Hmm, what about a recipe fight?

Like a recipe for the same thing on two quite highly seen websites and make them both and compare?

rumtscho

10:19 PM

But the post would exist because most people haven't heard of a raised crust and it is new to them, not because the world needs one more pie recipe.

Mien

You don't need to say 'A is best', but you can say 'A is more ... while B is more...'

rumtscho

@Mien This sounds like an interesting thing.

Mien

I can do things like that :)

derobert

Oooh, recipe reviews, basically.

Mien

Sure.

I would like that.

I always have a hard time choosing a recipe.

I'm stuck with my buttercream :(

Three totally different methods :s

rumtscho

10:22 PM

Just a review would be boring. Everybody can cook a recipe and critique the result. But most people haven't tried two recipes side-by-side to see what difference is possible and what causes it.

So, a recipe comparison is interesting.

tastefive

Posts that go into how a recipe is developed would be cool. Since this site seems to have a bunch on tinkerers.

Mien

I think it's already included as an answer in the scope question, right?

rumtscho

@tastefive This one too.

derobert

@rumtscho I don't think we should start out with sharing recipes. But after the blog is established, and we have a few regular authors that people know (from reading their posts), having them sometimes share their own personal creations or favorites would be interesting. And good filler...

Mien

I'm off to bed :)

rumtscho

10:23 PM

@derobert Yes, possible. But only after we are established as an "authority". And not too much of it.

Mien

If you decide something, wake me up!

derobert

@tastefive Yeah, posts on developing a dish would be good. Especially if they explain why different things are being done.

Mien

Nn.

tastefive

Or recipe showdowns. Two authors tasked to make a certain dish, have to create there own recipe and right the article how they did it, what problems they faced. and people can then vote on their favorite one.

Mien

@tastefive Also nice :)

derobert

10:26 PM

@tastefive will they have a secret ingredient? :-P

Mien

But it's hard to 'create' a recipe if you are used to using one every time you make that.

rumtscho

@tastefive I don#t think we can have an interactive element with voting.

tastefive

@rumtscho ahh

Mien

@rumtscho Well, couldn't people leave comments?

derobert

@rumtscho we could find a way. Comments, or alternatively, abuse meta :-P

Mien

10:27 PM

Or just vote in here, by starring.

It's just for fun, it does not have to be very strict.

Anyway, bye!

tastefive

well then it could be like the he made/she made column on food network magazine. those are still interesting.

rumtscho

We lack the infrastructure for such voting, and people can't taste the results anyway. The blog authors aren't all photographers, and the presentation is decisive in food you haven't eaten yourself.

The showdown itself is a good idea.

It is the "voting" part I find hard to pull off. Sure, readers can express their opinion in comments, but it won't be a thing with a clear winner, I think.

tastefive

@rumtscho I guess the assumption would be that people would have to try to make them both themselves.

@rumtscho true

rumtscho

@tastefive The readers? I doubt that we will have enough readers for the conversion rate to matter.

derobert

@tastefive Well, I doubt we'd have enough readers on the blog at first to pull that off, at least at first...

rumtscho

10:30 PM

Really, out of all the articles you read about food, how many do you make at home? One in a hundred?

tastefive

You can also to pantry checklists. For example "the Italian pantry" article on the main ingredients that you can keep in your pantry to give a dish the feel of that particular cuisine.

@rumtscho true

rumtscho

And I think that readers who are not as cooking-interested as we are cook new things less. So, if one reader in two hundred cooks it at home... we will need a thousand readers for a new post. I don't think we can get that.

derobert

rumtscho

@tastefive I like this idea. Especially it is not just a pantry, but also lists classic combinations.

derobert

Yeah. Server room AC fixed. By replacement.

@rumtscho Yeah, that could also give a few (simple) recipes based on the classic combinations

E.g., show how combination X can be used to make several dishes

rumtscho

10:33 PM

@tastefive you should write the showdown idea and the pantry idea into the posts list question. It doesn't mean that you have to be the one to write the posts, somebody else can use the inspiration if you don't have the time.

tastefive

@rumtscho sure

rumtscho

@derobert I would almost view this as a separate post, not bundled with the pantry.

derobert

@rumtscho Yes, that could be. It would be an acceptable way to do a "recipe" post, too.

I shall post it on meta.

tastefive

@derobert yep

rumtscho

@derobert You don't have to sneak "recipe" posts around me. The only objection I have to pure recipe posts is that they are not the information for which readers will come to us. If you have an idea which catches readers with something, it is perfectly OK to contain a recipe (at least in my opinion).

tastefive

10:36 PM

@rumtscho I agree, you guys will have a hard time being a pure recipe blog.

derobert

@rumtscho That's not sneaking it around you. That's sneaking it around your (perfectly valid) objections to plain recipe posts.

rumtscho

"A good pesto recipe" is boring. "Create five different dishes with just one plant" or "five uses for basil you never thought of" is good.

tastefive

brb, got to go to store.

derobert

0

A: Question ideas for a hypothetical blog

From Classic Combination to Many Dishes Explain how to take a classic combination of ingredients and/or methods and elaborate it into several dishes to show how recipes can be built from fundamentals.

... done.

Wow, we're up to 20 answers... will have more once @tastefive writes his up

rumtscho

@derobert as I said, ideas are the easy part. Transferring them to end products is work. Not necessarily hard work, but takes time.

If we have 26 ideas, we are covered for the first year. And some ideas can be reused - We don't have to stay with an Italian pantry, we can make one Italian pantry and one Thai pantry, for example.

derobert

10:45 PM

A lot of those ideas are generalizable

tastefive

@rumtscho well that was what I meant I wasn't just suggesting italian, that was just the first example to come to mind

rumtscho

@tastefive Yes, and it was a good thing that you suggested an example, it made it more easier to imagine what can be made with it. But I am happy that it can produce even more posts. We seem to have authors who are afraid of having nothing to write about, and a list of good, "milkable" ideas will probably make them more confident.

tastefive

11:15 PM

ok posted those ideas

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