Summary from Wikipedia - Our Lady of Zeitoun:
Our Lady of Zeitoun, also known simply as El-Zeitoun, Zeitun or rarely Our Lady of Light, was a mass Marian apparition that was reported to have occurred in the Zeitoun district of Cairo, Egypt, during a period of about 3 years beginning on 2 April 1...
The real miracle is that, with hundreds of appearances over a three year period, never was at least one decent camera and photographer present. ¶ Even if "the secular Egyptian government officially declared it supernatural", if we could see that report would it say anything more than that generality? ¶ In particular, what reason, beyond wishful thinking, is there for believing that the "supernatural" event actually was Mary?
Welcome to the site, user97698, and for this question. If you take the Tour: christianity.stackexchange.com/tour you will see what is looked for with questions. Generally, a screed of information is not useful unless it provides necessary details. Sometimes details can appear to be more of a promotion of a view than looking for answers to a question. Also, asking Protestants in general is a wide scope that also seeks opinions. The Tour will help guide you.
@user97698, in case you haven't noticed, I'm not interested in any answer that requires my watching a YouTube video. If it can't be answered in a few words, there's a problem.
@RayButterworth The first question requires images (photographs) to be answered, so it cannot be answered in a few words (unless you figure out a way to make an image fit into few words). The second question, answered in a few words, would be that you can abductively argue that this being Mary makes more sense (if you ask "why?", that would require more words).
Strange lights, things moving around in the sky, etc. I am willing to accept that such phenomena do happen and that there is no accepted scientific explanation for them. Some people see these events and claim it is little green men in flying saucers whilst others claim it is Mary. I'm looking for something that makes the Zeitun people different from the UFO people, but I'm not seeing it. All that has been presented so far appears to be the result of wishful thinking, not facts.
@RayButterworth If this firsthand eyewitness account doesn't do it for you, probably nothing will: youtu.be/GC1Bm_MVaCI?t=214. What he describes doesn't match with "green men" nor mere "strange lights".
"If this firsthand eyewitness account doesn't do it for you" — It won't; no more than the green-men testimonies do. Given the technology available, the widespread knowledge of the event, and the number of times it occurred, explain why there is not a single in-focus good-resolution photograph or video recording of these events.
@RayButterworth If God is omnipotent, explain why he hasn't performed an undeniable miracle on camera. Explain why God didn't miraculously broadcast the resurrection of Jesus worldwide and throughout all history. I can play the same atheist/skeptic card.
@user97698 says "explain why he hasn't performed an undeniable miracle on camera." — because that wouldn't be part of his plan. God doesn't want to convert the whole world yet (Consider that if he did, he's been doing a really bad job of it.) This current age belongs to Satan.
@RayButterworth Right, and the same explanation can be equally applied here: it was not part of God's plan that high quality camera recordings of the apparitions were produced. Thus, you are left with testimonies and not-as-great-as-one-would-like photographs. But if this is strong reason to dismiss the apparitions, then it should be an even stronger reason to dismiss the resurrection, and so this epistemology ends up backfiring. Of course, an atheist would be happy with that.
"I can play the same atheist/skeptic card." — It's not the same. My skepticism is about the claim that this phenomenon is specifically Mary, and not someone (e.g. Martha) or something (e.g. a demon or a space-alien) else. What evidence is there for this identification (other than people's wanting to believe)?
@RayButterworth What evidence is there that the apparitions of Jesus after his alleged resurrection were not a hoax performed by an alien civilization with advanced technology?
"it was not part of God's plan that high quality camera recordings of the apparitions were produced" — But Catholics do believe that it is God's plan to convert the world now. And consistently spoiling all visual recordings of the event for years would in itself be a miracle, but no one is claiming that.
"What evidence is there that the apparitions of Jesus after his alleged resurrection were not a hoax performed by an alien civilization with advanced technology?" — That's not what I'm saying. In fact, if the event in Egypt was a hoax, I'd expect there to be convincing photographs that expose the hoax. I'm asking, given that it's in Egypt, what reason is there to believe that this is the mother of Jesus and not the mother of Moses?
@RayButterworth "In fact, if the event in Egypt was a hoax, I'd expect there to be convincing photographs that expose the hoax" - Not if the hoax is performed by aliens or by the CIA with advanced secret technology. Anyways, the identification problem is indeed a problem, but the arguments given for this being the Virgin Mary are that (1) it cannot be demonic given the healings, the conversions of Muslims to Christianity, etc.; (2) Zeitoun is supposedly near one of the locations where the Holy Family stayed during their flight into Egypt; (3) it happened in a Coptic Church devoted to Mary.
@RayButterworth And consistently spoiling all visual recordings of the event for years would in itself be a miracle, but no one is claiming that This is a good point, but Travis Dumsday actually does mention that there were many cases of photographs not showing anything, even though the witnesses did see apparitions with their eyes. I don't remember which interview and which timestamp, but Travis did address that point.
Discussion on question by user97698: …
Discussion on question by user97698: …