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21:57
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Q: Theft of services at a ski area

GBGThis question asks for clarity on the definition of theft of services at a ski area in Washington State. This law defines the crime of theft of services in Washington State. The language of the law states the the individual willfully obtains the service with the intent to defraud. If you are st...

GBG
GBG
@Jen, yes, for an offence that has wilful obtaining of a service a necessary element of the offence, whether one commits that offence having not obtained any service? The question ask whether is is theft of services if no services have yet been accessed by the person in the chairlift line. A similar question might be if you entered a store with the intent to shoplift are you guilty of shoplifting if you have not yet shoplifted.
The crime would be attempted theft of services, presumably.
There are some critical details missing here such as where exactly the person in question was stopped. There is a big difference between getting stopped before lining up and getting stopped as you are getting on the ski lift. Looking at the shoplifting that was mentioned in another comment, if someone gets caught attempting to leave a store with items they didn't pay for it seems pretty clear what they would get charged with even if they didn't succeed in their efforts.
GBG
GBG
@Joe W. The individual would be stopped in the lift line a few chairs away from riding the lifts. The individual would clearly be intending to ride the lift. How or why the individual came to be in the line without a ticket does not matter. There is no way to prove intent to defraud by the lift operator.
You should include all of that in the question, and yes it does matter how/why they got in the line if they knew that a ticket was required to ride the lift.
21:57
As a pragmatic matter, an attempt to file criminal charges would be very unusual. This does happen now and then, and the response is almost always to trespass the violator, i.e. tell them to leave the ski area and not to return for some time period. The limited use agreement allows them to do this. It's most commonly done for unsafe behavior (recklessness or excessive speed in a designated slow zone).
On the other hand I guess criminal charges do happen: denvergazette.com/outtherecolorado/news/…
"There is no way to prove intent to defraud by the lift operator.". Except that "The individual would be stopped in the lift line a few chairs away from riding the lifts. The individual would clearly be intending to ride the lift." would make a pretty solid case... Don't you think?!
If the individual only wants to take some photos, but is cautious about marching to the head of the line, where is the intent to take a ride that was not paid for? When shoplifting, you have to actually leave the store with unpaid goods. Even then, it may be accidental and I once did that, immediately returning to pay for the goods. Similarly you may have forgotten to buy a ticket, or somehow thought they had some kind of complimentary right to use the ski lift. If you are stopped by ski area staff at the bottom of the lift without a ticket. Then you can't ride – end of.
@WeatherVane, Your first sentence makes no sense - if you are just there to take photos then why would you be wearing skis and standing in a lift line?! And you can be accused of shoplifting if you conceal an unpurchased item on your person while inside the store, no?
@MichaelHall where is it said that the person is equipped to ski?
@WeatherVane, where does it say they are just there to take photos? Either way, you need a ticket to ride. Skis or no skis.
21:57
@MichaelHall, the camera is in their pocket. The point of the question is that the person has not yet used the lift service. When there are staff in attendance, it would take a particularly aggressive corporate stance to sue anyone without one. Oh but I forgot: this is America, where they might even shoot you.
@WeatherVane, I know what the point of the question is. I think we agree that 1.) The wearing of skis or presence of a camera is completely irrelevant. 2.) Intent to ride the lift is established in the question. 3.) The most likely course of action would be to kick the person out of line to go buy a ticket, or kick them off the property if they were found to have already ridden the lift. Because a lawsuit for a one time offense would be overkill and expensive. Beyond that, what are we even arguing about, and why the cheap shot against America?!
Because I don't get why they would even want to sue someone who may have forgotten to buy a ticket. The question is as absurd as shooting them for not having a ticket. If they don't have a ticket, the civilised way to deal with it is to send them to the ticket office.
I think most people here agree with you regarding any lawsuit, but that is a possible (if extreme) outcome if theft of service is established.
@MichaelHall oh I see. Perhaps day after day the same guy tries to use the lift and never has a ticket.
Last year I rocked up to my local ski mountain with the intent to spend the day skiing. I geared up and got in line. When I got to the front of the line the scanner beeped and refused me entry. This was because although I had a valid season lift ticket, my ticket had blackout dates that I had forgotten about. All that happened was that the lifty said "Nope" and I did the walk of shame back to my car. This sort of thing happens all the time. And one of the jobs of a lifty is to stop people who have not paid from getting on a lift.
@MichaelHall One area where it might be possible to defraud the company running the mountain is for places that charge access for people who cross country or telemark ski. These people benefit from the maintaining of the mountain and runs etc, but don't use the ski lifts. My local mountain doesn't charge for such access so I don't know how the verification of payment is operated.

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