Thinking Out Loud

Shadow Wizard

21:00

/convert a gigantic bread monster is looming over my house. It says "BRING ME 100 TONS OF SALT OR I DESTROY THE WORLD". What should I do?

OakBot

@ShadowWizard Find a way to distract or negotiate with the bread monster while seeking help to gather the salt. (source)

Shadow Wizard

Nice.

Amit

/imagine bread for everyone in the chatroom, but turtles eat pizza

OakBot

@Amit Bad human! You are over quota and can't make any more requests right now. Try again in 1 hour.

Amit

=[

Shadow Wizard

21:02

So close!

Amit

no matter how far

doesn't matter if you're a כוזר

forever trust in the מנזר

lul

and not a lot of other items are of significance

Shadow Wizard

/imagine Yahav the Wizard eating bread while Amit the Turtle looking

OakBot

@ShadowWizard Bad human! You are over quota and can't make any more requests right now. Try again in 1 hour.

Shadow Wizard

:(

lol

Amit

=O QUOTA BUDDIES

QUOTA BROS

Empty quota of many, half a consolation ...

lol

Shadow Wizard

21:03

@Amit huh? This?

ממלכת הכוזרים

ממלכת הכוזרים או כזאריה הייתה כגאנות טורקית שהוקמה בערבה האירואסייאתית והתקיימה בראשית ימי הביניים בתקופה שבין המאה ה-7 לתחילת המאה ה-11. בשיאה, כזאריה שלטה על צפון הים הכספי, על חלקים מצפון הים השחור כולל חצי האי קרים, על אזור הנהרות וולגה ודון ועל צפון הרי קווקז. לכזאריה הייתה תשתית חקלאית אך גם תשתית מסחרית מעצם מיקומה על צומת מסחר בדרך המשי והיא שלטה על נתיבי הסחר בין סין, הודו ופרס במזרח, ביזנטיון ואירופה במערב, השבטים הרוּתֶנִים בצפון והאימפריה המוסלמית בדרום. על פי מקורות יהודיים ומוסלמיים, אימצו הכוזרים או חלקם את היהדות, אך ישנה מחלוקת נרחבת בין היסטוריונים על הזמנים וההיקפים של גיורם...

Amit

that's right

it just rhymes really well with stuff

Shadow Wizard

But why not just אכזר? ;)

Much more common!

Amit

it's not funny, and not racist

lol

Shadow Wizard

הכוזר האכזר
השמיד את המנזר

Amit

that's better

but i was going for the metallica thingy

Shadow Wizard

21:05

ah

I was more into G&R

Amit

what's that?

Shadow Wizard

Or ר&ש

:-D

Amit

guns and roses

Shadow Wizard

@Amit Like Metallica but different band. :P

@Amit yipi!

Amit

oh yea but when you wrote

"so close...."

they have this famous song y'know

Shadow Wizard

21:07

Actually no lol

I'm bad with remembering song words.

OakBot

@ShadowWizard Hi bad with remembering song words, I'm Oak!

Shadow Wizard

)-:

Amit

Nothing Else Matters (Remastered)

►

Shadow Wizard

@Amit ahhh! This one I do know.

Amit

So close no matter how far, even if you're a KOZAR, forever trusting in MINZAR

Shadow Wizard

21:08

:D

Dang! Just saw it! MIN-ZAR.... strange(r) s*x..... ROFL

Amit

I'm into childish humor, laughing about accents and silly puns

lol

I didn't think about that one

Shadow Wizard

I didn't as well, until you wrote it this way. :P

@Amit heh, like the ריץ' רץ' song? :D

Amit

what's that?

Shadow Wizard

/convert what are the words of the ריץ' רץ' song?

OakBot

@ShadowWizard Sorry, I can't provide the lyrics to that song. (source)

Shadow Wizard

21:10

buh

> ריצ'רץ'
מילים: עמוס אטינגר
לחן: נתן שחר

העולם הוא כדור, זה ברור, זה ברור,
אבל מה לא יודעים, מה שיש בו בפנים.
לשם כך, לשם כך, לשם כך, לשם כך,
את הריצ'רץ' נפתח.

את הריץ', את הרץ', את הריצ'רץ' נפתח
ונראה עולמות משונים.

מה בריץ' מה ברץ'? נסתכל ניווכח,
מה שיש, מה שיש בו בפנים.
מה בריץ' מה ברץ'? נסתכל ניווכח,
מה שיש, מה שיש בו בפנים!

חידונים, ציורים, מכתבים ושירים
שכתבנו לבד ונגיש פה מיד,
לשם לכך, לשם כך, לשם כך,
את הריצ'רץ' נפתח.

את הריץ', את הרץ', את הריצ'רץ' נפתח...

/convert translate to English the following:
ריצ'רץ'
מילים: עמוס אטינגר
לחן: נתן שחר

העולם הוא כדור, זה ברור, זה ברור,
אבל מה לא יודעים, מה שיש בו בפנים.
לשם כך, לשם כך, לשם כך, לשם כך,
את הריצ'רץ' נפתח.

את הריץ', את הרץ', את הריצ'רץ' נפתח
ונראה עולמות משונים.

מה בריץ' מה ברץ'? נסתכל ניווכח,
מה שיש, מה שיש בו בפנים.
מה בריץ' מה ברץ'? נסתכל ניווכח,
מה שיש, מה שיש בו בפנים!

חידונים, ציורים, מכתבים ושירים
שכתבנו לבד ונגיש פה מיד,
לשם לכך, לשם כך, לשם כך,
את הריצ'רץ' נפתח.

את הריץ', את הרץ', את הריצ'רץ' נפתח...

OakBot

"Zipper"
Words: Amos Atinger
Music: Nathan Shachar

The world is a ball, it's clear, it's clear,
But what we don't know, what's inside it.
For that, for that, for that, for that,
We'll open the zipper.

The zipper, the run, we'll open the zipper
And see strange worlds.

What's in the zipper? Let's look and see,
What's inside, what's inside it.
What's in the zipper? Let's look and see,
What's inside, what's inside it!

Riddles, drawings, letters, and songs
That we wrote alone and will present here right away,

Shadow Wizard

hehe

Amit

lols

I like it a bit more quirky

cf:

Dábuerre

►

Shadow Wizard

/convert please give five examples for popular songs by mainstream rock bands, where the songs focus on a zipper.

OakBot

1. "Zipper Down" - Eagles of Death Metal
2. "Zipper" - The Plasmatics
3. "Zipper" - The Smashing Pumpkins
4. "Zipper" - The Offspring
5. "Zipper" - Say Anything ([source](https://www.convert.net))

Amit

21:15

lol it's so good

Shadow Wizard

only the first is real, looks like the others are typical AI hallucination.

Amit

yea

which BTW what I sent is too :P perhaps hallucination , but a well crafted one

Shadow Wizard

AI: Amit Intelligence!! :P

Amit

lols

actually I'm not sure, one source I checked says AI, another says it's Ido Katzir, a comedian

it sounds a bit too real for AI actually

@ShadowWizard Idk what I would prefer :P

Amit

21:36

/imagine bread for everyone in the chatroom, but turtles eat pizza

OakBot

@Amit Bad human! You are over quota and can't make any more requests right now. Try again in 1 hour.

controlgroup

I was invited here an hour ago

what is it

Amit

@controlgroup yeah it was me

hi!

controlgroup

I noticedf

what's up

Amit

Wanted to tell you, that question you answered recently, seems like a fake profile. No way someone with PhD from Oxford is asking that seriously :P But, by now this account is already suspended due to plagiarism, apparently due to issues with questions he answered on

Nothing is wrong I just thought you would like to know

.. and I thought it wouldn't be appropriate to write that in a comment :P

controlgroup

21:46

Yeahhh this was probably the better option

You mean this question?

Amit

@controlgroup correct

controlgroup

I honestly didn't even read the profile

but yeah that seems about right

Amit

@controlgroup why would you? :) what prompted me to read it, is in fact one of the answers he gave on another post that by now is deleted. It seemed AI generated

controlgroup

That would definitely be suspicious

it is deleted now yeah

I don't have sufficient rep to see deleted stuff but I believe you

Well I hope that person gets the message

Thanks for letting me know

Amit

@controlgroup nah me neither, I saw it before, I think it just came up in my review queue

controlgroup

21:48

Mm

I honestly didn't know plagiarism was a suspendable offense

I knew about ban evasion and spam but not plagiarizing

Amit

@controlgroup Sure, don't delete your answer or anything. The user may have been just trying to pump rep, but it's a legitimate question nonetheless, even if it was also AI inspired or something lol

controlgroup

No yeah it was a good question

Especially good considering that GPS is one of those things that gets brought up constantly in discussions of GR's existence/nonexistence

Amit

yeah

controlgroup

Thanks for letting me know abt that, I would have had no idea otherwise

Amit

@controlgroup Sure thing.... about Plagiarism, there are several posts on meta on it, here's one you may wanna take a look at

There's also a general guideline now that copy pasting from generative AI without citing it as such == plagiarism

controlgroup

21:52

Yeah I know about the generative AI bit

Amit

ah, alright :)

controlgroup

it's honestly way better here than on other stacks from what I've seen - other places there are accounts that just post gen AI qs/as and get tons of upvotes

Amit

Maybe it's just a harder area to do it successfully at... still :P

controlgroup

yeah XP

It sucks because chatbots are really good at coming up with stuff that sounds like it could be physics to someone who doesn't know anything about physics

primarily because that - pop sci with all sorts of handwavey and sometimes wrong explanations - is what they're all trained on because that type of stuff is what the majority of the public internet consists of

Amit

yes... they are able to give a lot of correct information too. What mostly gives them away, is their inability to really pin down what the OP was confused about / misunderstood. That's something a human easily notices from a qualitative appraisal of a question that the bot is still lacking, hence the AI's answer often falls "flat" and remains at the level of dry information

Amit

22:22

@controlgroup regardless of all that welcome to our humble chatroom :P

controlgroup

haha Thanks, seems like a nice enough place

we've got /imagine too so that's not nothing

Amit

:) @OakBot is an old timer by now.... i still have mixed feelings about him... lol

OakBot

@Amit Hey, I'm just chilling here! No mixed feelings necessary. 😄 Just enjoying the chat and hanging out with everyone.

Amit

/imagine big pretty welcome sign for controlgroup

OakBot

I'm going to use this prompt instead: Show a large and attractive welcome sign. The sign is festooned with twirling metal vines and blossoming flowers all around the frame, casting playful shadows on the lacquered wood signboard beneath. Painted on this sign, in an elegant cursive, are the words 'ControlGroup', each letter in a different vibrant color. Illuminated edges highlight these letters and create a radiant charm. The background is a deep blue dusk sky, speckled with pinpricks of ...

starlight, that emphasizes the beautiful glow of the welcome sign.

> i.sstatic.net/lGRKTjJ9.jpg

Amit

22:29

ah, nearly

controlgroup

Lol, it forgot about the group

*control

No control, just group

Amit

let's try again

/imagine A big pretty welcome sign for a cool person with the precise name "controlgroup"

OakBot

@Amit Bad human! You are over quota and can't make any more requests right now. Try again in 13 hours.

Amit

awww =[

see, mixed feelings

controlgroup

darn

As fun as unlimited computing power at the tips of our fingers would be...

electricity costs money :/

user430580

22:34

Hello, I will draw your avatar by hand in MS Paint, just give me a few minutes :P

2

Amit

@controlgroup yep.. just today I think someone posted some billing info related to this bot

controlgroup

Haha thanks

Yeahh that checks out

Turns out that I actually generated this avatar with a gen AI way back before they were a big thing

Like a REALLY long time ago, when GPT-3 was all brand new and still not released to the public yet and "AI" wasn't a word you heard nearly as often

forget what site it was though

Amit

4 hours ago, by Petəíŕd the Wizard

yesterday, by Petəíŕd the Wizard

in Root Access, Aug 26, 2023 at 14:26, by Michael

The issue where Oak was spamming messages only resulted in about $0.15 worth of quota. All of the image generation cost about $3 lol

mine is also AI gen'd. From deepdreamgenerator

It's from about two years ago

controlgroup

I've been using this one forever

Amit

DDG? It's rather nice isn't it?

Oh do you mean the avatar

controlgroup

22:39

Yeah

Amit

GPT3 was released in 2020

controlgroup

I've had this profile since I think like 2018 or 2017

something like that

Amit

oh, early adopter :P

controlgroup

"adopter" - I was just fooling around with it at the time, still sort of am now

Amit

same here :) I'm just being silly

controlgroup

22:41

ChatGPT and the like are fun for doing a bit of algebra/code when I'm too lazy to do it myself but they're not all they're hyped up to be imo

Amit

Agreed

controlgroup

Gemini can talk to you in real time, sure that's cool, but people go on and on about "we've invented AGI" and no we haven't we've invented a better chatbot :P

Amit

I bet it's really interesting for people working on it, to figure out how it asymptotes in its helpfulness and trying to overcome these issues etc.

But AI was never my area :P

controlgroup

Mine neither

closest I've gotten is writing a couple FNNs to do some categorization for me (and it worked okay but not much better than okay)

Amit

You're a GR guy, if I'm allowed to extrapolate from the kind of posts I see you active on :P

controlgroup

22:45

Mhm

primarily GR/cosmology is study but most of my research is in aerospace

guess where those two worlds collide, too :P

Amit

Cool, you mean aerospace engineering?

controlgroup

Yeah yeah

Amit

I knew it, you build the rockets for NUKES

:D

it's okay, you don't need to confirm or deny

controlgroup

Nah lol I would never

Amit

:)

controlgroup

22:47

It'd take a few billion for me to ever build a weapon, and I'd spend that money on making sure it never gets used

Amit

tbh, I figured you probably wouldn't (otherwise I wouldn't have joked about it)

controlgroup

Lol ik it's alright

primary research is on propulsion systems

Occasionally I'll draw up a silly sketch of a futuristic spaceplane but that's not like actually what I work on

Amit

very cool

controlgroup

I promise I don't build ballistic missiles :>

Amit

@controlgroup You know, even that coin has two sides. There are defense missiles too

I never saw evidence that any of them work... but that's a different story

I mean interception etc.

controlgroup

22:50

Sure those work

I mean sort of

Israel put a lot of money into missile defense and they've got the best system in the world

dk if it actually runs on interceptors but they can block something like 98-99% of rockets

Amit

That's the official story and I want to believe it for obvious reasons

(I'm an Israeli citizen)

controlgroup

well yeah haha

obv I wouldn't know

I don't exactly work for the Israeli military

Amit

lol, not exactly? :) but sort of?? :P

controlgroup

Haha I mean I don't work for any military

Amit

that's good

controlgroup

22:53

None of them want me anyway

Amit

=O how rude

of them

controlgroup

I mean I can't do active combat anyway

I'd pass out in like 5 minutes

Amit

oh, but a lot of aerospace companies are military contractors regardless

controlgroup

and no way am I building missiles for anyone

@Amit yeah well that's what you get

Amit

missiles, fighter jets, all that jazz

yes

controlgroup

22:54

I once got close to winning an award from Northrop Grumman but I'm honestly glad I didn't

Amit

Northrop!! See I think that's another sham. Don't they claim they can intercept missiles with lasers?

controlgroup

they claim a lot of things haha

It's terrifying because all the crazy claims about militaries out there are either a) complete conspiracy theories/propaganda or b) stuff the American CIA actually did during the cold war

Amit

That's what makes me doubtful of all this interception stuff. and we all know the shameful mess that the patriot was in the gulf war

controlgroup

yeah

Damn one sec gotta reset a 3D print

Amit

There's actually this MIT professor... Ted Postol, who basically says that a lot of these systems don't work

@controlgroup printing a warp drive I'd imagine :P

controlgroup

22:58

haha as it turns out yeah

you won't believe it but i did find a near-vacuum EFE solution that has desirable properties

so I'm working on printing out a prototype to run with the facility interferometer

Amit

omg... :) crazy

I'm not sure what you just said though, lol

@controlgroup you're messing with me right??

controlgroup

i am actually not

user430580

almost there!

OakBot

@controlgroup Hi actually not, I'm Oak!

Amit

=O

lol

controlgroup

23:00

@user430580 yaaay!

Amit

@controlgroup well that's crazy then... well done :) is it like, something practical? do I need to prepare my space trolley?

controlgroup

I'm planning on publishing my findings later this year so if NASA fast-tracks me you could probably expect a warp-capable spacecraft before 2030

but I won't guarantee anything timeline-wise beyond that

Amit

and what will the interferometer do with it.. ?

controlgroup

Interferometer is just to test it

make sure it actually works

Amit

I'm not THAT daft lol

controlgroup

23:02

It is practical (in some sense), the energy densities are arbitrarily tunable so you could get going as fast as you want with very little matter but you need very fine control over its density configuration

still working on getting a reasonably-simple solution for the energy densities (like constant, square-of-radius, etc) so that the densities aren't too complex but I can get them as low as needed

Amit

you know... I did see the "mtf novelist and short story author" bio you wrote so... I think you're employing these skills on me now :)

controlgroup

Oh that's cuz I started my SE account on WB:SE

which is why my score there is also the highest

Amit

yes, anyway interferometer is for optical experiments...

controlgroup

You can use it to detect G-waves though

Amit

LOL

controlgroup

23:04

(LIGO, VIRGO, etc)

Amit

now you cracked me up

controlgroup

which the warp drive produces in very large quantities

Amit

LOL

good one, well done , I was really taken there for a while

well played

controlgroup

I mean if you wanna see the warp drive metric you can, if you've got a decent GR knowledge

Very simple proof that it allows lorentz factor to be 1 for velocities above 0

Amit

lol

so what were you really printing

controlgroup

23:05

Not even joking right now, I'm actually waiting on parts to finish printing so I can build a prototype

I've got engineering drawings down and everything

Amit

ok, what is its fuel source, element 115? :P

controlgroup

I mean warp drives just require energy density in general

I was planning on using an ideal-ish gas like CO2 or something reasonably safe so that I could do some decent approximations on its mass-energy density given pressure/temp/whatever

I would use something like helium or xenon or some other noble gas but it's much more expensive and my lab had CO2 on hand already

Amit

well, if it punctures a hole through spacetime in your backyard, just remember that you don't really have to Kerr

controlgroup

HAH

nice

user430580

2

Amit

23:08

wow, pretty

user430580

thank you

controlgroup

yaaay! much better than anything I've drawn in so short a time

Amit

I would like a 3d printed version of that

controlgroup

(I'm not an artist in the slightest)

user430580

thanks :P

Amit

23:09

he made your $o$'s into $\theta$'s, so cute :P

controlgroup

fr!

@Amit yk that was actually a pretty real concern; the way it works involves making a region of slight time-contraction which is not consistent immediately outside the warp bubble

so in my proposal I had to include a ton of very strict rules regarding when the thing may/may not be turned on

Amit

@controlgroup lol I wish I knew anything about theoretical warp drives to meaningfully engage in this gobblygook :P I just know there's this Alcubierre thingy, and you can find some posts on it on the site too

controlgroup

Oh man the Alcubierre drive was silly

I mean cool! but the way he went about conjuring it was a little silly

Amit

lol

sure it was silly, it didn't work, unlike your 3d printed contraption

controlgroup

Seems more logical to find a simple spacetime that has the desired properties than say "here are the desired properties" and let the ADM formalism spit out a very complex spacetime

@Amit didn't say my contraption works! that's the whole point of my research atm, finding out if it does

I think it should given the theory behind it but of course that's just a theory

Amit

23:12

I'm preparing my space trolley just in case

Better safe than stranded

controlgroup

Yeah safe than sorry

Amit

sorry, right, oops

controlgroup

Same thing lol

I doubt it's gonna see in-space use anytime soon let alone civilian development so

Need to actually prove it works before trying to sell it to ESA/NASA/JAXA! haha

Amit

it just needs energy density

still chuckling from that one

controlgroup

I mean it does!! Sometimes relativity is just silly like that

Amit

23:14

Yes it needs to be pumpin' that S-E tensor right

controlgroup

Yeah

Amit

Then a few hundreds of ODEs later, za-bing you're on the other side of the galaxy

controlgroup

don't even try and talk to me about the math, it was already trauma enough trying to figure out how to get my computer to do it for me

The only way I was able to figure any of it out was by assuming constancy in a few regions, spherical symmetry, positivity of a few things and that the thing wasn't actively changing direction

Amit

see that's why chat is cool, I would never know this side of you from the main site

controlgroup

Oh yeah, never

most of my real-life friends don't know either (I would hate to bore them with how I just figured out how to make the drive 0.08% more efficient)

Amit

23:17

lol

Elton John - Rocket Man (Official Music Video)

►

controlgroup

oh man I wonder if a space agency would actually allow me on a rocket

2

Amit

so you think it's gonna be a long long time?

controlgroup

Not a long long long time perhaps, but yeah a long long time :)

Amit

and that sums up how a physicist carries out an approximation...

controlgroup

yep

Amit

23:19

did you read Zelazny's Amber?

controlgroup

average cosmologist approximation: assume that pi is roughly 1

@Amit I did not

Amit

:D

oh... well, I'm re-reading the series now. I'm a big admirer of it

controlgroup

looks interesting

maybe I'll buy the first book

Amit

You won't regret it imo :)

It's all written from a first person narrative, I love that kind of style

but that's just the icing on the cake

controlgroup

RRGH can't get this 3d print to stop peeling up, angry

@Amit agreed

Amit

23:22

@controlgroup what's RRGH?

controlgroup

me being angry at myself for not figuring this out faster

Amit

oh, lmao

warp drives are known to take a lot of juice from them printers eh

controlgroup

it's just me being dumb about how I'm printing it

Amit

I mean I wouldn't want to build a printer that can withstand infinite curvature

controlgroup

I'm printing a smaller cap piece and it needs to be as close to schematized dimensions as possible but it keeps peeling up towards one end

I turned on the brim, hopefully that'll fix it

@Amit oh don't worry mine breaks down with very little curvature! Simply falling a certain distance in Newtonian-approximation spacetime is enough to break it, usually on contact with the ground ;)

Amit

23:26

rofl

and lmao because I realize how appropriate is rofl here..

controlgroup

Hah yeah lol

Amit

I guess it's all that post Newtonian modernism trend, you can't even print your warp drive peacefully anymore these days without someone criticizing you

controlgroup

smh, damn modernists trying to tell me how my 3D printer needs to account for the curvature of the underlying spacetime !!

Really grinds my gears

Amit

lol, it's a real pain in the manifold

almost like a charge

controlgroup

LOL

Amit

23:31

/imagine I like my manifolds smooth

OakBot

@Amit Bad human! You are over quota and can't make any more requests right now. Try again in 12 hours.

Amit

aw, that could be interesting

controlgroup

can't wait to see what it thinks about smooth manifolds

Amit

lol

3d printing a smooth manifold... ran out of ink when trying to satisfy hausdorff...

controlgroup

Ruh roh...

Thinks aboutta get discontinuous

Not simply connected at ALL

Amit

23:33

funny, that's more or less what my last girl told me

controlgroup

Sort of a cringe breakup line ngl

Amit

:D

tbh if you're gonna get dumped, this way is better

controlgroup

perhaps yeah

Amit

our relationship has become future inextendible

how can you be mad at someone saying that??

😂😂😂

controlgroup

Honestly I would applaud

I would be impressed that they found a way to break up with me that is a) not unclear/rude and b) somehow incorporates my interest area

Amit

23:36

yes... and there's another bonus

you can then nitpick and say "if it's inextendible it has no endpoint"...

"we're stuck together, forever approaching the singularity... aww I didn't know you care!!"

controlgroup

When the differential geometry skill saves your relationship

Amit

:D

exactly

ok I gtg thanks for the laughs... btw if you read Nine princes in amber (the 1st book) let me know what you think :) good night!! :)

controlgroup

alr, gn!

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