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05:40
I already know how the response is gonna be... well none of my verses imply that satan has a physical form. And the test angels by asking for a handshake...
 
6 hours later…
11:35
I don't think an anti-mormon article is too relevant. If you want to talk about twisting words there you have it. IMO the fruits question (from the article) is a result generally of people saying what good has the LDS church done (if there is no good its a malicious lie), and the LDS church answers, and now its 'bad' because we're talking about it.
just because your/mainstream understanding of the bible doesn't line up with LDS doesn't mean it is twisting anything. This site is about learning about other faiths not disparaging one/minority because it doesn't align with your views. The same logic you are applying to the LDS (twisting scripture) can be applied to your own understanding. Accept that different people have different interpretation of scripture. Yes you believe your interpretation is correct, but so do other faiths.
11:58
I wouldn't ever reference an anti-sect article.
I hope you don't mind my probing the LDS origins and stuff, it is interesting to me
@Matthew you do tend to be... very "pointy", please recall you will almost never "debate" someone into a different faith.
12:12
At least, I hope I don't reference such articles. I usually find it doesn't help, it just makes both sides into a war instead of a conversation. Nothing wrong with using such a site as info, but never directly referenced and always filtered through my own thoughts
12:50
I liked the updated answer btw
John of Damascus tells us, "Of the future both the angels of God and the demons are alike ignorant; yet they make predictions. God reveals the future to angels and commands them to prophesy, and so what they say comes to pass. But the demons also make predictions, sometimes because they see what is happening at a distance,and sometimes merely making guesses. Hence much of what they say is false, and they should not be believed, even although they do often, in the way we have said, tell what is true; besides, they know the Scriptures.
Esaias writes, "How has Lucifer, that rose in the morning, fall from heaven! He that sent orders to all the nations is crushed to the earth. But thou saidst in thy heart, 'I will go up to heaven, I will set my throne above the stars of heaven; I will sit on a lofty mount, on the lofty mountains toward the north.' But no thou shalt go down to Hades, even to the foundations of the earth (Is 14:12-15)."
The eastern orthodox understanding is that ALL angels do not technically have a material form. This would be angels and demons. We know angels can be in human form, and cannot be distinguished from other Humans.
(they are however more "material" then God himself is (except for Christ of course)
Infact, there is quite often the easiest version of demons to "summon" so to speak is to simply attempt to pray to God the Father, Christ the Son, and the Holy Spirit... demons will routinely go after people attempting to pray. The little voice in your mind saying that "you don't need to pray" or "there is no God" or "You're a good person you don't need to repent" etc... and as soon as you screw up there are also there "You're evil, you're going to burn, you are like us, you will be with us, HAHA we got you!"
It often is suspious when anyone claims that they have no issues praying. It should always be like that... and we hope it is so, but ... truly the forces of evil are like solar winds, grinding away at our will with invisible powerful scorching fire
when is there not that little voice... "you don't need to... you don't deserve to... you don't want to... "
major visions are not how the enemy operates, it would confirm that they exist.
it's only for the purposes of causing mass sin or to confront the strongest of saints where demons show up in full blown deceitful visions or dreams
13:23
Anyways, your updated answer about Moroni is more aligned with my question
The other one regarding how to validate the 1st vision and moroni Pre-Book of mormon... is not quite there
 
5 hours later…
18:45
"The existence of "the Holy Ghost" has not been established."

Wait, what? Are you now not accepting the testimony of the Bible?

"because meditation resulted in a feeling of spirituality."

No. You're blindly trying to liken something you clearly have no experience with to something more familiar by strained analogy. I know what you're describing, and that is not at all the same thing as a spiritual prompting. Not even close.
19:20
@MasonWheeler Not personally, no, but I'm looking at the question "is LDS correct" from that external perspective. If I start with accepting the OT+NT, that gives plenty of reason to reject LDS, so that's not a useful perspective. IOW, I'm taking agnosticism as the starting point.

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