for the crime of drinking liquor, the punishment for lower varnas was... nothing, enjoy. for the same crime, the punishment for a brahmin was drinking boiling lead until his internals burned him to death. yeah, dharmashastras were really unfair to the lower varnas for sure.

@ram A user told me only Yama had right to that punishment also keyword "MOSTLY" I know those instances exist including regarding theft.

@ram sir with all due respect there is no proof of Karma and it seems you're just making an assertion which would lead to an oppressed class. What I want is actual reason based on the occupations as to why certain Varnas had less punishments. Infact a Brahmina of high birth should have more privleges certainly, due to his lifestyle, but severe consquences if he breaks the laws. Infact he isn't given dealth if he commits some of the terriblest of acts. I want reason not a theological ramble.

I hope your mind can understand the difference between law and religious morality.

Also keep in mind I am not 100% opposed to the Dharmashastras infact I love a lot of content within them and I do believe Brahminas based on the lifestyle they live should be seen as high, privledged, learnt and given special benefits, but my concern is with when a higher varna commits a crime excluding Karma of previous life he should still be punished that's the fairness of the law, it would be nonsense if he wasn't and also nonsense if he got the privledges without doing his duty.

Again I can accept any answer based on reason, but Karma is theological and used to explain why some people are born poor or high and even the restriction inplace for each Varna, such isn't discrimination it's rules and duty. But, when it comes to actually making descions the law should be based on the severity of the crime and not wanton capital punishment with the sake of inducing fear although fear when used properly is obviously good. Also a member of higher class should be held to the same law.

"there is no proof of Karma" - believing in karma and rebirth is one the defining characteristic of a Hindu. without that, no point in debating on this website. the same laws of karma that determine birth also determine punishment and rewards. if you believe shastras, how can you choose which parts to believe and which parts to not believe based on your limited intellect's reasoning ?

@ram I still don't think you understand the difference between religious metaphsyics and law. Yes this is a Hindu site and in cases of heaven or hell Karma without question works, I am talking in regards to laws and ethics of that which is physical. And those laws were made by Rishis and not decided by Karma seeing as someone else and not the universe carries out the punishment.

If for example the dharmashastric punishments discussed heaven or hell, then obviously it would work, but when someone else is giving out the punishment then the system should be based on the physical over metaphysical.

the laws of rishis and the laws of Manu are all based on gruhya sutras which are from 6th anga of vedas called kalpa sutra, which is part of Vedas which comes from Bhagavan who created the 4 varnas. they are all part of the same law/morality/karma/religion/metaphysics

@ram yes and that's because Varna clearly had a rationale to it and a system. The basis of it being of birth and duties prescribed by it, with the rational being if a being was born into a household of commoners, scholars or kings, then they would be entitled to that lifestyle and hence an unequal, but fair balance of the universe must exist. I am speaking of okay, but if these laws are based on birth other than simply the metaphsyical views of past actions what else would this seemingly unfairness be in benefit to the physical. Why should the law be based simply on karma-

over the severity of the punishment. What is the observable benefit of it in doing justice this way?

you already mentioned it - with greater power comes greater responsibility. the converse is also true. with greater responsibility comes greater power. have you ever seen kings / ultra-rich be punished for a crime in the same way lower people are ? it's because the balance of universe is such that punishing them causes greater harm to the universe than not punishing them. it's why arvind kejriwal is in AC jail, it's why donald trump got an extension. also, the king is of lower varna than brahmin, so he doesn't have right to punish him. it's like a company VP can't fire the CEO, only owner can

@ram now to be fair a CEO can be fired if all workers consent, but there should still be a balance of privilege, now it is true the greater the demand a person is based on occupation the greater the benefit, but this must be balanced should it not? We cannot just say due to someone's birth they are totally, immune to punishment in this realm and free to do as they please. Even the king has constraints he must follow. Also that only gives a reason and not nessecarily, a benefit to the totality of society more of a natural occurance over a benefit.

Infact, in Europe we can see an abuse of this privledge and a shift to a society which supports the people.

Such as constitutional monarchy over absolute or direct democracy.

we're talking in circles.. yes, they are not free to do ANYTHING and get away. but that's not what we're talking about in your original question. whatever punishments (or lack thereof) mentioned in scriptures is within the bounds of moral/universal/karmic law. shastras know much more of the big picture than we do.

"We cannot just say due to someone's birth they are totally, immune to punishment in this realm and free to do as they please" - correct, and dharmashastras don't allow blanket immunity to brahmins. whatever leniency you are assuming to be overstepping the bounds is actually within the bounds, you just don't accept it personally that's all. the reason brahmins aren't awarded death for murder is that if a brahmin, who is generally extremely tolerant and patient actually had reason to kill someone, shastras wonder how bad a wrongdoing the victim must have committed to be killed by a brahmin

@ram okay, but what of one's who act contrary to that very nature? Also the action is still taken it doesn't matter the intention only situation.

we humans cannot consider all edge-cases. Yama and Bhagavan will take care of the rest. our only course is to follow shastras.