The DMZ - 2013-06-09

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1:51 AM

@Xander I've found these two extensions worthwhile. userscripts.org/scripts/show/162256 and chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/feedly-reader/…

2:32 AM

theregister.co.uk/2013/06/08/facebook_cloud_versus_cloud

@Adnan I'm a land owning white male. Voting rights, bitches!

3:02 AM

@Adnan See, the thing is that is already mentioned in the other answer. I was going to have it in my own answer but the other guy answered about a minute before me so I changed my answer to be more of a "how to configure it properly" thing. No point mentioning the exact same thing in two answers.

@RoryMcCune I suppose you went for the premium option?

@ScottPack 502 for the userscripts link.

Ahh nvm, it's displaying now.

@TerryChia Bad Gateway! Bad, naughty gateway.

3:57 AM

wow,thank you. is it a good scanner? — hd. 17 mins ago

I honestly wanted to first answer "How the f* would I know? Never used it myself, I just happen to know what a web server is and how to connect to it with a client." :))

@TildalWave I'm not sure but I think that would be considered rude.

Can we move that to Super User please? It's embarrassing :))

@TerryChia well that's why I didn't ;)

@TildalWave Already voted to migrate.

@TerryChia cheers

@TerryChia on a not completely unrelated note - what the hell could a person expect to get out of a vulnerability scanner, if that person can't even connect to a web server he just started?

@TildalWave One of the huge unsolved mysteries of life.

4:08 AM

@TerryChia I really want to give you a virtual wedgie now, Einstein!

user image

@TildalWave hahaha! Classic milhouse.

5:00 AM

1

Q: Giving away information after you die

You want to make sure that after you die, someone gets a vital piece of information from you (like the password from your bank account). But: You don't want anyone to be able to get that information as long as you are alive. You only want a particular person to be able to get that information. ...

encryption authentication

well this one is gonna get interesting

and yes... I'm grumpy, deal with it! :P

5:39 AM

Here's an appeal to all of you: please vote more often (up or down, you decide)! If you don't see yourself in this list, or really low down, yes it's you that I'm asking! Why am I asking? Because I've noticed lately that votes on Q&A (and comments) don't really reflect their value to the site and we're being beat by popularity votes instead of quality votes. Yes, that is my opinion, and no, this is not about votes for me. Thanks!

5:58 AM

@Terry I hope there's no sensitivity here, but trust me, I wouldn't say that if you didn't have a special place (you, and the other people around here). Simply because I feel that when I criticize you (or the other regulars) I won't be misunderstood. Like I said, frankly, I'm a little disappointed that that was your reaction. I wouldn't have said that to you if I didn't like your question more than the other guy's.

Your answer explicitly mentions the concept of whitelisting (disable directory listing for everything and then override). I really liked that.

This kind of reactions makes it difficult for me to criticize the regulars' answers. Happened once with another member and after that I no longer comment on his answers. I really hate to see this happen again with more people.

1

A: Giving away information after you die

A little more than a year ago, I was in a situation where I feared for my life. I gave this some thought and here's what I did. I made a video recording containing everything I wanted people to know after I die, then I've stored the video (in addition to some files) in a TrueCrypt volume then I ...

@Adnan +1 there but I really don't like the question as it's overly broad, and the fact that OP didn't care to edit it to be more specific. This is now answerable with gazillion of ways to setup a MFA, be it physical, virtual, legal or any other way... Also, would you mind, if I edit your answer for spelling and grammar?

@TildalWave not at all.

6:24 AM

@Adnan actually, it would be nitpicking really... it's good enough as it is, we're not lawyers here (I hope)

@TildalWave duuuuupe

looking for it now... on that note, I think we need a death tag. unless someone has a better name for it...

@AviD it's legal ... but if you want to be more specific than that, but less than death, then maybe event would do

@TildalWave yeah, but it seems to be a very specific subset of that, and its coming up more than once.

@TildalWave Yup, now we know this guy has no clue.

What if you use a password that works only on the first attempt, and just give it to the person you trust? — l19 2 mins ago

@TildalWave "event"?? that is like calling it "something"

6:35 AM

@AviD I remember seeing it, I looked for it a bit and couldn't find it. I assumed to was deleted for some reason

@AviD no no... event as in something after the fact

@TildalWave event literally means "something happening"

... or that happened, or will happen, or happens often, etc.

@AviD events are also really important aspect in decision making... then maybe decision-event?

@TildalWave maybe, but we're starting to get further away from the meaning of the tag.

I dont think it would help anybody find what they're looking for...

"life-event" might be closer, but then why not just drop the "event" and stick to "life"...

okay, there are a few around this.

6

Q: How to prepare for protecting identity after death?

In the context of online accounts and identities, what are some best practices to prepare for the one certainty we all face: not a one of us will get out alive.

access-control password-management identity

11

Q: How to secure identity after someone dies?

How would you go about securing the online identity(ies) of someone as best you can after they've died, when they haven't put anything in place ahead of time for this event? Assume we don't know how many identities or services they've used, but at the very least includes 3 email accounts with d...

too early for me to figure out the intricacies of the differences between those...

and then there's this, a bit more specific but perhaps the answer this OP is looking for:

12

Q: Is there a digital "safety deposit box" equivalent?

Digital safety deposit boxes: do they exist? if yes, are (any|they) trustworthy? There are many bricks and mortar financial institutions where one can rent a locked box in a locked room and be assured the contents are secure, that access is constrained and under strict and constant surveillance,...

encryption authentication confidentiality availability

hmm, those 3 are all by the same user. interesting.

@AviD yes, but then you could have all kinds of events: death, birth, wedding, divorce,... you see what I'm getting at? and as far as security is concerned, events are mostly relevant to changing state [of a property]... in (certain point in) time, space,... there's then all kinds of dimensions that might end up being separate tags and relate to security much the same

6:43 AM

@AviD and his last activity was on Sep 6th 2012. RIP

lol

@Adnan active on GIS ;)

looking for where to disappear to LOL

@TildalWave He obviously used the answers to find a way to share his password with one of his friends who kept his accounts active. DUH!!!

@Adnan and is now looking for a place where that hidden treasure is buried?

@TildalWave Of course. There's no other logical explanation.

6:53 AM

treasure hunting aside, any thoughts on the dupe?

@AviD #3 definitely doesn't count. #2 is a related but different topic. The only possible candidate is #1

@AviD add a comment with all three links (for reference, they're still all related), and then close it as dupe of #1

@TildalWave I wouldn't really say it's a dupe of #1.

It's very close to it, yes, but not a dupe.

I admit, I might be biased because I have an answer there, but looking at both questions and the answers in them, you can see that they're not really the same.

@Adnan close enough IMO and the answers then cover it 100%

@Adnan think of it this way, if it's closed, others won't be able to add answers to compete with yours (and it has enough up-votes to keep the question alive, a.k.a. not deleted) ;)

@TildalWave hahaha, its all about the rep, babay!

7:04 AM

@TildalWave I don't like to think of it this way. Regardless, how about you propose a dupe closure (VTC it) and we'll see the votes.

tell ya what, I will withhold my own modjudgement until after coffee. If it happens to be closed until then, so be it.

Also, last night I started watching Game of Thrones, and after the first episode, I must ask. Does it get better? Or should I just stop watching as it will continue on the same level?

7:23 AM

@Adnan it gets more so.

@Adnan Spoiler alert! Do not star this message unless you wanna know that in the end...

That question... it's not getting closed is it? The best reason I can think of is that it's too broad and I've asked OP to make it a bit more specific, which he neglected even after the edit. Not sure that's a good enough reason to VTC tho.

@TildalWave Well, so far you have two reasons. Too broad, and a possible dupe. I'd say go for it

7:41 AM

@Adnan It's a mixture of NC and NaRQ, at least according to their descriptions... I voted NC because the second half of the description suits my reasons for it better (will likely solicit debate, arguments, polling, or extended discussion). OP has been asked to narrow it down, he didn't see it necessary, I deem it necessary to protest due to it

@Crypto people, please have a look at this answer. In the second part it claims that a cryptographic hash could eliminate the bias in an ill-implemented RNG.

AFAIK (and I really have a very shallow understanding in the area) if you take 10 bits with 57% likely hood of ones, then roughly 6 of these bits will likely be ones, which means a certain set of output values is more likely to appear. Hashing, only masks this.

By generating a rainbow table of all of 10-bit combinations, and comparing them to the hashed output of our badly-implemented RNG, it's possible to detect the bias in the output by observing that hashes of numbers that have slightly more ones than zeros are generated.

I'm not sure how that would scale to more and more bits, but I think there's something wrong.

as usual it depends on the details

hashing the output of a decent non crypto PRNG that was sufficiently seeded can produce a crypto PRNG if you combine sufficient outputs.

I'm on the first page of all time reputation!

but rand() is a hopeless case. Too small state, short period, shitty seeding,...

7:58 AM

@CodesInChaos Attempting to study crypto, I find this very interesting. So a PRNG that doesn't fulfil the crypto-secure requirements (P(K+1) > 0.5) , could just be hashed and it will become crypto-secure.

@Adnan I think it's the best answer so far. It's pretty close to what I expected from makerofthings after our now deleted exchange in the comments... but didn't quite deliver in the answer then. The whole key to the question is IMO in that comment "@TidalWave how are hash collisions useful in this context?". Not so much for attack, but how to prevent it. And non-biased distribution is the key here IMO... as for the uses, @CodesInChaos you answered it also in one of your answers, remember?

@CodesInChaos I do trust what you say (I see your answers on crypto.SE) but is there any reference for that? (the hashing thing)

@Adnan One would need to look at the details. But in any case it's not better than simply hashing a key+counter

the idea is that you hope that the non crypto PRNG has 1) a sufficient periods and 2) exposes enough of its internal state to be equivalent to (key,counter)

3

A: Why is the diffusion property important in hash functions

Hash functions are used in many places, and some of them require more than collision and preimage resistance. A few examples: As a pseudo-random function in key derivation. Obviously the key should be as random as possible. As a padding in RSA. The security proofs are based on the random oracl...

@CodesInChaos if there was only such a thing as urand() :))

@TildalWave That didn't make sense whatsoever.

8:06 AM

@Adnan what didn't?

@TildalWave What you said.

@Adnan I mean which part

@TildalWave That's gonna be difficult to pinpoint. But mainly the part about not the attack but preventing it, and the non-biased distribution.

Buy anyway, that's gonna take into a very very long discussion.

@TildalWave there's penssl_random_pseudo_bytes() :D

@Adnan It's sunday, I have time... and yes, that was worded pretty strange I give you that

@CodesInChaos So.. no reference?

8:17 AM

I doubt any cryptographer looked into that, since it's a dumb scheme even when it works

The poster's scheme is certainly not secure

@Adnan what did you do last year to fear sudden disappearance?

0

Q: When using HMAC, does key encoding matter?

Given: H is a good hash function with block size L. K is a key of length >= L (recommended by RFC 2104). Khex and Kbase64 are ASCII encodings of K. In the HMAC algorithm, is there a good reason to prefer K over the other encodings? Obviously the HMAC algorithm would consider these distinct k...

hash entropy hmac encoding

@CodesInChaos crypto? seems fairly theoretical to me, nothing too specific about it

8:32 AM

fine with me

8:55 AM

9:24 AM

@CodesInChaos I understand your curiosity, but I don't think want to go into the details of that matter. Sorry.

np

@Adnan your post makes me very curious why you were fearing to get abducted

ah nvm :P

yeeey my mailserver works again

@LucasKauffman Convo: faoudgfougd98h7gdfg

9:50 AM

@Adnan well that proves it ;)

10:09 AM

@AviD hahaha I wanna hire this guy

11:08 AM

@TildalWave Proves what?

11:40 AM

@Adnan in there

11:56 AM

Sup

@D3C4FF Mostly quite today.

Has anybody here tried to sous-vide chicken using a normal pot?

@Adnan Yeah noted.

@D3C4FF Any creative DIY ways to control the temp of water and keep it around 65C?

@Adnan use a thermistor? That's what its for no?

@D3C4FF Got nothing at home. I have an aquarium heater, but it only goes up to 35C.

12:06 PM

Umm, okay. Maybe lay out exactly what you wana do?

Cause heating a small cup of water unevenly so one part is 65 degrees is different from heating an megaliter of water evenly at 65C

especially if we're improvising with aquarium heaters :P

@D3C4FF I have a small pot of water (1L), I want to keep the temperature as close to 65C as possible.

Currently I have it on the lowest level of my stove, and every 15 minutes I add some cold water

I have to do this for 3 hours!

Why? o_O

Do you have a thermometer?

Do you have insulation?

Thermos-flasks?

@D3C4FF "sous vide"ing some chicken. Yes I do. No. No.

Oh, so it needs to be in a certain sized containment vessel?

@D3C4FF A saucepan-size vessel is fine.

12:11 PM

Okay. Well. I have an idea. But it'd be dependant on what you have on hand...

You can insulate the pot from the heat source using pieces of metal which will dispearse the heat evenly across the base of your pan while also dissapating heat into the air, after a certain amount of metal is placed inbetween the temperature should get near to what your after

I personally have at home a metal plate that has large gaps in beween sheets to reduce the amount of heat tranferred while still transferring heat to some degree

@D3C4FF Brilliant!!

;)

@D3C4FF I have some pieces of metal from my previously molten pot. I've just put them under the pot, let's see..

@LucasKauffman Have you any luck getting py-bcrypt to work on Windows (not sure if you use Windows at all)? Or know any alternative bcrypt wrappers to Flask-bcrypt for Flask that doesn't rely on py-bcrypt?

@Adnan keep an eye on the temperature and let me know how it goes :) The more air gapped it is, the less thermal transfer (presumably your still using that electric stove?)

12:22 PM

@TildalWave If ever there was an invalid edit, it was that.

@D3C4FF Yes, electric stove.

@Adnan this: google.com.au/…

You could also boil a kettle and top up your container every so often to raise the temperature

12:50 PM

@TerryChia I didn't use py-bcrypt (don't think flask uses it either) I ended up writing my own class for password hashing based on PBKDF2 implemented in passlib

if you need to use py-bcrypt you will need to have C support

because otherwise it will be unworkable slow

@LucasKauffman Ahh, I was planning on using this: pythonhosted.org/Flask-Bcrypt but I might go down your route if I face too much problems.

@LucasKauffman That shouldn't be a problem for me. I think.

@D3C4FF hahah, surprising use of "air gap" for this room...

1:13 PM

@AviD :P I thought it relevant ^_^

1:36 PM

@Adnan how goes it?

last gangnam, I promise (I hope). This one actually works...

1:57 PM

@D3C4FF Very well, actually. Almost constant 67C (a higher than what I need, but still very good)

2:11 PM

@Adnan :)

3:10 PM

gorrammit, sometimes the client may be right, but still be an idiot.

Only thing worse than talking to stupid people, is talking to stupid people who think they're really smart.

> I can do a DDOS from my own computer!

@AviD The client is always right. And the client is always an idiot.

5

@TerryChia not always, I usually choose good clients.

still starrable, though.

@AviD Heh, one of the advantages of being your own boss eh? Being able to get slightly picky about your clients.

@TerryChia exactly.

and every time I convince myself to be less picky, and take a 2nd-hand project, it backfires.

3:32 PM

apropos that client, IS there any OS that is currently vulnerable to SYN Attacks?

3:58 PM

@ScottPack Thanks! I'll check them out.

2 hours later…

5:51 PM

@D3C4FF Oh, how grand! It was probably the best breast I've ever had. So juicy, wet, and tender. Thanks for the help!

6:41 PM

@AntonyVennard Yup, someone, somewhere thought they can use our bear's post for a spin platform. I was offended by their belief in our naivety, really.

@Adnan you know all too well I can't say it. Well maybe kjl4ppj-sd/43ghgh09sse9 ;)

@TildalWave @Lucas Shit! He's onto us! He deciphered the secret language! Plan B.. PLAN B!

@Adnan what? switch to left hand? :))

well this is an interesting one in my logs:
`46.118.157.164 - - [09/Jun/2013:06:27:07 +0200] "GET /?page=videogallery&id=2&type=2+++++++++++++++++++++++++Result:+%F4%EE%F0%F3%EC+%ED%E5+%ED%E0%E9%E4%E5%ED+/+%ED%E5+%F3%E4%E0%EB%EE%F1%FC+%EE%EF%F0%E5%E4%E5%EB%E8%F2%FC+IP HTTP/1.0" ref:"http://www.tildalwave.com/?page=videogallery&id=2&type=2+++++++++++++++++++++++++Result:+%F4%EE%F0%F3%EC+%ED%E5+%ED%E0%E9%E4%E5%ED+/+%ED%E5+%F3%E4%E0%EB%EE%F1%FC+%EE%EF%F0%E5%E4%E5%EB%E8%F2%FC+IP" -> url:"/tildalwave.cgi" agent:"Opera/9.80 (Windows NT 6.2; U; en) Presto/2.10.289 Version/12.02" 200 84620`

it turns out it-s windows-1251 encoded ... форум не найден / не удалось определить IP meaning forum not found / unable to determine the IP

anyone else seen something like this before?

6:59 PM

Someone accidentally pasted that into the URL?

@copy Googling it reveals otherwise.

@Tildal If I had a nickle for every time I saw something suspicious in the logs... I'd be a very poor man.

@copy no it looks like a SQLi test string to me

I almost never check my logs.

@Adnan yeah... I just stream my responses to cache and load it from there for inspection, when I'm arsed to check

anyway, it's an extremely poorly written spam bot, if it's trying to check for this win-1251 encoded string in utf-8 responses

Time to get some rabbits. Later, everybody!

7:13 PM

@TildalWave good choice, sir (or madam)

7:32 PM

@Adnan Was plan B the part were we use the alternate service or burn all the evidence and shoot ourselves in the head?

7:47 PM

aFirst time I'm watching Russia Today, it's pretty anti-American

8:00 PM

woah:

guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/09/…

well, that's his life ruined then. Wonder if he will 'vanish' and be rendered at some point...

@RoryAlsop yea saw it on the news today as well, that one will be Bradley Manning #2

brave guy though - must really have the courage of his convictions

@LucasKauffman Shit! Now you exposed our plan B! We must do the only honourable thing.

HARAKIRI!!!

@Adnan you go first...set the example!

@LucasKauffman Oh, tell me about it! It's just anti "The West". It doesn't matter what the situation is, they're always against.

8:08 PM

@RoryAlsop Sometimes I wonder if Obabma isn't worse than Bush regarding privacy

@RoryAlsop Sometimes I wonder if Obabma isn't worse than Bush regarding privacy

In better news - Metaltech got an awesome review in the Musician's Union Summer 2013 magazine!

2

@RoryAlsop Exactly my thought. But I wonder, wasn't there a better way to blow the whistle without exposing himself?

@Adnan he wasn't exposed at first, he deliberately exposed himself

@LucasKauffman Aha! That, I didn't know.

8:30 PM

@LucasKauffman you mean, somtimes you wonder - perhaps he isn't worse, after all?

and then you wake up and realize, of course he's worse.

@AviD Fucking Obama! He wants to destroy America and take away our guns!

@RoryAlsop grats!

@AviD :-) cheers

even though I've never heard of that magazine before... ;-)

It's the one for UK musicians

But the worst news today - Iain M Banks died

8:35 PM

@Adnan sometimes, exposing yourself is just an added bonus.

@AviD Adnan already knows that!

@AviD I love exposing myself.

@Adnan especially while "blowing the whistle".

But to be fair, the culture of self-exposure is quite important here.

8:48 PM

so I'm curious, @LucasKauffman or any other German-speaker: is this true?

user image

@AviD Do you mean the dropping or the existence of the word?

(by the way, it really annoys me when people call compounds words)

@AviD It was

I wonder what would happen if I posted this one here

hmm.. nothing!

let's try again.

user image

Well.. that's disappointing.

@LucasKauffman fascinating. Not only is there such a thing as "beef labeling", not only is it customary to monitor it, but there is a law regulating the delegation thereof.

@Adnan yeah, if the filetype is not an image type, magic onebox doesnt know to show it. You can force it (usually) by using !

user image

@AviD What I wanted was the the 4000px wide image to appear 4000px here and mess up the layout.

9:01 PM

ah, no, it always gets scaled.

Damn them good designers/developers!

onebox is maaaagik!

I'm recently finding it a little interesting that many of the questions I'm answering are about stuff on/with which I worked/played in the past few months.

:O

I'm starting, little by little, to gain experience!!

But but but but but.. I don't want to be old like @AviD or @RoryA

@Adnan hahaha, I'm being lumped in the same age-bucket as @RoryAlsop?

Wow, I guess this is what respect feels like. It's vaguely unsettling.

You're all old

:P

9:06 PM

@AviD Don't worry, it'll all go away once the little ones become 14.

ha

@Adnan ha! missed that boat, then...

besides, kids today turn teenager at age 9. Sometimes younger.

@AviD Damn it! Kids these days!

@Adnan There are so many intricacies in the SE code. Many times I find a way to mess with the system, only to learn that it's been anticipated.

I had to jump over many years, I remember that I started to become a teenager around 13, then suddenly in 16 I was forced into adulthood.

9:08 PM

@AviD 9? Does that mean I'm old too?

@Adnan is this going to be a letter to Penthouse?

@Adnan and what was Adulthood's name? ;-)

@AviD Not that kind!

@AviD Jesus! Didn't see it at first! :D

@ManishEarth Nah, don't worry. As long as you still use "LOL", you're still young.

@Adnan LOL lol lol lololol

woot, just took years off.

@Adnan ~~ha!~~ LOL

So Facebook told the NSA they cannot get all the private data on all users through a backdoor. They need to come through the front door, just like everybody else.

3

9:11 PM

@AviD You'll find out on Thursday.

9:23 PM

@RoryAlsop Since he unveiled and explained himself before they found him, and since his explanation was so thoughtful, it makes me think he's got a shot at getting public sentiment on his side, which would greatly assist him. He's certainly got a better shot at getting a sympathetic ear than Manning had.

@Xander the main difference being that manning was about non-us people and this being about US citizens

@LucasKauffman Ehh, I see that as a minor distinction, not the main distinction. I don't know if I'm representative of the typical American, but that's my opinion.

@LucasKauffman To me they're two guys who both though the government was doing something wrong, both released classified documents to demonstrate that, but chose entirely different paths to do that, irrespective of the contents of those documents.

9:38 PM

@Xander one chose wikileaks and the other a newspaper

I don't know what the difference is as the result is the same

@LucasKauffman That's part of it. One also carefully chose the documents he would release, the other dumped everything he could find to steal. One came forward and explained who he was and why he did it, the other one hid until he was turned in and captured.

@Xander true

To me, after reading this article, Snowden comes off as thoughtful, and principle-driven, at least for now. Manning...Didn't and doesn't.

9:53 PM

@RoryAlsop that's upsetting :( and I've found out by someone using a "iain m banks rip" username on the site

iain m banks rip

11

attacks linux malware windows

> "It just isn't fair that Windows users get all the viruses. I mean really, shouldn't Linux users be in on the fun as well? Well... thanks to the folks running the Wine project, Linux users can "catch the virus bug" too -- sort of."

@Adnan that's one funny link, but yes the list of viruses there that can run through WINE is pretty good, including what they can and can't do... do you have any more complete list for this?

I mean, it is from 2005 ;)

@TildalWave No, and I don't think you'll find any. A while ago, I tried to look for such update list, I couldn't find any.

@Adnan yes that's what I was afraid, I've been searching a while back also

@BadgerGirl I've noticed you're hanging around for while, but you haven't said anything. How could we entice you to join the conversation?

@Adnan tell @TerryChia to leave. ;-)

@Adnan Hi.

10:06 PM

@BadgerGirl So, Badger Girl, what brings you here?

Have you heard the tales and legends about or glory and infinite wisdom here in The DMZ?

@Adnan I was told they had cookies here, but apparently it's a lie.

@BadgerGirl Well, that's definitely @Terry then. He always eats the cookies.

In any case, it's time for me to hit the bed.

Good night, everybody.

@BadgerGirl no, the cake is the lie.

2

and, welcome :-)

@BadgerGirl lol, your profile brings back memories.... not good ones, I'm sad to say ;-)

well I'm having a rhubarb pie, and that's no lie :P

@TildalWave who ate all the pies??

10:13 PM

@AviD who stole all the stars?

@AviD Do they involve badgers and snakes?

hahahaha

@BadgerGirl well, obviously :-)

11:09 PM

What the bleep? C'mon people vote, vote, vote! Up, down, up, down, up, down... that's right, exercise your voting rights, you lazy bastards! :P Up, down, up, down, up, down!

Damn. Now I want cookies.

@TildalWave Fun Fact! Swiss chard looks very much like rhubarb to the untrained eye.

@TildalWave On an unrelated matter Swiss chard and strawberry pie tastes a bit earthy, but not terrible.

@ScottPack Man, I'd have to train to be that untrained... but yes you can make a salty pie out of it also and it's pretty good... add some hash into it, and it's a decent meal

this was not a crypto statement btw

Yes, I see what you mean, they're so completely dissimilar that there's no way someone who had never seen either growing could confuse them.

user image

user image

user20683

@ScottPack insomniacookies.com

user20683

Cookies, they can be delivered

11:19 PM

@WorldEngineer I have one of those places about..half a mile down the road?

user20683

@ScottPack well there ya go :)

So what's up with the coder invasion?

@ScottPack I get it they look similar on photos, but in reality rhubarb is 1) a lot bigger 2) tougher 3) tastes completely different 4) smells completely different 5) usually isn't so sensitive to heat 6) doesn't tear as easily ...

user20683

@ScottPack trying to broaden my horizons

user20683

also I'm a mod, it behooves me to be more familiar with possible migration targets.

11:22 PM

oh an rhubarb has a really tough root that's damn difficult to dig out once it's stuck in there

@TildalWave I still go back to the fact that I had never seen either not already cooked into dishes. Number 3 is how I diagnosed the error.

@ScottPack hehehe ok so I'll take it you don't garden

Last summer our neighbor was out of the county for a couple of months so we got to totally raid her garden.

@TildalWave Some, but I've never grown lettuces of any kind, nor either of those.

My broccoli and cantaloupe is doing fantastic this year.

@ScottPack I love it, but am glad that it's mostly my mom's hobby not mine, because it takes too much time honestly. But I love to plant strange stuff

and not just in my code either

@TildalWave Incidentally, this was our harvest one day. We did our best to take a little of everything but not so much that other people wouldn't get a change.

user image

11:25 PM

@ScottPack nice loot :)

You can see the plants in question. :)

The eggplant, beets, and okra are a bit hidden in there.

@ScottPack yup and frankly, it's really hard to tell from the photo which one it is... I can make out most of other stuff, but what's that in the bowl next to some tomatoes? Jalapenos?

@TildalWave That's the okra

@ScottPack ah okra.. .yup

it's pretty big

Unfortunately, yeah.

By the time we went over the okra was too big to be great.

Everything else was pretty fantastic, just not the okra.

11:29 PM

I like them smaller because they're softer and don't release so much of that mucus when boiling

user20683

Big okra's kind of nasty

@WorldEngineer yup

Agreed

@ScottPack Mmmmm - Mum used to make us Rhubarb Fool when we were little. We'd pick it in the garden and she'd do whatever is needed to make sure we weren't poisoned by it

that still looks like chard tho looking at it better, mainly because it's quite beat and heat stricken... my mom is trying out this year sprinkling with ashes water, and so far it looks pretty good (trying on short beans that didn't make it that well last year)

@RoryAlsop They ought to be with red stems and heat processed, that's all I know

11:35 PM

By and large stay away from the leaves, they have a much higher concentration of oxalic acid.

@TildalWave Yes, and after we noticed our pie was strangely "leafy green" flavored I looked it up and realized that I'll be able to tell the difference from that point on.

@TildalWave You see, they're clearly Swiss chard. I had only ever read a description of what rhubarb looked like, and had never seen chard.

@ScottPack well to me the most difficult is telling various herbs apart at the garden, because some look incredibly similar (say marjoram and oregano before they flower) and once you smell one, the scent is so strong you have problems with smelling the other one

Oh yeah, herbs are great for that.

tho to be fair, it wouldn't be a catastrophe confusing them in the kitchen either

I don't think I've ever grown marjoram.

I grow easy herbs - like the common weeds called chives, mint, strawberries, in fact anything which will happily self propagate and reappear each year is good by me

11:44 PM

there's tens of really similar herbs really ... I didn't know that before last year when I started researching a bit more, but now when I run out of something in the kitchen, I always find its closest substitute ... for example, you don't have oregano, use thyme... you don't have bay leaves, use juniper berries e.t.c.

Right now we only have broccoli, strawberry, cantaloupe, tomato, and green bean.

All of which should be ready to harvest just about the time we're set to move. :/

@tildal facebook.com/…

@RoryAlsop oregano is pretty easy to grow in pots once you get it started... and I use coco fibers + vermiculite + guano fertilizer mixture instead of soil to prevent rot, rust,... and it's a lot cleaner even if the cat drops the pot or something else happens to it

@TildalWave ahh - you have gone into "too much hard work" there - mentioning all those things. I like herbs I just cut occasionally

no watering or fertilising or any of that nonsense

@RoryAlsop waay!

11:48 PM

:-)

Met him in October along with Peter F Hamilton and Ken McLeod - lovely guys

@RoryAlsop neah it's easy I just order from ganja farming shops and mix in a huge barrel .. the rest is then really easy, the worst is to me if you have some plant pests and/or diseases, which such mixtures help reduce the chance of

@TildalWave hahahahaha

wonder if that gets you on a list of some kind

I should probably go to the wikipedias and see who this Iain Banks guy is. I've been seeing his name all day.

@RoryAlsop like I care... what could coppers do? Confiscate my chives?

@ScottPack My list of favourite writers has him on my list twice. 1st place as Iain M Banks for his sci-fi works, then 6th as Iain Banks for his other stuff

11:53 PM

it's just those kind of shops have it always all on stock and reasonable prices if you order in bulk ... it's not so easy to get such stuff here in normal shops... ok maybe bat guano, but the rest is not so easily obtainable

1 Iain M Banks
2 Peter F Hamilton
3 Charles Stross
4 Alastair Reynolds
5 China Mieville
6 Iain Banks
7 Ken McLeod
8 Isaac Asimov
9 Neal Asher
10 Christopher Brookmyre

@RoryAlsop I don't have a list like that but you seem to be reading quite similar stuff to me

@TildalWave Yay - book buddies :-)

Oh dear, the images when googling that just seem dodgy

google.co.uk/…

user image

@RoryAlsop hahaha

user image

yeah - I know, it's my mind

11:57 PM

@RoryAlsop now you understand my gravatar ;)

I was sure Cyanide and Happiness had done something silly called book buddies, but I guess not

@TildalWave hahaha

anyway - sleep time now. Long day tomorrow - need to get the brain back into work mode after a very holiday-like weekend

night

@RoryAlsop I recognize two, maybe three, of those. 0_O

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