The DMZ

TildalWave

01:16

I've seen this with a full virtual keyboard on the screen with the instructions to move the mouse into the key from a specified direction and move it back out in a specified direction to "click" that key. The attacker only needs to become aware of this and add code to figure out the instruction text (next they put the instructions in an embedded video, shuffle the keyboard each time). The attacker will adapt to this next week. — Skaperen Jan 27 at 6:06

He anticipated it right, that's exactly what developers did... shuffle the keypad layout LOL

I had to update my answer, and I did try my best to be polite but also as strict as possible.

I don't get it what some banks are thinking? They are begging to be hacked! They don't wanna spend a few thousand bucks on a proper application security expert, but they're willing to risk their whole worth by reinventing the wheel? WT*?

D3C4FF

03:07

Sup all

Terry Chia

03:18

@AdamMcKissock Yeah, bruteforce is always a good possibility. My stupid assisgnment for my pen testing module is all about bruteforce, bruteforce, bruteforce. Talk about boring.

Stack Exchange

04:02

D3C4FF

@StackExchange BAH randall.. That's just lazy! ><

D3C4FF

04:25

Aww yeah. Crack all NTLM hashes <=10 chars in 10 days...

GPU temps: 51,51,49,53

d(-__-)b

Rory McCune

07:34

@D3C4FF cool.. what character set?

Lucas Kauffman

Good morning ^^

@D3C4FF that's some pretty decent GPU temps

Terry Chia

07:51

@LucasKauffman Probably liquid-cooled.

CodesInChaos

08:19

0

Q: Do I absolutely have to encrypt the PayPal data if my site uses SSL encryption at all times?

My site has an SSL certificate, and I force https: upon entry, to avoid man-in-the-middle attacks. Since everything is encrypted by this, do I still need to use additional encryption to use PayPal Website Payments Standard? I am using ASP.NET and have been looking at the .NET library PayPal off...

TildalWave

09:45

@RoryAlsop Good advice there, I've left a comment what other tricks I know of ;)

16

A: Best way to make my ears pop?

While a full yawn is best, simulating the movement your jaw makes in a yawn is enough to pop your ears (and often simulating a yawn makes a real one happen anyway) If you have a cold, or if you let the pressure build up a lot it can be difficult to get the eustachian tubes to open, so in those i...

@RoryAlsop On a side note, it's also best to try and enjoy yourself when in loud concerts. Singing loudly will make sure the pressure doesn't build up in your Eustachian tubes and will prevent eardrum damage.

@RoryAlsop I guess that's why critics are all deaf? :)))

Lucas Kauffman

guys

anyone familiar here with VBA

I can't seem to find a decent page that explains how to do parameterized queries in access

Antony Vennard

10:00

@LucasKauffman Not me, sorry. I used to be, but I've made it a career ambition to never write another line of VBA :D

Rory McCune

@LucasKauffman dbforums.com/microsoft-access/… ?

Lucas Kauffman

@RoryMcCune yea I noticed that one, trying to figure out how it works

Rory McCune

@LucasKauffman if it's for a customer you could just change the recommendation to "get rid of Access" :)

Lucas Kauffman

@RoryMcCune hahaha, no it's for a findings database I'm building

I thought LAMP would be a bit of overkill so I decided to go with access :p

Rory McCune

@LucasKauffman Ruby on Rails, you know you want to :)

Lucas Kauffman

10:14

@RoryMcCune yes but then I'm back to how to prevent sql injection ;D

Rory McCune

a bit out of date but blog.scotsts.com/?p=525

Lucas Kauffman

if I had the time I'd learn ruby on rails

Rory McCune

@LucasKauffman well as long as you don't mis-use it and there's no more framework bugs you'll be fine :)

Lucas Kauffman

oooh you made this :o?

nice

Rory McCune

@LucasKauffman yeah I need to do an updated version, I knocked it up to interface with Dradis before Daniel had written his vulndb.

I've got a nicer one that I wrote with ActiveAdmin which takes a lot of the heavy lifting away. Planning to do the re-write as a holiday project if the weather is bad up in Shetland...

Lucas Kauffman

10:21

@RoryMcCune well ping me when you are doing it, if I can contribute writing some export plugins to generate an excel sheet with a layout per finding, I'd be glad to assist ^^

D3C4FF

10:46

@RoryMcCune ALL THE CHARS ~!@#$%^&*()_+`1234567890-={}|[]\:";'<>?,./QWERTYUIOPASDFGHJKLZXCVBNMqwertyuiopasdfghjkklzxcvbnm

@TerryChia Yep. Under teh water :D

Adam McKissock

11:07

@LucasKauffman Nope

Dont think that linked properly @LucasKauffman

Adnan

@LucasKauffman Can I ping you?

Adam McKissock

@Adnan Naw :P

Terry Chia

@Adnan Ping the crap out of him!

Adnan

@TerryChia With a cactus?

Please say yes please say yes!

Thomas Pornin

11:24

@TildalWave These virtual keyboards are not meant to prevent attacks, but to convey to the user the message that the bank is "doing something" against attacks. It is about building trust and confidence. By definition, trust is the life force of a bank. A bank can exist at all only as long as people believe that it will give them back their money in its entirety, should they ask for it.

Terry Chia

@Adnan How will you ping him with a cactus exactly?

Adnan

Feb 21 at 14:10, by Adnan

In the ass

@ThomasPornin The "Cryptohtaphy I" class has started today. Dan Boneh is really amazing, he has a special way to plant the idea in the student's head. At least that's what I felt.

@ThomasPornin He started strongly. In the first week he gave us examples of attacks on stream ciphers and the one-time pad.

He also introduced us to the concept of semantic security.

@ThomasPornin I don't know, I'm just too excited and wanted to tell someone.

Lucas Kauffman

11:47

@AdamMcKissock linked what?

@Adnan you can send me all the ICMP requests you want <3

Adam McKissock

@LucasKauffman I was replying you one of your posts earlier

TildalWave

@ThomasPornin Yeah, that's a valid point but this throwing sand in consumers' eyes gets me rather mad. I wanted to make sure it reads like that, I'm sure I'm not the only one that has problems with that. There are better ways, if they're prepared to invest a bit in each of their customers, such as hardware security token generators (dunno their name, those 2FA ... hmmm.... calculators?). Playing with JavaScript is just plain lame.

Terry Chia

@TildalWave "Tokens" would be a good name for them.

TildalWave

@TerryChia The device itself? B'cos they give a token based on some common method for 2-form authentication that changes in time, and/or with use. But I'm not a native English speaker, maybe simple "token" does it? If I try to understand the word from an end-user perspective, I would assume naming it simply a token could create some confusion?

Ha never mind... found it

Security token

A security token (or sometimes a hardware token, authentication token, USB token, cryptographic token, software token, virtual token, or key fob) may be a physical device that an authorized user of computer services is given to ease authentication. The term may also refer to software tokens. Security tokens are used to prove one's identity electronically (as in the case of a customer trying to access their bank account). The token is used in addition to or in place of a password to prove that the customer is who they claim to be. The token acts like an electronic key to access something...

Anyway, these probably cost in the vicinity of $10 a piece when ordered in bulk. Frack, even the cheapest Romanian banks use them, so they can't be expensive. That cost covers itself when you consider how much it costs to constantly develop lame workarounds.

OK, enough with this, it gives me headaches LOL. Talking about headaches,...

0

Q: Techniques to prevent eye pressure buildup and bleeding through eyes when snorkeling and scuba diving?

I know of techniques to prevent and relieve ear pressure buildup (or more precisely, ways to equalize Eustachian tube pressure with the outside pressure). But how about techniques to relieve or even better - to prevent - pressure behind my eyes building up? I've been bleeding through my eyes (n...

diving

Any experienced divers here? :))

Terry Chia

12:05

@TildalWave Some users might dislike having to carry around something just to access their bank accounts though.

lynks

@TerryChia I got into a discussion about this at a conference last week. I was of the opinion that using a phone as a 2nd-factor was broken, and much weaker than using a key-fob token. phones have malware too, and all it takes is the malware on your machine to be in cahoots with the malware on your phone...

Scott Pack

cahoots

2

Terry Chia

@lynks I agree it isn't the best solution. It isn't me you have to convince though.

lynks

@ScottPack www.google.com/search?q=cahoots

TildalWave

@TerryChia Like @ThomasPornin said in his post, it's an arms race. End users should realize that, and I can see how a smart play by another bank could cause a sudden migration of the first bank's clients to the other, better equipped for the impending dangers.

lynks

12:13

@TerryChia I actually got up on the mic to make this point, as the guy was talking about how great 2-factor auth was and that our mobile phones were perfect, and that google was god for offering it for free etc etc. I just stood up and was like...but what about zeus? it already breaks all of this. he floundered and didn't seem to agree.

TildalWave

@lynks what were his arguments for disagreeing with you? or he just swept away with it for the sake of integrity?

lynks

@TildalWave the latter i think. he was promoting his own company which had something to do with 2FA.

i think this is the difference between the research world in which if something is broken a little bit, it is broken. and the industry where if something is broken a little bit, it still makes money!

4

TildalWave

12:32

So we end up with researches trying to educate end-users, risking being seen as fear mongers in the eyes of the general public, and the industry being seen as a solution provider, the good guys and making the most dough out of it, ending up being too influential and intentionally keeping this gap between the two extremes as wide as they can. Nice!

Terry Chia

@lynks Wait, if his company is promoting their own 2FA solution, why was he worshiping Google for providing it for free?

lynks

@TerryChia I think he was trying to be even-handed. it was a tech conference after all, just pluggin his own business wouldnt have gone down so well

TildalWave

12:53

Has anyone seen before " 3gpp-gba UNTRUSTED/1.0" in user-agent string in their logs before? I can't find its meaning, is that a new default UA string for custom Chromium builds, or something like that? The log entry is from a hosted domain and was marked as an stealth crawler down my end, and the same IP used other UAS before, so I also marked it as "impersonator".

Adnan

@LucasKauffman Awwwh! :D

Xander

13:42

@LucasKauffman It's been years since I worked with Access, but I seem to recall that when using the ODBC driver it supported positional parameters, where each parameter is a ?. That said, preventing SQL Injection in Access is easy, because Jet SQL is so simplistic. All you need to do is replace single quote marks with a pair of single quote marks, and you're done.

@LucasKauffman Parameterized query in VBA: stackoverflow.com/questions/3403586/…

Scott Pack

13:58

@lynks Oh, I know what it means. I was just commenting on use of the term. It's not something you hear all that often.

@lynks Just like merkin.

lynks

@ScottPack I can never remember who the native english speakers are in here :P

Rory McCune

@lynks well not @ScottPack for starters he's from the wrong side of the Atlantic :op give him half a chance and he'll be talking about aluminum and trying to suggest that pants are not underwear...

Scott Pack

@RoryMcCune You're one to talk.

Rory McCune

@ScottPack correct as a resident of the the country who has the definitive take on the language, I do feel the need to help straighen out some misunderstandings from the colonials ;op

Lucas Kauffman

I hate access

TildalWave

14:08

@RoryMcCune Oh and I thought that the best way to learn proper English is by avoiding the Blighty altogether :P :)))

@LucasKauffman access granted! :P

Adnan

@LucasKauffman I feel the same about it. Why do you hate it?

Rory McCune

@TildalWave oh no if you want to learn proper english I'd recommend Glasgow..

2

TildalWave

@RoryMcCune That's a numberwang!

Lucas Kauffman

@Adnan because it doesn't make any sense, I make a relation between two tables and it decides it cant save itself because the new value isnt an integer as expected. I just told it to fill the column with values from the other table so why the fuck would it expect an integer???

Adnan

@LucasKauffman I've always preferred rolling something with .net rather than writing making something with Access.

TildalWave

14:11

@RoryMcCune You know I really tried to understand Rab C. Nesbitt, but is neigh impossible. What local dialect is he supposed to speak in?

Rory McCune

@TildalWave Ahh yes rab C a fine proponent of the english language. He's from Govan (south west glagow), I've lived there, and it's fair to say that there are some.... characters.... there) and the accent is pretty close to reality..

TildalWave

@RoryMcCune You realize that knowing this now utterly changes the inner voice accent I'm reading your comments with? As if I'm not self-contradictory enough already :P

Terry Chia

@TildalWave Have you heard one of his videos?

TildalWave

@TerryChia I have actually and now that he mentions it, yup I recognize the accent, but his is really mild compared to Rab C.

Rory McCune

@TildalWave yeah I've moved about quite a bit so I've got a generic scottish accent, it gets more glaswegian if I go there..

TildalWave

14:21

@RoryMcCune I find that funny as I do the same. It only takes half an hour drive in any direction here to barely understand anyone, but give me 3 beers and I'll be joining them as if I was born there. I don't even wanna know how that's supposed to work, but it does. For example, how do I know how to properly use a certain word I've previously not even heard of, but only when slightly tipsy? Are we really that inhibited when sober?

Thomas Pornin

@TildalWave It is evolution.

Since Scots are drunk all the time, their language naturally evolved to using only words which can be pronounced when drunk.

7

It follows that if you are drunk yourself, your random eructations must be perfect Scot.

and the beauty of the thing is that it does not matter if what you say does not have the meaning you believe, because your interlocutors are drunk too !

Iszi

@ThomasPornin I didn't know boners had a nationality.

lynks

14:36

really thought i might have hit a reptrain with this one; security.stackexchange.com/questions/33161/… it seemed google-able

ahh well, there is always tomorrow

Adnan

@lynks @TerryChia is our new reptrain oracle. You should ask him.

TildalWave

@ThomasPornin Dunno while it's amusing to consider it as such, I didn't mean only when drunk. Say a beer of two would do it, and yes I'm still able to comprehend most or the world around me with two or three tankards of beer downed. I just always got a feeling my slightly tipsy me thinks of my sober me as a bit of a c***.

Terry Chia

@lynks Too many technical terms in that. It needs to be idiot-proof to be a rep train.

It's one of the questions that would give a notable question badge after a few months though.

lynks

@TerryChia the title looked like a copy-paste from a log file, and suhosin is everywhere so i thought it might come up a fair bit :P

Terry Chia

@lynks Not immediately!

lynks

14:44

@TerryChia I'm impatient for my close votes :P

TildalWave

@lynks "do not use the NULL byte as a string terminator" use "null-terminated string" instead if you wanna be google friendly ;)

Terry Chia

@lynks Be patient my young padawan.

TildalWave

oh and a wiki link on it :) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Null-terminated_string

lynks

@TildalWave haha ok

TildalWave

@lynks also add some tags on the question, it's only tagged with php now

lynks

14:47

@TildalWave you should write a book 'StackExchange RepTrain Guide'

TildalWave

@lynks Yup that should most definitely be me! :)

lynks

just append 'md5 password hack hacker pwn youtube facebook' to the end of the answer for moar google traffic :P

Terry Chia

@lynks Just rip off the cover of any SEO book and replace it with your title.

lynks

@TerryChia heh yeah

lynks

15:22

@ThomasPornin this was such an old question, i just never felt it got answered. your answer pretty much lines up with what i have learnt since - 'deal with it, there is no magic bullet in memory corruption exploits' so thanks for confirming that for me :)

Thomas Pornin

@lynks As I often say, a "magic bullet" is an ideal solution only if you are the kind of physician who cures patients by shooting them.

lynks

Adnan

15:58

@lynks I'd include something like str_replace(chr(0), '', $string); since the OP has used the php tag and asked for a way to fix it

Or avoid it. I think he means some protection in the code itself, I'm not sure.

lynks

16:14

@Adnan rgr, i left that out seeing as suhosin is stripping out the variable completely anyway

lynks

16:26

@Adnan if you feel it needs clarification, feel free to add an edit :)

Adnan

@lynks Hopefully that's alright

lynks

@Adnan groovy :)

lynks

16:47

its a red letter day, i just deleted my facebok account est. 2005 D:

Adnan

@lynks Deleted?

Or deactivated?

lynks

@Adnan queued for deletion (14 days)

Adnan

@lynks Then welcome!

I have done the same as well

3 weeks ago

(before it was cool)

lynks

@Adnan yayy, what do we do now?

go outside?

Adnan

@lynks Luckily, that has never been a problem for me. My main issue was with my slowly declining interest in what/how others are doing

@lynks Now we just work, try to finish our thesis, take care of our loved ones, and take a couple of Coursera courses.

lynks

16:52

@Adnan sounds good. onward.

did you make sure to arrange alternative login methods for any facebook-login powered sites? such as stack exchange?

Terry Chia

@lynks I heard G+ is hip.

Adnan

@lynks I never used "Connect with Facebook" or "Login with Facebook".

Thomas Pornin

@Adnan There is a new anti-facebook fashion ?

Adnan

@ThomasPornin Not at all, I was just making a little hipster joke.

lynks

@TerryChia google already know far too much about me :(

Adnan

16:56

@ThomasPornin I just started losing interest in other people's activities. I'm now more focused on enjoying my own.

It's probably just one of those phases, I don't know.

Thomas Pornin

@Adnan First step towards enlightenment

One of the teachings from Buddha is that oneself does not really exist

Enlightenment is basically realizing it, which allows for the termination of the illusion which maintains existence.

Thus allowing to "exit the game".

This also implies that everybody else is an illusion as well

(whatever these poor buggers may think about it)

When you do the enlightenment by beginning with denying the existence of other people, you are applying so-called "egoism" (a philosophical doctrine which was fashionable in the 18th century)

Adnan

@ThomasPornin I think I've never thought of enlightenment itself as a goal. I just want a slightly more peaceful rhythm of life. If that happened to be parallel with enlightenment, I'm happy with that as well.

lynks

@Adnan you sound enlightened.

Adnan

@ThomasPornin But also I'm not denying others' existence. I'm just expressing disinterest in what they're doing, especially at the trivial level Facebook facilitates ("oh look at my cat").

@lynks Deep down, we all are.

lynks

@Adnan what cat!? show us the catttt!

Adnan

17:09

@lynks Look deep in your soul, you'll find the cat. The cat has always been you, and you've always been the cat, for you and the cat are one.

Lucas Kauffman

I added a new community promo: meta.security.stackexchange.com/questions/1085/…

Iszi

@LucasKauffman Thanks. Deleted my old one.

Does anyone know why they decided to re-brand, anyway?

Adnan

17:26

@Iszi Since they've built it from the ground up, I think it makes sense to give it a new name.

Thomas Pornin

@Adnan If I am at one with the cat, why do I have to go to work while the cat spends the day sleeping on the couch, bathing in the Sun rays ?

lynks

@LucasKauffman looks good, sounds like they are fixing all the things that made me stay away from backtrack.

lynks

17:49

oh hey did anybody watch the Malaysian F1 yesterday?

Xander

18:22

@lynks No!! Have it on the DVR and waiting for my wife to come home from her trip so we can watch it together.

Rory McCune

@Xander Oh man so you didn't see when.......

just kidding, I wouldn't put up spoilers :)

Xander

@RoryMcCune LOL! No...I haven't seen it yet. Whatever it was. :-) I'm actually OK with spoilers. It's more fun to not know what happens of course, but with my past travel schedule, we've gotten behind so often that they've been a frequent enough occurrence that I've come to terms with them. :-)

Rory McCune

heh I didnt' watch it all but read the blow-by-blow on the BBC and the subsequent stories, it was quite an "action packed" one..

Adnan

@ThomasPornin Because nothing can be complete by itself. Evil and good, male and female, you and the cat, yin and yang, each completes the other. While the cat is the laziness, indifference, you are the hard work and consciousness.

@ThomasPornin That was a close one. You've almost exposed me for the phony I am.

Xander

@RoryMcCune Ok yeah? interesting. How did the tires stand up, compared to Aus? //cc @lynks

Rory McCune

18:38

@Xander IIRC not too badly, although could be that the other drama overshadowed any tyre issues..

Xander

@RoryMcCune Gotcha. You've got my curiosity up. I guess i need to go read about it, and be content to watch it as a replay.

@RoryMcCune Ok, read it. Up to speed now. :-)

Lucas Kauffman

19:50

I'm going to try out that Eurotruck simulator

this.josh

@lynks Facebook is never deleted, it just becomes non-public

TildalWave

@LucasKauffman hehe tell us how you find it... btw, since you're from BE, you need to see this video then:

►

Adnan

@this.josh Incorrect. facebook.com/help/224562897555674 and facebook.com/about/privacy/your-info

@this.josh After a maximum of 90 days Facebook deletes all of your data, even from the backups.

this.josh

@Adnan They have continually failed to live up to that promise.

Thomas Pornin

@Adnan At least so they claim.

Iszi

20:00

@Adnan Are we completely ignoring the adage, "The Internet is forever."?

this.josh

Some is even 'anonymized' into test databases. Although that information is usually trivially de-anonymized.

Adnan

@ThomasPornin Exactly. Realistically that's all we have

Guys guys guys.. that's a very different discussion. Following your logic we can assume that Google employees start their day by reading some of our emails, or that PayPal secretly sell our CC numbers to some Russian mafia.

@Iszi The information mirrored by other websites, yes, they'll stay there forever. Facebook says they'll delete my data. Other than my natural paranoia, I have no reason to believe otherwise.

We live by the companies' claims. StackExchange claims they hash our passwords. For all we know, they're storing them in plaintext and some dev have fun reading our insecure email accounts if we happen to have the same password used there.

this.josh

No, there are court cases involving Facebooks failure to delete all data.

Iszi

@Adnan The logic doesn't assume, as your statements would imply, that all Google or PayPal employees do this. But it does bear an acknowledgement of the fact that they can, and some probably do.

To live under the assumption that any company will live up to all of its promises, let alone that all of its employees will, is ridiculously naive.

Certainly, in many cases, it can be said that their word is all we have. But that does not mean that we should allow ourselves to rely solely upon that when we are seriously concerned about our security and privacy.

Adnan

@Iszi Sigh! Yes, yes. That's exactly what I meant. I meant to say that all the companies live up to all of their promises.

Iszi

20:15

The safest assumption to proceed under is that all information posted to Facebook will remain available to someone, of indeterminate identity or affiliation, even after Facebook has claimed to delete it.

Adnan

Yes, you're correct.

Lucas Kauffman

@TildalWave It's funny for half an hour

then you get bored

my manager plays it a lot

he says it helps him unstress

Adnan

@Iszi You seem to assume that I live in a pinky world where everybody is honest. I wouldn't have an account here if I believed that.

The whole thing is simple. You have your data with a company, they say they deleted it. Whether you believe it or not, in the end you'll have to accept it.

You cannot prove otherwise.

Yes, I don't share my SSN and CC numbers on Facebook

Yes, I don't even send anything in a private message on Facebook that I wouldn't want anyone to know.

Lucas Kauffman

@Adnan ah you need to give me your CC number for age verification k?

Adnan

In the end, they know where I am, who I am, what I like.

Now I could use a fake name, fake email, use Tor. But why?

Damn it! I'm really angry now! So much for the enlightenment I was feeling this afternoon

@LucasKauffman 5313 0663 6955 3210

@Iszi I know you were just trying to help and provide information. Sorry for the outburst.

@LucasKauffman Also want the verification number?

Antony Vennard

20:28

My usual answer to "the government might snoop on me individually and know all my secrets" is "they can't manage to build a nationwide patient database for our health service on time and on budget, a storage system where people willingly give their info..."

Lucas Kauffman

@Adnan yes pls

this.josh

@AntonyVennard Can they even bill people correctly?

Adnan

@LucasKauffman 868

this.josh

@Adnan I'ts me I'm bad karma.

Antony Vennard

@this.josh Well, funny you should mention that. They do seem to have problems collecting Tax, too.

Adnan

20:31

@this.josh It's all of us. We all bring good karma and bad karma. That's how the universe finds its balance.

this.josh

@AntonyVennard Unfortunatly it is not funny.

Antony Vennard

@this.josh Not when it goes wrong, no. I usually keep a pretty close eye on what I've paid, tax-wise, so I don't get any nasty surprises like "hey, we undertaxed you by £1k last year, please write us a cheque"

this.josh

I am the inperfection at the pivot point of the balance.

Rory Alsop

@AntonyVennard but if you tell them they overtaxed you, it is really difficult getting the money back from them...

Antony Vennard

@RoryAlsop Yes. You get it about two years later, usually.

Without interest.

this.josh

20:37

At least your are not dead when they attempt the refund.

Rory Alsop

but you're bu66ered if you try and do the same

Antony Vennard

@this.josh I take it you are having tax problems with your respective government, then?

Rory McCune

@AntonyVennard yeah I had a run-in with HMRC and when it's them that's owed money they want it back + interest + a fine with a nice threat that if you argue with them the fine goes up

they're not my favourite people

2

this.josh

No. Having tax problems calls attention to one's self. I do not like attention, but I do know how goverment agencies work: yypically with much reluctance.

Rory McCune

@RoryAlsop How did day one go?

this.josh

20:41

Did anyone analyze the traffic on Thomas's bounty?

Adnan

@this.josh I think he did

Antony Vennard

@this.josh Ah okay. Yes, they do. Usually in a manner approaching glacial.

Rory Alsop

@RoryMcCune Rather well. I spoke with the chap who will be my line manager (ex CISO from Morgan Stanley) and his was a nightmare - will tell you about that over a beer sometime :-)

Lots of scope for improvement

good team scope

quite exciting, really

Rory McCune

w00 sounds coolio :)

this.josh

@thomas Did you analyze the traffic on your bounty?

TildalWave

20:44

@Adnan FYI that CC number isn't valid :P

Rory Alsop

@TildalWave I know a few divers - will ask for you

Adnan

@TildalWave How about this 4127 6688 1555 4583

TildalWave

@RoryAlsop Cheers! I'd appreciate that :)

@Adnan valid

Adnan

@TildalWave Thanks to Hans Luhn

Thomas Pornin

@this.josh My answer and @AviD's answer got 6 upvotes each; @Jeff's answer got one upvote and one downvote. Not exactly a rush. I believe most people who are after bounties have already seen that question, since that's the one with the highest votes.

TildalWave

20:49

@Adnan looks like Visa Electron to me :P

Rory McCune

@Adnan if you're ever short of a couple.. getcreditcardnumbers.com

this.josh

Wow. Much worse than I thought. It would seem that bounties are ineffective.

Adnan

@RoryMcCune Neat!

Rory McCune

@Adnan yeah is handy on web app. tests to get further down the process before you get to the online referral..

TildalWave

In elections, is it OK to just select 2 ?

Rory Alsop

20:54

@TildalWave yes

so we have photography (I see AJ is running), Skeptics, Travel elections all on now. Any others?

TildalWave

@RoryAlsop Good then that's done ;)

Rory Alsop

I'm standing for Travel mod...

TildalWave

@RoryAlsop Oh there are others? lol I was just referring to the travel one

ok then I'm not yet done...

Adnan

@RoryAlsop Just a note, your answers there are great!

Rory Alsop

@Adnan Cheers - they are limited, as I haven't been to anywhere the number of places Halabi, Mark Mayo and others have gone to, but the ones I know about I try and answer fully :-)

@TildalWave heh - I'd be happy if the existing mods all got back in, however Mark didn't stand, so one more will - and I'm bottom of the general scores pile, so I'm not holding out too much hope.

Adnan

21:03

Anybody knows why the SI unit for mass is Kilogram and not gram? Since all other SI units don't have a prefix.

TildalWave

@RoryAlsop dunno I've seen on last few elections peeps seem to be quite picky and actually look at nominee profiles, which I think is good for your nomination. Some also don't have all that well written proposals and were questioned about that during the nomination period. I think you have good chances

Adnan

I think @ThomasPornin should know this.

TildalWave

Prolly for being defined as the weight of some metal piece stored somewhere in France?

Or as it's the weight of 1l of water?

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Xander

@this.josh I would absolutely agree that bounties are ineffective. At best, you're going to get bounty hunters, rather than qualified answers.

this.josh

Are any real skeptics running?

Adnan

21:08

@TildalWave That is indeed how the kilogram is defined

@TildalWave and this is how it was first defined

But still, that doesn't explain why they went with the Kilo and not the gram

I think I'll ask about it at Physics.SE

Rory Alsop

@Adnan do it, and share the link here

TildalWave

@Adnan Yes, so @ThomasPornin can get some rep for the answer and then test the laws of physics.se with his bounties :)))

Gilles

Kilogram

The kilogram or kilogramme (SI symbol: kg), is the base unit of mass in the International System of Units and is defined as being equal to the mass of the International Prototype of the Kilogram (IPK). The avoirdupois (or international) pound, used in both the Imperial system and U.S. customary units, is defined as exactly , making one kilogram approximately equal to 2.2046 avoirdupois pounds. The gram was originally defined in 1795 as the mass of one cubic centimeter of water at 4°C, making the kilogram equal to the mass of one liter of water. The prototype kilogram, manufactured in 1...

Adnan

@Gilles Since you linked to it I assume you know exactly where it it mentions the answer to my question

TildalWave

Basically, God forbid anything happens to France, otherwise we'd have to go back to using imperial units!

2

Adnan

21:19

@Gilles I cannot see anywhere anything about why the a 1000 grams are used an SI unit and not a gram.

Rory Alsop

@Tildal - had a response back from one of my diving friends: "That sounds awful, never heard of bleeding eyes during a dive. My first thought would be 'squeeze' where the compression of the gas in the air space within the mask causes it to suck onto the face - this is generally relieved by exhaling through the nose a little to equalise the pressure... I definitely think a doctor with hyperbaric experience is the way forward there!"

Adnan

If, for some reason, my eyes or my brain aren't operating correctly, please help me find it.

Gilles

@Adnan indeed, it doesn't really cover that

the kilogram became formalized as the base unit in the MKS system

but that never had a written standard

and there was a history of using the kilogram as a base unit in part because of the kg prototype

TildalWave

@RoryAlsop hmmm that sounds a lot scarier than I hoped it would. I've actually found out that Bill Bailey had a similar experience but blamed it on way too tight mask. divernet.com/other_diving_topics/general_diving/1592931/…

@RoryAlsop I was hoping it could be that simple, but now I just don't know... I'll try to get a hold of some friend of mine working in the marina area in Split, Croatia. He should at least have some contacts he could ask since they have a hyperbaric unit and experts there.

Grave (unit)

A grave is a metallic reference standard of one thousand grams that was used for a few years until it was replaced by the kilogram standard in 1799. The modern kilogram has its origins in the pre-French Revolution days of France. Louis XVI created a Consultative Commission for Units to devise a new decimal-based system of measurement. This royal commission, which included such aristocrats as Antoine Lavoisier, founded the very beginnings of the “metric system”, which later evolved into the contemporary International System of Units (SI). On 7 April 1795, the “gramme”, upon which the kilo...

Adnan

21:35

@TildalWave Nice!

'The name of the original, defined unit of mass, “gramme”, which was too small to serve as a practical realisation, was adopted and the new prefix “kilo” was appended to it to form the name “kilogramme”. Consequently, the kilogram is the only SI base unit that has an SI prefix as part of its unit name.'

TildalWave

@RoryAlsop Oh, and thanks for asking around, really appreciate it!!

Rory Alsop

22:13

If anyone else comes back with other info I'll pass it on.

Gilles

oh, Mark isn't running? Too busy doing the actual thing?

TildalWave

@RoryAlsop Cheers! I thought of another person that I could possibly ask, some friend of my father, a doctor and a diver. It'll have to wait till tomorrow though. By the way, where do you think I should "move" that question? It kinda has some trademarks of a few SE websites, but not an exact match for any of them.

Scott Pack

23:33

@RoryAlsop Personally I've always found the best way to adjust to changes in air pressure is to flex whatever thing that causes those tubes to open.

Well. This is probably slightly less than ideal. I just triggered a few kernel crashes by running a Nessus scan with safe checks enabled.

Rory Alsop

23:59

oh, @rorym - meant to congratulate you on getting your talk on Track 1 at B-Sides

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