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00:00 - 18:0018:00 - 00:00

00:20
You can also generate large packets with ping.
@JeffFerland Also, tcpreplay is pretty epic. I use it frequently in the lab for running various and sundry tests against snort sensors.
/me is bored
Well sure, it's wicked late.
@ScottPack Aye, it is indeed. Cant sleep.
Clowns will eat you, eh?
@ScottPack Eh?
@ScottPack lol
@ScottPack hmm, that seems like me near the end of a 3 day project that was estimated at 2 weeks.
@AviD Do you mean to say that you finished a project after 3 days but it was supposed to take 3 weeks?
Because I would think it would be more like this
@ScottPack no, I mean I said it should take 2 weeks, but them bosses forced it into 3 days.
Oh, nevermind.
That seems way worse.
00:39
My estimates are correct. Project constraints are not always constrained by reality.
No. Doubt.
My favorite part is when the project manager starts whining about how, "I don't care if the work doesn't meet regulatory compliance. You need to just approve it because otherwise my estimates aren't going to work out."
@ScottPack is that a remake of Monty Python and the Holy Grail?
@Gilles Look at the bones!
Aaaaaaaaargh
Anyone have a link handy to that post that had the big to-do about the new close as dupe policy?
Nevermind, found it.
01:41
23
Q: Changes to "close as duplicate" (part deux)

David FullertonI feel like we got off on the wrong foot. Due to me being an idiot miscommunication, a partial change snuck out early, and even though we announced it we didn't really explain why we made the change. So let me just start over... We've made some changes to Close as Duplicate. First, some back...

@ScottPack ^
I heard something about that on ze podcast.
Programmers town hall chat in 10 minutes
Science Fiction and Fantasy town hall chat just after that
02:19
Sounds boring.
 
1 hour later…
03:23
If there's one phrase I hate more than anything else on the internet, it's "trigger warning".
it's the most condescending, pointless thing ever
"trigger warning: this article contains vague references to rape"
Grats, you morons, you've just created a more blatant PTSD trigger than the article contained anyway.
> Guys, this is not a dick-sucking contest.

If you want to parse PE binaries, go right ahead.

If Red Hat wants to deep-throat Microsoft, that's *your* issue. That
has nothing what-so-ever to do with the kernel I maintain. It's
trivial for you guys to have a signing machine that parses the PE
binary, verifies the signatures, and signs the resulting keys with
your own key. You already wrote the code, for chissake, it's in that
f*cking pull request.
Linus strikes again: lkml.org/lkml/2013/2/21/228
He has a way with words.
03:44
Right, I need a router recommendation. Something compatible with dd-wrt. :)
gimme a minute. heading upstairs and I'll grab my dd-wrt router and tell you the manufacturer / product number
@Polynomial Cool. :)
Buffalo AirStation WHR-G300N
right, 4am, bedtime
@Polynomial nights! :)
 
1 hour later…
 
2 hours later…
07:00
Evening @TerryChia
@LucasKauffman hey, but it's 3 in the afternoon here. ;)
07:55
@TerryChia when I polled everyone here not too long ago, the consensus was Linksys E2500.
so far I only loaded up dd-wrt - went very smoothly - but havent really given it a real testing yet.
on the other hand, after I'd ordered it, I found a review that claims its range is a bit on the short side, but as I said I havent really tested that yet.
 
2 hours later…
09:44
@Polynomial yeah - the whole violet blue thing just makes me go ... Eh?
hiya
Hey @M'vy
10:26
You know it's not a password someone at your organisation set several years ago when you can't crack it with hashcat bruteforcing every passphrase upto 6 chars :-p
back from prague
returned home to a text from one of our devs: burgled last night, laptop stolen, please revoke all my keys
@lynks owch, how long have the compromised keys been out there?
also, if at all possible, check audit logs etc. to see if the keys have been used since the laptop was stolen.
@Tinned_Tuna about 48 hours, I still have to check with him whether they were passphrase-encrypted and/or on an encrypted disk.
also, all keys?
@Tinned_Tuna yeah im trying to figure out where he thinks he has more than one...
10:46
@lynks not just that, but what about his work desktop vs. his laptop? surely he didn't put his desktop keys onto his laptop?
@Tinned_Tuna I think it's because we forwarded a socket from the server onto his laptop so that he could do some 'local' testing. i seem to remember creating an account just for that. so he probably had a normal dev key plus that one.
11:05
@lynks fair enough ?
@Tinned_Tuna yeah it was something we hacked together for some reason that everyone has since forgotten.
Who's in London on Thursday
@RoryAlsop neat! :-D
@RoryAlsop I'm unfortunately not in London, but that looks awesome
@RoryAlsop says its tomorrow :( (thursday)
erm..... I knew that
:-/
ninja edit
11:10
@RoryAlsop it's ok, I know that all the clocks in your house merely show unix epoch timestamps. human dates are confusing
having a whirl with hashcat for a bit is fun :-p
@Tinned_Tuna yeah if i had the money id build a gpu cluster
@lynks, I'm tempted to spend £300 on rPis and give it a go
@Tinned_Tuna have we decided that rPi is more cash-efficient than GPUs?
but I don't have enough experience in making clusters
@lynks no, I'm just interested as a concept.
they're almost certainly not
11:23
@Tinned_Tuna yeah, a brief google yields that you're better off buying some expensive GPUs
and then you can go with sexy water cooling and lighting kits..drool...digitalstormonline.com/flashgallery/SILVER06.jpg
or just go mental:
@lynks That's crazy cool! I'm sure the blue lights make it faster too!
11:44
@GarrettFogerlie much faster
@RoryAlsop Submitted the blog post for review. Almost a straight copy-paste from my blog. ;)
@GarrettFogerlie I think red lights are better.
@TerryChia will review just now
@Tinned_Tuna all my stuff glows green, including my ducky channel epic keyboard of win
@lynks Blah that reminds me. I need to add a mechanical keyboard to my shopping list.
@TerryChia But the red are hotter...
11:57
@TerryChia Have added a couple of links, some minor formatting, added a link to your blog and added the standard QoTW footer. I like it. Currently scheduled for Friday midday (GMT)
@RoryAlsop Cool. :)
 
2 hours later…
13:50
That is a beautiful cable job. It deserves to be on /r/cableporn
@ScottPack wow - I googled that, expecting it not to exist. But it does...
Reddit baby.
@ScottPack Hmm. Would have expected that to be about porn found on cable.
@TerryChia You mean like HBO or Cinemax?
@ScottPack Yeah. ;)
13:56
Speaking of HBO. It's just 4.5 weeks until Game of Thrones comes back on.
Woo sweet.
@ScottPack A good story, decent action and tons of boobies!
@LucasKauffman Season 2 is softcore porn.
@LucasKauffman I made the mistake of reading the books already. Now I'll just have to wait another 20 years while he releases one every 5 or 6.
@LucasKauffman I'm really curious why your answer got 6 votes while mine only managed 2.
6
A: Is a TOR router really safer than a proxy?

Lucas Kauffman Nope, the exit node can only decrypt the message and make the request, but he is not aware of where the original host is located, the only node that knows where the person is located is the second node. This is due to the layered encryption Tor uses. Every node only knows the next and previous h...

Nothing wrong with either answer, but I'm still left wondering.
14:01
Because people like him better?
hides
@AdamMcKissock You hurt my feelings. :(
heh
@ScottPack It's probably going to stand higher, I upvoted yours as well
hugs @TerryChia
Ahh, The Bear just wrote an answer to it.
@ScottPack I'm probably gonna start on the books soon once I finish up this other series.
@TerryChia Which?
14:04
@TerryChia Once the bear posts an answer, it will probably mean I will get outvoted too :<
ALL HAIL THE BEAR
2
offers fresh salmon
@ScottPack The Power of Five series by Anthony Horowitz. Not really great, but I figured since I got through the first book I might as well read the other four.
@TerryChia That happened to me with Wheel of Time. I started reading it in 1994. The 13th and final book was just released.
@ScottPack I was 3 years old in 1994
@AdamMcKissock I was just born.
ಠ_ಠ
14:13
Scottpack was already past his best part of life in 1993
@LucasKauffman That would make him what, 45?
And that's quite far enough you lot! (I had already graduated and had a job as a drayman)
what the hell is a drayman?
one wot delivers beer
a good temp job
@AdamMcKissock You never played Wing Commander 1 ? (The mission about the Watson disease outbreak.)
14:15
@RoryAlsop hahaha. you are a bit sensitive don't you think? we haven't started openly mocking your age yet today/tonight.
just getting in there early!
@TerryChia But since he brought it up...
@RoryAlsop is the Sec.SE Jack Daniel.
4
LOL
without the epic beard
There's still time.
14:17
@ScottPack true
@ScottPack Depends, one foot in the grave and all...
@RoryAlsop I rather drink beer than deliver it :p
@AdamMcKissock Hey, that's going a bit far. He's just about to start his retirement.
@TerryChia I thought the retirement age was 75? Didn't that pass a while ago?
hides
14:57
@lynks yea, but I'd like to see a proof of concept, I think it's @TerryChia 's research project.
and as the rPis become more powerful, they might be useful, especially for "slow" hashes, e.g. scrypt or bcrypt.
multiple cores and hundreds of megs of ram, or a few gigs would make them a very cost-efficient way of cracking scrypt hashed passwords.
15:23
@Tinned_Tuna I'm not sure if I can do it anytime soon; still have other projects that need working on. I'm interested in trying it eventually though.
0
Q: LastPass One Time Recovery Passwords--How?

JohnThe LastPass password manager stores One Time Recovery Passwords locally in each browser you use the plugin with: http://helpdesk.lastpass.com/account-recovery/ My question is, how can you have more than one password? I thought LastPass derived the encryption key from your master password usin...

Hmm pretty interesting question.
@TerryChia that's one way to describe going to work in a bank anyway....
@RoryMcCune I would think a bank would seem tame in comparison with his experiences in the Big Four.
@TerryChia possibly although this is RBS...
15:40
@RoryMcCune Talk about out of the fire into the frying pan eh?
@TerryChia I have a pay-day soon, I might splash on £50 worth of rPis and see if I can get them talking nice in for a cracker.
might
@Tinned_Tuna Heh. I have access to my school's sizable collection of rPis. So it's mostly a if I have time issue.
If you can write the code up I might be able to benchmark them in a larger array.
@TerryChia unlikely, I've not had much experience at hand-developing performance-critical distributed systems, unfortunately. It is a scary domain.
@Tinned_Tuna if you can max out the CPU and the GPU, you're doing just fine.
@lynks access the gpu on an rPi? I thought it was all proprietary and the interface was a massive bag of dicks?
@lynks (This is from rumor, not research!)
15:51
@Tinned_Tuna standby ill try to find what i was reading
@Tinned_Tuna ahh you're right. I was reading people's estimations of how well it could be used for cracking. Part of the conversation was how opaque the GPU API is.
@lynks it is exceptionally bad times
@lynks but, for scrypt, the GPU is largely irrelevant, right?
I wonder if I should spring for a dual band router considering my house only has 1 device (my usb wireless adapter meant for pen testing use) supports the 5GHz band...
@Tinned_Tuna the bear is the one to ask about that, I don't know to what degree an algorithm can mitigate GPU usage.
@Tinned_Tuna That's what scrypt is designed for. Arguably bcrypt is already good at making GPU sluggish.
@lynks basically, scrypt mandates the use of a configurable amount of RAM
16:01
scrypt is more designed to beat FPGA (which now embed a lot of small RAM blocks)
(or, expensive recomputation every time you want something out of RAM)
@ThomasPornin I thought scrypt was effective against GPUs as well?
@Tinned_Tuna Yeah, but so is bcrypt.
Scrypt is meant to make the use of FPGA, which were effective against bcrypt, less effective.
@TerryChia I thought bcrypt wasn't designed to be "memory-hard" ?
@Tinned_Tuna Actually it was, but with the notion of "memory" which was used in 1999.
@ThomasPornin heh
16:03
@ThomasPornin as in, it was just using too little memory to be considered "memory-hard"? Or it wasn't configurable?
This is explicit in the article. They chose Blowfish as base because Blowfish key schedule intrinsically requires a 4 kB RAM block (which is altered a lot in the process).
(Note, I know far more about scrypt than I do bcrypt!)
Oh, @ThomasPornin. Do you consider scrypt mature enough to use in serious applications now? I remember one of your answers recommending to wait and see.
As opposed to something based on 3DES, which maps very well to hardware.
@TerryChia My rule of thumb is "5 years in the field", and scrypt is from 2009, so let's wait 2014.
@ThomasPornin Aye. The Bear has spoken.
16:05
In 1999, a custom ASIC with a lot of embedded 4 kB RAM blocks was pure fantasy. In 2013, this is an off-the-shelf FPGA.
@TerryChia well... scrypt uses Salsa20, and Salsa20 was one of the eStream winners...
@ThomasPornin I thought in the scrypt paper it defined memory-hardness as being able to use a configurable amount of memory, not just a fixed "It's big at the moment!" amount?
@Tinned_Tuna scrypt tries to sell itself as best as it can, but, ultimately, what matters is what the attacker can use as hardware right now.
@Tinned_Tuna Well, they didn't know that in 1999 did they?
Being configurable, scrypt could be adjusted later on through configuration rather than redesign, which is a good thing.
@ThomasPornin not entirely... If the passwords are leaked to the public, the attacker has a very long time to work on them, and if the breach isn't made public (i.e. the attackers try to crack it in secret, and the breach is undiscovered), then they have basically limitless time to attack the password
and of course, attacks only get better.
16:08
@Tinned_Tuna Salsa20 is a stream cipher, not a hash function, so its use in there is subject to a bit of wishful thinking.
@TerryChia no, they didn't have that exact definition, but what I'm getting at is that if you configure bcrypt correctly, can you scale the amount of memory needed by using configuration?
@Tinned_Tuna No, this is not tunable in the algorithm definition. Only the number of iterations.
@Tinned_Tuna No, that is the reason why scrypt is considered "better" than bcrypt.
@ThomasPornin I know that :-p, it's more that, if it's been used in the correct way, and you're confident about the properties of Salsa20, then you can gain some confidence in the design of scrypt
scrypt offers an extra tunable parameter, which is good (yeah ! an extra parameter to finely tune the algorithm !) and bad (dammit, the complexity of configuration has just been squared !)
16:10
The authentication was only necessary to know that the encryption was right, your idea is good. But I think that way if password change would have to re-encrypt the data. That would not be a way.   The link seems very interesting. Excuse me for my stupidity, but I do not understand from step 3. And the concept of "blocking" not clear to me. Thank you very much. — user60108 1 min ago
Hmm, what would be the most polite way of saying Don't fucking design an encryption program if you don't understand it?
@ThomasPornin there needs to be an "idiot's" wrapper around scrypt, that takes away the configuration options, and just takes a hardness parameter.
Hopefully, there'd be a "find my requisite hardness for this machine" program too
@TerryChia If you want to be diplomatic, say: "Trained cryptographers would not dare design their own encryption algorithm; when they must do it, they wait for dozens of their colleagues to give their opinion."
But you also have the option of not responding. Works well, too.
Yea, most abstract analyses of crypto algorithms (authenticated ones, at least) return either the decryption, or "bottom" if there was some form of error, be it a MAC error, or some other error (e.g. padding error)
well, they deal in those terms.
unfortunately, this doesn't model the real world fantastically well, as people love returning detailed error messages.
@Tinned_Tuna It's hard to even find a good implementation of the algorithm that looks trustworthy in some languages.
@Tinned_Tuna Detailed error messages are, usually, a good idea. I daily battle against a system for which every single failure is "error 50000", and that's not fun.
16:15
That's why I usually recommend bcrypt nowadays, most languages have nice mature libraries and wrappers for it.
@ThomasPornin At uni I was often told that Serpent should have become AES. That it was stronger in many ways than Rijndael (which became AES). I can't remember what precise reasons were given. Of course now there's so much water under the AES bridge that Rijndael can probably be said to be a safer choice. Any thoughts?
@ThomasPornin detailed error messages + bad design were basically the cause of the padding oracle attacks...
@Tinned_Tuna Detailed error messages are a good idea. Who should see those error messages are another matter altogether.
3
@TerryChia ah yes, to a private log file, you can say that the padding was wrong or what ever, but it depends on your threat model.
what if you've designed a system which for some bizarre reason an adversary can read the log file(s)
you've likely already lost at that point, but you know what I mean
@TerryChia basically, your adversary should only ever get one type of error back. Place your adversary where you like, depending on your paranoia level.
@Tinned_Tuna an old favourite from way back was an apache server that was able to read it's own access logs, which contained a page vulnerable to local file inclusion. So you send a GET request with some embedded php, which gets written to the access log. Then you include the access log for pwnage.
16:24
@lynks that's hillarious
@Tinned_Tuna yeah I rather liked it.
Anyways, time for home time
@lynks Serpent is slower.
Implementation of Serpent is less likely to be subject to cache timing attacks than usual implementations of Rijndael.
It still takes a rather specific and improbable scenario for cache timing attacks to apply.
Many people will blabber endlessly about what should have been vs what happened, on any conceivable subject. It does not make them right.
The industry could have lived with Serpent instead of Rijndael. The perceived relative slowness of Serpent might have made AES adoption slower, though.
Especially since AES-NI is rolling out, removing timing attacks and giving it great performance
@CodesInChaos Arguably, if Serpent had been chosen, it would have been implemented in hardware just as well.
16:34
@CodesInChaos I do love AES-NI, it opens all sorts of doors for encrypted memory with minimal overhead.
@ThomasPornin thanks for your input. I think I had an evangelical lecturer on this topic.
no idea how well suited the different primitives are for implementation using CPU instructions
for example keccak seems hardware friendly in some way, but it doesn't seem like a great choice for CPU instructions
Right bed. But I must point out how different this discussion is from the one we had yesterday about anal fisting.
2
Personally I feel more strongly about Blake or Skein vs. Keccak than about Rijndael vs. serpent
17:06
WARNING potentially massive timesink bombermine.com/#/play
A little overly vague, here?
0
Q: Possible ways to test security for Windows Phone 7 or iOS devices

user1170036I'm trying to test the security features of different types of OSs available, and I decided to narrow this down to the Windows Phone 7 and iOS operating systems. I will be testing both my Nokia 800 and iPod Touch 4 to see which one has the better features. The issue I have now is figuring out how...

in Mos Eisley, 14 mins ago, by Beofett
This question on Alien vs. Predator was migrated from avp.se... too funny!
should I register for the elder scrolls online beta? or am i just asking for another lifesink...
Heh. The single-player games alone are a bit of a lifesink. Don't even want to think what an MMO would be like.
17:24
how do i do superscript in an answer (for a numerical power)
@lynks I think you can use normal <sup>html tags</sup>
apparently, you can't
@Iszi I have no idea how to even start answering that question without my answer inherently being TL;DR. 'Has anyone here actually tested out embedded systems before?' well yes of course, don't we all? I agree it's 'overly vague' as you put it.
@lynks Well I have just tested it, it's working in answers but not in chat.
@Adnan You could head over to Math.SE and just hit 'edit' for any answer that has mathematical formulas in it. It might be same formatting for answers and comments for superscript, but I'm not sure you should test it... bah, beat me to it with a negative LOL
@Adnan thanks :)
17:34
@TildalWave You confused me, I'm easily confused.
@Adnan sorry about that (:shrugs)
X{-x} agrrrhhh doesn't take it here
@TildalWave I think that's only for tex.SE and Math.SE
right?
@Adnan Dunno really, I'm just trying to crack it open LOL... there should be a way :)
(I'm slightly annoyed by this *.SE, it makes the StackExchange websites sound Swedish)
Yuergin fuyergin
17:38
@Adnan And as a Fin you can't stand that?
@TildalWave Well we already figured it out, <sup></sup>
@Adnan Doesn't work for me in comments :O
@TildalWave Not a Finn, just live there.
Yup, it appears to work only in answers.
Chat's markdown is fairly anemic.
@ScottPack I think it's good enough for the purpose
17:43
does it have everyone's favourite html tag?
<marquee>woo</marquee>
shame
@lynks aaahh! High-school years :D
I'm trying to make this comment on this question
5
Q: How to Secure a Stream from DDoSers?

AnonI conduct a weekly live-stream using Google Hangouts that streams over YouTube. Recently, the stream has been attacked by DDoSers. In an attempt to thwart such attacks, I have tried to keep my IP address secret [by not running Skype] and have even tried entry-level firewalls. Are there any firew...

"How are they attempting to DDoS you? In fact, how did you know they are? You're streaming on Google Hangouts, so your IP is only disclosed to Google, right?"
Ideas? How wrong am I?
I think we need a bit more information to determine what sort of a scenario we're dealing with. There's two possible fronts that could be getting attacked here - his connection to Google, and Google's connection to the subscribers. And of course, there's always the possibility that Google or his ISP are just having some hiccups on there end. Available solutions are dependent upon the nature of the problem. We really need more information for an accurate recommendation.
@lynks god I love marquee, started using it in XSS PoC's just for the coolness
17:55
@Iszi I hope nobody gets me wrong, but can we assume that someone asking for security help on Security.SE is very likely not being attacked on the Google-subscribers front?
@Adnan Yup the question is way off or not disclosing enough information. They're supposedly DDoS-ing what IP? The one he's live-streaming from to YouTube? Also... Skype? Really? Using Skype isn't much different than DDoS-ing one self LOL. He doesn't need Skype to stream to YouTube, all he needs is a 'split cam' software, if he wants to stream to more than one client (i.e. to YouTube AND whoever he's in conference call with on Skype). No need to publish Skype address then.
@Adnan Any semi-decent split cam software has a capture option if he needs the stream from private Skype connection on YouTube as well
@Adnan Actually, I think that's the more likely front to be attacked. Why try to track down the origin of the stream (presumably private between the user and Google, as you've said) when the website hosting it is public?
@Iszi My idea is this: To really hurt the video session by attack that front, you either need to DDoS the subscribers connections (individually)
Or, Google itself
@Adnan Not all of Google. Just the bit hosting his stream.
00:00 - 18:0018:00 - 00:00

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